Thai Grandmother Running The Show.... What Can I Do?

[tabbyismylife]

I have a beatifull 6 month old girl and i so want to be a part of her life......

So heres the story...

A year ago i met Thai girl and she got pregnat... At the same time as she was pregnant i got sick and could not work so i didnt give her alot of money to help her with all... I gave her about 30000b .... The baby was born in December and as of Febuary1st i was giving her 6000b every two weeks....im back at work now so its not a problem to give the money but as of May i need to change it to 10000b a month.... The mother has a job as an account but she say that she only makes 20000b per month... She lives with her brother in a small room in BKK... And that costs about 5000b per month... After 3 months after Tabby was born she sent Tabby to live with her Grandmother in Surin. As i said before i do pay 10000b per month for my Daughter....

I told Tabby's mother that i could come to Thailand and that i wanted to see her.... we made some arrangements that i would pay for Tabby and the grandmother to stay in a hotel and the cost of the trip to BBK.. But that Tabby's Grandmother wanted me to go to their home town in Surin... I told her that i didnt feel comfortable about it but that i would think about it.... I know that its just for there own satisfaction.... So after seeing Tabby for two days and let me tell you she is my heart, her grandmother said that they are going back to Surin the next day if i no agree to go to surin.... I really felt pushed against the wall about it.... and i said that i didnt fell good about it .... that night they left the hotel and are staying in that small hot room... now its not the money but i want my daughter comfortable and not in a small hot room with three other people..... Tabby's mother say she can not do anything.... Because its the thai way of respect for mom.... And i can only see her if i go to Surin now.... Im very hurt about all this and dont know what to do... I have to leave here in five days and not thinking so straight.....

I also have planned to get my daughters Canadian citizenship papers done here too.... i have all the paperwork ready....

So here are my questions.....

1/ Is 10000b amonth ok... im not a rich man....

2/ Should i take this to a Thai court?

3/ Should i wait beforew i do Tabby's Canadian Citizenship papers? And should i give them to Tabby's mother or keep them for myself?

4/ What can i do? I feel i have a right to acesse to my daughter. and dont want to have these problems.....

Please if you have any good advise i would aprecate it.... I care for my daughter so much.....

Michael

[Mario2008]

10,000 a month is enough for the cost of raising a child. Mainy Thais raise a family on that amount. Don't forget that the cost is a responsibility of you and the mother together. On the otherhand, you do want your child to be comforatble.

Should take what to a Thai court? A Thai court will recognise you as the father and probably grand you access to the child. As the legal father the rgandmother can't keep you away from the child. But that doesn't mean she has to come to BKK with the child, you will have to visit the child (and take it with you if you want).

Become the legal fahter first, it is a good reason for the mother to cooperate with you becoming the legal father.

[Bpraim1]

good luck

[TommoPhysicist]

What makes you think the child is yours?

Done a DNA test?

If the man living with her, brother or husband?

Do not give any money to anyone until child is DNA tested.

(Canada insist on DNA tests I thought)

Court awards for child maintenance in a place like Surin is about 3000bht a month.

I wouldn't pay more unless the family were co-operative about access.

I wouldn't pay any until DNA test results were in.

Proceed from the point when the child is proven to be yours.

Edited May 28, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[tabbyismylife]

What makes you think the child is yours?

Done a DNA test?

If the man living with her, brother or husband?

Do not give any money to anyone until child is DNA tested.

(Canada insist on DNA tests I thought)

Court awards for child maintenance in a place like Surin is about 3000bht a month.

I wouldn't pay more unless the family were co-operative about access.

I wouldn't pay any until DNA test results were in.

Proceed from the point when the child is proven to be yours.

I know that shes my daughter its a for sure thing.... And i know that hes her brother too.... This isnt a girl i picked up in a bar and we were together for about 8 months.... Edited May 28, 2012 by tabbyismylife

[Satcommlee]

If you are unmarried the first important thing you must know is that you have ZERO rights.

