Yellow Shirt Protests Force House To Adjourn Indefinitely

[mca]

Unlike PAD's opposition, PAD has never burned down the city,

Would you like ketchup with your hyperbole Sir?

[h90]

The mob of again, how depressing, we have had the election and the yellows lost. Now trying to stop the democratically elected parliament from doing their job, disgraceful!

the yellow didn't attend the elections....someone should know before posting such nonsense

[h90]

So in summary again

1. PAD has not broken any law as yet

2. PAD has not been issued with an order to disperse so demonstrating outside of government office is NOT illegal

3. If PAD were to stay, even after the order to disperse was issued, they would be violating the law no more or no less than the government making the order, ie one criminal telling another not to commit crime, so those directions would be nulled.

Unlike PAD's opposition, PAD has never burned down the city, and even when they took over the airport, they did not burn it down, but did help to clean it up

Yes i much prefer to take sides with educated people and people who are able to think, as compared to clueless mob with hardly any brains cells functioning.

Now if you prefer the last one, not much i can do about that

WIth regards number 3 i think the PAD needs to find a way of expressing itself within the law. Their case that this reconciliation bill is simply a transparent attempt at obtaining a get out of jail free pass for Thaksin and chums, dressed up as something noble for the greater good of the country, is a very strong one in my opinion. By breaking the law, the PAD only unnecessarily weaken their case and lose support, as they did before with their airport protests.

if they don't do something a bit extreme the government simply don't care. The PAD can point out that it is only for Thaksin as long as they want. Do you think that would impress the government?

And also not forget the countries police boss is Thaksins brother in law, the Bangkoks police boss is another relative of Thaksin so you'll be better carefully to have a big mob with you when you stress a point against the PM (Thaksins sister)....

[rixalex]

if they don't do something a bit extreme the government simply don't care. The PAD can point out that it is only for Thaksin as long as they want. Do you think that would impress the government?

And also not forget the countries police boss is Thaksins brother in law, the Bangkoks police boss is another relative of Thaksin so you'll be better carefully to have a big mob with you when you stress a point against the PM (Thaksins sister)....

What the PAD are doing now is not what i would call extreme, and despite what some posters here have said, it is within the law (for the moment anyway), but although it is not extreme, it is in my opinion doing the job. It is pointing the spotlight squarely on this bill and making sure the public is fully aware of what the government is up to. For me, that's enough. A pressure group applying pressure. Not a pressure group going on the rampage.

[h90]

if they don't do something a bit extreme the government simply don't care. The PAD can point out that it is only for Thaksin as long as they want. Do you think that would impress the government?

And also not forget the countries police boss is Thaksins brother in law, the Bangkoks police boss is another relative of Thaksin so you'll be better carefully to have a big mob with you when you stress a point against the PM (Thaksins sister)....

What the PAD are doing now is not what i would call extreme, and despite what some posters here have said, it is within the law (for the moment anyway), but although it is not extreme, it is in my opinion doing the job. It is pointing the spotlight squarely on this bill and making sure the public is fully aware of what the government is up to. For me, that's enough. A pressure group applying pressure. Not a pressure group going on the rampage.

yes now. But both sides prepared for big action.....before the court told to wait it looked like bloodshed on Tuesday.

Including the bs from the Reds about sacrificing themself for Yingluck.....

[rixalex]

if they don't do something a bit extreme the government simply don't care. The PAD can point out that it is only for Thaksin as long as they want. Do you think that would impress the government?

And also not forget the countries police boss is Thaksins brother in law, the Bangkoks police boss is another relative of Thaksin so you'll be better carefully to have a big mob with you when you stress a point against the PM (Thaksins sister)....

What the PAD are doing now is not what i would call extreme, and despite what some posters here have said, it is within the law (for the moment anyway), but although it is not extreme, it is in my opinion doing the job. It is pointing the spotlight squarely on this bill and making sure the public is fully aware of what the government is up to. For me, that's enough. A pressure group applying pressure. Not a pressure group going on the rampage.

yes now. But both sides prepared for big action.....before the court told to wait it looked like bloodshed on Tuesday.

