Labour Government’s Bold Claim to “honesty with voters” Has Unraveled Quickly

[JohnAllan]

Money talks in Thailand,no licence,so not insured,left the scene of the accident (but it's not hit and run because the they did not intend to escape). Three years in jail or 6000 baht fine, I wonder which one he'll have?.

There is nothing that says the car wasn't insured. It actually states they intend to charge him with fleeing the scene (hit & run). Facing 3-years and/or a fine is actually not all that different than consequences you'll find in the west for adults. In many places this kid would still not be considered an adult.

Technically, if he had no driving licence, no permission to drive a car that wasn't registered to him, or a combination of the two, the insurance is null and void.

And 17 is the legal driving age in the UK, where fines, if they were even considered for something this serious, would be considerably greater than GBP120.

[OzMick]

When is reality going to kick-in with fines, in this case, a farcical B6,000 vs a 3-year prison sentence?

That was "and/or" so he could get both. But with the BIB making conciliatory noises and downplaying the attempt to hide the crime, he and granny will cut a deal where they pay the injured a slab of cash, apologise nicely and walk away. From personal experience, the BIB will take a 10% organising fee.

In other words, money can turn a criminal case into a civil case. In most countries this would be considered corruption.

In a similar case, a big gold Merc came through a give way sign and my friend riding a 750cc bike t-boned it and was killed. His wife settled for B60000 plus repair of the bike. Somehow i think he would have thought he was worth more than that.

[Nisa]

Money talks in Thailand,no licence,so not insured,left the scene of the accident (but it's not hit and run because the they did not intend to escape). Three years in jail or 6000 baht fine, I wonder which one he'll have?.

There is nothing that says the car wasn't insured. It actually states they intend to charge him with fleeing the scene (hit & run). Facing 3-years and/or a fine is actually not all that different than consequences you'll find in the west for adults. In many places this kid would still not be considered an adult.

Technically, if he had no driving licence, no permission to drive a car that wasn't registered to him, or a combination of the two, the insurance is null and void.

Do you really believe if somebody (adult or minor) steals your car and they crash into another person or vehicle your insurance will not pay the victim? Keep in mind that "auto" insurance is typically on a vehicle and not individual. As for unlicensed drivers, regardless of what it "may" (I am not sure) say in a policy the insurance company pays at least in the numerous incidents I have been involved or had first hand knowledge of in both the US and Thailand.

[Nisa]

Money talks in Thailand,no licence,so not insured,left the scene of the accident (but it's not hit and run because the they did not intend to escape). Three years in jail or 6000 baht fine, I wonder which one he'll have?.

There is nothing that says the car wasn't insured. It actually states they intend to charge him with fleeing the scene (hit & run). Facing 3-years and/or a fine is actually not all that different than consequences you'll find in the west for adults. In many places this kid would still not be considered an adult.

Does your insurance policy cover unlicensed under-age driving? Are you going to tell us that in many countries he's old enough to drive (again) but still claim he has no responsibility as a minor (again), while ignoring that whoever gave him use of the vehicle assumes that responsibility.

Hit and run is ALWAYS in the fault. This is mentioned in every insurance polis. But if the insured party do not claim the assistance from the insurance company (for financial settlement), the insurance company will not keep records of this fact as it is not existing in their data... (no claim)

A hit and run driver is only at fault for hit and run. The same is true if you don't have a license or are drunk. It doesn't automatically make a person responsible for the accident. This is a myth. And I highly doubt any insurance company would put this in their contract because they would be admitting financial responsibility for every accident where one of their insured fed the scene. However, it would seem this all to be a moot points in this case. Unless some extraordinary facts are missing or are wrong in this case, it seems fairly clear this kid was responsible for the accident.

[noitom]

Remove the ability for police to settle cases on their own, as another poster already summed up very simply.Establish a criminal law that applies to everyone. Stand behind it. Take responsibility and be accountable. Very tall orders for Thailand in order to be recognized as an adult country that plays well with others.

[pacovl46]

So, let me get this straight.

