Manchester United

[muckypups]

Interesting from todays Guardian..but they had better be quick with just a few days to go..:

Owen Hargreaves, the player United want to replace Keane in midfield, may be nearer a move to Old Trafford now that Bayern Munich have brought in Holland's Mark van Bommel from Barcelona. United plan to reinstigate negotiations with the German champions to see whether they might be more inclined to sell the England player.

Van Bommel concluded an £8m deal over the weekend, although Bayern say he has been brought to replace Michael Ballack rather than Hargreaves. United, nevertheless, intend to resume talks before Thursday.

United are understood to be willing to pay up to £20m for Hargreaves, who has repeatedly made it clear that he wants a move to Old Trafford and who was an unused substitute in Bayern's scoreless draw against Nuremberg on Saturday.

The possibility of a replacement for Ruud van Nistelrooy being signed by United cannot be discounted either and there were unconfirmed reports in France yesterday that Sir Alex Ferguson had identified David Trezeguet of Juventus as his target.

Agents in Italy have been made aware that Trezeguet is available in the wake of Serie A's match-fixing inquiry and, according to L'Equipe, United and Lyon are among the possible suitors.

Trezeguet.. maybe, but more of a stop gap if it goes through I think..

Oh, and of course the FA are now accusing Fergie of exaggerating Rio's injury..here we go..

[redrus]

why you not keen on him redrus he has a great record and i think he would be excellent for us.

You know when you just get that feeling....? I had it with Djemba x2 and Klebfoot. I know Trez is in a totally different league and, I have also been wrong a few times, I just don't think he's United.

I had also set my heart on Torres , though I still think we should have got Duff too, esp at that price....!

redrus

[nev]

duff was never comming to united no way chelsea will sell any player to us,duff would have been a great buy.

[redrus]

duff was never comming to united no way chelsea will sell any player to us,duff would have been a great buy.

Mate, I think in they're arrogance, they would've.

3 players we should have got on the cheap this summer, 2, I would've loved and 1, only as a gap filler.

Duff, Viera and................., Gallas. All good players, that we should've at least put in offers for....!

redrus

[muckypups]

Spot on there.. Duff would have been a great buy, and Gallas not bad either..

Meanwhile..

Van Bommel lets the cat out of the bag?

"I have left Barcelona because there were not enough guarantees that I would play every week."

"But at Bayern Munich the chances of playing are so much bigger - they told me that with Ballack gone and Hargreaves close to leaving the club."

[muckypups]

Seems I was a little premature with that last post, this from the BBC today:

Hargreaves says Man Utd deal off

Owen Hargreaves has admitted defeat in his bid to join Manchester United, according to his agent.

The England midfielder was keen to leave Bayern Munich for Old Trafford, but the German club have refused to sanction the transfer.

Hargreaves' agent Roman Grill said: "We have to accept there is no way Bayern will allow this transfer to happen.

"His only hope is that if United reamin interested in him the deal could happen at a later date."

United have been chasing Hargreaves and were thought to be willing to pay £17m for the player, who was one of England's few success stories at the World Cup.

But Bayern general manager Uli Hoeness underlined his club's intention to hold on to Hargreaves, even after the arrival of Mark van Bommel.

Hoeness said: "Owen stays - you can bet your house on that. Manchester United will have to plan without him."

It had been thought Van Bommel's move from Barcelona could pave the way for Hargreaves to join Manchester United.

Van Bommel himself was quoted as saying Hargreaves was "close to leaving". But Hoeness again insisted on Monday: "We want to move forward with Mark and Owen. We would be crazy to sign Van Bommel as a replacement for Hargreaves."

Van Bommel has signed a three-year deal, believed to be in the region of £8m, with the German giants after undergoing a medical on Monday.

He is now being seen as a replacement for Germany captain Michael Ballack, who moved to Chelsea earlier in the summer.

But when speaking prior to completing his move to the German club, Van Bommel had been quoted as saying: "I have left Barcelona because there were not enough guarantees that I would play every week.

"At Bayern the chances of playing are bigger, they told me, with Ballack gone and Owen Hargreaves close to leaving the club."

But it now appears Hargreaves, who is under contract until 2010 at Bayern, will have to put on hold a move to the Premiership until at least January.

It could be last minute brinkmanship but I don't think so.. pity really, I quite liked the idea of him joining us.

Another transfer target failure...

[nev]

dodgy dealings by MSI owned by a certain russian.

State_Of_The_Game___Archive___Something_Fishy_About_Tevez_And_Mascherano_To_West_Ham_Deal.htm

[muckypups]

Very interesting post Nev, thanks. I didn't know that..

Makes sense though.. courted by Arsenal and United.. Champions League guaranteed, yet go to West Ham,. Very strange.

Looks like we're going ahead with the squad we've got now.. minus Rossi until January of course..

[Bredbury Blue]

Should be of interest to you reds.

Last night at 8.30 pm on UBC XYTE channel there was an hour programme called '??? survive' about the Munich disaster. It'll be repeated sometime no doubt, check it out.

[redrus]

Cheers Bred, I'll keep my eyes open.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch,....;

David 'Capable Hands' Gill: "We were also offered Mascherano but we didn't want to go for him."

In an interview on BBC Five Live's Sportsweek programme:

"We were never interested in Tevez.

"We were also offered Mascherano but we didn't want to go for him.

"We were offered Mascherano for a significant sum at the start of the summer and also last week on a loan deal.

"We had watched him last season but the manager and his staff didn't want to pursue him.

"While he is clearly a very good player it was decided he wasn't required at the club."

