Brit Accident Students Mother Call For Foreign Office To Issue Warnings On Thai Dangerous Roads

[AverageFarang]

It would be blackly amusing to be a fly on the wall in the case of some of our more "realistic" members who, on a visit to the doctor, heard

"Ah yes, we've got your test results back. Unfortunately you've got colon cancer which has metastized to your liver and lungs. Ah well, Suck it up, shit happens and death is inevitable as they say. Cup of tea?"

Excellent.

Fact is, some of these bus drivers are SCUM with no respect at all for human life.

Fact is, some foreign blokes can't accept that some people in their beloved Thailand are SCUM.

Edited May 25, 2012 by AverageFarang

[impulse]

Here's a challenge: Start a bus company in Thailand. Buy properly equipped buses that are up to European safety standards. Staff them with drivers that are vetted, drug and tested trained to European standards and work European mandated hours for transit drivers. Maintain the buses according to European requirements, and pay European rates for liability insurance.

Heck, for good measure, advertise them as the safest buses in Thailand and charge a premium price for a seat on your ultra safe buses.

Then start your stopwatch and see how long you stay in business.

I took a bus from Ekkamai to Pattaya a few weeks back on a Saturday. Chose them because they came recommended by some long stay friends. Paid $4 (124 baht) for the seat. The bus had 42 seats- 32 of them were filled. That's about $125 of revenue. Minus the tolls, minus the fuel, leaves precious little money to buy and amortize the bus, rent the ticket office and bays, pay the driver and ticket ladies and have a little left over for a profit. There were 24 seats filled on my return trip- even grimmer numbers.

Sadly, the very thing(s) that draw tourists to places like Thailand are the things that make those places dangerous. Cheap transport and accomodations, a sense of freedom from the restrictions we all feel "back home", the (normally) low consequences if you do get plastered and act foolish, etc. Right up until the law of averages takes the life away from a tiny but very significant percentage of holiday makers.

My heart goes out to these ladies and I wish them well in their efforts to warn folks about the dangers of leaving the safety of home for exotic locales. In an ideal world, we could look up the statistical danger of every decision we make and action we take- every road we choose. I just don't see it happening, but if they take some comfort in their efforts, Godspeed to them.

Edited May 25, 2012 by impulse

[philw]

There is nothing dangerous about the roads in Thailand. It's the drivers that couse the accidents.

Actually, that is complete nonsense.

Very many roads, intersections, junctions etc etc are very badly designed.

I also think the standard of Thai driving, particularly HGV has improved greatly over the last 10 years or so.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Yes it is present in everything we do, however all this woman wants to happen is that the risks are highlighted so more people are aware that using a bus in Thailand is statistically more dangerous than using a bus in the UK, due to long hours, lax enforcement of laws and regulations, poor safety standards, and a driving test that is far less strict than it should be, in fact does one need the equivalent of a PSV licence to drive passengers in Thailand?

However such a warning would be more useful if it were simply worded:

Absolutely every activity you engage in while in Thailand is more dangerous than the same activity back home. If it's something you can't do at all back home, then it's probably very dangerous.

So if you want to reduce your risks, don't leave the country. If you really want to be safe, stay in bed. All the time. But even then you're not really safe.

People might come here expecting some level of professionalism from a 'professional' (as in drives for a living rather than based on ability) driver when that is in reality missing, so it is only fair that when people are here they can expect much lower standards than in the UK rather than just 'different' standards.

If a warning saves lives and makes sure people are aware of dangers then its all good, maybe they will learn if the driver is a reckless bell whiff then they should get off the bus and make other arrangements rather than keep playing the lottery they are playing on that journey, it might make people do simple internet searches to find reputable companies that obey the laws and use them to reduce the risk of being killed or maimed because of some poor or reckless driving.

Problem is it isn't possible to ensure anything of the sort, whether from "internet search" or whatever, just being on the roads in Thailand is 5000% more risky than doing so back home, even if you're driving yourself in a brand new car just certified by your most trusted mechanic.

People die, sure the family and friends are upset, but bottom line life is cheap here, deal with it.

Edited May 25, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[jko]

I’m deeply saddened to see a tragic loss of life become an exchange of some irreverent and unacceptable comment on this forum.

It does not take much to imagine the enduring and terrible heartbreak of the families involved, nor understand that this painful nightmare will live in their memories for the rest of their lives. In view of this, I find some of the messages posted here to be profoundly disrespectful, and insensitive.

I salute the mothers involved for their caring and sustained attempts to try and save other young travellers from the same fate, and for bringing the dangers of travelling by road in Thailand, especially by night buses, to the attention of the world media.

