Bangkok-Chiang Mai High Speed Rail Ready By 2018: Transport Ministry

[steenasger]

Already 2-3 years ago the previous government anounced a similar feasibility study of the BKK-CM speed train. Why another study? Wonder if that have a greater chance of success.

[Thai at Heart]

I think you are missing the point here. The reason that the Chinese are interested is that they eventually want to link up Chiang Mai with their Kunming Province and open a rail route for exporting their products through Indochina. A similar project is being thought out along the Ho Chi Minh Trail through Cambodia, also pioneered by China. So, as long as China is involved, this rail project is quite feasible provided China is heavily involved. And if it does go ahead it would be the catalyst to finally modernise the Thai Rail Network that has been held back due to the use of the metre gauge...Let us hope that it doesn't end up as being a politically motivated project that ends up nowhere.

The lines in Chiangmai/North don't even reach the border. The plan from the Chinese side is to link into Nongkhai via Laos, through to Bangkok but that all seems to have gone very quiet as a plan recently. However, with Burma opening up, I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese don't just take their goods to port in Burma.

[w11guy]

Doesn't a feasibility study try to determine WHETHER the project is feasible? Perhaps announcing the completion date is a little premature.

Some of the land in the railway corridors may need to be resumed, I guess... and equipment purchased... that's a lot of concrete and rails... 6 years, huh? ... hmmmmm

It's possible to be confident of the completion date before a full feasibility study has taken place. The time to build is a known factor and expected problems can be taken into account. The feasibility study will sort out any issues. But there's no reason that this can't be completed by 2018. Building a railway is quite straightforward.

[w11guy]

It took 3 years to widen and pave 4km of Thappraya Road between Pattaya and Jomtien. How in the world will this ever happen in 6 years?

Because a Chinese company s building it and they know how to get things done very quickly.

[Reasonableman]

Doesn't a feasibility study try to determine WHETHER the project is feasible? Perhaps announcing the completion date is a little premature.

Some of the land in the railway corridors may need to be resumed, I guess... and equipment purchased... that's a lot of concrete and rails... 6 years, huh? ... hmmmmm

It's possible to be confident of the completion date before a full feasibility study has taken place. The time to build is a known factor and expected problems can be taken into account. The feasibility study will sort out any issues. But there's no reason that this can't be completed by 2018. Building a railway is quite straightforward.

No reason, none at all, clearly... yes, very straightforward... thanks for the reassurance...

[w11guy]

Better keep all the buffaloes and trucks that are certain they can beat the train off the tracks then!

High speed rail systems are completely fenced off.

[mickjn]

It will be ready and it will be great.Invest any spare money you have now

[Thai at Heart]

Better keep all the buffaloes and trucks that are certain they can beat the train off the tracks then!

High speed rail systems are completely fenced off.

I hope they raise it on pillars, otherwise, there would be a bloody great flood levy running the length of the country.

[Fgis]

They were supposed to launch train to UDON THANI and CHINA in 2017, they forgot ?

[garrya]

How long did the Channel Tunnel take? (I forget). (Ok, going under the sea is a bit different than this route.)

But what would scare me is the adequacy of the rail bed to take the weight of a high-speed train, not to mention the possibility of frequent floods. No way 6 years is adequate.

Why the immediate knee-jerk mention of Shinawatra. Bkk and CM are Thailand's two biggest cities...perfectly logical to connect those two cities, like NY to Boston, or London to Brum or Paris to Lyon etc

CM is only the 8th largest city in Thailand.

Yes, and CM with its agglomeration is the second.

Nope

http://th.wikipedia....ะชาà¸à¸£

• Nakhon Ratchasima 2,582,089
  
• Ubon Ratchathani 1,813,088
  
• Khon Kaen 1,767,601
  
• Chiang Mai 1,640,479
  
• Buri Ram 1,553,765
  
• Udon Thani 1,544,786
  
• Nakhon Si Thammarat 1,522,561
  
• Si Sa Ket 1,452,471
  
• Surin 1,381,761
  
• Songkhla 1,357,023
  
• Chon Buri 1,316,293
  
• Roi Et 1,309,708
  
• Chiang Rai 1,198,218
  
• Samut Prakan 1,185,180
  
• Chaiyaphum 1,127,423
  

With agglomerations

Ohh man, ,

You have supplied the population of the provinces sponsored by Wikipedia. Just to make it clear, I said "agglomeration", not province.