He was watching football with friends, probably had a few drinks, then drives at high speed, but doesn't have a drivers license, injures 2 people, <Snip!> off without helping anybody and then has the nerve to ask to postpone his testimony while he's on the run???? &lt;deleted&gt;???!!!

Edited May 29, 2012 by metisdead

[Nisa]

From personal experience, the BIB will take a 10% organising fee.

A heck of a lot less than a lawyer would take

[lee68]

These kinds of incidents are very common in Thailand to Kids of So Called Hi-So Families. This is how the Rich in Thailand take care of there kids, load them will lot of money all the time.

This is nothing New.....Another week or so and we wont hear anything about this incident again....

same as the 16yrd who killed all those people on the Bangkok express-way in the mini bus

[Nisa]

So, let me get this straight.

He was watching football with friends, probably had a few drinks, then drives at high speed, but doesn't have a drivers license, injures 2 people, <Snip!> off without helping anybody and then has the nerve to ask to postpone his testimony while he's on the run???? &lt;deleted&gt;???!!!

Actually, I think 3 or 4 were injured.

[Payboy]

So, let me get this straight.

He was watching football with friends, probably had a few drinks, then drives at high speed, but doesn't have a drivers license, injures 2 people, <Snip!> off without helping anybody and then has the nerve to ask to postpone his testimony while he's on the run???? &lt;deleted&gt;???!!!

Actually, I think 3 or 4 were injured.

And 1 of them is in a coma.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Payboy

[MEL1]

I think it just needs to be very heavily emphasised that the offers of financial payout as opposed to jail terms in Thailand are a complete misdemeanour, in comparison to most other countries of the world, and something needs to be done about it.

3 years in jail or the offer of an alternative of 6,000 Baht fine is ridiculous.

3 years in jail should equate to something like 5 million baht, just for starters. 6,000 is a complete insult to the victim or their family.

A serious legal review of comparisons is needed.

Theft from a house..... 6 months or 300 Baht fine.

It's no wonder those at the top are laughing down at everybody, because whatever they get caught with they just roll out the cash and the corner of the mat is lifted, without report.

Yet, there's nobody in a top position to take any of this on - as they are all in the same boat when it comes to getting their servants to lift the mat.

It stinks thru and thru, and it comes - like diarrhoea - thru your genes too!

-mel.

Edited May 29, 2012 by MEL1

[ratcatcher]

So, let me get this straight.

He was watching football with friends, probably had a few drinks, then drives at high speed, but doesn't have a drivers license, injures 2 people, <Snip!> off without helping anybody and then has the nerve to ask to postpone his testimony while he's on the run???? &lt;deleted&gt;???!!!

Actually, I think 3 or 4 were injured.

And 1 of them is in a coma.

Not sure what the going rate is for comas, must be six figures?

[Payboy]

So, let me get this straight.

He was watching football with friends, probably had a few drinks, then drives at high speed, but doesn't have a drivers license, injures 2 people, <Snip!> off without helping anybody and then has the nerve to ask to postpone his testimony while he's on the run???? &lt;deleted&gt;???!!!

Actually, I think 3 or 4 were injured.

And 1 of them is in a coma.

Not sure what the going rate is for comas, must be six figures?

Maybe grandma will give her a fortune cookie.

[transam]

For some reason this is big news!, its been on Channel 3 morning show the last two days. Today it showed the Mini parked up in the cop station.

Reason, 2 mil baht ride.

[Pattel]

I think half the problem with Thai fines is that when the laws were passed money had a great deal more value. So a 6,000 Baht fine today (which is peanuts) would have been a lot of money 30 years ago, or whenever the law was passed.

[sawadeeken]

Can you believe that occurances similar to this are manipulated by money and BIB more often than you hear about BUT when 'Lady Gaga' mentions Fake Rolex shopping in Thailand, they get indignant. There is a poor girl it critical condition and they want to just buy her off with money and let the young driver walk around freely thinking that 'grandma' can just pay-off his lack of concern for other's pain that he causes.

I hope Gaga (or somebody else) will tweet to the world about Thailands 'way of dealing with' situations like this.......