My heart goes out to all of them, I hope their campaign brings results, and I am sure that most TV members share this hope. We all know however, that the Thai authorities will most likely do nothing to regulate it, and the danger, alas, will doubtless remain.

The best we can do is to emphasise and publicise the obvious to all who want to travel by bus in Thailand:

-Book only with respected, reliable and established bus companies

-NEVER travel with with unlicensed rogue coach operators, or book with hole-in-the-wall ticket agencies.

-Whenever possible, travel during daylight hours, not at night.

-Avoid travelling during festivals such as Songkran, Loy Krathong etc. when drunk driving is so prevalent.

I would like to suggest that to show respect for the boys who died, and their bereaved families, that if possible, this thread be closed for any further comments.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

-Book only with respected, reliable and established bus companies

-NEVER travel with with unlicensed rogue coach operators, or book with hole-in-the-wall ticket agencies.

-Whenever possible, travel during daylight hours, not at night.

-Avoid travelling during festivals such as Songkran, Loy Krathong etc. when drunk driving is so prevalent.

Fair enough, but added to the above should be a disclaimer that even following all the above steps, such travel will still be much more dangerous than doing so at home.

People really concerned about safety should not come to Thailand. Even "high-end tourists" are at risk, although a lot less than young backpackers, as the guy getting electrocuted in a x-star resort pool in Phuket recently demonstrated.

[villagefarang]

This story has been plastered all over the news and they are trying to instigate additional government regulation so I don’t think you get to pull the sympathy card. This is a forum discussion not a wake. If it had been kept a private matter then the rules might be different.

[BrianCR]

How about a generic warning that life is filled with danger and death is inevitable?

As sorry as I am regarding the death of the three kids I think that your post is the most sensible so far!

[bigbamboo]

It would be blackly amusing to be a fly on the wall in the case of some of our more "realistic" members who, on a visit to the doctor, heard

"Ah yes, we've got your test results back. Unfortunately you've got colon cancer which has metastized to your liver and lungs. Ah well, Suck it up, shit happens and death is inevitable as they say. Cup of tea?"

Excellent.

Fact is, some of these bus drivers are SCUM with no respect at all for human life.

Fact is, some foreign blokes can't accept that some people in their beloved Thailand are SCUM.

That's no way to talk about some of your fellow TV posters!

[metisdead]

One post of a tragic nature not related to this topic has been removed.

An inflammatory post removed as well.

Edited May 25, 2012 by metisdead

[metisdead]

An inflammatory personal attack post has been removed. Try again, but leave the insults and such out of the post.

[somtumlion]

The roads in Thailand are very dangerous - I drive them every day. Sympathies for those affected - I prefer trains or planes - much safer.

[kutjebu]

It's here better then the most places in India,with chickens on the roof.

[bigbamboo]

It's here better then the most places in India,with chickens on the roof.

I agree. Driving in India makes driving in Thailand seem like driving in 1950s Britain!

[marstons]

Had there been warnings on the FCO website and they had read them would it have stopped them getting on the bus, i doubt it,, it certainly does not stop people jumping on motorbikes and going out and getting drunk. Whats the point of the warnings nobody reads or care's and after all once you enter Thailand and swampy your in wonderland and invincible, in a country filled with the most wonderfull people in the world. If its the second or third trip then you know all there is to know about safty on bikes, buses, roads and Thailand in general.

Its a trgic loss but always going to happen here and other developing countries.

Edited May 25, 2012 by marstons

[Asiantravel]

Here's a challenge: Start a bus company in Thailand. Buy properly equipped buses that are up to European safety standards. Staff them with drivers that are vetted, drug and tested trained to European standards and work European mandated hours for transit drivers. Maintain the buses according to European requirements, and pay European rates for liability insurance.

Heck, for good measure, advertise them as the safest buses in Thailand and charge a premium price for a seat on your ultra safe buses.

Then start your stopwatch and see how long you stay in business.

I took a bus from Ekkamai to Pattaya a few weeks back on a Saturday. Chose them because they came recommended by some long stay friends. Paid $4 (124 baht) for the seat. The bus had 42 seats- 32 of them were filled. That's about $125 of revenue. Minus the tolls, minus the fuel, leaves precious little money to buy and amortize the bus, rent the ticket office and bays, pay the driver and ticket ladies and have a little left over for a profit. There were 24 seats filled on my return trip- even grimmer numbers.

Sadly, the very thing(s) that draw tourists to places like Thailand are the things that make those places dangerous. Cheap transport and accomodations, a sense of freedom from the restrictions we all feel "back home", the (normally) low consequences if you do get plastered and act foolish, etc. Right up until the law of averages takes the life away from a tiny but very significant percentage of holiday makers.