What a crock o <deleted>....!, so we don't want two of the best and most promissing players around then, don't we...., good enough to beat anyone out there are we.....?

redrus

[nev]

to be fair redrus not many soth american players have settled well in the north of england and been a success.

save the money get torres and hargreaves for next season. imho.

[muckypups]

I read that Torres has signed a one year contract extension, making him available for offers from January, and I think we'd really benefit from Hargreaves. Let's hope at least one of these deals can go through.

Meanwhile, I saw this in the Independent:

Liverpool's bid to build a new stadium will take a major step forward on Friday when the city council will recommend leasing part of Stanley Park for a new stadium.

What to call it? Stanley Knife Park, maybe.. or The San Giro..

[redrus]

to be fair redrus not many soth american players have settled well in the north of england and been a success.

save the money get torres and hargreaves for next season. imho.

Fair point nev but, I don't think admitting thatwe were not interested in either is true. Fergie was desperate for signings this summer, its just not right, something is not ringing true.

I would rather have Owen and Torres though so..........

I read that Torres has signed a one year contract extension, making him available for offers from January, and I think we'd really benefit from Hargreaves. Let's hope at least one of these deals can go through.

Meanwhile, I saw this in the Independent:

Liverpool's bid to build a new stadium will take a major step forward on Friday when the city council will recommend leasing part of Stanley Park for a new stadium.

What to call it? Stanley Knife Park, maybe.. or The San Giro..

LOL.

Who cares, as long as we only have to go to the dump once a year oh, and we win....

redrus

[muckypups]

I'd like to think our transfer policy was as refined at this article suggests...

MEN on new English requirements

WHISPER this very carefully north of the border, but Fergie wants his players stamped: ‘Made in England.’

The canny Scot has seen the way the wind is blowing in the UEFA corridors of power and knows home-bred players will soon be at a premium as new restrictions bite.

UEFA have already implemented a rule this season that at least two players on the A list of players on the squad roster that is sent to the European soccer body for the Champions League must be academy trained by the club and two must be academy trained by a club in that association.

By 2009, that will double: so United will need to have four players they have brought through themselves, and another four who have come through the ranks at other English clubs.

It looks as if United’s transfer policy is already taking UEFA’s direction into account.

Having been handicapped in the early 1990s by the ‘foreigner rule’ that arguably cost the 1994 Dream Team a European Cup, United will be at pains to comply and ensure any further possible UEFA directives don’t catch them out.

Whether it’s UEFA red tape or a previous successful blueprint driving Old Trafford’s transfer thoughts, it appears United are going to take on the role of English bulldogs again.

There is already an English flavour about the make-up of Fergie’s United squad.

Old Trafford’s chief executive David Gill has revealed that the Reds did not want the Argentinian World Cup pair Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano – outrageously snatched by West Ham last week.

Even though Tevez and Mascherano have been classed as two of the most promising 22-year-olds in world football, Fergie and his backroom team had concluded after much monitoring that neither of the South Americans fitted into United’s plans for the future.

And one argument for ruling out the Corinthians duo could well be that Ferguson has had his fingers burnt when dabbling in the South American market.

Certainly Fergie’s summer focus has been on the Three Lions.

England World Cup squad member Michael Carrick was captured for £18.6m from Spurs and his midfield colleague in the international set up, Owen Hargreaves, was a well-documented target and still remains top of the United manager’s wish list.

West Ham’s Nigel Reo-Coker was also linked with an Old Trafford switch.

In the same time that United’s South American investments proved so costly, Ferguson’s major English purchases have been value for money.

Rio Ferdinand (£30m) and Wayne Rooney (£30m) are certainly in the credit column.

While United have had their success stories during the glory years with north European buys such as Eric Cantona, Peter Schmeichel, Jaap Stam and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, the backbone has been very much wrapped in a St George’s flag.

That backbone has run from Steve Bruce, Bryan Robson, Gary Pallister, Paul Parker and Paul Ince, through to David Beckham, Gary and Phil Neville, Nicky Butt, Paul Scholes and Andy Cole and now Ferdinand, Rooney, Carrick and Co.

United have Ferdinand, Carrick, Wes Brown, and Kieran Richardson on current England duty.

Rooney is suspended but will be immediately back in Steve McClaren’s squad once his ban has finished just as Gary Neville will be restored when fit.

English players certainly know what is needed in the Premiership Fergie knows that, as he bids to rebuild United’s challenge at home and abroad, he can ill afford the time to allow newcomers to bed into a new UEFA culture.'

[redrus]

HHHhhmmmm, something you'd like to believe in there. That ol pud needs to be proved though eh, I really am trying to upbeat about this season but, our lack of drive in the transfer market coupled with the remaining unrest at the hands of the Glazer family, still leaves me un-nerved.

Cheers MP's.

One of those English lads, gets an Opta with Keano.

Since Roy Keane’s departure by mutual consent in November of 2005, Sir Alex Ferguson has had trouble attempting to fill the void left in the central midfield anchorman role.

Ferguson has attempted to replace him with Juan Sebastian Veron, Eric Djemba-Djemba and even Alan Smith but Keane has until now been irreplaceable. Is Michael Carrick, the £18 million signing from Tottenham Hotspur the right man to replace him?

It would be foolish to expect Carrick to control the central midfield area in the same way that Keane would have done, as the two players are completely different specimens, Carrick lacks the imposing aggressive stature that made Keane such a fearsome player to face.

Carrick represents a different kind of player, the intelligent ball playing anchorman in the mould of Italy’s Andrea Pirlo, or in previous years Argentina’s Fernando Redondo or Spain’s Josep Guardiola.

Keane’s speciality was his tireless box to box running, whilst Carrick is renowned more for his elegant passes, and therefore prefers the ball to do the work.