[osiboy]

1. driving without driving license

2. driving a motorvehicle whilst not being 18 years

3. Causing an accident and fleeing the scene

4. Refusing to assist injured people along the road, not only those from the first accident but particularly those that he hit and seriously injured

5. overspeed (that he admitted)

6. wreckless driving

OK for 6,000 THB and everybody is happy again... Forget the jail sentence if police wants to be happy!

What sort of a police deal is that? Yingluck: your consideration is urgently requested at least if you are serious with what you're preaching! High time to get this power of settling deals amongst parties out of hand of the police. Remember the Porsche Cayenne-cutting-in-two of a young Lao lady studying in Thailand... a Wai and some millions of THB from the culprit's daddy were enough to forget the loss of this lady's life (probably illegal in Thailand).

i read somewhere the loas girls family were paid 200,000b , i think thais lives are a little more expensive as there brains can be used for transplants as they have never been used before so are sold as new on the black market .

Edited May 29, 2012 by osiboy

[Nisa]

I think half the problem with Thai fines is that when the laws were passed money had a great deal more value. So a 6,000 Baht fine today (which is peanuts) would have been a lot of money 30 years ago, or whenever the law was passed.

I don't think it is radically different than other places... did they actually change the minimum wage yet? If not, then 6,000 is what a lot of people make in a month. I mentioned before (but will not provide links to prove or mention the western country to avoid getting off topic) a year in jail in the <snip> often has an and/or $1000 fine. If it is 3 years then it is a $3k fine. So, in comparison it is not all that different in terms of what people make. But agree, I think the fines are probably haven't been increased in some time. One trick they get away with in some places in <snip> is to add court fees. I remember as a kid they used to be like a $5 for every $100 you were fined. Then I went to pay a fine at court (stupid, should have mailed it) to give an explanation and ended up having to get hit with a 150% court fee ... yes it was more than the fine! Not sure if they do that in Thailand or not but I guess it is easier to adjust court fees than continue to change laws penalties which I would imagine needs voting in the legislator.

Bottom line is traffic and basic criminal fines mean little to the rich who usually get away with not having these run ins, in most places. The only way to even get close to imposing fair fines is to base them on a percentage of income.

[tingtong]

Money talks in Thailand,no licence,so not insured,left the scene of the accident (but it's not hit and run because the they did not intend to escape). Three years in jail or 6000 baht fine, I wonder which one he'll have?.

There is nothing that says the car wasn't insured. It actually states they intend to charge him with fleeing the scene (hit & run). Facing 3-years and/or a fine is actually not all that different than consequences you'll find in the west for adults. In many places this kid would still not be considered an adult.

You must be kidding, right??!!

Where on the Western side of Earth you can exchange an up to 3 years jail term to up to 6000THB fine??

That is 2000 baht/year...

Did you read that biz woman was released on a 200.000thb bail?!

so, whick looks like a real number?

Is this unlicenced driver in jail now? NOT!

On bail? NOT EVEN THAT!!

but if he should be in jail, with a decent bail then set to around a few million thb to reflect the seriousness.

Wonder what if he kills both? maybe the fine would be hiked to 10000thb?

a legal loophole for the more equals!!!

just for comaprison, in my country quite recently on well known actor/TV person had an accident, while drunk/under drug. injuries, no death.

had to pay million thb compensations, even that car was insured to personal damages, as well got a 5 months jail, no excuse.

6000thb is nothing in comparison, and that is max. with the price of MIni here, and stupid enough parents to let the kid drive around in such, they have no problem buying their deal, for sure.

[Nisa]

Money talks in Thailand,no licence,so not insured,left the scene of the accident (but it's not hit and run because the they did not intend to escape). Three years in jail or 6000 baht fine, I wonder which one he'll have?.

There is nothing that says the car wasn't insured. It actually states they intend to charge him with fleeing the scene (hit & run). Facing 3-years and/or a fine is actually not all that different than consequences you'll find in the west for adults. In many places this kid would still not be considered an adult.

You must be kidding, right??!!

Where on the Western side of Earth you can exchange an up to 3 years jail term to up to 6000THB fine??

That is 2000 baht/year...

Did you read that biz woman was released on a 200.000thb bail?!

so, whick looks like a real number?

