No Degree- Salary

[Cornflakes]

Hi teaching people,

I am trying to plan some sort of futre in Thailand and need some information on salary/income.

I don't have a degree I can feel the look on some faces reading this.

Well I just want to know do people that have no degree but do have some sort of TEFL qualification have any chance of earning more than 30-40-50,000 baht?

If I was working then weekend work would be an option and i'm not ruling it out. I'll put in the hard graft if it means earning more money.

Please don't say sod off look it up your self, I have read nearly 27 pages on the teaching froum and nearly every article-post-quote of ajarn.com too. I ahev done my homework on this but would just like to know off somebody that doesn't have a degree if it is possible to earn more than a crappy 30,000 baht.

Thanks for any reply it will be a big help and help me sleep better

Thanks guys 'n' gals

[Rumpole]

Basically it's up to you (as the Thais say). Depends on factors like how much you want to work, how well you market yourself and how popular you are etc. There is always an element of luck involved too, of course. It's certainly possible but really only in Bangkok, and you will probably have to put in a lot of hours. Either moonlighting and/or doing private tuition, plus travelling and preparation time. You may end up spending much of your life working.

Without a degree you most likely won't get a work permit either, so you will therefore have to factor in frequent visa/border runs. These might seem like a bit of an adventure the first couple of times you do them, but they get old, tedious and disruptive very quickly. They are also quite expensive in comparison to the salaries paid, particularly when you take into account lost earnings. Not really conducive to making much of a 'future' for yourself - but that is simply my opinion.

Edited January 2, 2006 by Rumpole

[Cornflakes]

Thanks Rumpole for the reply.

I know all about the visa runs and have visited Thailand a fair few times and stayed many months at a time, my gf's Thai and we used to have a business together on one of the southern islands.

Border runs have never been my idea of "fun" even the first time. The part I hate about travelling is the actual travelling as stupid as that sounds.

So your saying I can make that sort of money if I work my fingers to the bone, and stay up til all hours of the night creating lesson plans and anything else for the next dayss/weeks lessons?! AND working 6 days a week at that!

I would really love to come and live in Bkk as a teacher but I am being put off more and more (teaching that is). I know i'm not the only person that gets frustrated with not being able to land a job in Thailand, it seems vertually impossible.

30,000 baht just won't do it, remember I said I have a Thai gf not that she is a huge spender but even if she worked we still wouldn't be comfortable compared to what it was like when we had our own business going!

Looks like i've got some serious thinking ahead of me.

Thanks anyway for yuor reply

[Sporting Dog]

I think you'd have to work many hours to earn more than a 'crappy 30,000 baht' without a degree, and probably only in Bangkok.

I have a degree and a very good CELTA (both are REAL) and earn 30,000 working at an EP in the sticks (my first year) - I would expect to earn more next year but I can't see 50,000 baht in the near future. I work hard during the 40 hours or so I put in every week but I don't work weekends or do private tuition - I came to Thailand to live not work 24/7.

Of course 30,000 goes a lot further in the country than it does in the farang towns, there 's no way I could live in BKK, Chiang Mai or Phuket on that amount. But here we manage an OK/good life on that - never wanting for a beer or an eat-out.

Of course another option is to get a degree - and of course there is more than one way of doing that.

No degree means probably no WP, visa runs, extra cost, probably less money and always having the worry that you'll be found out and have to leave quickly. (and that does happen occasionally)

Also another thing is that teaching doesn't just happen - it's gonna take a while to get it sussed...and if you're working 6 days a week and having a crappy time teaching, you'll soon become bitter and twisted (for maybe 30,000 a month - the privates will take a while to organise).

Good luck!!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Thanks Rumpole for the reply.

I know all about the visa runs and have visited Thailand a fair few times and stayed many months at a time, my gf's Thai and we used to have a business together on one of the southern islands.

Border runs have never been my idea of "fun" even the first time. The part I hate about travelling is the actual travelling as stupid as that sounds.

So your saying I can make that sort of money if I work my fingers to the bone, and stay up til all hours of the night creating lesson plans and anything else for the next dayss/weeks lessons?!  AND working 6 days a week at that!

I would really love to come and live in Bkk as a teacher but I am being put off more and more (teaching that is). I know i'm not the only person that gets frustrated with not being able to land a job in Thailand, it seems vertually impossible. 