Opta have looked at comparisons between the two players, the last full season for Roy Keane (2004-05) and the 2005/06 season for Michael Carrick.

Roy Keane had a high successful passing percentage of 89% compared to Carrick’s 80%, one factor affecting this may be Carrick’s inclination to play the long ball more often than Keane.

Unsurprisingly Keane conceded more fouls and also received more bookings than Carrick over the compared seasons but Carrick’s total of six assists promises to add a new level of creativity to the United midfield.

Player Roy Keane Michael Carrick

Team Manchester United Tottenham Hotspur

Season 2004-05 2005-06

Appearances 31 35

Minutes On Pitch 2,611 3,123

Goal Attempts

Goals 1 2

Shots On Target 6 10

Shots Off Target 10 12

Shooting Accuracy 38% 45%

Chance Conversion 6% 9%

Passing

Goal Assists 2 6

Total Passes 2,210 1,938

Pass Completion % 89% 80%

Crossing

Total Crosses 42 231

Cross Completion % 40% 31%

Dribbling

Dribbles & Runs 123 108

Dribble Completion % 82% 79%

Defending

Tackles Made 160 135

Tackles Won % 67% 74%

Blocks 15 15

Clearances 47 115

Interceptions 47 60

Discipline

Fouls 37 19

Offside 4 0

Yellow Cards 9 2

Red Cards 0 0

redrus

*sorry people, I tried to line it up but I can't so..................

Edited September 6, 2006 by redrus

[muckypups]

Defending

Tackles Made 160 135

Tackles Won % 67% 74%

Interesting article Red.. and some surprising stats, particularly the tackles won by Carrick..

I'm sure he'll come good for us.. but I think we still need a solid defensive mid-fielder, I'm still hoping for Hargreaves at some stage.

[muckypups]

Team news for the match today from The Times:

Manchester United v Tottenham - 5.15pm, Saturday

Gary Neville is set to captain Manchester United as they look to extend their 100 per cent start to the season.

Neville has struggled to overcome a calf strain picked up during the World Cup but after missing England’s Euro 2008 qualifying wins over Andorra and Macedonia, has now been declared fit by Sir Alex Ferguson, the manager.

Neither Alan Smith nor Gabriel Heinze will be considered despite nearing recovery from their respective injuries, Nemanja Vidic is due to have a new plaster put on a broken wrist next week, while Paul Scholes and Wayne Rooney complete three-match bans.

Martin Jol, the Tottenham manager, is boosted by the return of Ledley King for the trip to Manchester United.

King has finally recovered from surgery on his knee and will partner Michael Dawson in defence. However, Dimitar Berbatov, Tottenham's new £10.8 million Bulgarian forward, is almost certain to miss out after suffering a groin strain on international duty.

Pascal Chimbonda is set to make his debut at right-back after recovering from a kick on the calf he sustained in his last appearance for Wigan.

MANCHESTER UNITED (from): Van der Sar, Kuszczak, Neville, Evra, Ferdinand, Brown, Ronaldo, Saha, Giggs, Park, Carrick, Solskjaer, O’Shea, Richardson, Fletcher, Jones, Silvestre.

TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR (from): Robinson, Chimbonda, Stalteri, Lee, Ekotto, Dawson, King, Davenport, Huddlestone, Lennon, Jenas, Davids, Murphy, Ziegler, Tainio, Defoe, Keane, Mido, Zokora.

[redrus]

Giggs no longer the 'scapegoat'

THE INDIE

It seemed ludicrous then, and it seems even more so now, but not so long ago Ryan Giggs was a target for criticism by some sections of the Old Trafford crowd. They are not carping now.

The recipient of the Premiership Player of the Month for August, Giggs, now 32, scored his second winning goal in two League matches, maintaining Manchester United's 100 per cent start to the season and managing the near impossible. Instead of looking forward to what Michael Carrick might do in a red shirt, attention turned to a time when the team will have to do without their most enduring talent.

Carrick, making his first home start against his old club, was initially and inevitably the focus and, to give him his due, he did enough to suggest he could become United's best passer from central midfield since Pat Crerand, which is no trifling accolade. Rather than play the holding role, this time Carrick was further forward, proving, as his former manger Martin Jol said, "that he can fill a number of positions. He is very versatile."

Versatile? Compared to Giggs, Carrick has all the range of John Wayne. We are only four games into the Premiership season and the Welshman has already appeared as a winger, central midfielder and striker, while the role of scapegoat that some United supporters awarded him a while ago has quietly been laid to rest.

"He's been fantastic for this club, there's no question of that," said Sir Alex Ferguson, who described Giggs as one of the greatest players of all time. "He's using his experience and maturity now, which is very pleasing because we need people who can do that."

Both Ferguson and Gary Neville were asked whether Giggs was performing better than at any time in his career, which brought a querulous smile to the latter who has watched his team-mate ravage Champions' League opponents in the past, not to mention score arguably the greatest FA Cup goal in history. "Not really," Neville replied, "he's played better than that. I think people will only appreciate him properly when he's gone."

THE TIMES

It is probably too early to start talking about "defining" weeks, but no one at Manchester United is underplaying the importance of the next seven days. When Sir Alex Ferguson spoke before United’s opening game against Fulham of the need to "hit the ground running and keep it that way", four wins from four — their best start to a Premiership campaign — was what he had in mind.

Tougher examinations lie in wait and having rode their luck at times against Tottenham Hotspur on Saturday, improvement will be required at home to Celtic in the Champions League on Wednesday and Arsenal in the Barclays Premiership four days later. But with all around them stuttering and stumbling, United have the chance to send out a message.