Is this unlicenced driver in jail now? NOT!

On bail? NOT EVEN THAT!!

but if he should be in jail, with a decent bail then set to around a few million thb to reflect the seriousness.

Wonder what if he kills both? maybe the fine would be hiked to 10000thb?

a legal loophole for the more equals!!!

just for comaprison, in my country quite recently on well known actor/TV person had an accident, while drunk/under drug. injuries, no death.

had to pay million thb compensations, even that car was insured to personal damages, as well got a 5 months jail, no excuse.

6000thb is nothing in comparison, and that is max. with the price of MIni here, and stupid enough parents to let the kid drive around in such, they have no problem buying their deal, for sure.

Compensation (what you talk about the actor in your country) is not a fine. 5-months only and you are complaining about a possible 3-year term? Are there many full time employees that make the equivalent of 6,000 baht a month in your country?

I am not going to get into comparing country to country here as the post will just get deleted as off topic but if you check fines in other western countries that are applied as and/or with jail terms you will find 6k baht is not as out of line as you want to believe when compared to average income in those countries compared to Thailand. And to take it a step further, doing time in a Thai jail is probably a heck of lot more hash than doing time in a most western jails.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Nisa

[transam]

Nisa, where have you been. You only show up on Tv when theres a road accident.

[culicine]

When is reality going to kick-in with fines, in this case, a farcical B6,000 vs a 3-year prison sentence?

They are hardly equitable are they....ohh 6000 baht for 3 years in he slammer...I think I'll take the 3 years just for the experience! 500K/1M baht would be more reasonable.

But I think a fairly major civil lawsuit will be heading their way if it can't be settled out of court. As others said, the elder relatives will be punished (through having to pay large sums). It's a sad reality but minors don't normally go to jail in the west to, but rather some kind of reahab/detention centre. Don't see that happening in this case !

[soi41]

Main problem here is distinct tiered society, where people from birth are tought "to know their place". Not only the rural poor, but even the Thai middleclass are given the big wais to anyone they themselves consider of a higher social standing. Remember one of the surviving victims from the minivanaccident (16 year old driver) being interview in his hospitalbed, no hard feelings against the driver whatsoever, no economic claims. All because the girls parents (Na Ayatthaya, as close to blue blood as you get in this country) had found time in their busy schedule to visit him (the victim) in hospital. See that's a good Thai.

With a attitude like that and a police all to willing to make the system survive, it is never going to change. All this in a country where "reconciliation" has been in the headlines for the last couple of months, first they need to teach 65M Thais about equality.

[Nisa]

When is reality going to kick-in with fines, in this case, a farcical B6,000 vs a 3-year prison sentence?

They are hardly equitable are they....ohh 6000 baht for 3 years in he slammer...I think I'll take the 3 years just for the experience! 500K/1M baht would be more reasonable.

But I think a fairly major civil lawsuit will be heading their way if it can't be settled out of court. As others said, the elder relatives will be punished (through having to pay large sums). It's a sad reality but minors don't normally go to jail in the west to, but rather some kind of reahab/detention centre. Don't see that happening in this case !

I'm sure it will be settled out of court. I don't believe there is any real punitive damages offered here and it is basically just real costs of the injuries and not even sure it gets too into things like future earning potential losses. On top of it, the police will likely be involved in terms of negotiating compensation. Just makes little sense for either side to want to lose tons of money to law and court fees and spend years dragging this out. If the kids family has got money then the amount they will need to pay isn't going to hurt them that much ... not even like the cost of medical expenses here are high. Unlike more litigious places, there is slim chance of a victims of an accident here making out .... getting their expenses paid is usually all that happens in positive cases.

[philw]

Main problem here is distinct tiered society, where people from birth are tought "to know their place". Not only the rural poor, but even the Thai middleclass are given the big wais to anyone they themselves consider of a higher social standing. Remember one of the surviving victims from the minivanaccident (16 year old driver) being interview in his hospitalbed, no hard feelings against the driver whatsoever, no economic claims. All because the girls parents (Na Ayatthaya, as close to blue blood as you get in this country) had found time in their busy schedule to visit him (the victim) in hospital. See that's a good Thai.

