A Not-So-Pleasant Stroll On Huay Kaew Road

[Rancid]

OP, just a thought, but well you decided to settle in one of the worst traffic hellholes in Chiang Mai, no doubt due to the irresistible allure of some well stocked coffee shops, and yes the traffic is horrific as expected. Look, Thailand is like your Old West, not really like New York although there are some rude and objectionable people out there, it is a fluidic expression of rampant anarchy. It does have a flow and ebb, however you need to acclimatize to it. Walking isn't really recreational, many of us have tried, it is more like a survival course, be assured though you will get better with time assuming you don't become road kill to an errant Fortuner.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I have found that a lot of drivers will actually speed up if they think they can get through 'the gap' before you can cross the road.

You may think too highly of pedestrians: people speed up when the road is clear, period. Any pedestrians really don't affect road-clarity in this sense, so whether you're there or not, the road qualifies as clear: speed up.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

OP, just a thought, but well you decided to settle in one of the worst traffic hellholes in Chiang Mai, no doubt due to the irresistible allure of some well stocked coffee shops, and yes the traffic is horrific as expected.

Ain't that the truth. Very good points. It's really a lot more sensible to live inside the moat if you enjoy walking.

Airport Plaza is another "hot spot" for potential pedestrian accidents. One would have thought that an underpass or 2 would have been a logical inclusion in the development. I stopped this week for a couple of students who were trying to cross ,at the faded pedestrian crossing, on Hang Dong Road and the guy behind me was most irate. By stopping of course you run the risk of someone going straight up your rear end.TIT

I do mostly stop for pretty girls though.

Edited May 19, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[richard10365]

How did the pedestrian cross the road?

In the ambulance.

[nikster]

Didn't have an issue with traffic per se - just wait until there are no cars, then go, you really don't want to trust any CM driver to see you and then do the right thing and stop. Farangs have it a bit easier as most people know that they will just throw themselves into traffic and so may already be prepared to stop. Most, but not all.

But the one thing I had to learn is to look out in all directions. Even the unlikely ones - especially the unlikely ones. Just as you are waiting for traffic to subside, so is the motorcycle going the wrong way against the one way, or making a turn around all the blockades that are there to prevent just such a turn... no matter where you are, you have to do a 360 degree sweep...

[KeyserSoze01]

Crossing traffic on foot in Thailand reminds me of an old arcade game called Frogger. With about the same results.

[mccw]

I could understand if you have problems moving at pace or are half blind or something; but otherwise.....

Come on; seriously? You can't cross the street on your own or walk around the town without bumping in to things?

Its quite funny in a way. Would make a great sketch character. Like Mr Bean. Endless thai situation comedy senarios for a hapless Falang character.

But more seriously, this really does show how unaware western, and especially American, bred people are. Even in London I see tourists standing waiting for the little green man like zombies when there's plenty opportunity to cross- holding up people with a place to get to who are actually capable of judging speeds and distances, Bloody annoying.

[ozzieovaseas]

Maybe not usefull for Chaingmai, but a mate of mine from Oz used to cross busy Bangkok streets by simply walking across the road,stooping down a little, and extending his left palm at 90 degrees towards the oncoming traffic.

IMO it was reminiscient of a moove first originted by the "village people" in Y.M.C.A., yet my mate swears his first inspiration came from this fella:...

http://aso.gov.au/ti...e-dundee/clip1/

if your impatient skip to 1:40

BTW any referance to buffaloes is purely coincidental!

Edited May 19, 2012 by ozzieovaseas

[CMX]

Best advice I think is to look 360 degrees, plus up, down and around.

Being from N. America, where driving is done to the right side of the road, I had problems first time in London. Kept mumbling to myself to look the 'wrong' way (to my right) before stepping onto a road. Encountered a one-way street and as no cars were coming (from the right), nearly launched myself into one-way traffic. I was the problem.

