Red Shirts Told To Fight 'Attempts To Unseat Govt'

[smutcakes]

well the army elected to not run the country and installed what I would regard as a well educated prime minister and government who then proceeded to put in place measures that could create a lasting solid democratic base only to have the next elected government try to unravel to good work

I agree entirely, Abhisit was not given enough time to either make the progress he wanted to nor to be judged by his longterm performance as leader. He set-up several long-term infrastructure plans with heavy investment to improve the longterm outlook for the poorest, however he was then removed from office. He was trying to legislate heavily against corruption, while obviously working inside a system that is saturated in corruption, including members of his own party. Corruption-free democracy is not a IKEA Flatpack that you can take home and put together in a afternoon. I see Abhisit and the DP as not perfect but the best option on the table currently and the best option of the last decade.

IMO Abhisit was facing in the right direction and taking the first few faltering steps in that direction when he was voted out. The current PM is facing the wrong direction, has been walking purposefully backwards for over six months, and this week tried to sprint backwards.

I agree about Abhisit, but at the end of the day, they had the election and the people voted against re-instating Abhisit and the Democrats. We can criticize as much as we like, but it wont change anything.

If the people have made a mistake they will learn in time and next time vote the opposite way accordingly. I dont think the way forward is to get to the situation where the army just keep removing the government and istalling another one, even if it is better. This will just increase the resentment. In time people will see which party is the best for them, and vote accordingly. We cannot keep trying to force parties on people, they need to see their mistakes and change.

[OzMick]

Cannon Fodder, it's time to report for duty.

Bring your granny - you could be B7.75 million richer!

[OzMick]

well the army elected to not run the country and installed what I would regard as a well educated prime minister and government who then proceeded to put in place measures that could create a lasting solid democratic base only to have the next elected government try to unravel to good work

I agree entirely, Abhisit was not given enough time to either make the progress he wanted to, nor to be judged on his longterm performance as leader. He set-up several longterm infrastructure plans with heavy investment to improve the longterm outlook for the poorest, however he was then removed from office. He was trying to legislate heavily against corruption, while obviously working inside a system that is saturated in corruption, including members of his own party. Corruption-free democracy is not a IKEA Flatpack that you can take home and put together in a afternoon. I see Abhisit and the DP as not perfect but the best option on the table currently and the best option of the last decade.

IMO Abhisit was facing in the right direction and taking the first few faltering steps in that direction when he was voted out. The current PM is facing the wrong direction, has been walking purposefully backwards for over six months, and this week tried to sprint backwards.

Ummm........if he's facing the wrong direction and walking backwards, he's going in the RIGHT direction.

[drdoom6996]

If the stupid PTP politicians would focus on managing the country, rather than whitewashing Thaksin - they could serve in office for a long long time to come.

But then, of course, that doesn't help Thaksin, so business as usual. Murder, Mayhem, and Mystery,

+1

[drdoom6996]

In George Orwells book 1984, Big Brother spoke to the people via vidio link. He controled the people's hearts and minds that way.

Now the book is being used to control the Red Shirt people and we know who BIG BROTHER is.

He has told his supporters, that if people do not support us thay are against us they must be put down.

1984, is now 2012.

+1

[Yunla]

Ummm........if he's facing the wrong direction and walking backwards, he's going in the RIGHT direction.

Not so, and I realise you are being pedantic for the sake of it. If I define "backwards" in terms of political progress, and am using the analogy of walking / sprinting of a single individual to represent a nation moving backwards/ forwards socially and politically, you could just as easily criticise my post for saying a nation can turn around and walk when it is a landmass. I meant that the current leader Yingluck ("she" not a he as you inaccurately said) is moving the country backwards into autocratic unaccountable mega-corruption. I didn't spell all this out because making analogies is a basic skill in sociology and other discourses.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Yunla

[Valentine]

well the army elected to not run the country and installed what I would regard as a well educated prime minister and government who then proceeded to put in place measures that could create a lasting solid democratic base only to have the next elected government try to unravel to good work

