Wife Told Lies And Abducted Our Son

[cjchaos]

Hi All,

I hope somebody can help me.

My wife told me her father was injured badly in a road accident and was in ICU.

I, like a good husband cared about her feelings and booked for us to go see him as she was acting to be very worried.

It cost around £1500 airfair for all of us.

My son is nearly 1 years old.

When we got there she said her dad got out of hospital that same day.

He didn't look injured, he looked like a fat man sitting in his underpants all day drinking beer.

I thought what the ....... I asked her where is he injured? she said everywhere...

Well... I'm not a doctor but I thought he would have some bruising atleast... if he was in ICU.

On the way back, just before going to the airport, my wife said she needed to go Toilet.

I got a phone call 10 minutes later from her and she said she not going to come back to UK with me and she ran off with our son.

It looks like she lied about her father so she could take our son out from UK.

Is this fraud that she told lies to get him out the country? I don't know.... maybe she commited a crime in UK?

The problem is now, Thailand are not a member of the hague convension so I cannot enforce that she comitted child abduction under wrongful retention.

Most developed contries see it as child abduction if the child is taken on holiday by a parent, as they see the childs home as the country the child was living in immediatly before holiday.

I spoke to a Thai Lawyor and he believes I can regain custody through the courts.

I am wondering, will the courts side with me as she I am a victim?

Or will they side with the mother? of course our son has to live in UK or Thailand but I want to get him back here in UK.

Does anybody have any helpful advice and think I can win him back in a Thai Court?

[Tywais]

There is some information at the UK Embassy website on this - http://ukinthailand.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/when-things-go-wrong/child-abduction

[Chivas]

This is no time to worry about hurting your feelings.......

You have one chance and that is no chance UNLESS you are minted and can afford private investigators to find her. I'm running against a very similar position myself and despite trying to appear upbeat I realistically know that I will never see my own wife and child again....

No point sugar coating it........She hasn't committed fraud in any country in the world. You went of your own free will and you were rammed.

Sorry to be blunt but have come to the conclusion that I am better off and sooner or later you may indeed think the same....

Did she come from a bar originally...??

[Mario2008]

The courts will side with the child and make a decision base don what they think is best for the child.

This will be a custody battle, in which he court wil award one parent prime responsibility and the other parent visitation rights or a few days a week. If the mother asks for it, the court can order that the child cannot be taken out of the country.

You will only get sole custody over the child if the mother is uncapable or a danger to the child. Otherwise you will recieve shared custody with the mother.

Try to work things out with the mother, otherwise you might have to ask yourself the question if you want to live in Thailand to be with your child. To be honest, a child under 3 to 4 years old has a very poor memory and after a while you will become a complete stranger to your child if you do not visit regulary.

[Mario2008]

Did she come from a bar originally...??

I take offence of people who think that all Thai girls married to a foreigner are bar girls or every Thai woman is up to no good.

In all countries I know there are people playing tricks on their spouse when things go sour, it has nothing to do with being Thai. Most western people I know are happily married with a Thai wife, who isn't after their money or a visa for a Western country.

[Chivas]

Did she come from a bar originally...??

I take offence of people who think that all Thai girls married to a foreigner are bar girls or every Thai woman is up to no good.

In all countries I know there are people playing tricks on their spouse when things go sour, it has nothing to do with being Thai. Most western people I know are happily married with a Thai wife, who isn't after their money or a visa for a Western country.

No need to take offence whatsoever.......

One of mine was and my current situation is with a "normal girl" for want of a better expression......

Certainly no offence was meant.

[cjchaos]

She was not from a bar, but I don't thin custody 2 or 3 days is helpful as we are in different countries.

As a ligitimate father I have 50% of parental rights so won't a Thai court take this into consideration?

I don't find her to be the greatest mother as she took him on a motorbike before he was 6 months old to get him vaccinated.

I stopped her taking him on a motorbike when I was there and they started saying faring ting tong (foriegner crazy).

I'm not crazy I just didn't feel it is safe to take a baby on a motorbike.

