In Buddhism Many Descriptions Are What It'S Not Rather Than What It Is!

[rockyysdt]

As has been often said, experiences such as Äwakening" are beyond description and can only be understood through experience.

This is why such experiences and concepts are are described as what they are not rather than what they are.

The following description of Nirvana is no exception.

If lust anger and delusion are given up, man aims neither at his own ruin, nor at others ruin, nor at the ruin of both parties, and he experiences no mental pain or grief. This is Nirvana immediate, visible in this life, inviting, attractive, and comprehensible to the wise.

There is a realm, where there is neither the solid, nor the fluid, neither heat, nor motion, neither this world nor any other world, neither sun, nor moon.

This I call neither arising, nor passing away, neither standing still nor being born, nor dying, There is neither foothold, nor development, nor any basis. This is the end of suffering.

There is the unoriginated, uncreated, unformed. If there were not this unborn, this unoriginated, this uncreated, this unformed, escape from the world of the born, the originated, the created, the formed, would not be possible.

but since there is an unborn, unoriginated, uncreated, unformed, therefore escape is possIble from the world of the born, the orIginated, the created, and the formed.

Edited May 20, 2012 by rockyysdt

[fabianfred]

This is why Nibbana is called 'the deathless state' ...no more birth so no more death.

Its all about negating rather than creating. Destroying defilements, destroying ignorance, etc.

[IMA_FARANG]

That very topic....the "nature" of any awakening and Nibanna was discussed recently on another "Buddhist" forum.

Some posters argued for that "death and suffering is abolished" in Nibanna theory.

Personally....although I obviously can't say from any personal experience...I disagree with that idea.

My personal feeling is that death, Suffering, etc. are not "abolished" at that point or any point.

Niether (I know this will be controversial) is death and rebirth.

Suffering, pain, Death and Rebirth are all part of the cycle of life. At that point of awareness and awakening...having come to that point...I believe a person may come to the realisation that all life as a sentient being is simply a natural part of a cycle of birth, life and rebirth.

Ask yourself....did Buddha ever actually say you would be physically released (i.e. in body) from the cycle of birth. life, and rebirth...or did he REALLY say you would be freed from the pain of that cycle?

Therefore isn't that the same as knowing and accepting your place in the natural cycle of birth. suffering. death and rebirth?

And when you understand that fact...isn't that understanding or "awareness"....being in a state "free from the cycle of birth, suffering. death, and rebirth?

And couldn't you then call that state "Nibanna"?

Now I Know many people may disagree with my opinion.....so just let me say once again.....

This is ONLY MY PERSONAL OPINON....and others may surely disagree with my theory.

Obviously....I haven't got there yet (and I don't expect I will soon) so it's all conjecture on my part anyhow.

But it is an interesting thought, isn't it?

[rockyysdt]

My personal feeling is that death, Suffering, etc. are not "abolished" at that point or any point.

Neither (I know this will be controversial) is death and rebirth.

Suffering, pain, Death and Rebirth are all part of the cycle of life. At that point of awareness and awakening...having come to that point...I believe a person may come to the realisation that all life as a sentient being is simply a natural part of a cycle of birth, life and rebirth.

Ask yourself....did Buddha ever actually say you would be physically released (i.e. in body) from the cycle of birth. life, and rebirth...or did he REALLY say you would be freed from the pain of that cycle?

Therefore isn't that the same as knowing and accepting your place in the natural cycle of birth. suffering. death and rebirth?

And when you understand that fact...isn't that understanding or "awareness"....being in a state "free from the cycle of birth, suffering. death, and rebirth?

And couldn't you then call that state "Nibanna

Very interesting points IMA.

Coincidentally I was reading a Buddhist work which is related to your thoughts.

For me there were two outlooks.

Is it all about a state achieved from release from greed, aversion and delusion in this lifetime or does it include reunion with something beyond death?

This is what was written:

The Perfect One is free from any theory, for the Perfect One has understood what corporiality is, and how it arises, and passes away. He has understood what feeling is, and how it arises, and passes away. How has understood what perception is, how it arises, and how it passes away. He has understood what the mental formations, how they arise, and how the pass away. He has understood what consciousness is, how it arises, and passes away.

Therefore I say, the Perfect One has won complete deliverance through the extinction, fading away, disappearance, rejection and getting rid of all opinions and conjectures, of all inclination to the vain glory of "l" and "mine".

Whether Perfect Ones (Buddha) appear in the world, or whether perfect ones do not appear in the world, it still remains a firm condition, an immutable fact and fixed law, "that all formations are impermanent, that all formations are subject to suffering, that everything is without ëgo".

With this knowledge I admit thoughts of rebirth being moment to moment, and debate this with rebirth to many lives with release to Nirvana, but resolve to live without attachment to any mental formation.

I suspect attachment to mental formations will inhibit our progress.

Out of interest, what drives your belief?

Edited May 21, 2012 by rockyysdt