I agree entirely, Abhisit was not given enough time to either make the progress he wanted to nor to be judged by his longterm performance as leader. He set-up several long-term infrastructure plans with heavy investment to improve the longterm outlook for the poorest, however he was then removed from office. He was trying to legislate heavily against corruption, while obviously working inside a system that is saturated in corruption, including members of his own party. Corruption-free democracy is not a IKEA Flatpack that you can take home and put together in a afternoon. I see Abhisit and the DP as not perfect but the best option on the table currently and the best option of the last decade.

IMO Abhisit was facing in the right direction and taking the first few faltering steps in that direction when he was voted out. The current PM is facing the wrong direction, has been walking purposefully backwards for over six months, and this week tried to sprint backwards.

I agree about Abhisit, but at the end of the day, they had the election and the people voted against re-instating Abhisit and the Democrats. We can criticize as much as we like, but it wont change anything.

If the people have made a mistake they will learn in time and next time vote the opposite way accordingly. I dont think the way forward is to get to the situation where the army just keep removing the government and istalling another one, even if it is better. This will just increase the resentment. In time people will see which party is the best for them, and vote accordingly. We cannot keep trying to force parties on people, they need to see their mistakes and change.

The big fear with this scenario is that with all the manipulation. money politics, brainwashing, vote buying etc, is there may not be a next time. The current government is viewing the mandate from the people as a blank cheque to do what they like even though they promised public forums which is another broken promise. Trying to ramrod legislation to absolve guilt from past crimes is hideous. It seems to me now the leaders are still committing treason by exorting people to come out & fight.

[drdoom6996]

what an evil man - all I see here is stiring hate

These are sad and bad times for Thailand, I just hope that my speculation is wrong

and for those that think there is a democracy here - well that is simply not the case, the infratructure is not there to support it and is open to abuse which is exactly what is taking place right now, I don't agree with military intervention but I am glad they are there when it all goes wrong - seems pretty obvious that is what is happening right now - it's all going wrong

so how do you fix it - well you install and interim government and let them place rigid structures to support democracy like a constitution and indipendant judicial system then at some point when it's all in place and provides a good solid base you proceed to the polls - oh wait hasn't that already happened and the new government is trying to dismantle it all - it seems the Thais just don't get it and quite a few on here don't get it either

Do you think Obama should be able to rewrite the Amercan constitution because he doesn't like some of it or it's incriminating his brother....ahem

Thais just haven't grasped the concept of democracy and that is the problem - they think if elected they can do whatever they want and that is dangerous and wrong - they must work within a set of rules and this government is trying to rewrite them to suit their own ends and that is just wrong

YOU and I are on exactly the same page. This is about what Democracy is and how it is being abused here. What would you call less than 5% of the country wanting/demanding the other 95% of the country to blindly follow them or they are against them and will pay at some point in time. 1930's Germany comes to mind almost at once.

[Moruya]

Pee nong,

you carried me across the river

now I must walk up the mountain to preside over this country

you did your task now go back to farm your rice

wait a moment!

Those terrible do-good yellows are back to derail my train

Pee nong, red brothers and sisters

Put your bodies on the line for me once more

I shall be there when the first bullet is fired

[smutcakes]

well the army elected to not run the country and installed what I would regard as a well educated prime minister and government who then proceeded to put in place measures that could create a lasting solid democratic base only to have the next elected government try to unravel to good work

I agree entirely, Abhisit was not given enough time to either make the progress he wanted to nor to be judged by his longterm performance as leader. He set-up several long-term infrastructure plans with heavy investment to improve the longterm outlook for the poorest, however he was then removed from office. He was trying to legislate heavily against corruption, while obviously working inside a system that is saturated in corruption, including members of his own party. Corruption-free democracy is not a IKEA Flatpack that you can take home and put together in a afternoon. I see Abhisit and the DP as not perfect but the best option on the table currently and the best option of the last decade.