With a attitude like that and a police all to willing to make the system survive, it is never going to change. All this in a country where "reconciliation" has been in the headlines for the last couple of months, first they need to teach 65M Thais about equality.

And there is little chance of that happening for 2 or 3 generations...

[Nisa]

Main problem here is distinct tiered society, where people from birth are tought "to know their place". Not only the rural poor, but even the Thai middleclass are given the big wais to anyone they themselves consider of a higher social standing. Remember one of the surviving victims from the minivanaccident (16 year old driver) being interview in his hospitalbed, no hard feelings against the driver whatsoever, no economic claims. All because the girls parents (Na Ayatthaya, as close to blue blood as you get in this country) had found time in their busy schedule to visit him (the victim) in hospital. See that's a good Thai.

With a attitude like that and a police all to willing to make the system survive, it is never going to change. All this in a country where "reconciliation" has been in the headlines for the last couple of months, first they need to teach 65M Thais about equality.

I think you are reading too much into a person and culture where it is much more common for people not to take personal an act of somebody else that wasn't intended to be personal. Unlike many people in the west, many Thais are able to understand a person's bad actions may hurt them but that the offender had no intention to hurt them and therefore no reason to hold a grudge or do they feel a need to see that person punished in order to feel justice. I'm sure the victim and his/her family you mentioned above felt grateful there was somebody with the means to compensate them (which they did) and in fact a large reason for the visit was to make initial cash payments to the victims in the hospital.

It is just not the same mentality in many cases here. Somebody bumping you on the street and not an apologizing is generally not meant to be disrespectful or a show of superiority and it is not taken that way. Getting in an accident may cause a person to initially be upset but they soon realize these things happen and the other person didn't mean to harm them even if they were drunk or driving like an idiot ... just no reason to take it personal or be upset but rather more smarter to simply be reasonable and get out of it what you can and move on with life.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Nisa

[OzMick]

When is reality going to kick-in with fines, in this case, a farcical B6,000 vs a 3-year prison sentence?

They are hardly equitable are they....ohh 6000 baht for 3 years in he slammer...I think I'll take the 3 years just for the experience! 500K/1M baht would be more reasonable.

But I think a fairly major civil lawsuit will be heading their way if it can't be settled out of court. As others said, the elder relatives will be punished (through having to pay large sums). It's a sad reality but minors don't normally go to jail in the west to, but rather some kind of reahab/detention centre. Don't see that happening in this case !

I'm sure it will be settled out of court. I don't believe there is any real punitive damages offered here and it is basically just real costs of the injuries and not even sure it gets too into things like future earning potential losses. On top of it, the police will likely be involved in terms of negotiating compensation. Just makes little sense for either side to want to lose tons of money to law and court fees and spend years dragging this out. If the kids family has got money then the amount they will need to pay isn't going to hurt them that much ... not even like the cost of medical expenses here are high. Unlike more litigious places, there is slim chance of a victims of an accident here making out .... getting their expenses paid is usually all that happens in positive cases.

Why should someone who has committed a criminal act be able to buy their way out, with the police taking a commission? One law for the rich, another for the poor - isn't that the definition of corruption?

BTW they are liable for victim compensation anyway!

[Nisa]

When is reality going to kick-in with fines, in this case, a farcical B6,000 vs a 3-year prison sentence?

They are hardly equitable are they....ohh 6000 baht for 3 years in he slammer...I think I'll take the 3 years just for the experience! 500K/1M baht would be more reasonable.

But I think a fairly major civil lawsuit will be heading their way if it can't be settled out of court. As others said, the elder relatives will be punished (through having to pay large sums). It's a sad reality but minors don't normally go to jail in the west to, but rather some kind of reahab/detention centre. Don't see that happening in this case !

I'm sure it will be settled out of court. I don't believe there is any real punitive damages offered here and it is basically just real costs of the injuries and not even sure it gets too into things like future earning potential losses. On top of it, the police will likely be involved in terms of negotiating compensation. Just makes little sense for either side to want to lose tons of money to law and court fees and spend years dragging this out. If the kids family has got money then the amount they will need to pay isn't going to hurt them that much ... not even like the cost of medical expenses here are high. Unlike more litigious places, there is slim chance of a victims of an accident here making out .... getting their expenses paid is usually all that happens in positive cases.