In almost all aspects of life in a developing country, things are developing. To some Westerners, blame should attach to the native people. I don't see it that way - but still must look at it every-which-way plus. It's all an adventure. After surviving a good while as a pedestrian, rent a motorbike! Whee.

[manarak]

am I the only one to think OP's post is a little funny?

[orang37]

... snip ... a fluidic expression of rampant anarchy.

Elegantly limned !

Note: I can't help interpreting your use of the image of "flow and ebb" as "a flux of fatality/injury rate."

But, forgive me if I take a small exception to your statement: "be assured though you will get better with time." In that assumption: I see the great danger of developing an "inner sense" of confidence that will lead to the one fatal moment where you relax from being in the absolutely necessary state of paranoid hyper-vigilance that contributes to your survival, against odds that are heavily "stacked" against you (whether you are on foot, riding motosai, or driving any other vehicle; whether you are in, or on, any form of vehicle driven by anyone else).

~o:37;

[crusader79]

Being from N. America, where driving is done to the right side of the road, I had problems first time in London. Kept mumbling to myself to look the 'wrong' way (to my right) before stepping onto a road.

Of course the most famous near-fatal-victim of that mistake was Winston Churchill, in New York in 1931.

[orang37]

In the rare times where I ... on foot, on bicycle ... get "trapped" in a potentially hazardous situation ... usually through some slight misjudgment on my part of the speed of on-coming traffic ... or, some temporary relaxation of my normal state of hyper-vigilant traffic paranoia due to too much sun, or just plain stupidity ...

I have found that making the "wai" gesture to the oncoming traffic has, many times, caused drivers (motosai, songthaew, tuk-tuk, whatever's on wheels) to slow down and let me pass.

I have a hypothesis about this which I'll share with you: I believe that recognition of the "wai gesture" is so imprinted in the Thai psyche through repetition in the socialization process ... throughout the life-cycle ... that it is possible that it becomes "virtually instinctual," processed more quickly in the brain, and recognized at a further distance than other gestures.

This hypothesis is based, shakily, I admit, on some of the newer evidence in our understanding of the different "multiple mental organs" which have evolved in the human primate brain for the processing of visual stimuli, which we now know are routed to several different areas of the brain: for example: studies have clearly shown that visual recognition of scowling or smiling human faces is routed directly to the amygdala (almond shaped set of neurons in the medial temporal lobe) for "instant-on" reaction long before the rest of the visual inputs are, later, combined in the neo-cortex into the "perceived visually consistent" inner construction of a "seen world." In other words that aspect of facial recognition (as others, such a baby's clear ability to recognize who is, and who is not, its mother early on) ... is innate, hard-wired. [1]

Now the "shaky" in this hypothesis (which I hope immediately causes your kee-kwai-detector to register seismic tremors) is the assumption that certain important cultural gestures, socialized to continually, beginning in early childhood, and used everyday in both home, school, work, and every cultural setting ... can also ... due to "brain plasticity" ... gain some magnitude of increased neural processing time, through sheer repetition and reinforcement. There is clear evidence of the post-natal development of many apparently "instinctual" responses: Dr. Steven Pinker:

"First, children spontaneously become fearful of a standard list of stimuli in the preschool years (strangers, separation, loud noises, spiders, deep water, the dark, carnivorous animals, etc.)."

However, there is a "leap of faith" here between post-natal acquisition of instinctual reactions based on some unfolding evolutionary sequence based on age, and this generalization to a specific gesture !

And, an alternate "challenge" hypothesis ... on which the blade of Occam's Razor should be sharpened in this case ... is that, after all, the "wai" is a gesture of submission, and we, as primates, are also hard-wired to react and respond to gestures of submission, as well as displays of dominance. Other possible challenges could involve people walking with a cane as if they had a leg injury and could only move slowly.