IMO Abhisit was facing in the right direction and taking the first few faltering steps in that direction when he was voted out. The current PM is facing the wrong direction, has been walking purposefully backwards for over six months, and this week tried to sprint backwards.

I agree about Abhisit, but at the end of the day, they had the election and the people voted against re-instating Abhisit and the Democrats. We can criticize as much as we like, but it wont change anything.

If the people have made a mistake they will learn in time and next time vote the opposite way accordingly. I dont think the way forward is to get to the situation where the army just keep removing the government and istalling another one, even if it is better. This will just increase the resentment. In time people will see which party is the best for them, and vote accordingly. We cannot keep trying to force parties on people, they need to see their mistakes and change.

The big fear with this scenario is that with all the manipulation. money politics, brainwashing, vote buying etc, is there may not be a next time. The current government is viewing the mandate from the people as a blank cheque to do what they like even though they promised public forums which is another broken promise. Trying to ramrod legislation to absolve guilt from past crimes is hideous. It seems to me now the leaders are still committing treason by exorting people to come out & fight.

I dont disagree with any of this, I just question whether the answer is for the army to come in, govern for a bit and then instill probably a Democrat led or at least heavily influenced Governement, as it simply wont be accepted now, even if Thaksin passed away tomorrow.

[geriatrickid]

And the path to civil war continues.

Hope you got your affairs in order people because it ain't gonna be pretty.

I don't think there's going to be a civil war. I think the path is for those who identify as Red Shirts to come up with a viable party and platform absent of Thaksins agenda and influence. I wish them luck.

The core support is there and it will come when the time is right. Since the start of this "struggle" a large segment of the UDD has been comprised of people that put the need for an elected government ahead of their dislike for Mr. Thaksin. When and if the tipping point arises, the social democrats, and those with a liberal view will split off. When that happens, the PTP support will most likely shrink by around 20%. (My estimate only.) This would reduce the PTP to a minority party and force it to be even more conciliatory to those that withdrew. if it wished to remain in power.

The focus of the Democrats should be attracting this group. The only way that it would be achieved would be through a sharp shift in policy and a willingness to commit the party to honesty and integrity. I don't see that happening, so instead we will be back to a 3or 4 party split with lots of horse trading and long term dysfunction.

[geriatrickid]

well the army elected to not run the country and installed what I would regard as a well educated prime minister and government who then proceeded to put in place measures that could create a lasting solid democratic base only to have the next elected government try to unravel to good work

I agree entirely, Abhisit was not given enough time to either make the progress he wanted to, nor to be judged on his longterm performance as leader. He set-up several longterm infrastructure plans with heavy investment to improve the longterm outlook for the poorest, however he was then removed from office. He was trying to legislate heavily against corruption, while obviously working inside a system that is saturated in corruption, including members of his own party. Corruption-free democracy is not a IKEA Flatpack that you can take home and put together in an afternoon. I see Abhisit and the DP as not perfect but the best option on the table currently and the best option of the last decade.

IMO Abhisit was facing in the right direction and taking the first few faltering steps in that direction when he was voted out. The current PM is facing the wrong direction, has been walking purposefully backwards for over six months, and this week tried to sprint backwards.

He had more than enough time and his period in office was marked by multiple corruption scandals.His long term projects were characterized by multi billion dollar commitments that came without oversight, and checks & balances. He was incapable of asserting himself and does not command the respect of the MPs or party activists, let alone other countries. He is perceived as weak and it shows. If he had control of his party and had party whips instead of fluffies making the decisions, he would have been able to control the mayhem that erupted in the House.

The old guard grows weary of Abhisit's inability to follow advice from those that know parliamentary procedure and that had a strategy to contest the PTP legislation. The younger members are impatient with Abhisit since he can not expand the party base and build support. It is far more likely that the political knives will come out before Abhisit ever is PM again. The only thing saving him now is that no one high profile wants his job because the party is stuck in the mud and going nowhere. When General Prem distances himself from the Democrats, its a sign that the old guard is considering other options, including cutting a deal with the "enemy".