Including the bs from the Reds about sacrificing themself for Yingluck.....

Is Thaksin worth more blood being shed? I don't think he is.

[Skywalker69]

The mob of again, how depressing, we have had the election and the yellows lost. Now trying to stop the democratically elected parliament from doing their job, disgraceful!

Doing their job, you must be kidding.

[Skywalker69]

Yep let me spell it out for you as it applies directly to you M-U-P-P-E-T-T

D'oh!

I think you should go back to Sesame Street, at least until your education level is raised enough to spell the words you wish to use to insult the intelligence of others.

And of he went.

It's "off"

Shit.

[Yunla]

I know a hell of a lot of Reds, some of whom went to the Bangkok barricades in 2010, and all passionately believe in their cause. Not a single one was there or voted PTP because they were paid to do so. Where is your proof that PTP bought the election?

Re; those hell of a lot of passionate unbribed redmob that you know well, I hope they kept their free 'Thaksin-as-che-guevara' red bigface T-Shirts that they all wore during their armed uprising in 2010. Because they haven't been given anything else ever since that uprising by Thaksin or his sister.

I don't see the use of the phrase 'at the barricades' to be used as a positive in this case, they were not setting up barricades to oppose despotism or anything of the sort, they were just part of an armed uprising financed and masterminded by a billionaire larcenist, an angry display on the streets where other normal working Thais live and raise children. I don't see any ground-level winners in the 2010 uprising at all, neither the poor low-educated rural people who were ordered to burn 'bangkok to the ground' & 'kill the elites' etc. nor the small businesspeople in Bangkok whos livelihoods were turned upside down for three months and in some cases burned down. Thai should never fight Thai and when a billionaire crook tells you to do so you should tell him to go =*= himself.

What you call 'passionate', I will call gullible and unfortunate, and their gullibility led to over ninety deaths and a great deal of heartbreak across this beautiful city.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Yunla

[mca]

Shit.

It's all good I got caught the same way once mate! All you can do is suck it up right?

Edited June 2, 2012 by mca

[smutcakes]

It is good to see at the current time, that the PAD are being allowed to protest peacefully, which in my mind should never be resisted. What will be more interesting though will be there reaction, should they not get what they want.

As much as people criticize the red shirts for their violence and wrong doings last year, it would be interesting to see how far the yellow shirts would have gone last time should the judiciary not have handed down their ruling. I have no doubt that the yellow shirt mob have their element of armed radicals the same as the red shirts, and should the Government push ahead with their current actions, I am sure these radical violent elements will come to the fore.

In essence i dont think there is any real differnece between the reds and yellow-99.9% of the support of both are non violent, and have genuine grievance, rightly or wrongly- it will just take a certain events to bring that radical element to the foreground.

As for the actual trying to pass the bill. The bill should never be tabled or passed. Thaksin should be locked up with a hell of a lot of other people of both political parties, unfortunetly this will never happen.

[philw]

Yep let me spell it out for you as it applies directly to you M-U-P-P-E-T-T

D'oh!

I think you should go back to Sesame Street, at least until your education level is raised enough to spell the words you wish to use to insult the intelligence of others.

And of he went.

It's "off"

Nice one mca.

[Buchholz]

It is good to see at the current time, that the PAD are being allowed to protest peacefully, which in my mind should never be resisted. What will be more interesting though will be there reaction, should they not get what they want.

As much as people criticize the red shirts for their violence and wrong doings last year, it would be interesting to see how far the yellow shirts would have gone last time should the judiciary not have handed down their ruling. I have no doubt that the yellow shirt mob have their element of armed radicals the same as the red shirts, and should the Government push ahead with their current actions, I am sure these radical violent elements will come to the fore.

In essence i don't think there is any real difference between the reds and yellow-99.9% of the support of both are non violent, and have genuine grievance, rightly or wrongly- it will just take a certain events to bring that radical element to the foreground.