Just to make it clear. You should have read your wikipedia more carefully, especially the first few paragraphs of the Chiang Mai page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Mai

Officially, Chiang Mai covers Mueang Chiang Mai as a district, but in the reality, it sprawls into a several neighbouring districts.

Agglomeration and province are not the same terminology.

So, i am still right, Chiang Mai is the second in terms of agglomeration and 6th most-populous city, 5th in the ranking of provinces.

[StefanBBK]

Nice to have a government of action and not only words.

300 baht...tablets...high-speed rail...beats hot air balloons, submarines & wars with our neighbours!

If they don't manage (wrong word) get their act together with the flood situation, you could have a high-speed submarine passing through Singburi/Lopburi during the rainy season on it's way north/south!

I am laying under the table, laughing ! You are so right.

Seriously, I would be very apprehensive taking such train here. The thought is scary.

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect App

[MiguelDelgado]

Bullshit, nothing will happen at all, the usual bunch of liars at the Transport Ministry.

Since I came to Thailand I have been hearing every 3-4 years some government saying they will upgrade the train system in Thailand, sometimes they say that they will do an extension to Chiang Rai, but never ever anything happened apart of the Sprinter Diesel Railcar. Nothing at all in 30 years! No sorry, of course every time an expensive feasibility study is made and somebody getting nice percentages for it.

Unfortunately the English Newspapers in Thailand became in the last year so bad so we can't expect them doing a nice feature of the total amount of feasibility studies during the last 30 years.

Nothing will every happen in Thailand regarding train upgrading. And if it does it will be a fiasko the same as Thaksin gave us with the Suwannaphoum airport, doesn't look like his new government is capable of giving a better performance.

[Thai at Heart]

Ohh man, ,

You have supplied the population of the provinces sponsored by Wikipedia. Just to make it clear, I said "agglomeration", not province.

Just to make it clear. You should have read your wikipedia more carefully, especially the first few paragraphs of the Chiang Mai page.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Chiang_Mai

Officially, Chiang Mai covers Mueang Chiang Mai as a district, but in the reality, it sprawls into a several neighbouring districts.

Agglomeration and province are not the same terminology.

So, i am still right, Chiang Mai is the second in terms of agglomeration and 6th most-populous city, 5th in the ranking of provinces.

I know the problems, populations when measured with umphurs, tessabans are a mess in Thailand.

I found this one, but even this doesn't seem completely correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metropolitan_areas_in_Thailand_by_population

1 Bangkok Metropolitan Region Bangkok, Nonthaburi, Samut Prakan,Pathum Thani, Samut Sakhon, Nakhon Pathom 6,355,144 11,971,000 7,761.50 1,315.27 2 Chiang Mai Metropolitan Area Mueang Chiang Mai, Mueang Lamphun, Lamphun Province, San Sai,Mae Rim, San Pa Tong, Saraphi, San Kam Phaeng, Hang Dong, Doi Saket,Ban Thi, Lamphun Province 369,460 1,099,473 2,905.13 378.46 3 Pattaya-Chonburi Metropolitan Area Mueang Chonburi, Bang Lamung, Si Racha, Sattahip, Ban Bueng 107,289 1,183,604 3,215.25 368.12 4 Greater Hatyai-Songkhla Metropolitan Area Hat Yai, Kho Hong, Khuan Lang, Khlong Hae, Ban Phru, Phatong,Songkhla, Khao Rup Chang, Sadao, Padang Besar, Phang La, Prik, Singha Nakhon 438,685 899,985 3,397.23 285.99 5 Nakhon Ratchasima Metropolitan Area Nakhon Ratchasima, Khok Sung, Cho Ho, Paru Yai, Hua Thale, Nong Phai Lom, Pho Klang, Khok Kruat, Nong Khai Nam, Kud Chik, and Kham Thale So. 142,645(2010)^[1] 439,546 767.98 572

Can't copy the numbers here because of limits. These numbers are equally screwy too. Lamphun Province, measured inside Metropolitan Chiangmai, but only 142k in "downtown" Khorat?

The original discussion was about whether or not Isaan deserves a rail link too, and in my opinion it does, Isaan has a hell of a lot of people, and a hell of a lot of bulk goods that need to be shipped to port.

[seminomadic]

Why the immediate knee-jerk mention of Shinawatra. Bkk and CM are Thailand's two biggest cities...perfectly logical to connect those two cities, like NY to Boston, or London to Brum or Paris to Lyon etc

RIGHT. Because, as with NY/BOS or LON/PAR, there is parity in terms of manifold industries being shared between those cities, since Chiang Mai offers the world tourism, of course, and..... and they've got....

wait a sec, I'll think of it. What else is it they do up there? I know there's something else they're known for besides tourism...

oh yeah... CERAMICS!!