[drdoom6996]

well the army elected to not run the country and installed what I would regard as a well educated prime minister and government who then proceeded to put in place measures that could create a lasting solid democratic base only to have the next elected government try to unravel to good work

I agree entirely, Abhisit was not given enough time to either make the progress he wanted to, nor to be judged on his longterm performance as leader. He set-up several longterm infrastructure plans with heavy investment to improve the longterm outlook for the poorest, however he was then removed from office. He was trying to legislate heavily against corruption, while obviously working inside a system that is saturated in corruption, including members of his own party. Corruption-free democracy is not a IKEA Flatpack that you can take home and put together in a afternoon. I see Abhisit and the DP as not perfect but the best option on the table currently and the best option of the last decade.

IMO Abhisit was facing in the right direction and taking the first few faltering steps in that direction when he was voted out. The current PM is facing the wrong direction, has been walking purposefully backwards for over six months, and this week tried to sprint backwards.

Ummm........if he's facing the wrong direction and walking backwards, he's going in the RIGHT direction.

You just made "A Fruedian Slip". I think he was refering to the current Prime Minister who is a SHE. And not the one you are following in Dubai who is a HE!

Fruedian slip

[drdoom6996]

Ummm........if he's facing the wrong direction and walking backwards, he's going in the RIGHT direction.

Not so, and I realise you are being pedantic for the sake of it. If I define "backwards" in terms of political progress, and am using the analogy of walking / sprinting of a single individual to represent a nation moving backwards/ forwards socially and politically, you could just as easily criticise my post for saying a nation can turn around and walk when it is a landmass. I meant that the current leader Yingluck ("she" not a he as you inaccurately said) is moving the country backwards into autocratic unaccountable mega-corruption. I didn't spell all this out because making analogies is a basic skill in sociology and other discourses.

YES, YES, YES, RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT.

[Yunla]

He had more than enough time and his period in office was marked by multiple corruption scandals.His long term projects were characterized by multi billion dollar commitments that came without oversight, and checks & balances. He was incapable of asserting himself and does not command the respect of the MPs or party activists, let alone other countries. He is perceived as weak and it shows. If he had control of his party and had party whips instead of fluffies making the decisions, he would have been able to control the mayhem that erupted in the House.

The old guard grows weary of Abhisit's inability to follow advice from those that know parliamentary procedure and that had a strategy to contest the PTP legislation. The younger members are impatient with Abhisit since he can not expand the party base and build support. It is far more likely that the political knives will come out before Abhisit ever is PM again. The only thing saving him now is that no one high profile wants his job because the party is stuck in the mud and going nowhere. When General Prem distances himself from the Democrats, its a sign that the old guard is considering other options, including cutting a deal with the "enemy".

I agree with much of this post regarding the influence he no longer has, the enemies he has, and that corruption was in his administration too which I mentioned in my earlier post. My central point was that currently his party and therefor him as leader are the only democratic option on the table. You will notice I was careful to say he and DP are not perfect. I just consider DP a gradual slow-moving and slight improvement for the country, whereas PTP are imo proving disastrous, even catastrophic for this country already and will only get worse if you extrapolate forwards based on their statements and their actions so far.

I have also said before, the best thing would be a whole new generation of politicians and parties that are unconnected with the previous failed corrupt regimes, but we do not have that luxury so imo DP is the only real option today.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Yunla

[lannarebirth]

And the path to civil war continues.

Hope you got your affairs in order people because it ain't gonna be pretty.

I don't think there's going to be a civil war. I think the path is for those who identify as Red Shirts to come up with a viable party and platform absent of Thaksins agenda and influence. I wish them luck.