Why should someone who has committed a criminal act be able to buy their way out, with the police taking a commission? One law for the rich, another for the poor - isn't that the definition of corruption?

BTW they are liable for victim compensation anyway!

I don't know, why this happens all across the globe in terms of rich and powerful being able to buy their way out of trouble or why some are able to get paid to facilitate the transaction except that lawyers and police are more experienced dealing with such matters. It is a sad thing that prisons all over the world are most filled with the poorer of society. Corruption or not, it is the way things are done. Personally, I see some positives in having a victim be compensated so quickly and having to pay a small fee to somebody to broker the deal rather than spend years fighting and seeing 33% of your settlement go to the lawyer and another 33% go to doctors and a another huge amount being spent by the plaintiff on their attorneys when that money could have went to the victim. In many instances too, I believe it is great that the victim of a crime can have such influence over the punishment of the perpetrator.

As for your last comment, not sure what you are trying to say or why it needed saying or why it needed saying with an exclamation point.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Nisa

[OzMick]

Main problem here is distinct tiered society, where people from birth are tought "to know their place". Not only the rural poor, but even the Thai middleclass are given the big wais to anyone they themselves consider of a higher social standing. Remember one of the surviving victims from the minivanaccident (16 year old driver) being interview in his hospitalbed, no hard feelings against the driver whatsoever, no economic claims. All because the girls parents (Na Ayatthaya, as close to blue blood as you get in this country) had found time in their busy schedule to visit him (the victim) in hospital. See that's a good Thai.

With a attitude like that and a police all to willing to make the system survive, it is never going to change. All this in a country where "reconciliation" has been in the headlines for the last couple of months, first they need to teach 65M Thais about equality.

I think you are reading too much into a person and culture where it is much more common for people not to take personal an act of somebody else that wasn't mean to be personal. Unlike many people in the west, many Thais are able to understand a person's bad actions may hurt them but that the offender had no intention to hurt them and therefore no reason to hold a grudge or do they feel a need to see that person punished in order to feel justice. I'm sure the victim and his/her family you mentioned above felt grateful there was somebody with the means to compensate them (which they did) and in fact a large reason for the visit was to make initial cash payments to the victims in the hospital.

You know, I tire of this BS. Here comes the hi-so to wai and temporarily offer kreng-jai, so let's forget about their criminally negligent disregard for the safety of others because they are paying for some of the costs their victims incurred, which they are liable for under a civil action anyway.

Give your under-age child a car, let them wreak mayhem on the streets, and if they kill a few peasants, &lt;deleted&gt;, we can buy our way out of it for a few weeks income.

And the police and the lawyers get their cut, so mai pen rai.

And the whole stinking attitude works its way up the line to where the head of the DSI decides that anybody named Shinawatra has no case to answer for anything they decide to do. What do we need judges for when we have bribable police to decide guilt?

[OzMick]

Why should someone who has committed a criminal act be able to buy their way out, with the police taking a commission? One law for the rich, another for the poor - isn't that the definition of corruption?

BTW they are liable for victim compensation anyway!

I don't know, why this happens all across the globe in terms of rich and powerful being able to buy their way out of trouble or why some are able to get paid to facilitate the transaction except that lawyers and police are more experienced dealing with such matters. It is a sad thing that prisons all over the world are most filled with the poorer of society. Corruption or not, it is the way things are done. Personally, I see some positives in having a victim be compensated so quickly and having to pay a small fee to somebody to broker the deal rather than spend years fighting and seeing 33% of your settlement go to the lawyer and another 33% go to doctors and a another huge amount being spent by the plaintiff on their attorneys when that money could have went to the victim. In many instances too, I believe it is great that the victim of a crime can have such influence over the punishment of the perpetrator.

As for your last comment, not sure what you are trying to say or why it needed saying or why it needed saying with an exclamation point.

I'm saying that most of their bribe money would be payable even if they go to jail. So why is paying it enough to escape criminal prosecution?