Fortunately, double-blind studies, where matched sets of farangs (assigned at random to use a "wai" or some other gesture of submission) are sent out to negotiate Nimmanheiman, or other choice traffic-death-traps, until external observers verify they are in peril from traffic whilst in the middle-of, or partially-crossing, the road ... and then: an analysis of the number of fatalities and injuries resulting, analyzed, in each case, looking for the extent to which variance in results might be significantly correlated with use of the "wai" rather than the "other" gesture of submission ... cannot be done.

Finally, the "devil's advocate" challenge to this hypothesis would be to have another group of farangs use some widely-accepted aggressive or insulting gesture ("giving the finger" ?) in similar situations and compare results.

And, gosh, we'd have to control for age, size, sex, mode of dress, presence or absence of backpacks ?

The closest I have come to traffic death here was walking, on the green light, on the pedestrian crosswalk from the Maharaj/Suan Dok Hospital side of Thanon Suthep across to the other side to get in my car (at that time, several years ago, I actually drove a car): a songthaew ignored the red-light, and all the hospital related signage, and nearly ran me down, and I was in a weakened dazed state from chemotherapy and radiation. How I wished, at the time, I had a weapon handy !

But, gosh, I forgot to look right, and "wai: must be my fault, after all: this is a developing nation

So I use a "wai," but I am not at all clear that will work for you, and, if you are injured after use of a "wai," I cannot promise to attend your last rites, or bring flowers to your hospital: the bike trip to buy the flowers, and then to the memorial service, or hospital ... just too risky for me, sorry

Now let us leave these happy sunlit meadows of Thailand as peaceful Buddhist paradise over-flowing with the milk of loving-kindness (karuna metta), and imagine a scenario where you are trapped in a dangerous situation in traffic ... so: you "wai" to the on-coming traffic, and, their slowing down, to let you pass across, causes a severe traffic accident with injuries, and/or fatalities: in that case (but you are fine): in that scenario: where is the best cheeseburger in Chiang Mai ?

best, ~o:37;

[1] if you are actually interested in this research, you might start here:

from Google via Chrome release:

https://www.google.c...iw=1280&bih=681

from Google via IE9 release:

http://www.google.co...0.0..0.0...0.0.

from Bing:

http://www.bing.com/...c=0-0&sp=-1&sk=

Edited May 20, 2012 by orang37

[arunsakda]

I developed this habit on my first expat "posting". Japan, where drivers would sometimes speed up or sound horn when they saw me in the intersection. ( I am talking about crossing legally with a walk signal.) If possible cross street in parallel with an obvious National, using said person as a blocker. Female is best, the older the better. Drivers slow down every time and no loss of face.

I have tried it here and it works great. Nimman can be tough, Frogger does come to mind.

Edited May 20, 2012 by arunsakda

[kaptainrob]

I developed this habit on my first expat "posting". Japan, where drivers would sometimes speed up or sound horn when they saw me in the intersection. ( I am talking about crossing legally with a walk signal.) If possible cross street in parallel with an obvious National, using said person as a blocker. Female is best, the older the better. Drivers slow down every time and no loss of face.

I have tried it here and it works great. Nimman can be tough, Frogger does come to mind.

I also do this, usually in pursuit of a leggy young lady ... my wife, left behind on the sidewalk, calling "why you no wait for me?"

Having virtually circumnavigated Thailand in the last 12 months, Phuket drivers are probably about the worst. 1500 Bt about going rate for Thai's to 'buy' a licence in the south.

The best drivers however, are in Phang Nga province, and up around Ranong ... they're courteous and signal when safe, or not, to pass.

Isaan drivers are middle-of-the-road, literally!

[binjalin]

I have actually come across farang joggers! now that is madness!

[CMX]

And there you have it, OP!

Always move about in public here in a 'normal state of hyper-vigilant traffic paranoia' and cross streets in the company of native citizens, preferably hiding behind old aged women. Or, as anyone might have said with a little less ado, "Be careful out there."

[Ulysses G.]

Monks are always good to hide behind when crossing the street.

[Semper]

Monks are always good to hide behind when crossing the street.

Yes, but there's the risk they'll ask for a donation.