The core support is there and it will come when the time is right. Since the start of this "struggle" a large segment of the UDD has been comprised of people that put the need for an elected government ahead of their dislike for Mr. Thaksin. When and if the tipping point arises, the social democrats, and those with a liberal view will split off. When that happens, the PTP support will most likely shrink by around 20%. (My estimate only.) This would reduce the PTP to a minority party and force it to be even more conciliatory to those that withdrew. if it wished to remain in power.

The focus of the Democrats should be attracting this group. The only way that it would be achieved would be through a sharp shift in policy and a willingness to commit the party to honesty and integrity. I don't see that happening, so instead we will be back to a 3or 4 party split with lots of horse trading and long term dysfunction.

You know that's one of your first posts ever that I largely agree with.

[maeab]

And the path to civil war continues.

Hope you got your affairs in order people because it ain't gonna be pretty.

Fortunently I don't think it will get that far, as the majority of Thais are fairly apathetic to the hold political issue and have far more important day to day family and work issues to deal with.

For the majority it does not make a blind bit of difference who is in Power, the PTP or the Democrats. As someone esle mentions below, what Thailand really needs is someone with some base line ideas on more equality, transapency coupled with a logical, corruption free, young leader. However any young corruption free leader like this would never get far as they would be cast aside by the current political parties due to the risk of their heads being forced away from the trough.

It is extremely difficult to see a way out of this depressing cycle. It would be nice to think that some of the young Thais who have been educated abroad would come back and try and make a difference, but for the most part the only reason they have had the opportunitu to study abroad is due to the fact they are from wealthy families, and despite how much personally they may want to change a system, they are not going to rock the apple cart so to speak for the entire family. I am waffling now...........

We have one already and he is a good man.

[lungmi]

well the army elected to not run the country and installed what I would regard as a well educated prime minister and government who then proceeded to put in place measures that could create a lasting solid democratic base only to have the next elected government try to unravel to good work

I agree entirely, Abhisit was not given enough time to either make the progress he wanted to, nor to be judged on his longterm performance as leader. He set-up several longterm infrastructure plans with heavy investment to improve the longterm outlook for the poorest, however he was then removed from office. He was trying to legislate heavily against corruption, while obviously working inside a system that is saturated in corruption, including members of his own party. Corruption-free democracy is not a IKEA Flatpack that you can take home and put together in an afternoon. I see Abhisit and the DP as not perfect but the best option on the table currently and the best option of the last decade.

IMO Abhisit was facing in the right direction and taking the first few faltering steps in that direction when he was voted out. The current PM is facing the wrong direction, has been walking purposefully backwards for over six months, and this week tried to sprint backwards.

He had more than enough time and his period in office was marked by multiple corruption scandals.His long term projects were characterized by multi billion dollar commitments that came without oversight, and checks & balances. He was incapable of asserting himself and does not command the respect of the MPs or party activists, let alone other countries. He is perceived as weak and it shows. If he had control of his party and had party whips instead of fluffies making the decisions, he would have been able to control the mayhem that erupted in the House.

The old guard grows weary of Abhisit's inability to follow advice from those that know parliamentary procedure and that had a strategy to contest the PTP legislation. The younger members are impatient with Abhisit since he can not expand the party base and build support. It is far more likely that the political knives will come out before Abhisit ever is PM again. The only thing saving him now is that no one high profile wants his job because the party is stuck in the mud and going nowhere. When General Prem distances himself from the Democrats, its a sign that the old guard is considering other options, including cutting a deal with the "enemy".

The "weakness" of Abhisit (and Chuan Leek Pai) as PM has one reason: Higher ethical standard. Or: not corrupt enough to be PM.

"no one high profile wants his job" - yes, not many politicians have this ethical standard.