You can't equate the real actions the Reds actually perpetrated with the imagined actions that the Yellows might have done.

That is a very real difference.

As for the actual trying to pass the bill. The bill should never be tabled or passed. Thaksin should be locked up with a hell of a lot of other people of both political parties, unfortunately this will never happen.

Agreed, but also there have been quite a few "will never happens" that have happened over the past 10 years.

.

[smutcakes]

It is good to see at the current time, that the PAD are being allowed to protest peacefully, which in my mind should never be resisted. What will be more interesting though will be there reaction, should they not get what they want.

As much as people criticize the red shirts for their violence and wrong doings last year, it would be interesting to see how far the yellow shirts would have gone last time should the judiciary not have handed down their ruling. I have no doubt that the yellow shirt mob have their element of armed radicals the same as the red shirts, and should the Government push ahead with their current actions, I am sure these radical violent elements will come to the fore.

In essence i don't think there is any real difference between the reds and yellow-99.9% of the support of both are non violent, and have genuine grievance, rightly or wrongly- it will just take a certain events to bring that radical element to the foreground.

You can't equate the real actions the Reds actually perpetrated with the imagined actions that the Yellows might have done.

That is a very real difference.

As for the actual trying to pass the bill. The bill should never be tabled or passed. Thaksin should be locked up with a hell of a lot of other people of both political parties, unfortunately this will never happen.

Agreed, but also there have been quite a few "will never happens" that have happened over the past 10 years.

.

Agreed, but how far back do you go. Corruption, abuse of power etc is not a new thing in Thailand or anywhere else, and was certainly prevalent well before the last 10 years. The only thing that has happened is the media, general awareness, internet etc has made it easier to highlight.

[Buchholz]

Blocking streets and preventing government officials from entering a government building and doing their job is against the law. Were you unclear on that?

its called DEMONSTRATION,

Did they physically restraint any official from entering?

From the news story that started this thread:

""I have cancelled the deliberation on the reconciliation bill indefinitely to ease division and restore the atmosphere of harmony," Mr Somsak told reporters.

The House speaker made the announcement as protesters from the People's Alliance for Democracy--the yellow shirts -- and the multi-coloured group joined forces to block a main road that lead to the only entrance of parliament since early morning.

Mr Somsak earlier called for the House to reconvene at 1.30pm only to cancel it shortly afterward when 20 police vans carrying ruling Pheu Thai party MPs from party headquarters were unable to access the parliament due to the protesters' blockade."

Clearly the roads were physically blocked. You can argue that the MP's could have left the vans and walked to Parliament, but one could also argue that they wouldn't have been safe in attempting this. Is this kind of activity legal in any country?

Precisely what the redshirts were doing for two months while blocking Rachaprasong.

in other road blocking news today...

Frustrated flood victims block road

Around 200 angry residents of numerous Nonthaburi housing estates frustrated over insufficient flood damage payments yesterday blocked a main road in the province for three hours, causing heavy traffic congestion along a 10 kilometre section.

Among their complaints was the payment of differing rates of compensation. They said the owners of houses located next to each other received amounts of Bt4,600 and Bt10,200. They accused Bang Yai municipality and the local tambon administrative organisation of distributing the money unfairly, and demanded a probe into their decisions.

The residents refused to talk with lower-level officials and insisted on meeting provincial Governor Aduldej Watcharasin, who showed up after three hours and spent another 30 minutes convincing them to disperse after making a pledge to look into the matter.

-- The Nation 2012-06-02

[gand]

All this pain, all this suffering, all this death and destruction for one man's ego? for one family's greed? for one family's hunger for power and dictatorship over Thailand? Please, say it isn't so.

[Buchholz]

It is good to see at the current time, that the PAD are being allowed to protest peacefully, which in my mind should never be resisted. What will be more interesting though will be there reaction, should they not get what they want.