[ricklev]

Everything I don't like about the way Thais are socialized is revealed in their actions towards pedestrians.

I love them for lots of other things though.

Edited May 20, 2012 by ricklev

[binjalin]

Monks are always good to hide behind when crossing the street.

in the sense they believe in reincarnation and karma? and therefore do not care?

[mcgriffith]

Now let us leave these happy sunlit meadows of Thailand as peaceful Buddhist paradise over-flowing with the milk of loving-kindness (karuna metta), and imagine a scenario where you are trapped in a dangerous situation in traffic ... so: you "wai" to the on-coming traffic, and, their slowing down, to let you pass across, causes a severe traffic accident with injuries, and/or fatalities: in that case (but you are fine): in that scenario: where is the best cheeseburger in Chiang Mai ?

Good to see you back in fine fettle, orang37!

To answer the OP, the solution from my perspective is simple.

If you can't beat 'em, join them.

Buy a motorbike.

Even poor Burmese construction workers ride in the back of pickup trucks here. This is not a pedestrian friendly city, and probably never will be, judging by the city planning to date.

If too risk-averse to riding a scooter, or age or infirmity don't permit, resign yourself to being hunched over in the back of a songthaew/สองแถว, baking in a steel box, caught in interminable delays whilst breathing diesel fumes.

Don't mean to sound smug about this at all. You really are very limited not having some kind of vehicle here- this is a big city, and the scooters are hands down the best way to get around...that's why so many farang here eventually resign themselves to learning to ride.

If you are looking for a decent town, where one can stroll pleasantly, perhaps Chiang Rai would be a better option. Or Nan, or some other small provincial city.

[hellodolly]

All hog wash I walk all the time. Common sense and a little bit of patience will get you any where.

Truth be known while it may be harder to cross some streets than others they are in reality not that many of them compared to the ones that are easy to cross.

As a earlier poster said look all 360 degrees as they will ride their motor bikes on the side walk.

[uptheos]

All hog wash I walk all the time.

I thought you got Songtells everywhere.

[hellodolly]

All hog wash I walk all the time.

I thought you got Songtells everywhere.

Beyond two miles. How ever not being a cheap Charley I even use tuck tuck's.

[eek]

am I the only one to think OP's post is a little funny?

Im sure many find it comical. Personally i dont find risking life and limb just for a simple walk funny.

Sure, people can take songtaews, tuktuks, drive their own vehicles. I personally have my bum welded to my bike whenever i have the opportunity. But walking is good for you, and can be a real pleasure, instead its completely out of my list of things i like to do here, purely because of the layouts and conditions.

[Mickeem]

if you ever been to saigon you will thank god you are here in chiangmai.

Too right! I had to take a bike taxi once to get across to the other side of the road

As for CM drivers.. more affluence bigger cars and trucks = bigger egos and the attitude that pedestrians are lower than soi dogs

[WinnieTheKhwai]

All hog wash I walk all the time.

I thought you got Songtells everywhere.

Beyond two miles. How ever not being a cheap Charley I even use tuck tuck's.

You mean tick tacks? Come on, get creative in spelling all forms of public transport please.

Edited May 21, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[uptheos]

Beyond two miles. How ever not being a cheap Charley I even use tuck tuck's.

"the lady doth protest too much, methinks" Shakespeare's Hamlet, Act III, scene II

You seem to be overly anxious to demonstrate that you are not a 'Cheap Charlie' at every opportunity and that others are. Which leads me to conclude that you probably ARE extremely cheap or simply jumping onto the catch phrase bandwagon that others have used, in order to be seen as 'one of the lads'. Good luck.......especially with the songtels and tuck tuck's.

[kaptainrob]

It's just as dangerous in a car, tuk tuk or on a bike. I walk a lot, usually Suan Dok to KSK, sometimes to Thapae Gate and back, often on Suthep Road or Huay Kaew - both extremely hazardous for ALL.

One must be constantly aware of what's going on all around, whether on 2 legs or 4 wheels.