[maeab]

what an evil man - all I see here is stiring hate

These are sad and bad times for Thailand, I just hope that my speculation is wrong

and for those that think there is a democracy here - well that is simply not the case, the infratructure is not there to support it and is open to abuse which is exactly what is taking place right now, I don't agree with military intervention but I am glad they are there when it all goes wrong - seems pretty obvious that is what is happening right now - it's all going wrong

so how do you fix it - well you install and interim government and let them place rigid structures to support democracy like a constitution and indipendant judicial system then at some point when it's all in place and provides a good solid base you proceed to the polls - oh wait hasn't that already happened and the new government is trying to dismantle it all - it seems the Thais just don't get it and quite a few on here don't get it either

Do you think Obama should be able to rewrite the Amercan constitution because he doesn't like some of it or it's incriminating his brother....ahem

Thais just haven't grasped the concept of democracy and that is the problem - they think if elected they can do whatever they want and that is dangerous and wrong - they must work within a set of rules and this government is trying to rewrite them to suit their own ends and that is just wrong

YOU and I are on exactly the same page. This is about what Democracy is and how it is being abused here. What would you call less than 5% of the country wanting/demanding the other 95% of the country to blindly follow them or they are against them and will pay at some point in time. 1930's Germany comes to mind almost at once.

I smell a coup and its a very nice smell.

[Roadman]

There is no threat to unseat the Yingluck government by coup. There is however very large mounting opposition from varied educated sections to putting non Royals and one person in particular above the law. Two very different issues. I hope the Constitution Court rules against winding the clock back. There are plenty of more importamt issues than Thaksin's fugitive status.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Roadman

[theajarn]

"Power must belong to the people" says Thaksin. How is this not a case for inciting civil war?

He's basically saying "Even though my dear sister is in charge *cough* *cough*, the Police and Military are useless err... powerless to stop civil disobedience... further more, we just want you red shirts to be the ones to get shot in the head etc etc rather than having the other side pin the blame on the government for ordering 'order' "

Yep, there we have it folks. Thaksin doesn't want to get his government's hands dirty, so he'll send in the mindless lemming to do his bidding (and take the blame) for him.

At least he learned from the previous government.

Though I don't want to say it, but Thais are so .............................. ............................... !!

Edited June 3, 2012 by theajarn

[h90]

"The process of robbing people has begun again," said Thaksin, wearing a red shirt.

THAT is hard to argue against.

Here I really agree with Thaksin......

[h90]

"Power must belong to the people" says Thaksin. How is this not a case for inciting civil war?

He's basically saying "Even though my dear sister is in charge *cough* *cough*, the Police and Military are useless err... powerless to stop civil disobedience... further more, we just want you red shirts to be the ones to get shot in the head etc etc rather than having the other side pin the blame on the government for ordering 'order' "

Yep, there we have it folks. Thaksin doesn't want to get his government's hands dirty, so he'll send in the mindless lemming to do his bidding (and take the blame) for him.

At least he learned from the previous government.

Though I don't want to say it, but Thais are so .............................. ............................... !!

Well the red shirts go there for 500 Baht and listen to it. But I don't think they go to the shooting for 500 Baht.....That will be just a few expensive professionals

[Thaddeus]

And the path to civil war continues.

Hope you got your affairs in order people because it ain't gonna be pretty.

I don't think there's going to be a civil war. I think the path is for those who identify as Red Shirts to come up with a viable party and platform absent of Thaksins agenda and influence. I wish them luck.

The core support is there and it will come when the time is right. Since the start of this "struggle" a large segment of the UDD has been comprised of people that put the need for an elected government ahead of their dislike for Mr. Thaksin. When and if the tipping point arises, the social democrats, and those with a liberal view will split off. When that happens, the PTP support will most likely shrink by around 20%. (My estimate only.) This would reduce the PTP to a minority party and force it to be even more conciliatory to those that withdrew. if it wished to remain in power.

The focus of the Democrats should be attracting this group. The only way that it would be achieved would be through a sharp shift in policy and a willingness to commit the party to honesty and integrity. I don't see that happening, so instead we will be back to a 3or 4 party split with lots of horse trading and long term dysfunction.

You know that's one of your first posts ever that I largely agree with.