"We’ve seen in the last few years teams like Chelsea have had a good start and never stopped," Ferguson said. "We hope that our own good start generates that real ambition and desire in all the players that they can do it this season."

THE GUARDIAN

Manchester United seem to have borrowed one of England's slogans from the World Cup: Believe. Sir Alex Ferguson is certainly brimming with self-belief, the team have got the bit between their teeth and the supporters are starting to readjust their thinking. Old Trafford has been a place of faded grandeur during the Abramovich/Glazer era but this has been their best start since Ron Atkinson's final season in charge 21 years ago and, slowly but surely, some of the old conviction is coming back.

OK, not everyone is happy, judging by the five season-ticket holders with a spare bedsheet and a pot of black paint who greeted Ferguson into work last Friday with a vociferous Fergie Out protest. Conspicuously, however, the "Carrington Five" did not repeat the demonstration 24 hours later at Old Trafford. As a man, Ferguson may have alienated splinter groups of United's support but, as a manager, the renascent performances of his team have turned down the volume on his critics.

An immaculate start of four successive wins has invited supporters to believe they can sustain a credible challenge without any of the indignities of last season. It is unlikely that Ferguson will admit the championship is all but over when there are still Christmas trees poking out of wheelie bins. Ferguson is blessed with natural confidence but the people who are closest to him have seen a marked difference, even in his body language, compared with this time last year. That confidence has rubbed off on his players, most notably Ryan Giggs, who, once again, took most of the accolades.

Nobody could begrudge Giggs the praise but it would be an exaggeration to say he dominated the game. Tottenham, in fact, probably merited a draw considering the frequency with which they found space between Rio Ferdinand and Wes Brown in the second half. Michael Dawson, Mido and the perennial substitute Jermain Defoe were all guilty of taking their eye off the ball with unchallenged headers eight yards out and they were costly misses. Tottenham have lost three of their opening four games whereas it took until December 28 for them to suffer that number of defeats last season. It did not help that they were missing Aaron Lennon, who suffered a knee injury in training on Friday, though Hossam Ghaly did well on debut in his place.

redrus

[redrus]

GARY NEVILLE IS A RED

By redissue

He says watching Liverpool being beaten spurred United on.

"We watched the Merseyside derby and it made us realise just how difficult it is for the top teams immediately after an international break.

"You tend to get back home at 5 or 6am on the Thursday morning but your legs don't seem to come back with you.

"Some of the lads have not even trained. It is always a difficult situation and you have to just dig in and get the win.

"We are aware it is still early days and there are tougher tests still to come. But, at this stage, we could not have done any more."

redrus

[redrus]

Rooney has a fight in Panacea;

Wayne Rooney has allegedly punched Blackburn's MIchal Gray in the face and given him a black eye. This happened last weekend after Gray apparently insulted the lovely Coleen and other female friends of Rooney. A 'spokesman' for the striker said:

"Wayne and Coleen were enjoying a night out with three other couples and were having a quiet dinner when Michael came up to their table uninvited," said a spokesman for the striker.

"Michael then began making a number of remarks which were offensive to Coleen and Wayne's other female guests.

"Several times, Wayne asked Michael to leave. It was a brief incident and as far as Wayne is concerned, he bears no ill-feeling towards Michael."

The Mirror reports that an onlooker said: "He'd (Gray) been drinking and said Wayne should share the girls around, suggesting two each. He became increasingly obnoxious.

"Wayne suddenly whacked him without getting out of his seat. Gray hit the deck and was removed by the bouncers."

redrus

[redrus]

BITS AND BOBS

from redissue

Monday 11th September 2006

Kiddo, Juve, Tevez, Mascherano and Ashley Cole.

* Kiddo joined Sheffield United last night as coach, therefore disappointing Roy Keane who wanted him at Sunderland.

Neil Warnock: "I'm absolutely delighted to get Kiddo. I've been working on him for six weeks. He is just the sort of person we need.

"He's an extra body and brain, a very good and very experienced one. The demands upon me now we are in the Premiership have meant sometimes Stuart has been talking to 26 players on his own. That's too much for anyone. We needed to bring someone in and who could be better than someone who has seen it all and done it all? Brian has worked with the best, he has a great rapport with players and our lads, and the other staff, will enjoy working with him."

* Juventus managed a 1-1 draw at Rimini in their first game in Serie B.

* Neither Tevez nor Mascherano were included in West Ham's starting line-up yesterday. Tevez came on as a sub in the second half. Mascherano remianed on the bench.

* Ashley Cole says he's been 'betrayed by the club I love'.

"Probably some people think I'm a greedy pig - but it's nothing like that.

"It's never been about money. For me it's about respect.

"If you'd asked me three years ago, I'd have said I was at Arsenal for life. I gave everything to Arsenal when I was there and I was honest when I was there.

"But you need that to be reciprocated.

"You always want to be loved and wanted and feel respected. But I don't think I got respect or was held in high regard at Arsenal.

"It's nothing to do with money, greed or being disloyal. I can look at myself in the mirror and say that I'm not a bad person."

redrus

[redrus]

United 3 Celtic 2

The Guardian;

This was an uncomfortably old-fashioned occasion for Manchester United. There was a harum-scarum victory for Sir Alex Ferguson's side in the opening game of Champions League group F as his players conceded the opener and let slip a 2-1 lead before clinching the win. It is the sort of volatility that fans get romantic about when they recall European nights of decades ago, but there was unease in seeing that unpredictability recreated.

United will have to be more authoritative in future if they are to concoct any kind of challenge in the competition. It is also true that Celtic were more unsettlingly vivacious than Ferguson's lax players anticipated. Despite the romance, there were also overtones of economics.