30,000 baht just won't do it, remember I said I have a Thai gf not that she is a huge spender but even if she worked we still wouldn't be comfortable compared to what it was like when we had our own business going! 

Looks like i've got some serious thinking ahead of me.

Thanks anyway for yuor reply

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Being able to spell virtually would be a big plus.

[cdnvic]

Thanks Rumpole for the reply.

I know all about the visa runs and have visited Thailand a fair few times and stayed many months at a time, my gf's Thai and we used to have a business together on one of the southern islands.

Border runs have never been my idea of "fun" even the first time. The part I hate about travelling is the actual travelling as stupid as that sounds.

So your saying I can make that sort of money if I work my fingers to the bone, and stay up til all hours of the night creating lesson plans and anything else for the next dayss/weeks lessons?!  AND working 6 days a week at that!

I would really love to come and live in Bkk as a teacher but I am being put off more and more (teaching that is). I know i'm not the only person that gets frustrated with not being able to land a job in Thailand, it seems vertually impossible. 

30,000 baht just won't do it, remember I said I have a Thai gf not that she is a huge spender but even if she worked we still wouldn't be comfortable compared to what it was like when we had our own business going! 

Looks like i've got some serious thinking ahead of me.

Thanks anyway for yuor reply

Being able to spell virtually would be a big plus.

[MikeRay]

we still wouldn't be comfortable compared to what it was like when we had our own business going

Let me guess that your business failt ?

[robitusson]

I think you'd have to work many hours to earn more than a 'crappy 30,000 baht' without a degree, and probably only in Bangkok.

I have a degree and a very good CELTA (both are REAL) and earn 30,000 working at an EP in the sticks (my first year) - I would expect to earn more next year but I can't see 50,000 baht in the near future. I work hard during the 40 hours or so I put in every week but I don't work weekends or do private tuition - I came to Thailand to live not work 24/7.

Of course 30,000 goes a lot further in the country than it does in the farang towns, there 's no way I could live in BKK, Chiang Mai or Phuket on that amount. But here we manage an OK/good life on that - never wanting for a beer or an eat-out.

Of course another option is to get a degree - and of course there is more than one way of doing that.

No degree means probably no WP, visa runs, extra cost, probably less money and always having the worry that you'll be found out and have to leave quickly. (and that does happen occasionally)

Also another thing is that teaching doesn't just happen - it's gonna take a while to get it sussed...and if you're working 6 days a week and having a crappy time teaching, you'll soon become bitter and twisted (for maybe 30,000 a month - the privates will take a while to organise).

Good luck!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've worked here as a teacher for 13 months now and met two teachers earning between 45 and 50 who don't have a degree or Celta. Admittedly these two didn't walk into it but had been around the scene a while but it's very plausible to earn as much as anyone else depending on who you meet and who you know. That's my two cents anyway.

[Sporting Dog]

In BKK? - how many hours are they doing?

Good luck to them - I'm sure there are few out there.

[robitusson]

In BKK? - how many hours are they doing?

Good luck to them - I'm sure there are few out there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Both in Bangkok. One guy is a DoS at a language school doing about 18 teaching hours, 45 work hours, the other guy is at a high school doing about 23 teaching hours, 45 working hours.

[markuk]

Thanks Rumpole for the reply.

I know all about the visa runs and have visited Thailand a fair few times and stayed many months at a time, my gf's Thai and we used to have a business together on one of the southern islands.

Border runs have never been my idea of "fun" even the first time. The part I hate about travelling is the actual travelling as stupid as that sounds.

So your saying I can make that sort of money if I work my fingers to the bone, and stay up til all hours of the night creating lesson plans and anything else for the next dayss/weeks lessons?!  AND working 6 days a week at that!

I would really love to come and live in Bkk as a teacher but I am being put off more and more (teaching that is). I know i'm not the only person that gets frustrated with not being able to land a job in Thailand, it seems vertually impossible. 

30,000 baht just won't do it, remember I said I have a Thai gf not that she is a huge spender but even if she worked we still wouldn't be comfortable compared to what it was like when we had our own business going! 

Looks like i've got some serious thinking ahead of me.

Thanks anyway for yuor reply

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Being able to spell virtually would be a big plus.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats what sepell checkers are for!!

[Ijustwannateach]

OP now has two threads where he sums up what he says he already knows about TEFL here and seems to be asking for warm fuzzies and pats on the back and soft murmurings of "oh, it's not so."