She took him to her sisters workplace, a building site... I am not an expert but I wouldnt do that due to an abestos risk.

I have burn marks on the carpet from the Iron.. I am unsure if our son knocked the Iron over while I was at work! or the mother is just clumsy.

Is this enough for courts to side with me?

If not and I took the option to live in Thailand, unfortunately I don't have a degree.. is working out there an option?

I see so much posts about needing or not needing a degree for a work permit, it is such a grey area.

Can a foreign person live out there without a degree?

Edited May 22, 2012 by cjchaos

[Chivas]

She was not from a bar, but I don't thin custody 2 or 3 days is helpful as we are in different countries.

As a ligitimate father I have 50% of parental rights so won't a Thai court take this into consideration?

I don't find her to be the greatest mother as she took him on a motorbike before he was 6 months old to get him vaccinated.

I stopped her taking him on a motorbike when I was there and they started saying faring ting tong (foriegner crazy).

I'm not crazy I just didn't feel it is safe to take a baby on a motorbike.

She took him to her sisters workplace, a building site... I am not an expert but I wouldnt do that due to an abestos risk.

I have burn marks on the carpet from the Iron.. I am unsure if our son knocked the Iron over while I was at work! or the mother is just clumsy.

Is this enough for courts to side with me?

If not and I took the option to live in Thailand, unfortunately I don't have a degree.. is working out there an option?

I see so much posts about needing or not needing a degree for a work permit, it is such a grey area.

Can a foreign person live out there without a degree?

Best you talk to a Lawyer in Thailand buddy......??

Good luck to you if you're genuine....

[Spoonman]

Cut the purse strings, you will get what you want sooner or later.

[meatboy]

Did she come from a bar originally...??

I take offence of people who think that all Thai girls married to a foreigner are bar girls or every Thai woman is up to no good.

In all countries I know there are people playing tricks on their spouse when things go sour, it has nothing to do with being Thai. Most western people I know are happily married with a Thai wife, who isn't after their money or a visa for a Western country.

i will second that[chivas] seems to be on the regal toooooooooooooooooo much.

[meatboy]

my heart goes out to you,but be carful it could cost you big time[lawyers] for one,she might try and take you to the cleaners also her family,like it has been said if you dont have the money dont try it,maybe speak to the british embassy.good luck.

[Mario2008]

What you describe is not enough for sole custody over the child and you will not get more then a few days a week with the child. That is how a Thai court will take your rights into account.

Thailand has some possibilities to work without a degree, but not that many. It depends a lot on your skills and if they are in demand in Thailand and of course if you are up to living in a foreign country.

As said, first try to talk with your wife about why she left, maybe you can mend things and otherwise try to come to some settlement regarding the child.

Also talk with the embassy to see what your government can do.

[cjchaos]

Thanks for all your advice, I agree with the responses I am getting.

I won't become emotionally involved with anybody who is from a country that is not a member of the Hague agreement again like Thailand this is why my wife has not been charged and my son returned, Parental Child Abduction is not seen as a crime in Thailand.

Is my best option is to just locate my son and bring him back?

British embassy can help locate my child, I will need to call them.

Surely as my son is British, I should have the control of his British passport? not a Thai in Thailand I don't think.

Would I need a court order for the return of the passport?

A suspect any court order regarding lengh of duration I can bring my son to UK could be Vetod from the UK because Thailand is not in the Hague agreement.. and a Thai court order is not likely to be valid in the UK is it? so I shouldn't think any Thai Court would try to do this when deciding custody rights?

I sound selfish I know, but I want my son to grow up in England where we don't have huge numbers of Hepatisis, TB, AIDS and much less road accidents, no babies on motorbikes, real toilets and showers in all homes.. not a hole in the floor and a bucket of water like I've had to put up with when staying with my wifes family.

Edited May 23, 2012 by cjchaos

[Mario2008]

The passport belongs to the child, with one or both parents holding it. But in the end it is property of the Uk government. Going after the passport might not be wise, as it would limit the possibility of the child to travel. That seems not to be in your interest, if you want the child out of Thailand.