Celtic, with their limited budget, are unable to afford high quality in every area as Ferguson can (ed: arf!). While Gordon Strachan has made great progress since the 5-0 rout by Artmedia Bratislava in his first European match with the club a year ago, there are more changes to be made. Instant solutions are not available, however, and cash, in any case, is not always king.

Celtic determined the character of the evening by taking the lead in the 21st minute. Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink brought down an Artur Boruc kick-out, turned Rio Ferdinand, broke into the area and ripped a low drive that Van der Sar could not prevent from finding the net at the far post. After that, the game could no longer be decorous.

United had actually needed to be provoked into naked aggression. With Wayne Rooney making a muted start on his return from suspension, there was too little devilment at first. The zest flooded back in the search for the equaliser, but Celtic were rash in allowing United to pull level in the 29th minute.

Ryan Giggs had burst beyond Gary Caldwell and though he was so wide that it made no sense for Boruc to charge out the sometimes inspired goalkeeper is an impulsive person. While the contact on the winger was so slight that it barely amounted to a foul, it was natural that Giggs should go down. Saha converted the penalty.

The outfield players were nearly as erratic as Boruc. When Gravesen lost possession to Michael Carrick in the 40th minute it was all too simple for Paul Scholes to feed through the ball that Saha, moving away from Mark Wilson, clipped home.

Even so, the uneven quality of Celtic does not stop them from being very refined on occasion. When Wes Brown brought down Jiri Jarosik after 43 minutes, there was a mood of anticipation among visiting fans who knew exactly what Shunsuke Nakamura can do with a free-kick. The ball was floated over the wall and into the corner of the net, with Van der Sar transfixed.

By then, Giggs had gone off with a hamstring injury, to be replaced by Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. Ferguson might have opted to introduce a predator such as the Norwegian in any case because punishing the Celtic back four was the most obvious means of taming the game.

The lapse that led to Ferguson's team recovering the lead would have left Strachan aghast. In the 47th minute Gravesen mis-hit a pass to, of all people, Scholes. He threaded the ball to Saha again and while the Frenchman's attempt was saved he forced possession across the six-yard line, where Solskjaer was waiting to pounce.

The Torygraph

Old Trafford so nearly belonged to Glasgow last night. In of the most thrilling contests this celebrated arena has ever staged, Celtic lost by the odd goal in five, and it required performances of sustained brilliance from Louis Saha, the high-speed, two-goal predator, and the ageless creative force that is Paul Scholes to deny Gordon Strachan's valiant men.

Apart from Saha, Scholes and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, who nicked the crucial third, Sir Alex Ferguson's Premiership pacesetters lacked leaders, particularly in defence where Rio Ferdinand and Wes Brown endured a torrid evening. Celtic's target-man, Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink, proved a handful, as well as a mouthful.

The tall Dutchman exploited uncertainty in United's back line to plunder Celtic's first, and Shunsuke Nakamura added a majestic second, a free kick swept over a wall that David Beckham in his Old Trafford pomp would have struggled to better.

And so a raucous crowd of 74,041 were treated to a feast of breathless, attacking football, a European tie exciting enough to revive memories of Real Madrid's epic visit here when Ronaldo struck that mesmerising hat-trick for the Spanish. Last night's show was as much about stamina and speed as technique; mistakes abounded, particularly defensively, but it all made for compelling entertainment.

The Times

The Champions League produced the best and worst of British football last night; a raucous, passionate evening at Old Trafford packed full of incident but also countless errors. For that, Celtic could be proud even in defeat. Manchester United should be a little concerned even in victory because, while they created the majority of chances, they also made some of the most notable mistakes.

Gordon Strachan’s men were wilting by the end, Paul Telfer almost heading into his own goal as United threatened to run away with things, but they had given Arsène Wenger some encouragement before what should be an equally feisty occasion on Sunday.

The Arsenal manager will want to ask more questions of a midfield in which Paul Scholes stroked the ball around adroitly, receiving a standing ovation (and perhaps catching Steve McClaren’s eye), with little obvious assistance from the subdued Michael Carrick or the anonymous Darren Fletcher. He will certainly want to ask questions of a wobbly defence.

Sir Alex Ferguson had told his team to treat this like a European tie and count on their superior class but, in a thrilling first half, they were dragged into a cross-border scrap. They might have scored far more than the two goals from the lively Louis Saha and the decisive third from Ole Gunnar Solskjaer but, shaking hands with Strachan at the final whistle, Ferguson appeared to pass on some deserved commiserations.

Experience and talent were so heavily weighted in United’s favour that even some of Ferguson’s own players began as if expecting a rout. Perhaps they have been playing too many testimonials against these Scottish foes but it took Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink’s opening goal to wake them.

Even then, Rio Ferdinand and Wes Brown were embarrassed too often and too easily. Ferguson had talked of “apprehension” at the start of this European campaign and he was given more reasons to be fearful. Vennegoor of Hesselink was proving a handful as well as a mouthful and both England stoppers were guilty of carelessness.

There was a return to Ferdinand’s bad old days in the 21st minute as he failed to get under a straightforward punt down the middle. Lapse of concentration was the only explanation and Vennegoor of Hesselink, who had barely touched the defender, could not believe his luck. Taking the ball on, he strode into the penalty area and aimed a left-foot shot into the far corner. It was crisply struck but Edwin van der Sar will still not like to dwell on his failure to keep it out.

With the noise and the temperature soaring inside the ground, the game briefly became frenzied and perhaps that explains Artur Boruc’s decision to rush out to confront Ryan Giggs inside his penalty area even though the winger had little chance of stopping the ball from going out of play. Contact may have been minimal but the Celtic goalkeeper had invited the penalty.