Well, it is so. By your own statement of your qualifications and values, it probably isn't worth it for you to come here, and at best will be a difficult and adventurous struggle- no serious "future." Better for you to stay home, because teaching in Thailand is no situation for the faint-hearted. *Most* of the time, those with poor or fake qualifications and no work ethic will fail here. It's not easy.

"Steven"

[Rumpole]

^ Quite agree. And even for those with qualifications and experience it can be a struggle. If you want to teach, rather than just remain in Thailand, there are better options elsewhere in Asia. If you 'teach' simply as a means of staying in Thailand, you will have to put up with the many negative aspects which that entails.

[Cornflakes]

Thanks for the replies, I can't believe some people will even bother wasting their time posting on here just to point out that I spelt something wrong.

As for looking for a pat on the back? Well i'll just let you think whatever it is you want to think.

Thanks for the serious and helpful replies, from those that bothered to try and help and, that noticed that I am only looking for advice.

It seems there really isn't much point in coming over to teach for such little money, it wouldn't get me anywhere.

I suppose I would get ratty with people too if I had gone to uni for alot of years and studied hard to get a degree and there were certain people about that arn't really interested in teaching but just wanting to stay in Thailand.

And to whoever asked, yeah my business did fail, I suppose your happy to hear about that? But let's just say you learn from your mistakes.

Some people on this site have got a real funny attitude towards other people trying to make a living in Thailand. An HONEST living.

Some guys here jump the gun quite quickly accusing others of just wanting to stay in Thailand, are these same people really telling me while they were doing their degrees that they were seriously thinknig of coming to Thailand to live and teach for 30,000-50,000 baht a month?, I really don't think so. Was it worth all the effort getting that degree for 30,000 baht per month?

If their so high and mighty with their degrees how about doing something with that degree in the West? How does having a degree in lets say history, or even science having ANYTHING to do with teaching Englsih in Bkk, sure it means you studied hard, got your qualification but it doesn't mean that you can be a good teacher at all.

So guys stone me down which I know you will all do in your replies,correct my spelling and grammar mistakes.

I'm just saying what I think like most of you guys seem to do.

[britmaveric]

Some people on this site have got a real funny attitude towards other people trying to make a living in Thailand. An HONEST living.

Hardly a honest living if you aren't qualified and without work permit!!

Edited January 3, 2006 by britmaveric

[Cornflakes]

By what I have read on this site and others most of the people are working illegally, degree or no degree, it seems very difficult to get a wp unless the school goes out of their way to do it for you.

I meant honest in the fact that I wouldn't go down to KSR and buy myself a fake degree or whatever other qualifications they sell and show it off to all the schools preteding it was achieved by hardwork.

Having a wp seems to restrict people anyway as it legally only lets them work for the school that issued them with it?!

So as I have written for you, you can see what I meant by "honest" now?!

[phuketsiam]

why not look for something thats not teaching, there are other opportunities in Thailand, few and far between I admit, but teaching must be one of the lowest paid ones, if it more money you want try another avenue

[Cornflakes]

True, teaching does sound like the worst paid job going in Thailand, unless you get a job in a international university or on the same lines as that.

I have done alot of searching over the past few years and have found that there arn't many jobs going for us falang in Thailand.

Passing out flyers on the beach? No Thanks , teaching= not enough money even for the highest of qualifications.

Good thing is, i'm young I got alot of time to work at it. I could still go to uni and at the end of it try and go to Thailand and look for a higher paying job, but as what?

At this point in time i'm a chef in the UK, obviously I would like to continue with that but in Thailand I think I have no chnace, unless I open my own resteraunt. But like most here NO CASH to do that!

I'm sure i'll figure something out, i'm certainly starting to change my mind about living off 30,000 baht per month, my gf thinks that would be fine, I think she needs to take off those rose tinted glasses she seems to be wearing.

[britmaveric]

Thailand with no dosh = hel_l

[Cornflakes]

True, Thailand is a bad place to be stuck with no cash.

I have been there with alot of money and I have been there while having to watch every single baht spent while stuck in a very toursitic area. NIGHTMARE. Is the word.

[steveromagnino]

So as I have written for you, you can see what I meant by "honest" now?!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hmmmmm..... interesting definition.?!

I think the best idea is to avoid teaching english and get some skills that are required here. Or better still, persue a job you enjoy (e.g. chefing) and get to a level where you are good enough to work wherever you want.

I've met enough foreign chefs and restuarant managers here to know that this is a profession opportunity even though there are tons of locals also able to cook.