A Thai passport can only be applied for with your approval.

Locating the child and taking him back to the UK could back-fire on you. If the custody will be settled in the UK, a UK judge might not look kindly on it. This is something you must discuss with a UK-lawyer, who is familiar with cases like this.

[Mario2008]

As a UK citizen, you might want to call a charity called reunite, they help parents in case of iternational child abduction.

http://www.reunite.org/

[PattayaParent]

OP, you only have a few posts so I assume you're new to the Forum?

If you haven't been a regular reader before then you may not know that Mario2008 has a track record of knowing what he's talking about in these matters.

I suggest you research his past posts on the topic and take good notice of what he says.

Good luck

[dave111223]

If you have the kids passport and you both have the same last name try this.

Make up some phoney story and tell it to her father, about wanting to make sure your son is "well cared for" and that you want to put a few million baht in a bank account for your son.

But you just need to meet your wife and son one last time before you leave in order to hand over the money and say goodbye...

At said meeting grab the kid and run.

[PattayaParent]

If you have the kids passport and you both have the same last name try this.

Make up some phoney story and tell it to her father, about wanting to make sure your son is "well cared for" and that you want to put a few million baht in a bank account for your son.

But you just need to meet your wife and son one last time before you leave in order to hand over the money and say goodbye...

At said meeting grab the kid and run.

and the wife screams Police and you're nicked!

[beano2274]

Nicked, arrested, deported, blacklisted, no chance of seeing kid again.

You are gonna have to get in touch with your wife somehow and work it out together, I think she has had enough of the UK and wants to be with her family again. This is where you will find her.

The Embassy are not gonna help you in the least, this is what you should understand. They have no jurisdiction here, they can only advise, and they will not advise you to kidnap your child like the previous poster.

[dave111223]

and the wife screams Police and you're nicked!

Why would you get nicked if abducting your own child is not a crime in Thailand.

They might block you from leaving the country though if the wife calls immigration from before you can get out the country...but is she that savy? If it was me i'd leave by road first (with a bung at the border crossing to make things smoother if questions are asked), then fly back home from neighboring country.

This is all assuming he has the kids passport, and they have matching surnames.

Edited May 24, 2012 by dave111223

[cjchaos]

Yes, if it is not a crime in Thailand she wouldn't be able to call the Police.

She would need to fly to UK and get a court order from here.....

Virtually impossible.....

However, it's not impossible for me to go there and get a Thai court order.

I am thinking of using the part in Thai Law that stipulates if a parent commits gross missconduct or they abuse parental powers, the other parent can gain 100% parental control instead of 50/50.

She has became uncontactable now, which is defying my right to exersize my perental powers, therefore isn't she abusing hers?

A Thai Court may see her lies as gross missconduct, I just have to show the flight bookings to the court for this.

As for being an unfit mother, I can show she has a temper as she was voilent towards me... and I have tape recordings of her admitting it and lieing to Police.

As she took our soon on motorbikes, her sisters building site... motorbike being worst...

I know it's Thailand but I am sure it is still Thai Law to wear a helmit... and I never seen baby helmits before.

Do you guys think I have a strong case in a Thai Court?

I can also bring to light the Hague Agreement in a court to gain sympathy I think, even though the Police cannot act on this the court can take it into account that an offense in the UK has been committed as a child on holiday was not returned.

If I get a court order with all this she will be forced to hand our son and his passports back to me.

Is this my best option?

Being diplomatic with this women is impossible, I consider her to have BPD as she's rude, voilent, tells lies, double standard.. oh and went on dating websites while she was with me.

My guess is to try and con farang for money to send back to her family.

I think this is a major factor in why our marriage could not work.

Being European, I take care of my family, not my families family such as her father / mother / sisters and imaginary brother.

She didn't realize most of us don't have a money tree in or garden are a magically lamp with a genie in.

We are slightly more comfortable financially than Thai's, but to most of us funding additional families would throw the initial family into debt. She only considered that we get paid more, but didn't consider that rent is usually £600 a month and not £30 like in Thailand... food, utility bills follow the same fashion. We have council Tax.