The equaliser should have been the cue for United to start controlling proceedings but another defensive lapse gave Vennegoor of Hesselink a free header from six yards. Sighs of relief all round as it flew straight at Van der Sar.

Even when United took the lead for the first time five minutes before the interval, Scholes skilfully sliding the ball through to Saha to poke past Boruc, they could only protect it for three minutes. Then it was Brown’s turn to add to the pandemonium by recklessly conceding a foul just outside the area. Shunsuke Nakamura curled his free kick over the wall with Van der Sar rooted to the spot.

It was always unlikely that the second half could match the drama of the first and when United regained the lead within two minutes of the restart, there was a sense that, finally, the killer blow had been struck. Scholes was involved once again, seizing on Thomas Gravesen’s dreadful pass inside and instantly teeing up Saha for his hat-trick.

Boruc blocked but, after another ricochet, the ball fell to Solskjaer to sweep into an empty net for his first goal in Europe for three years. At last, United began to play with some assurance, Rooney coming close to marking his return with a goal, but they will need to tighten up if this is to be a long, fruitful campaign.

redrus

[redrus]

Boruc says Giggs dived.

from redissue

Celtic's goalkeeper Artur Boruc was angry at the referee's decision to award United a penalty last night.

'For me it was never a penalty, so I was angry,' said the 26-year-old. 'I tried not to touch him, and he just dived. It looked like he dived. I am upset, and so are my team-mates. We played well, but it was not enough.'

Celtic captain Neil Lennon believes referee Lobus Michel could not wait to give the decision to the home side.

'From what I have heard it was very debatable,' he said. 'From where I was the contact was minimal. But Mr Michel is a good old friend of ours, so we didn't expect many favours off him.

'We met him in Barcelona as well, so we weren't holding out for anything off him. From our point of view he couldn't wait to give it.

'I went and had a word and said to give it you have to be 100% sure - but he said `I am'. It is inconclusive from the TV.'

Strapon didn't want to dwell on the referee's mistake though as his team made a few throughout the night.

"It was not a penalty - there was no mistake from us there," he said.

"But I can live with that. I don't think it was a penalty. I'm not slamming. I'm not blasting - but it was not a penalty. The ref made one mistake - we made numerous. Why should we criticise him for making one?

"Our flair players did not pass the ball as well as they could.

"Our problem is waking up and living with regrets. But they were honest mistakes. We gave the ball away, and there is nothing we can do but get on with it."

redrus

[redrus]

FANS CRITICISE SLEEPY DEFENCE

By Editor redish

Friday 15th September 2006

And plenty of others join in too. Take note Fergie!

Van der Sar:

“It was not a good performance by us against Celtic and we made mistakes, especially at the back. It is fair to say they probably surprised us a little bit with their attacking play, but I think we contributed to their success with our defending.

“It wasn't up to standard and I don't think our concentration was as good as it should have been. Little mistakes crept in when they shouldn't have at the back. We are not happy about it but, luckily, we got away with it. But if we want to progress in the competition, we have to cut out those mistakes because other teams will punish us even more.”

James Lawton in the Independent:

Sir Alex Ferguson's bullish belief that more familiar days are beginning to roll again for Manchester United was only briefly disturbed by Rio Ferdinand's latest bout of sleep-walking against Celtic this week.

At the mention of Benfica, one of the teams who so unexpectedly barred United's passage to the knock-out phase of last season's Champions' League, Ferguson's jaw tightened on the prediction that being grouped again with the Lisbon club ensured that raw wounds would be spectacularly washed. "Watch out for that result," he said with a dramatic emphasis that might have brought a nod from Robert DeNiro.

But how realistic is the old general's belief that his team can finally break the hold of Jose Mourinho's Chelsea on domestic football - and at the same time strike out again for the peaks of the European game?

If the Celtic match reminded us of anything, it was that United still have a congenital dilettante at the heart of their defence. A harsh judgement? Only when you forget that this gifted footballer is now in his 11th year as a top-flight professional.

He will be 28 in a few months time. He is capable of charming the birds down from the eves of any stadium with his effortless control and silky distribution. But once again the old question is being asked of Rio Ferdinand. Does he really have the stone heart of a born defender? Is his most basic urge to deny or to create?

When was the last time that question was asked of John Terry or Ricardo Cavalho? It has never been voiced and until it is Jose Mourinho retains a vital advantage in a battle that never before has promised to be so close.

Kevin McCarra in the Guardian:

Manchester United's declaration of intent for this season turned into a mixed message as they beat Celtic 3-2. There was enough vigour for Sir Alex Ferguson to be lured into the hyperbolic claim that his side could have scored 10, but future rivals in the Champions League will have relished the television highlights more for the flaws in the United line-up.

Rio Ferdinand was bamboozled at the opening goal even though Celtic's build-up contained nothing more than a kick-out by the goalkeeper Artur Boruc. Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink scored with a touch, a turn and a drive that made a bystander out of the England defender. The other United centre-back, Wes Brown, was not shamed so glaringly, but he was tricked into conceding the foul from which Shunsuke Nakamura made it 2-2.

Ferguson's next game in the tournament is at Estadio da Luz, where Benfica eliminated United 10 months ago. "It will be a different bloody result," he predicted. But his prophetic powers suffer from an intermittent fault. He was badly in error when he declared United would go through against Benfica last December.

redrus

[redrus]

Sunday’s match with Arsenal is in United’s sights;

Saha:

“I am enjoying myself. Now for a big game against Arsenal and I want to keep our run going. It’s great to be scoring. It gives you extra confidence. I just keep giving 100 per cent, which is what I will continue to do.”