I would not offer a monthly amount such as 10K baht as such, but a reduced amount with the undertaking that you will pay for schooling and possibly medical insurance and other expenses that you can pay yourself direct by bank transfer etc.

10K is a lot of money up in Surin and could probably support the wider extended family also. I mention to pay for schooling yourself and medical insurance because these are things you will want to be sure are right and Tabby actually receives the benefit, otherwise the family may drink the money away.

It is common for girls to send their babies upcountry and continue working, and I'm afraid to say - it is also very common for brothers to actually be husbands/boyfriends.

You can ask the court to be recognised as the legal guardian, providing the mother/grandmother agrees, without agreement you will probably not win if you are not staying in the country.

Also you can wait untill around the age of 7, and Tabby can make a declaration to the Amphur, this will also legalise your relationship but again the mother has to agree.

What is your strongest weapon in my opinion is your money.. You can insist on being declared the legal guardian by a family court and also at the same time make a legal commitment to support the child.. You have to be firm here.. no guardianship/no money!!

Good luck whatever you decide.

[David48]

If you are unmarried the first important thing you must know is that you have ZERO rights.

What Satcommlee wrote above is very important. Don't assume that because you are on the Birth Certificate that you are recognised legally as her father with the associated Parental rights.

There is a pinned topic above by one of the Mods, Mario2008 titled How to gain parental rights as a father.

To give you a flavour of it ...

When a baby is born, it is clear who the mother is. Who the father is remains the question. If the mother is married the the law will assume that the husband is the father of the child. It doesn't matter who makes the registration.

However, if the mother is not married, the law makes no such assumption and the father being named on the the birth certificate is not enough. After all,anyone can be named on the birth certificate as the father, without that person knowing let alone agreeing. In that case the father has to legitimize the child, with which he acknowledge before the law that he is the father of the child.

The Thai law gives 3 possibilities to become the legal father of a child: ...

[David48]

tabbyismylife as the OP wrote ...

I told Tabby's mother

You write with passion about your daughter Tabby.

But you refer to your daughters mother in the third person ... do you not consider her, the mother of your child, as your girlfriend?

Your answer may determine how some people reply ...

For example, if she is not currently your girlfriend ... do you have a comfortable working relationship with her?

Want to know more about

Fish Farms or a simple Australian Visa Application ?

Edited May 28, 2012 by David48

[tabbyismylife]

tabbyismylife as the OP wrote ...

I told Tabby's mother

You write with passion about your daughter Tabby.

But you refer to your daughters mother in the third person ... do you not consider her, the mother of your child, as your girlfriend?

Your answer may determine how some people reply ...

For example, if she is not currently your girlfriend ... do you have a comfortable working relationship with her?

Want to know more about

Fish Farms or a simple Australian Visa Application ?

I understand this now about zero rights.... but i also feel that even if i have zero rights that i as Tabbys father still have a responcibity to support her.... Shes part of me.... I know that Tabbys grandmother is pulling the strings right now and that Tabbys mother is caught in the middle too.... I still care for Tabbys mother because she is her mother.... and that if she didnt shame her family about getting pregnat it might be different.... but regardless im will ing to fight for my rights as a father because even if i lose my daughter will know that i never gave up on her.... but the question now is how do i go through the courts? What is the time line and do i have to be here in bkk the whole time for it.... But i do have the ampur book that im the registored father of Tabby....

Edited May 29, 2012 by tabbyismylife

[Mario2008]

You need to go to court to become the legal father. It will not be difficult to be recognised as the legal fahter. How long i will take and how much depends on if the mother will contest you are the legal father or if she will come to court and agree that you are the father. In the last case, it will take 2 or 3 months, if the mother contest it will take much longer.

You offering to pay support for the child should help the mother agreeing that you are the legal fahter.

Next comes the question of being able to see the child. That will also be very important to the child, but do realize that children don't have much of a memory till they are about 3 or 4 years old. You will be a virtual stranger to the child with only a few visits a year.