If a farang realizes and stops giving spending money they are sending abroad, then they start asking for more clothes, things than required and then return it back to the shop to get the money... then they wonder why their husband wont trust them and get upset about it.

If she really wanted money, she shouldn't get married and have a baby with me, that's not a route to money.

As UK never ratified the Hague Convention after Thailand signed it, any Thai decision based on child maintenance wouldn't stand in UK. This is because REMO (Reciprocal Enforcement of Maintenance Orders) Unit, is only in force for countries that are full members of Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child abduction.

If her idea is to have a baby with me, go to Thailand divorce me, get child maintenance and send money to her family while she is feeding our son absolute crap, then it is a very bad idea is it wont work.

I am not saying not Child Maintenance is right, but any money sent for Joseph WONT be spent on him.

Often women send their Children to their family to look after and then go work in a bar to fund their whole family.

Another thing Thai Courts are aware of!

I thought my wife was okay, but I was pretty wrong on that one.

Edited May 25, 2012 by cjchaos

[Briggsy]

You're on the right track. Thaivisa is where this will be sorted out. Keep up the posts. The more you post, the closer you are to a solution.

[Chivas]

Yes, if it is not a crime in Thailand she wouldn't be able to call the Police.

She would need to fly to UK and get a court order from here.....

Virtually impossible.....

However, it's not impossible for me to go there and get a Thai court order.

I am thinking of using the part in Thai Law that stipulates if a parent commits gross missconduct or they abuse parental powers, the other parent can gain 100% parental control instead of 50/50.

She has became uncontactable now, which is defying my right to exersize my perental powers, therefore isn't she abusing hers?

A Thai Court may see her lies as gross missconduct, I just have to show the flight bookings to the court for this.

As for being an unfit mother, I can show she has a temper as she was voilent towards me... and I have tape recordings of her admitting it and lieing to Police.

As she took our soon on motorbikes, her sisters building site... motorbike being worst...

I know it's Thailand but I am sure it is still Thai Law to wear a helmit... and I never seen baby helmits before.

Do you guys think I have a strong case in a Thai Court?

I can also bring to light the Hague Agreement in a court to gain sympathy I think, even though the Police cannot act on this the court can take it into account that an offense in the UK has been committed as a child on holiday was not returned.

If I get a court order with all this she will be forced to hand our son and his passports back to me.

Is this my best option?

Being diplomatic with this women is impossible, I consider her to have BPD as she's rude, voilent, tells lies, double standard.. oh and went on dating websites while she was with me.

My guess is to try and con farang for money to send back to her family.

I think this is a major factor in why our marriage could not work.

Being European, I take care of my family, not my families family such as her father / mother / sisters and imaginary brother.

She didn't realize most of us don't have a money tree in or garden are a magically lamp with a genie in.

We are slightly more comfortable financially than Thai's, but to most of us funding additional families would throw the initial family into debt. She only considered that we get paid more, but didn't consider that rent is usually £600 a month and not £30 like in Thailand... food, utility bills follow the same fashion. We have council Tax.

If a farang realizes and stops giving spending money they are sending abroad, then they start asking for more clothes, things than required and then return it back to the shop to get the money... then they wonder why their husband wont trust them and get upset about it.

If she really wanted money, she shouldn't get married and have a baby with me, that's not a route to money.

As UK never ratified the Hague Convention after Thailand signed it, any Thai decision based on child maintenance wouldn't stand in UK. This is because REMO (Reciprocal Enforcement of Maintenance Orders) Unit, is only in force for countries that are full members of Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child abduction.

If her idea is to have a baby with me, go to Thailand divorce me, get child maintenance and send money to her family while she is feeding our son absolute crap, then it is a very bad idea is it wont work.

I am not saying not Child Maintenance is right, but any money sent for Joseph WONT be spent on him.

Often women send their Children to their family to look after and then go work in a bar to fund their whole family.

Another thing Thai Courts are aware of!

I thought my wife was okay, but I was pretty wrong on that one.