I can hear the conversations precipitating the sales of thousands of high-speed ticket purchases now....

BANGKOKIAN WIFE: You know what? I think we need a new vase in that corner.

BANGKOKIAN HUSBAND: So I guess that means you want to go to JJ then.

BANGKOKIAN WIFE: Too hot there.

BANGKOKIAN HUSBAND: Ok...... IKEA or a mall then?

BANGKOKIAN WIFE: Nah nah nah. I'm thinking of something unique, something that doesn't say 'we bought this in Bangkok'. Something made in a place where you can't get anything like it anywhere else....where the export of their crafts to other provinces is forbidden. I'm thinking CHIANG MAI.

BANGKOKIAN HUSBAND: Wait, you want to go all the way up to Chiang Mai for some house furnishings?

BANGKOKIAN WIFE: Yep. And I want to get there <deleted> TODAY.

And as for that backpacker market, a high-speed train can't come soon enough. Overnight trains with sleeper berths are so passé.

[MrBrad]

I think you are missing the point here. The reason that the Chinese are interested is that they eventually want to link up Chiang Mai with their Kunming Province and open a rail route for exporting their products through Indochina. A similar project is being thought out along the Ho Chi Minh Trail through Cambodia, also pioneered by China. So, as long as China is involved, this rail project is quite feasible provided China is heavily involved. And if it does go ahead it would be the catalyst to finally modernise the Thai Rail Network that has been held back due to the use of the metre gauge...Let us hope that it doesn't end up as being a politically motivated project that ends up nowhere.

The Chinese have money to burn, and they're investing it worldwide, whether in Nigeria, Sudan, and other African countries, the Middle East, Latin America, or Southeast Asia. Actually, they're buying up many landmark buildings and making other investments in the USA also.

If, as it sounds, they are wanting to support a high-speed rail network in Thailand and neighboring countries, they will make it happen on or close to on schedule. They are looking out for themselves as well as their children's future. No doubt they've already convinced (wink, wink) those in the ivory towers in Bangkok that this is feasible and extremely beneficial for Thailand's future as well. Which it is.

[Soi Sauce]

How long did it take to complete the few KMs from On Nut to Baring on the BTS?

6 years, my arse!

[Woodcaulk]

The feasibility study of the project will take a year

Thats a study that could be done in less than 30 seconds

[rubl]

Up to a point this seems a logical furthering of the revised development plan announced in August, 2011. At that time not many details, no completion dates. Now one (small) step further

http://www.thaivisa....y/#entry4650559

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/23/uk-thailand-rail-idUSLNE77M04B20110823

Edited May 22, 2012 by rubl

[chiangmaicharlies]

[media=]

[/media]

That was an interesting video you posted; I hadn't seen it before. Thanks

[UbonOz]

Both Korea and Taiwan have these bullet trains that are relatively new and Japan has had theirs for a long time. Why not consult with them on how to do it right.

Korea,Taiwan and Japan don't do "Tea Money".

Edited May 22, 2012 by UbonOz

[unanimosity]

Quote

Under a total budget of 983.47 billion baht, the Transport Ministry has plans to construct 5 high-speed rail routes, including Bangkok-Chiang Mai, Bangkok-Nong Khai, Bangkok-Ubon Ratchathani, Bangkok-Rayong, and Bangkok-Padang Besar.

Let's see, 30% of 983,470,000,000 baht is a 295,041,000,000 baht windfall for somebody in the revenue stream. Just to keep it in perspective, the skim in USD is $9,517,451,612.90

[EyesWideOpen]

Here we go with a bunch of stupid ignorant negative comments about something positive the Thais are trying to do to improve conditions. Go home.

Pity they couldn't choose a different project partner, do some research on China's plagued system, you'll be amazed at your findings.

I agree, the corruption in China's rail system is simply beyond belief.

I am impressed by the corruption number of 2.8 billion dollars.... :-)

I am sure the Thais can hardly wait for the Chinese to show up and start throwing money around. Regarding being negative on Thailand, I just find it hard to believe that a country that cannot stop jet ski scams , is now going to build a high speed rail project....

From Wikipedia......

Zhang Shuguang (张曙光) (born December 1956) born in Shanghai, whose ancestors are native of Liyang, Jiangsu, China. Graduated from Lanzhou Railway University in 1982, he was deputy chief engineer of Ministry of Railways and the deputy chief designer of the Chinese high-speed railway.[1]

He has since been sacked for corruption in the high speed rail projects[2] According to New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof, Zhang is estimated to have misappropriated to his personal overseas accounts the equivalent of $2.8 billion.......