Sundays the perfect time to really prove then Lois....!

Carrick from the MEN:

“It is too early in the day to be writing Arsenal off. We have had a good start and need to concentrate on ourselves.

“Arsenal had a good result in midweek at Hamburg and will be confident going into the game, but Man U v Arsenal is always a huge game and after the start we have had, we want to carry that on.

“If we win the game we are in a strong position, but you can't look too far ahead. Things will only be settled at the end of the season.

“It is the kind of game everyone looks forward to, but to be honest we haven't had a lot of time to think about it, with so much on. But we are focusing on that game now in training.

“Winning is a good habit to have, and something we want to continue into Sunday's tough game. But confidence is high, and we are picking up results.

“It's another huge game in a big week for us, but the week has started well and we want to carry that on.

“I wouldn't say we have hit top gear yet, even if we have had a couple of fantastic performances. But we have won every game, so it will be nice to hit top gear!

“I will take winning every game, that's for sure. My partnership with Scholesy worked well on Wednesday but who knows what is going to happen on Sunday?

“We played well against Celtic, but are not firing full on. But we played well at times and created a lot of chances so it was a pleasing night.

“I enjoyed my Champions League debut, even if it was a typical British cup tie with a lot of goals and excitement.

“It was vital to get the three points, especially with the other two teams in the group drawing, which gives us a little cushion.”

Very diplomatic son but, Sunday will be totally different again. Just get stuck in is all we ask....

redrus

Edited September 16, 2006 by redrus

[redrus]

Some stories from Sky this morning....;

Rio ready to rise to the occasion.....fnar fnar....

Fergie pans retirement plans.....

Keane criticises Rooney legend.....

redrus

[redrus]

Footymad's view on the big game in todays programme....

redrus

[redrus]

GUNNERS CLAIM UNITED SCALP

By Graeme Bailey - Created on 17 Sep 2006

Arsenal stunned Mancester United as they claimed a fully deserved 1-0 win at Old Trafford.

The SuperSunday clash was an intriguing, exhilarating affair and was decided by a brilliant goal.

Emmanuel Adebyor, who had an excellent afternoon all-round, was the hero has he toe-poked home Cesc Fabregas's wonderfully insightful pass into the box.

Arsene Wenger will leave Manchester fully knowing that the victory was in no little way down to his own tactical ability as his decision to play one man up-front paid dividends as his side played the much better football throughout.

It looked as if they would leave with nothing after a string of good chances when begging including a first half penalty which captain Gilberto Silva failed to convert.

However, Adebayor struck and United were left rueing their own missed opportunities, with Cristiano Ronaldo the main culprit.

A pulsating opening 45 minutes saw Arsenal dominate for large periods, although United were not without their goalmouth chances.

The opening exchanges saw Arsenal push forward and dominate possession with their midfield trio of Cesc, Gilberto and Tomas Rosicky running the show in the absence of the injured duo of Thierry Henry and Robin van Persie.

After just 11 minutes Arsenal should have gone ahead, Alexander Hleb picked out a wonderful run from Adebayor and the Togolese striker was given little option but to go down under the challenge of debutant Tomasz Kuszczak.

The Polish number one was making his United debut as Edwin van der Sar was suffering from a stomach bug - but the summer arrival from West Brom held his nerve as he dived to his right to parry Gilberto's tame effort - although the Gunners skipper did visibly slip just before striking the ball.

The resulting corner again saw Kuszczak called upon as Adebayor met the set-piece with a great downward header, and Paul Scholes on the line was needed to clear as William Gallas looked poised to pounce.

Kuszczak had barely had time to take a breath when he was again needed to keep Arsenal at bay, once again the dangerous Adebayor was at the heart of the move as he nodded a long ball down into the path of Rosicky who stuck a lovely half-volley - but the United number two was there to push it wide.

At this point an obviously concerned Sir Alex Ferguson introduced Patrice Evra at the expense of fellow countryman Mikael Silvestre and the former Monaco man made an immediate impact.

He was first needed to make a crucial last ditch tackle on the marauding Adebayor, before at the other end a wonderful early challenge on Cesc set-up Cristiano Ronaldo - whose turn and volley needed Jens Lehmann to produce a top-class save.

Ronaldo was becoming more and more involved in the game as United began to find their feet and he should have put The Red Devils ahead just two minutes before the interval.

Darren Fletcher flighted a great ball over the top of the Arsenal defence and Emmanuel Eboue was caught out - and the Portuguese flyer took the ball on his chest before unleashing a stinging volley, but he was denied as the ball struck Lehmann in the face, for which he needed lengthy treatment before carrying on.

Into the second period and Arsenal were again quickly into their stride and Adebayor was also continuing to be at the centre of the action.

He had the first real opening of the half some ten minutes in when some delightful foot work saw him get away from his marker but he lashed his shot over the crossbar.

United had been struggling to get there forwards into the game but Louis Saha was just inches away from giving his side the lead on the hour as Fletcher took down a long ball on the right before curling a superb cross into the area for the Frenchman, but his flick only just eluded Lehmann's goal.

Again though Arsenal looked the more likely and Adebayor was again presented with a great chance to break the deadlock. The long-legged African broke as Eboue intercepted a stray Ronaldo pass but his finish was poor and all too easy for Kuszczak to claim.

Rosicky soon blasted wide after being teed up on the edge of the area by Hleb - which proved to be the last contribution for the Belarussian as Julio Baptista was introduced to the fray.

A stunning Kolo Toure strike from 35 yards was next up for the United defence to deal with and a stranded Kuszczak looked relieved to see the ball flash wide.

With just over ten minutes left Sir Alex Ferguson introduced Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and Michael Carrick - but his decision to take off Rooney and Scholes was greeted by a chorus of boos.