My heart goes out to these ladies and I wish them well in their efforts to warn folks about the dangers of leaving the safety of home for exotic locales. In an ideal world, we could look up the statistical danger of every decision we make and action we take- every road we choose. I just don't see it happening, but if they take some comfort in their efforts, Godspeed to them.

as far as I'm concerned Thailand already has a bus company of this standard.

they just don't seem concerned about marketing themselves to foreigners but that doesn't

worry them because if you just turn up and try to book a seat on their first class

journeys you will find they are always full

On most journeys they have two drivers and if you read their website you will see their

drivers are regularly tested in all regards

http://www.nca.co.th/firstclass.php

[pieandmash]

does switzzerland rate increased warnings as well?

28 killed in horror school coach crash | The Sun |News

Why should it when it has a road death rate 4 times less than Thailand ? less in fact than the UK!

http://www.photius.c...kings_2009.html

[theblether]

Any pressure that can be brought to improve road safety has to be welcomed. I reckon the roads are fine, it is the drivers and atrocious maintenance that's at fault, as well as stupid unrealisable journey times being imposed on the bus drivers. They are being paid to speed.

[Ulysses G.]

How about a generic warning that life is filled with danger and death is inevitable?

As sorry as I am regarding the death of the three kids I think that your post is the most sensible so far!

I concur. Traveling in a developing country can be dangerous and it does not take much effort to find that out before leaving the motherland.

[dracula]

As long as driving licenses are taken so easily and traffic laws are not enforced there will always be accidents. The problem are not the roads but the crazy drivers.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect App

[villagefarang]

As long as driving licenses are taken so easily and traffic laws are not enforced there will always be accidents. The problem are not the roads but the crazy drivers.

In my opinion a shortened version would have sufficed. “There will always be accidents.”

[Yunla]

Agree with many points, especially that driving standards need to be raised higher in Thailand by training and enforcement. I disagree somewhat because I also think that the roads in many places do need improvement, its not only the drivers imo. Nobody should have to u-turn through concrete blocks into oncoming traffic to change roads, there should be roundabouts for that, for example. Problem here is government, they do not invest in roads or road safety regulation and training, they invest in cheap promo toys for the poor and big lavish banquets for themselves.

[davehowden]

Seems to me that the parents could have done a bit more to make themselves and their children aware of the risks, instead of making it somebody elses (FCO) responsibly.

But then would the 19 year olds have taken any notice even if they had been advised?

The same warnings apply to Laos, Vietnam, India and on and on ............

Part of the "fun" of travel for the young is the risk element, sometimes it has tragic results.

[impulse]

as far as I'm concerned Thailand already has a bus company of this standard.

they just don't seem concerned about marketing themselves to foreigners but that doesn't

worry them because if you just turn up and try to book a seat on their first class

journeys you will find they are always full

On most journeys they have two drivers and if you read their website you will see their

drivers are regularly tested in all regards

http://www.nca.co.th/firstclass.php

Great info. I'd be very pleased to find out I was wrong and there is a market here for safer travel companies- even if they do cost more. I'll be looking them up next time I'm headed somewhere on a bus.

And if that's the case, perhaps there's a market for the "Lonely Planet Guide to Safer Travel in the Tropics"? You know, buses with 2 drivers, hotel rooms with smoke detectors, jet ski rentals with no scamming, and... I'd buy the book.

Edited May 26, 2012 by impulse

[abhaya]

If you want the safety and comfort of home, then stay home.

Edited May 26, 2012 by abhaya

[villagefarang]

If you want the safety and comfort of home, than stay home.

then

[abhaya]

ok than what?

[eddo]

That's why i never travel by bus in Thailand, i have seen to much accidents. First of all most drivers (not only busdrivers) drive to fast, second they are not pro's, anyone ever heard busdrivers have to do an exam and will get a certificate when they pass the exam? NO...! Third they sh*t on traffic rules, are loaded with M150, etc. etc. Do i have to tell more? I don't think so every farang (except the Thai themselves) who lives for quite a while in Thailand can extend this list.

[keith101]

mandatory testing of bus drivers for alcahol and drugs may eliminate some accidents and a lessening of pressure to time tables may also help.i personaly have almost been run off the road by two buses overtaing a truck on a blind bend and had i not seen them in time would surely not be writing this now.

[Bagwan]

The likelihood of Western teenagers of reading and heeding Government safety warnings is as remote as Thai road users using a rear view mirror.