[David48]

I understand this now about zero rights.... but i also feel that even if i have zero rights that i as Tabbys father still have a responcibity to support her.... Shes part of me.... I know that Tabbys grandmother is pulling the strings right now and that Tabbys mother is caught in the middle too.... I still care for Tabbys mother because she is her mother.... and that if she didnt shame her family about getting pregnat it might be different.... but regardless im will ing to fight for my rights as a father because even if i lose my daughter will know that i never gave up on her.... but the question now is how do i go through the courts? What is the time line and do i have to be here in bkk the whole time for it.... But i do have the ampur book that im the registored father of Tabby....

Great that have been able to get your head around the fact that even if you have your name on Tabby's Birth Certificate, that does not mean that you are recognised legally as her Father ... they are two sperate but related issues.

One of the strengths in these specialist Forums in Thai Visa is the quality advice given by those who have been then - done that.

Plus the great general advice given by the Mods, Mario2008, in this instance.

EDIT:- ... and I'm not saying that my advice is 'quality' ... it's just my thoughts on your issue.

Edited May 29, 2012 by David48

[David48]

I broken this up into a few different posts for readability and one thought, one post and easier feedback and comment.

So, following on from above, may I warmly suggest that you start a strategy to ensure the co-operation of Tabby’s mother when it comes to the possible court appearance and having you recognised as Tabby’s Father.

As Mario2008 points out above … it is a far easier process through the Thai Courts if the mother agrees and concedes that you are indeed the Father of Tabby and prepared to declare that in court.

So … develop a strategy to ensure co-operation.

[David48]

Another thing to get your head around is that money is different in Thailand and your country and to think that $200 in Canadian terms is not much, maybe a days pay but in Surin … it’s 5 1/2 weeks wages (@ 180 Baht a day) for a Factory Worker.

I know that you commented on the poor conditions that Tabby is currently in, but remember tens of thousands of Thai kids grow up happy and healthy in mush worse conditions that what you have described.

Additionally, you might want to take the time to learn a little bit about Thai respect and understanding that ‘throwing money at the problem’, in Thailand may not be the answer to the question.

However withholding or reducing money may indeed be the answer …

Sometimes less is more

[David48]

One suggestion would be to reduce the support payments now to something more reasonable.

I’ll defer to others for what that amount should be for Child support. The Thai courts set a standard figure and I’m sure it’s way less then 10,000 Baht a month.

As Mario2008 points out above, some (entire) Thai families have a household budget of 10,000 Baht!

In a phone call (don’t put it in writing) indicate to Tabby’s mother that the support will be raised to a higher figure (and I suggest not actually mentioning one at this stage because no amount of money will be deemed to be enough) once you are legally recognised as Tabby’s father.

Now I know that this strategy is maybe a little controversial and I’m sure others will comment on the pros and cons with it.

Just don’t give into demands or crying on the phone … be strong and gain respect and when the timing is right … be supportive, generously (for Thailand) supportive.

But until that time is right, ‘keep your powder dry’ … timing is everything.

[canman]

What makes you think the child is yours?

Done a DNA test?

If the man living with her, brother or husband?

Do not give any money to anyone until child is DNA tested.

(Canada insist on DNA tests I thought)

Court awards for child maintenance in a place like Surin is about 3000bht a month.

I wouldn't pay more unless the family were co-operative about access.

I wouldn't pay any until DNA test results were in.

Proceed from the point when the child is proven to be yours.

I know that shes my daughter its a for sure thing.... And i know that hes her brother too.... This isnt a girl i picked up in a bar and we were together for about 8 months....

I respect and applaud your commitment to your daughter but...... you do not know she is yours until you have a DNA test, simple as that. You need to do this as a first step.