I know a few people who love to teach. They could work anywhere for any money, and be happy. If you aren't of that mindset, it will probably drive you nuts. A few of my foreign friends (and one 1/2 Thai) teach english without degrees; you can basically watch them turn from a normal person, into a really negative cynic within months; mostly because of the people they are working with. The higher group with the degrees and so on tend to get life a bit better.

Having a degree doesn't mean you will be a good teacher. However, like most other things such as references and work history, it helps build a picture of character; a person with a degree has gone through and studied something and finished it. They have learned to think for themselves (hopefully) in a way many people without a degree have not. Can you be smart without a degree? Absolutely. Can you be stupid with a degree? Most certainly.

But for any organisation, they have many applicants to consider for a job, so easiest way to screen is to start looking for basic character attributes; that's why you need a degree (or similar). System is far from perfect, and as they say, those who can't do teach - can be true sometimes. HOwever, learning something, anything, to a higher level teaches a person at least something about themselves and hopefully how to learn and how to teach.

When you have a degree, then you can spout on about how useless it is or isn't for teaching

[Cornflakes]

Intersting AND helpful.

Seems to be rare on this site.

I didn't mean to sound like I was saying having a degree is useless, just trying to get my point across.

Being a chef is definetly something I like and enjoy doing, but I think it would be very very hard to land a job doing this in Thailand, what about "takeing a job away from a thai" that people always go on about. Isn't it doing exactly that?

Who do the people work for?Or what type of places?,(As Chefs I mean)

What type of salary?

Obviously it would make much more sense for me to stick to what I know best but I have always thought that the only jobs in Thailand that pay semi decent, or quite well are teaching Englsih or working with computers. O

[Jaffy]

I agree with the last poster - a degree in bio-chemistry is hardly required to teach English to 6 year olds! However, a teaching certificate, I feel is vital.

let's be real here cornflake....

It's hardly honest to masquerade as somone you're not!

[Cornflakes]

I wasn't even thinknig about teaching without a TEFL or CELTA certificate.

Imagine getting up in front of a class without having done ANY experince even if it is only from the TEFL course, at least it is some practice. I know not enhough to make you a good teacher but maybe at least enough to give someone enough confidence to get up in front of the class and attempt to teach

I am not trying to masquerade as anything, i've not even left the Uk yet. Keep your hat on.

[Jaffy]

I wasn't even thinknig about teaching without a TEFL or CELTA certificate.

Imagine getting up in front of a class without having done ANY experince

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Many do !!!!!!!!!!

But it's hardly fair on the students or on other teachers for that matter....

[johnnyk]

Who do the people work for?Or what type of places?,(As Chefs I mean)

What type of salary?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Proper chefs work in international hotels or own/partner their own restos.

They have international experience and can manage staff/budget/logistics/planning etc.

They don't work for 30K baht a month, more like 150K+

Cooks can be hired and taught and that's the area where only Thais will be hired.

Edited January 3, 2006 by johnnyk

[BalthazarBeefheart]

Intersting AND helpful.

Seems to be rare on this site.

I didn't mean to sound like I was saying having a degree is useless, just trying to get my point across.

Being a chef is definetly something I like and enjoy doing, but I think it would be very very hard to land a job doing this in Thailand, what about "takeing a job away from a thai" that people always go on about. Isn't it doing exactly that?

Who do the people work for?Or what type of places?,(As Chefs I mean)

What type of salary?

Obviously it would make much more sense for me to stick to what I know best but I have always thought that the only jobs in Thailand that pay semi decent, or quite well are teaching Englsih or working with computers. O

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sure you'd qualify as a breakfast chef - Seriously do yourself a favour mate - as someone told me a long time ago learn to teach English 'cos you want to teach English not 'cos you want to come to Thailand. My own advice would be get some dosh behind yourself by working wherever you are in farangland and then take your time over choices when you get here. Chill on Chang !

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Intersting AND helpful.

Seems to be rare on this site.

I didn't mean to sound like I was saying having a degree is useless, just trying to get my point across.

Being a chef is definetly something I like and enjoy doing, but I think it would be very very hard to land a job doing this in Thailand, what about "takeing a job away from a thai" that people always go on about. Isn't it doing exactly that?

Who do the people work for?Or what type of places?,(As Chefs I mean)

What type of salary?