As much as people criticize the red shirts for their violence and wrong doings last year, it would be interesting to see how far the yellow shirts would have gone last time should the judiciary not have handed down their ruling. I have no doubt that the yellow shirt mob have their element of armed radicals the same as the red shirts, and should the Government push ahead with their current actions, I am sure these radical violent elements will come to the fore.

In essence i don't think there is any real difference between the reds and yellow-99.9% of the support of both are non violent, and have genuine grievance, rightly or wrongly- it will just take a certain events to bring that radical element to the foreground.

You can't equate the real actions the Reds actually perpetrated with the imagined actions that the Yellows might have done.

That is a very real difference.

As for the actual trying to pass the bill. The bill should never be tabled or passed. Thaksin should be locked up with a hell of a lot of other people of both political parties, unfortunately this will never happen.

Agreed, but also there have been quite a few "will never happens" that have happened over the past 10 years.

.

Agreed, but how far back do you go. Corruption, abuse of power etc is not a new thing in Thailand or anywhere else, and was certainly prevalent well before the last 10 years. The only thing that has happened is the media, general awareness, internet etc has made it easier to highlight.

I just meant that over the past so many years, a number of things have occurred that many thought at the time would never happen, eg. from Thaksin dissolving Parliament shortly after being re-elected to Sonthi writing a reconciliation bill for the benefit of Thaksin.

One can't ever discount the "huh, wha?" factor in this topsy-turvy roller coaster of Thai politics.

.

[TeddyFlyfisherDavis]

Exile just sounds better...

[Moruya]

PTP

How I miss those PG Tips adverts

[heybruce]

Nope, I don't see it. I wrote: "When protesters create a potentially unsafe situation that requires police to set up road blocks, then the protesters are responsible for the road blocks not the police." and you wrote "Currently police to set up road blocks because of a potentially unsafe situation." I specifically assign responsibility to the protesters, regardless of who is demonstrating, why, and how large their numbers. That seems implied in your statement but is not explicitly stated. Is that where we differ?

Or do you have it in your head that I'm defending the red shirts? I'm not, I'm defending the democratic process, and pointing out that the actions of the yellow shirts are contrary to this process. That's probably because the yellow shirts have been losing elections for twenty years. If the red shirts start losing elections maybe they'll start taking actions contrary to the democratic process. Then I'll post comments critical of them.

Finally, I know the democratic process is imperfect in Thailand and everywhere else. I still prefer it to any alternative.

Actually, i think what you are doing is nit-picking at minor civil disobedience being some huge threat to democracy, when actually the threat is abuse of power by those in office. This bill, supposedly as a secondary effect, will have a huge benefit to the PM, her family and members of the government. That is a major conflict of interest which can only be explained if the supposed primary effect is guaranteed to work.

As at the moment it is having exactly the opposite effect, with the police and military are mobilising quietly expecting civil strife.

So why persist? And why do you concentrate on a minor symptom rather than the deadly disease?

I see, you are pro-yellow shirt and want to make this a red shirt-yellow shirt debate. I decline, I find indefensible flaws on both sides I also won't debate on the merits and flaws of the reconciliation bill, that's the government's job. Too bad they aren't allowed to do it.

Unlike you, I don't believe that preventing the government from doing it's job is a minor symptom, and I don't see the current government as a deadly disease. But as you wrote, why persist? You are clearly far more emotional than rational on this subject, so debate is futile.

[whybother]

I see, you are pro-yellow shirt and want to make this a red shirt-yellow shirt debate. I decline, I find indefensible flaws on both sides I also won't debate on the merits and flaws of the reconciliation bill, that's the government's job. Too bad they aren't allowed to do it.

Unlike you, I don't believe that preventing the government from doing it's job is a minor symptom, and I don't see the current government as a deadly disease. But as you wrote, why persist? You are clearly far more emotional than rational on this subject, so debate is futile.

Except the government don't want to discuss the flaws and merits of this bill. They just want to get it passed.

[heybruce]

So in summary:

1. You refuse to concede that the protesters, by creating the need for road blocks, are responsible for the police road blocks.