[dave111223]

It's interesting how you refer to the Grandmother as "running the show" and "pulling the strings"....in reality she is waking up 3 or 4 times a night to feed your baby a bottle, wiping the poo off your baby's butt every day, trying to keep your baby entertained all day, bringing your baby to the doctor for vaccinations etc...etc... etc... when I'm taking care of my 2 kids the last thing I feel like i'm doing is "pull strings" and "running the show"...

Then when you show up you expect them to all of a sudden hop on a bus to Bangkok and stay in a hotel...have you ever traveled with a baby? Have ever had tried to quiet a screaming baby on a bus/plane for hours on end? 2 or 3 extra bags for the baby with clothes, bottles, bedding, toys, etc... all because "you don't feel comfortable"...

Reality check time, she is doing all the hard work for you, either put up (go to visit them at their home, watch the baby all night so everyone else can get a nights rest, take the baby out all day so they can have a break), or shut up.

Edited May 30, 2012 by dave111223

[tabbyismylife]

I have a 22 year old son named Josh whos mother died two days after his birth... So YES I know what it takes to take care of a baby all alone and then some.... Tabbys mother and i talked 6 weeks before i came here to arrange for me to spend time with her....We made an agreement about when to come and what I would pay and how much time i would have.... As for Surin i want it to be a choice not a demand....

I will be leaving to go there tonight as we all know its just for show towards the Grandmother and Grandfather saving face in their town that there daughter did them right ... And I will be the entertainment....But i dont care if iam, I just care Tabby....

When im there i will get a better idea about how my Daughter is taken care of.... I already explained a bit to Tabbys mother about us making an agreement... Need to do it in slow easy steps with the Thais..... Their like 5 year olds sometimes.....

Edited May 30, 2012 by tabbyismylife

[Baytur]

This isnt a girl i picked up in a bar and we were together for about 8 months....

Means nothing.

[David48]

No comment about my suggestion ... ???

[TommoPhysicist]

The weaker you are, the more you give, the less they will let you see your kid.

That's the way it works, nobody in Thailand respects a fool.

DNA test first, then 100bht a day maintenance, it it's your kid.

No cash in hand, everything through her bank account.

[RealMaya]

Hi Michael,

...take it easy. One thing you should know that there is a way to solve this problem. But whatever way, you cannot have it done within this trip!

1. Q: 10K is enough?

A: Far from enough.

2. Q: Thai court?

A: Not a good idea. (consider this as a last option) why? ask around!

3. Q: Waiting for Canadian Citizenship? 2nd part not clear, keep money or baby?

A: - you can take your child (birth certificate or paper indicate that you r her farther) to Canadian Embassy-Bangkok to get her Canadian passport. How? call your embassy! This can be your first move.

and/ or - you can take your child + you + your Gf & ID + (birth certificate or paper indicate that you r her father) to Foreign Affairs to get your girl Thai passport and your Gf (if you want to)

4. Q: What can you do? "I feel i have a right to acesse to my daughter. and dont want to have these problems....."

Is this a statement?

May i know,

1. how old you are you? do you own a house in Canada?

​2. what is you plan with the baby? you want to take her to Canada alone or with your Gf? or do you want to keep your baby here with your Gf+grandma in Thailand and send monthly support money but asking a rights to see/access her every time you are coming to Thailand?

3. what is you situation/relationship w/ you Gf, now? problem, separated? why wouldn't you take your Gf+baby to live with you in Canada as a family?

4. where were you when baby was born? if you care so much abt your baby...

5. do you really know what do you want apart from feeling sad/bad seeing your baby lives improper environment and able to access to you baby? if that so, I can tell you- your baby is going to survive with or without you, it may not exactly the way you would want to.

About the Grandma @ Surin...

6. Greed? I don't know. but if she is... it's very easy to deal with these type of people. just a little tricky one!

... ask yourself again and plan thoroughly. having a baby without a plan it wasn't a great idea from the first place!

sorry if it's too harsh for the opinion expressing.

Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to great things. -Maya

[dave111223]

I have a 22 year old son named Josh whos mother died two days after his birth... So YES I know what it takes to take care of a baby all alone and then some.... Tabbys mother and i talked 6 weeks before i came here to arrange for me to spend time with her....We made an agreement about when to come and what I would pay and how much time i would have.... As for Surin i want it to be a choice not a demand....

I will be leaving to go there tonight as we all know its just for show towards the Grandmother and Grandfather saving face in their town that there daughter did them right ... And I will be the entertainment....But i dont care if iam, I just care Tabby....

When im there i will get a better idea about how my Daughter is taken care of.... I already explained a bit to Tabbys mother about us making an agreement... Need to do it in slow easy steps with the Thais..... Their like 5 year olds sometimes.....

So in the past you were mister sleepless-in-Seattle-single-super-dad? Now all of a sudden you are no-show-for-6-month-skint-but-demanding-access-dad....quite a transformation?

[tabbyismylife]

I have a 22 year old son named Josh whos mother died two days after his birth... So YES I know what it takes to take care of a baby all alone and then some.... Tabbys mother and i talked 6 weeks before i came here to arrange for me to spend time with her....We made an agreement about when to come and what I would pay and how much time i would have.... As for Surin i want it to be a choice not a demand....

I will be leaving to go there tonight as we all know its just for show towards the Grandmother and Grandfather saving face in their town that there daughter did them right ... And I will be the entertainment....But i dont care if iam, I just care Tabby....

When im there i will get a better idea about how my Daughter is taken care of.... I already explained a bit to Tabbys mother about us making an agreement... Need to do it in slow easy steps with the Thais..... Their like 5 year olds sometimes.....

So in the past you were mister sleepless-in-Seattle-single-super-dad? Now all of a sudden you are no-show-for-6-month-skint-but-demanding-access-dad....quite a transformation?

Show the respect and read what i said in my first address... when Tabbys mother was pregnat i was sick in Canada... I wasnt able to work ....And i did give her money... I didnt just abandon her or Tabby.... I got a clean bill of health in January and went back to work in Febuary.... This was the first chance i had to come to thailand.... You sound like just an angry thai who got hurt in the past.... I hope you can some day get over it and move on.....

[tabbyismylife]

No comment about my suggestion ... ???

Sorry i havent writen a reply yet....give me a chance to take it all in....

[tabbyismylife]

Hi Michael,

...take it easy. One thing you should know that there is a way to solve this problem. But whatever way, you cannot have it done within this trip!

1. Q: 10K is enough?

A: Far from enough.

2. Q: Thai court?

A: Not a good idea. (consider this as a last option) why? ask around!

3. Q: Waiting for Canadian Citizenship? 2nd part not clear, keep money or baby?

A: - you can take your child (birth certificate or paper indicate that you r her farther) to Canadian Embassy-Bangkok to get her Canadian passport. How? call your embassy! This can be your first move.

and/ or - you can take your child + you + your Gf & ID + (birth certificate or paper indicate that you r her father) to Foreign Affairs to get your girl Thai passport and your Gf (if you want to)

4. Q: What can you do? "I feel i have a right to acesse to my daughter. and dont want to have these problems....."

Is this a statement?

May i know,

1. how old you are you? do you own a house in Canada?

​2. what is you plan with the baby? you want to take her to Canada alone or with your Gf? or do you want to keep your baby here with your Gf+grandma in Thailand and send monthly support money but asking a rights to see/access her every time you are coming to Thailand?

3. what is you situation/relationship w/ you Gf, now? problem, separated? why wouldn't you take your Gf+baby to live with you in Canada as a family?

4. where were you when baby was born? if you care so much abt your baby...

5. do you really know what do you want apart from feeling sad/bad seeing your baby lives improper environment and able to access to you baby? if that so, I can tell you- your baby is going to survive with or without you, it may not exactly the way you would want to.

About the Grandma @ Surin...