Edited May 22, 2012 by EyesWideOpen

[saroq]

Why just Chiang Mai why not go up a few more miles to Chiang Rai too, whilst I would welcome a faster service, it seems like a certain family are doing the best they can to benefit their own home town.

True but it does make sense to open up that end of the country to future links with China. Personally I don't know why anyone would take a train, high speed or not, rather than fly. Flights are not expensive and they're a lot faster.

[unanimosity]

Why the immediate knee-jerk mention of Shinawatra. Bkk and CM are Thailand's two biggest cities...perfectly logical to connect those two cities, like NY to Boston, or London to Brum or Paris to Lyon etc

RIGHT. Because, as with NY/BOS or LON/PAR, there is parity in terms of manifold industries being shared between those cities, since Chiang Mai offers the world tourism, of course, and..... and they've got....

wait a sec, I'll think of it. What else is it they do up there? I know there's something else they're known for besides tourism...

oh yeah... CERAMICS!!

I can hear the conversations precipitating the sales of thousands of high-speed ticket purchases now....

BANGKOKIAN WIFE: You know what? I think we need a new vase in that corner.

BANGKOKIAN HUSBAND: So I guess that means you want to go to JJ then.

BANGKOKIAN WIFE: Too hot there.

BANGKOKIAN HUSBAND: Ok...... IKEA or a mall then?

BANGKOKIAN WIFE: Nah nah nah. I'm thinking of something unique, something that doesn't say 'we bought this in Bangkok'. Something made in a place where you can't get anything like it anywhere else....where the export of their crafts to other provinces is forbidden. I'm thinking CHIANG MAI.

BANGKOKIAN HUSBAND: Wait, you want to go all the way up to Chiang Mai for some house furnishings?

BANGKOKIAN WIFE: Yep. And I want to get there <deleted> TODAY.

And as for that backpacker market, a high-speed train can't come soon enough. Overnight trains with sleeper berths are so passé.

Ceramics??? You can get ceramics anywhere.

They have MASSAGE in Chiang Mai, yessiree they do.

[sirchai]

Chinese and Polish "high speed trains......

[bigbamboo]

Both Korea and Taiwan have these bullet trains that are relatively new and Japan has had theirs for a long time. Why not consult with them on how to do it right.

because the Thai (government, industry, trade) have their blood, heart, and money lines intermingled with the Chinese, not with Korea or Japan

And Japanese building railways in Thailand has never been popular.

[ginjag]

I notice, the much vaunted line going to Nongkhai to allow good and passenger trains to pass from China all the way to Singapore is mentioned, but only in passing. With the numerous factories moving to the Northeast having started to relocate out of the flood areas, it would be a godsend to have a decent rail line up there.

Add in the increasing costs of logistics with oil prices surely this would be of massive benefit to the country in terms of getting bulk and other goods to the ports for export? I don't begrudge Chiangmai a decent rail link, 14 hours overnight is a joke in this day and age.

I have mentioned this a million times - incorporating the next 3 biggest cities+Nong Khai-border runs--Vientienne--and up to China. Who the hell is plugging this Chiang Mai obsession-The P.M. family ??? home for them. Half of Thailand live in Issan-ask Thaksin, he did his homework.

Less then a third lives in Isan. And why do you think a BKK - Nong Khai express train service is rewarding to an Ubon or Sisaket etc resident??

They have to start off with something.

Rubbish-re population pull the other one. And I am not stupid enough to think you can fan a high speed train to ALL ciies in Issan, was pointing out the facts of cities en route to Vientienne. Thinking not just passengers but freight, to these next biggest cities in Thailand. Not in a big flood belt. Industry is moving-eastern seaboard--or North east. Get my drift.

[retiringinthailand]

Never mind the technical feasibility what about the economic feasibility?

How muchwill the tickets cost and how many Thais will be able or willing to fork out huge sums of money to buy one?

How many people per day actually want to make these journeys?

Have the Thais been polled to ask if they this is needed and how much use they would make of it?

Why no mention of these basic questions?

[pomchop]

When they announced the sky train there were lots of people who scoffed at the idea that it would happen but it did.

When they announced the MRT there were lots of people who scoffed at the idea that it would happen but it did.

And I believe both projects were completed failry close to the original time table.

[rotary]

I will believe it when it sucks my hat off as it passes by me, otherwise it could be like 3G.............................