2. You refuse to concede that there is anything wrong with blocking access to a government building and preventing a democratically elected government from doing its job. (Yeah, I know, only 48% of the vote, the largest portion by a considerable margin and larger than the winners in many democratically elected governments).

3. Your words from earlier; " It is only too bad that the PAD is forced into positions where they have to break the law", which seem sympathetic to illegal PAD activities, aren't really. Are they some kind of subtle condemnation?

So in summary again

1. PAD has not broken any law as yet Really? It's legal to prevent ministers from doing their job?

2. PAD has not been issued with an order to disperse so demonstrating outside of government office is NOT illegal Demonstrating was not illegal. Blocking access was illegal, whether an order was issued or not.

3. If PAD were to stay, even after the order to disperse was issued, they would be violating the law no more or no less than the government making the order, ie one criminal telling another not to commit crime, so those directions would be nulled. What qualifies you to pronounce this government "criminal"? And have you really considered the consequences if people felt they only had to obey the law when they approved of the government enforcing the law?

Unlike PAD's opposition, PAD has never burned down the city, and even when they took over the airport, they did not burn it down, but did help to clean it up

Yes i much prefer to take sides with educated people and people who are able to think, as compared to clueless mob with hardly any brains cells functioning.

Now if you prefer the last one, not much i can do about that

Yeah, don't you hate those uneducated buffaloes Clamoring for better schools, among other things, instead of just trusting the traditional elites to take care of them.

Much better to be with the elite. Too bad somebody had the horrible idea of introducing democracy to Thailand. Now the masses have really taken to it, are voting for candidates promising to further their interests, and expecting the governments they elect to be allowed to govern. Terrible isn't it?

Edited June 2, 2012 by heybruce

[OzMick]

Nope, I don't see it. I wrote: "When protesters create a potentially unsafe situation that requires police to set up road blocks, then the protesters are responsible for the road blocks not the police." and you wrote "Currently police to set up road blocks because of a potentially unsafe situation." I specifically assign responsibility to the protesters, regardless of who is demonstrating, why, and how large their numbers. That seems implied in your statement but is not explicitly stated. Is that where we differ?

Or do you have it in your head that I'm defending the red shirts? I'm not, I'm defending the democratic process, and pointing out that the actions of the yellow shirts are contrary to this process. That's probably because the yellow shirts have been losing elections for twenty years. If the red shirts start losing elections maybe they'll start taking actions contrary to the democratic process. Then I'll post comments critical of them.

Finally, I know the democratic process is imperfect in Thailand and everywhere else. I still prefer it to any alternative.

Actually, i think what you are doing is nit-picking at minor civil disobedience being some huge threat to democracy, when actually the threat is abuse of power by those in office. This bill, supposedly as a secondary effect, will have a huge benefit to the PM, her family and members of the government. That is a major conflict of interest which can only be explained if the supposed primary effect is guaranteed to work.

As at the moment it is having exactly the opposite effect, with the police and military are mobilising quietly expecting civil strife.

So why persist? And why do you concentrate on a minor symptom rather than the deadly disease?

I see, you are pro-yellow shirt and want to make this a red shirt-yellow shirt debate. I decline, I find indefensible flaws on both sides I also won't debate on the merits and flaws of the reconciliation bill, that's the government's job. Too bad they aren't allowed to do it.

Unlike you, I don't believe that preventing the government from doing it's job is a minor symptom, and I don't see the current government as a deadly disease. But as you wrote, why persist? You are clearly far more emotional than rational on this subject, so debate is futile.

I am not a pro-yellow shirt, I am anti-corruption and happen to believe the PAD are quite correct on this occasion.

You won't debate this bill because you CAN'T advocate a piece of self-serving legislation saddled with huge conflict of interest problems. The job of the government is running the country, a task they have abandoned to pursue charter change and white-washing of their leader, a man with a history of corrupt activity who they wish to bring back to power, and who has stated he intends to rule for 20 years.