However, it was Arsenal's substitute Baptista who almost grabbed the headlines as he latched onto John O'Shea's poor pass and ran from deep into half to the edge of the United box but his curling effort was just wide of the post.

With five minutes left Arsenal finally made the breakthrough they deserved. It was Spanish ace Cesc whose dogged persistence saw him steal the ball from Ronaldo, he then threaded through a beautifully weighted pass into the run of Adebayor and he poked the ball underneath the advancing Kuszczak.

Still United could have levelled and Solskjaer thought he had within minutes as he turned and struck a great shot across Lehmann but somehow the German got his finger tips to the ball and turn it around the post as Arsenal claimed their first win of the season.

I was pissed off a minute ago, I'm over it now though. Nice one Arsenal, it got to the point when it was always gonna go one way and, to be honest all game it looked like you, although we had plenty of chances.

Nevermind though, let it never be said redrus is not gracious in defeat. I had a feeling about today although, I predicted 2-1 to us in Chon's game, I just cannot bet against my own team....

Roll on the season, this is why we love the game, cos win, lose or sup some booze, footballs always there....

redrus

[redrus]

No pizza, no feud and no nonsense.

Ferguson:

"I didn't think it was a bad performance but I was disappointed by our tiredness in the second half. I think the pace and emotion of the Celtic game, which was played in a real Scotland v England tempo, might have affected us.

"We cannot deny that Arsenal deserved to win.

"I don’t think it was our best performance and we can play better. It’s a very difficult league. Chelsea have lost a game, Liverpool have lost two games. We all watched Chelsea v Liverpool and Liverpool should have won that match."

Referring to the booing of his substitutions:

"The fans don’t want to see their From 'back page heroes' coming off, but two games in four days after being out for a while takes its toll.

Neville:

"We are disappointed. When you make mistakes in midfield they are as good as anybody in making you pay.

"Our passing wasn't good and we looked tired. We gave the ball away too many times. We would have accepted 0-0.

"We had two or three clear-cut chances, but didn't take them. They had three good chances too."

Wenger:

"We are not a team in transition. I have never believed that.

"Yes we are a young team but I have great belief in these players. We are a big club. We are very ambitious and I believe we can win the championship this season. To read the papers recently you would think we would be in the Championship next season.

"I believe in my team and that we have a chance to win the championship.

"To come here and show such a maturity, I feel yes it’s certainly the most complete victory over Manchester United.

"Everybody has written us off straight away and if you open the newspapers we’d be playing in the Championship next year. But we’re very ambitious and we want to win the Premiership. We can but we need performances like that."

redrus

[redrus]

Owen won't rule out Red Devils

By Tom Adams -Sky Sports, Created on 20 Sep 2006

Sky Link.

In an exclusive interview with Sky Sports News, Owen Hargreaves has refused to rule out the possibility of joining Manchester United in January.

The England international was fined by his club Bayern Munich over the summer after making public his desire to move to Old Trafford following a successful World Cup campaign.

The German giants resisted Sir Alex Ferguson's attempts to bring Hargreaves to The Premiership for the first time, and the tenacious midfielder was forced to remain in the Bundesliga where he broke his leg on Saturday in a game against Arminia Bielefeld.

Whilst beginning his recuperation from the serious injury, Hargreaves took time out to explain to Sky Sports News that he has no regrets about pursuing a switch to Old Trafford over the summer.

Moreover the international star refused to rule out the possibility that he could join The Red Devils when the transfer window opens at the start of 2007.

"It's tough to say, I don't know [about moving in January]," said Hargreaves.

"I've said what I would have liked to happen and obviously it didn't happen and I think it's important if you have an opinion that you stick to it even though you might receive some criticism here and from the club.

"What happens in the future it's not really down to me, you saw that in the summer and I'm looking forward to when I go on the pitch doing well and playing well because these things all started from me playing well as a footballer.

"Hopefully I can do that and we will see where my path leads."

With Hargreaves now out of England's next two Euro 2008 qualifiers against Macedonia and Croatia in early October, and Aaron Lennon also missing due to injury, there have been suggestions that David Beckham could be welcomed back to the international reckoning after being axed by Steve McClaren.

Hargreaves certainly believes the former captain still has much to offer The Three Lions.

"There's always room for David Beckham," Hargreaves added.

"He actually rang me up and left a message on my phone, it's strange to have the support of people like that, to see how I'm doing.

"At the moment he is not in the picture but I don't think you can ever close the door on Becks because he is such a resilient individual in the past and still has a lot to add to the team.

"But obviously those aren't decisions I make or he makes, they are obviously down to the manager."

Under the new guiding hand of McClaren, Hargreaves has emerged as an indispensable member of the England team, playing in a new look central midfield with Frank Lampard that has allowed Steven Gerrard to roam free on the right.

The Bayern star is now hoping that McClaren can bring 40 years of under-achievement to an end for The Three Lions, particularly in the wake of a desperately disappointing World Cup.

"The potential is there now, we just need to make the most of it.

"I think we have got everything in place now the onus is on us to do very well, to prove to people we are a great team and that is what we are hoping to do in the future."

Reflecting on his own injury, Hargreaves, who could be back in action by mid-November, is focusing on recuperating fully and returning stronger after suffering the fracture.

"I think the most important thing is to not think why and what could have been, things were going so well I think if that's the case you deal with the good and the bad the same.

"I'm looking forward to getting healthy, I'm taking a small break at the moment and I'll come back even stronger."

redrus

Torres News.

Evra, targets reguilar spot.

Lehmann, In Police probe.

Edited September 20, 2006 by redrus