Am sure I'm only making the point that others are probably thinking, but I consider that going by what you've said you're putting yourself at risk by going to Thailand.....??

I sadly have seen at first hand in the past how demented they can become apon loss of face, in situations like this.......They quite simply explode.

[Mario2008]

Child maintenance is for the child, and a Thai court awards between 3,000 and 6,000 baht per month maximum, with both parents splitting the medical and educational costs.

However, the child is a dual national and the right to maintenance is that of the child itself. Sometimes that means the child (or actually an entity on behalf of the child), can make a claim in the other country. All the mother has to do is contact the appropriete authorithies and a lawsuit on behalf of the child can be filed.

[cjchaos]

I got this from government website.

Reciprocal Enforcement of Maintenance Orders

The UK has international agreements with more than 100 countries about child maintenance. These arrangements are called Reciprocal Enforcement of Maintenance Orders (REMO).

If a REMO is put in place, it means that:

child maintenance orders made by UK courts can be registered and enforced in other countries

child maintenance orders made in foreign countries can be registered and enforced by UK courts

Here is a list of countries UK cooperates with on child support. http://www.justice.g...cation-list.pdf

Lucky for me, Thailand isn't on that list of 100 countries UK has a REMO agreement with.

Perhaps other European countries and America is different.

UK didn't agree to all the EU constitutions, so if her plan was to have a baby, leave me to get child support her plans failed.

Anybody from UK would be paying it voluntary to any country not on that list and I would rather save my money for a lawyer.

I checked and my wife is abusing parental power by not disclosing location of our son. I have equal parental rights and the power to enforce them from outside Thailand, this is Thai Law. I have now used this to request Thai Police to find my son and tell me where he is. Abusing parental power can also be classed as gross missconduct, it will help me win custody back. Once I know this information I can get the British Embassy to send would somebody to get a welfare report, she can either refuse to cooperate which will loo bad for her, or she can cooperate and they will probably find dirty toilets, wires hanging around, plug sockets secured with masking tape.. maybe some other dangerous or illness prone conditions that I've seen around her friends and families house. I've been reading all week what government organizations help with what, and it's like a puzzle getting different organizations to help in different ways. I think it may be lengthy and a bit costly, but I think I can win so I am trying to stay upbeat about this, after all most Thais won't pay for a Lawyer so there won't be an awful lot of defense when I take her to court. Abducting a child from the other parent right now feels unforgivable, but I don't want revenge, just to be reunited with my son and I will use every resource I have at my disposal and if I fail, at least I gave it my best shot. When my son is older I can say he was taken from me and I tried my best to get him back. What son will forgive their mother for taking them away from their father because she couldn't fleece farang for money to send back to her greedy family. Yes they're greedy... they eat every-time I look at them and all I hear is GIN KAO every 5 minutes! it's unbelievable actually. Her sisters are obese and her mother and father also look overweight.

Edited May 25, 2012 by cjchaos

[farang000999]

This topic should be the one stickied in the main forum instead of the Sin Sot nonsense. My heart goes out to the OP and others in this terrible situation.

[Nip]

Thanks for all your advice, I agree with the responses I am getting.

I won't become emotionally involved with anybody who is from a country that is not a member of the Hague agreement again like Thailand this is why my wife has not been charged and my son returned, Parental Child Abduction is not seen as a crime in Thailand.

Is my best option is to just locate my son and bring him back?

British embassy can help locate my child, I will need to call them.

Surely as my son is British, I should have the control of his British passport? not a Thai in Thailand I don't think.

Would I need a court order for the return of the passport?

A suspect any court order regarding lengh of duration I can bring my son to UK could be Vetod from the UK because Thailand is not in the Hague agreement.. and a Thai court order is not likely to be valid in the UK is it? so I shouldn't think any Thai Court would try to do this when deciding custody rights?

I sound selfish I know, but I want my son to grow up in England where we don't have huge numbers of Hepatisis, TB, AIDS and much less road accidents, no babies on motorbikes, real toilets and showers in all homes.. not a hole in the floor and a bucket of water like I've had to put up with when staying with my wifes family.