But, hey Bruce, what's that compared to blocking a street?

Debate is only futile when you run out of argument.

[OzMick]

BTW if it's the governments job to defend the bill, why is it that their leader hasn't bothered to read it? Plausible deniability?

[OzMick]

Conflict of Interest :

A term used to describe the situation in which a public official who, contrary to the obligation and absolute duty to act for the benefit of the public, exploits the relationship for personal benefit, typically pecuniary.

As in B900 million, and B46 billion for her brother. Not to mention Thaksin and various PTP MPs not facing a court on terrorism charges.

[OzMick]

So in summary:

1. You refuse to concede that the protesters, by creating the need for road blocks, are responsible for the police road blocks.

2. You refuse to concede that there is anything wrong with blocking access to a government building and preventing a democratically elected government from doing its job. (Yeah, I know, only 48% of the vote, the largest portion by a considerable margin and larger than the winners in many democratically elected governments).

3. Your words from earlier; " It is only too bad that the PAD is forced into positions where they have to break the law", which seem sympathetic to illegal PAD activities, aren't really. Are they some kind of subtle condemnation?

So in summary again

1. PAD has not broken any law as yet Really? It's legal to prevent ministers from doing their job?

2. PAD has not been issued with an order to disperse so demonstrating outside of government office is NOT illegal Demonstrating was not illegal. Blocking access was illegal, whether an order was issued or not.

3. If PAD were to stay, even after the order to disperse was issued, they would be violating the law no more or no less than the government making the order, ie one criminal telling another not to commit crime, so those directions would be nulled. What qualifies you to pronounce this government "criminal"? And have you really considered the consequences if people felt they only had to obey the law when they approved of the government enforcing the law?

Unlike PAD's opposition, PAD has never burned down the city, and even when they took over the airport, they did not burn it down, but did help to clean it up

Yes i much prefer to take sides with educated people and people who are able to think, as compared to clueless mob with hardly any brains cells functioning.

Now if you prefer the last one, not much i can do about that

Yeah, don't you hate those uneducated buffaloes Clamoring for better schools, among other things, instead of just trusting the traditional elites to take care of them.

Much better to be with the elite. Too bad somebody had the horrible idea of introducing democracy to Thailand. Now the masses have really taken to it, are voting for candidates promising to further their interests, and expecting the governments they elect to be allowed to govern. Terrible isn't it?

What a crock! This bill will give back B46 billion to Thaksin that WON'T be spent on better schools, among other things. Thaksin governments have been in power for the best part of the last 10 years,what has improved in Thai schools - SFA.

Where were you for the last 10 years while I was raising my children and putting them through this bloody awful education system?

[volk666]

PTP isn't promising people better schools, quite the opposite - they promised one tablet per child instead, which was diluted to one tablet for one child in ten.

Also the current education minister believes that rich people paying tea money for admissions deserve better schools, not the kids with better potential.

Edited June 2, 2012 by volk666

[volk666]

The version of the bill submitted by the red shirts doesn't give any concessions to the military for 2010. It gives amnesty only to the reds themselves.

Also no one knows what kind of relationship exists between Sonthi and Thaksin at the moment.

Also Abhisit once proposed to give amnesty to everyone except him, Suthep, and Thaksin. This proposal was no included in any of the four versions of the bill, and no, it's not because they desperately want to exonerate Abhisit and Suthep.

[Skywalker69]

Conflict of Interest :

A term used to describe the situation in which a public official who, contrary to the obligation and absolute duty to act for the benefit of the public, exploits the relationship for personal benefit, typically pecuniary.

As in B900 million, and B46 billion for her brother. Not to mention Thaksin and various PTP MPs not facing a court on terrorism charges.

[Skywalker69]

All this pain, all this suffering, all this death and destruction for one man's ego? for one family's greed? for one family's hunger for power and dictatorship over Thailand? Please, say it isn't so.

Sorry to say but it is so. The Earth could/should have been a paradise to live on. But through greed , hunger for money and power we make it hell.