Obviously it would make much more sense for me to stick to what I know best but I have always thought that the only jobs in Thailand that pay semi decent, or quite well are teaching Englsih or working with computers. O

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sure you'd qualify as a breakfast chef - Seriously do yourself a favour mate - as someone told me a long time ago learn to teach English 'cos you want to teach English not 'cos you want to come to Thailand. My own advice would be get some dosh behind yourself by working wherever you are in farangland and then take your time over choices when you get here. Chill on Chang !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sound advice

[Cornflakes]

Thanks for the advice,

I've been racking my brains far too much and it is only stressing me out and not doing any good atall.

I suppose I just need to gather my thoughts and try and figure out what I really need to/should do with my life.

Working and saving my money is defiently good advice, Thailand will be the place a live someday but i'm rushing too much and should take my time, that is something I have alot of. I'm just a pup when it comes to the Thai game.

I have my whole life to figure something out!

Thanks for the tips and advice...

[Jersey_UK]

Hi Cornflakes,

I have never been an "English Teacher" in Thailand nor have been even living in Thailand, let alone tried to make any money here - the most I can ever do is 6 months at a time before my brain starts turning to mush - admittedly a lot of Alcohol involved.

I have no ambition to move to the LOS forever (got that out of my system long ago).

FWIW (given the above - possibly not much!) my experiance of "Teaching English" is limited to helping the odd (sometimes very odd!) BarGirl, from writing ABC's to Gals who were disturbingly well advanced. (I should add that not all of these BG's were "g/f's" - more often than not it was just something to do whilst whiling (sp?!) away the afternoon getting tanked. And pre-internet, also reading and writing the odd Mr Farang letter. Beleive it or not their was a time when the BG's either could not or would not speak English as it was considered as a sure sign that they "have customer too mutt" - but I digress here _

I agree 100% with your idea that you get some TEFL (or whatever) training as it amazingly hard and frustrating to find a way of explaining stuff which is SOOOOOOO obvious........especially to folk who cannot speak English I am sure they must teach you the "tricks of the trade" (whether you remember them or can use them is another matter). I would look at it as like having to avoid "reinventing the wheel". They also I beleive usually throw in some students as Guinea Pigs to practice on. :

You are already "qualified" to teach English in Thailand as you are a Farang who speaks English. Being white is best. (Before anyone flames me, I do not make the rules in the LOS).

APART from the work permit issue I would say that a Degree is not actually neccessary to teach English as a Foreign Language, just that someone has some apptitude for it and gets at least some enjoyment. As I think you already suggested a Degree in "Theory of Dance" coupled with 3 years of daytime TV is not by itself going make you a Teacher of English. I stand to be corrected here, but I do not believe that their are 3 or 4 year Degrees offered in the UK "Teaching English as a Foreign language".

Not having a Degree does not automatically mean you do not have a noodle and are not capable of a job (ok, their are of course plenty of exceptions!) - having a Degree just means that you are probably more likely to be capable of learning a new job - but IME this is by no means a given. (obviously if are applying to be a Nuclear Physicist, perhaps a Degree in a relevent subject would be more useful than "O" level woodwork - showing my age here!).

IME folk without degrees CAN do jobs which require thinking

I would say that running a business, even one that failed, "qualifies" (LOL) you to do many many things - and the fact that you tried, already tells me a lot.

Just a thought, but what about teaching English in Thailand and settling for the 25 / 30k a month, but ONLY for 6 months - perhaps topped up with some savings from back home - even if it involves you having to work back in farangland for a while.

The reason I say "settling" for the 25k / 30k a month is that to earn more by teaching English sounds like way too much hard work for the rewards on offer - unless you get lucky (which you may do).

Anyway, it sounds like (and odds are) that Teaching English in the LOS will be a stop gap for you, but whilst you are teaching you can get a grip with learning both the Thai language (and reading and writing?!), as well as just getting used to the place as somewhere to do business in 24/7 - you can of course use the time to hunt out any other business opportunities, either now or for much later.

You may think with your cooking background and previous experiance of running a Business that running a restaurant in Thailand (or something food based) is what you want to do and think you could have a stab at. In which case if you can't get a job doing that (under the Thais only rules) BUY a business, even if you have to come back to Farangland to work to save the money / take a loan out for a "car".

Then again, I have met a few Chefs who f#cking hated the job and would do just about anything else!

Meant to be a bit of encouragemnt for OP rather than a dig at English Teachers or those with Degrees. Honest