6. Greed? I don't know. but if she is... it's very easy to deal with these type of people. just a little tricky one!

... ask yourself again and plan thoroughly. having a baby without a plan it wasn't a great idea from the first place!

sorry if it's too harsh for the opinion expressing.

Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to great things. -Maya

As i said to the other person give a day to reply to your sugestions

[tabbyismylife]

Im leaving tonight to Surin... to see whats up.... All of you have geat questions and advise.... I thank you for it all... Please give me a chance to see and understand more of whats going on.... As MAYA said , nothing will be solved on this trip.... And to MAYA was yor answer that 10000b was not enough? And if so why? I will answer your questions too DAVID just give me some more time please....

Thanks all Michael

[David48]

<snip> I will answer your questions too DAVID just give me some more time please....

Thanks all Michael

Mate .. no need to answer me.

I was just giving you some food for thought.

Of course I am curious to know what action you took and what the result was.

But for now direct your time and energies into resolving your peoblem and spending time with Tabby and the Family.

Good Luck ...

[Satcommlee]

Good luck with everything mate.

You know, so many would run a mile from this sort of responsibility.

Hats off to you..

[ozzieovaseas]

One suggestion would be to reduce the support payments now to something more reasonable.

I’ll defer to others for what that amount should be for Child support. The Thai courts set a standard figure and I’m sure it’s way less then 10,000 Baht a month.

As Mario2008 points out above, some (entire) Thai families have a household budget of 10,000 Baht!

In a phone call (don’t put it in writing) indicate to Tabby’s mother that the support will be raised to a higher figure (and I suggest not actually mentioning one at this stage because no amount of money will be deemed to be enough) once you are legally recognised as Tabby’s father.

Now I know that this strategy is maybe a little controversial and I’m sure others will comment on the pros and cons with it.

Just don’t give into demands or crying on the phone … be strong and gain respect and when the timing is right … be supportive, generously (for Thailand) supportive.

But until that time is right, ‘keep your powder dry’ … timing is everything.

You're spot in with your assessment here, especially when you say..

and I suggest not actually mentioning one at this stage because no amount of money will be deemed to be enough)

The words "these people live in a different world" is the understatement of the world as far as the OP should be concerned.

You mention various figures, 10k per month ect, but as others (and them being mods) have stated, this is big money in Surin and your setting the bar this high now is really bad news and opens you up for exploitation, pure and simple.

Maybe your going to Surin could have been the best thing possible, at least then you would see how these people live in the small villages. Its an eye opener for sure as if you had of gone you would have realized how far money stretches.

For anyone bringing up a child in Surin, and for those mothers in Bangkok that send home money for the upkeep of children, it's usually around the figure of 3,000 baht a month per child, although of course those prices do rise as the child gets older and progresses in schooling.

Don't be duped to start off with, or it will never end, you will end up being nothing more than a walking mug paycheck.

Also realise that many Thai fathers who actually lived with and married these women do a runner and have no qualms about ditching their responsibilities...then farangs come along on their white horses, look after those kids, buy houses in good faith thinking it will all be appreciated....

and then guess what comes next...

you are warned!

[meatboy]

i am a bit late coming in to this topic but here's my two penneth,you[op] seem very naive about los and its ways i respect your concern regarding the baby but there are thousands if not millions of farangs who have been caught out this way of providing a better living for parents,the so called brother is and proberly her husband or boy freind i have 30yrs.exp.with what goes on in los,i have first hand exp.with tgs.living with husbands and spending their time with farangs,how did you manage to stay eight months in los.you need to take into account what has been told you already[good advice] you also need to read up all whats in the tvs.forums then mayby till its confirmed that you are the father stop being blind to what is happening.the money you are paying,is like a money tree growing in your so called grandmothers home,and you also said your ex.only earns 2000bht.per month i can only asume she missed a 0.so dont let your heart rule your brain,good luck and when everything is sorted come back and tell us the outcome what ever it is.