Sadly this is your problem and yours alone. Nobody can or will help you in Thailand inc the embassy. You have no rights at all under Thai law and even if you did the authorities here will not assist you. You have as I see it just one option and that is to be equally creative and con your wife into bringing your son back to England. Perhaps a death in the extended family and an unexpected windfall for your son but he must return to England to inherit? Thai's are intoxicated by the smell of money use it to your advantage! She conned you so now you must put on your thinking cap and find something that will make her take the return trip ...

[hopdafru]

Thanks for all your advice, I agree with the responses I am getting.

I won't become emotionally involved with anybody who is from a country that is not a member of the Hague agreement again like Thailand this is why my wife has not been charged and my son returned, Parental Child Abduction is not seen as a crime in Thailand.

Is my best option is to just locate my son and bring him back?

British embassy can help locate my child, I will need to call them.

Surely as my son is British, I should have the control of his British passport? not a Thai in Thailand I don't think.

Would I need a court order for the return of the passport?

A suspect any court order regarding lengh of duration I can bring my son to UK could be Vetod from the UK because Thailand is not in the Hague agreement.. and a Thai court order is not likely to be valid in the UK is it? so I shouldn't think any Thai Court would try to do this when deciding custody rights?

I sound selfish I know, but I want my son to grow up in England where we don't have huge numbers of Hepatisis, TB, AIDS and much less road accidents, no babies on motorbikes, real toilets and showers in all homes.. not a hole in the floor and a bucket of water like I've had to put up with when staying with my wifes family.

Sadly this is your problem and yours alone. Nobody can or will help you in Thailand inc the embassy. You have no rights at all under Thai law and even if you did the authorities here will not assist you. You have as I see it just one option and that is to be equally creative and con your wife into bringing your son back to England. Perhaps a death in the extended family and an unexpected windfall for your son but he must return to England to inherit? Thai's are intoxicated by the smell of money use it to your advantage! She conned you so now you must put on your thinking cap and find something that will make her take the return trip ...

Make a copy of one of those 'you have won 100.000 GBP' as selected from a random list of travelers... you must pick up your prize in person or be accompanied by a parent / legal xxx 18 or older. who knows! put it in the name of your child...

of course if this is illegal don't do it...

[henry2109]

I think you do not have a realistic chance to get the court order you want. Bringing your son against your will to Thailand resp. hide him away here does not mean much to a Thai Court or may result in explanations or accusations from your wife. At the end, you will not get single custody, and as a result, your son has to stay in Thailand where you can visit him. The juristiction in Thailand is very slowly going, so be prepared to wait for months if not years.

If you want your son back with you in England, I see only two choices:

1) Buy him back.

Convince your wife and her family of all the advantages of a childhood in England and with you. Be calm and friendly with your wife and her family. Offer them some hundertthousend Baht for their expenses and their demand or for whatsoever. Make it clear, that if you have to go back without your son they will not get any single Baht out of you. Let the discussion and negotiation be done by a trustworthy third person (maybe a local lawyer), because you are emotionally to much involved and that could cause problems. I guess for your wife it is hard to let her son go, but the gready bastards of her family may build up some pressure on her when the money is big enough. Let the offer make to the whole family, not only to your wife. In case of succes let the money pay through a lawyer at the moment you sit in an airplane with your son.

2) Grab your son and run.

This alternative is tried quiet sometimes by desperate parents and especially in countries outside the Haague Convention because they know it is either this way or no way. Usually, they get support from specialist in this field, and leave the country over the land border, and obtain also a passport if needed. The whole proceeding has to be planed carefully. The cost may be equal high as choice 1.

This way may be illegal, so check your plan and any consequences carefully with a lawyer, before you act.

[nocturn]

You're on the right track. Thaivisa is where this will be sorted out. Keep up the posts. The more you post, the closer you are to a solution.

what?

i beg to differ, this will be sorted in the courts or on thee ground. Not thaivisa, though some good advice may be had here.