Same here, it's a rather odd feeling.

[theajarn]

what an evil man - all I see here is stiring hate

These are sad and bad times for Thailand, I just hope that my speculation is wrong

and for those that think there is a democracy here - well that is simply not the case, the infratructure is not there to support it and is open to abuse which is exactly what is taking place right now, I don't agree with military intervention but I am glad they are there when it all goes wrong - seems pretty obvious that is what is happening right now - it's all going wrong

so how do you fix it - well you install and interim government and let them place rigid structures to support democracy like a constitution and indipendant judicial system then at some point when it's all in place and provides a good solid base you proceed to the polls - oh wait hasn't that already happened and the new government is trying to dismantle it all - it seems the Thais just don't get it and quite a few on here don't get it either

Do you think Obama should be able to rewrite the Amercan constitution because he doesn't like some of it or it's incriminating his brother....ahem

Thais just haven't grasped the concept of democracy and that is the problem - they think if elected they can do whatever they want and that is dangerous and wrong - they must work within a set of rules and this government is trying to rewrite them to suit their own ends and that is just wrong

Smedley, i agree in essence, but is it possible in this country with all the corruption and self serving nature to put an independent judiciary system in place, or given the nature of these people, will they always be corruptable if it is self serving to be so.

Whilst the reasons for the army doing it, could be justified previously, is it not a bit hypocritical on the one hand to lambast the PTP government for seeking to amend the constituition whilst when the army took over in 2006, they did just that?

Agree that it is good to have the army there as a final resort to sought out any real issue which could scale to civil war, but it is not exactly if the army, its generals and its previous history makes it the bastion of fair play and puts it in a knowledgable or proper position to dictate how to run the country.

For those who are just itching to see ANYTHING progress in this country, one might wish that the yellows and reds have at each other. Then something might happen:

a.) The Yinluck government will be blamed for allowing civil unrest when they could have prevented it (by putting a sock in Thaksin's trap)

b.) The red shirt and yellow shirts will have such heavy casualties to consider where they stand in the grand scheme of things

Thaksin has made quite a bet here. He's lucky his sister is going to take the rap for this.

[mca]

Though I don't want to say it, but Thais are so .............................. ............................... !!

Come on. Spit it out.

[gand]

Did TS forget to tell his baby sister?

[prefabs]

Looks like Takson is still a being a thorn in the flesh for everybody. Another phrase for a thorn in the flesh might be a little prick

[OzMick]

And the path to civil war continues.

Hope you got your affairs in order people because it ain't gonna be pretty.

I don't think there's going to be a civil war. I think the path is for those who identify as Red Shirts to come up with a viable party and platform absent of Thaksins agenda and influence. I wish them luck.

The core support is there and it will come when the time is right. Since the start of this "struggle" a large segment of the UDD has been comprised of people that put the need for an elected government ahead of their dislike for Mr. Thaksin. When and if the tipping point arises, the social democrats, and those with a liberal view will split off. When that happens, the PTP support will most likely shrink by around 20%. (My estimate only.) This would reduce the PTP to a minority party and force it to be even more conciliatory to those that withdrew. if it wished to remain in power.

The focus of the Democrats should be attracting this group. The only way that it would be achieved would be through a sharp shift in policy and a willingness to commit the party to honesty and integrity. I don't see that happening, so instead we will be back to a 3or 4 party split with lots of horse trading and long term dysfunction.

When PTP fractures and the Social Democrats and the Liberals split off, what do we call what is left? the National Socialists perhaps.

[miksguevara]

And the path to civil war continues.

Hope you got your affairs in order people because it ain't gonna be pretty.

Fortunently I don't think it will get that far, as the majority of Thais are fairly apathetic to the hold political issue and have far more important day to day family and work issues to deal with.

....

are you sure for the thais I know this is a fairly common topic:to the point where reds dont sociaslise with yellows etc I wouldn't call the majority of thais politically apathetic nowadays....I think this is a misjudgement....