Bangkok Call 'Center Scam' Gang Drove British Soldier To Commit Suicide

[Roachiebkk]

Well I'm also not sure if they just target the elderly and infirm. I must get 6 calls a week through my office switchboard from some foreigner offering 'expat investment services'. I continuously and can almost set my watch to one female caller who seems totally oblivious to the fact that I had on several previous occasions, and not in the nicest of terms told her to never ring this office again. So i'm sure they are scouring sites like LinkedIn etc to get their hook into expats. So frankly i can't tell any difference between the legit and these bands of scum. Just don't believe anyone selling anything by a 'cold call' over the phone.

[mamypoko]

There are lots of vulnerable farangs in Thailand I know of a friend who has been fleeced by loan sharks for 12 million baht due to his thai business partner taking out huge bank loan and then walking it happens all the time.

I hope the scumbags mentioned in this article get put away for a very long time but there again money talks even at the highest level

Please tell me how he was "VULNERABLE" when he invested 12M with a Thai business-partner?

If he didn't know the ins and outs he wasn't 'vulnerable' at all, he was plain dumb!!!

-mel.

New flash: Dumb man has 12M to invest

[PoodMaiDai]

Who gives such info to strangers on the phone?

Jesus. Are people THAT stupid, even after all the press of such scams?

[blazes]

Complete and utter scum, scum, scum. These scumbags are standing in bars throughout Thailand boasting about their antics. I met two in CM recently, and I gave them both barrels, they weren't expecting that.

Ostracise these people, if they walk into your bar then walk out, they spend their days picking the pockets of pensioners and others.

There is no middle ground, don't let this scum think they are welcome anywhere near you. They are a disgrace to the human race.

While, like others, I would agree with the general intent of your post, but tell me: how would you know a person in a bar, having a quiet pint, was a scumbag (of this particular type)?

[giddyup]

I do not disagree with the above comments as to how low these individuals are on the evolutionary scale, but come on!!! People get into these scams because they want to make easy money NOW. They let their own greed dupe them into believing the scammer. It is a shame that someone had to lose his life as a result of this scam, but sooner or later one has to believe what we have always been told: "If it sounds too good to be true, it is".

You are correct in respect to some scams. Unfortunately, you are very wrong in respect to the ones that target the elderly. Keep in mind that typically the older victims are not as sharp as they once were. They can be suffering from age related illnesses that can impact their cognitive abilities. Or, they are alone and vulnerable. Long term solitude can do a number on a person. The scams can be quite sophisticated in respect to referencing relatives, or invoices or bank accounts and claiming there is an error or other problem. Often the requests are not for large sums, but are continuous harassments. We wouldn't blame a mentally disabled younger person if he or she was conned would we? Why then, should we be so quick to blame the elderly who are vulnerable?

I'm not sure you can single out the elderly for falling for these scams. I'm a couple of months off 70 and would never be that gullible. The only way they would get my money is to put a gun to my head. Quite often (as someone else pointed out) it's about greed and wanting to make an easy buck. The only reason the Nigerian scammers are so successful is that they prey on naive, greedy people.

[tragickingdom]

It is pretty hard to believe that someone commits suicide for just a scam. It might have the well known drop. People should simply be more sensible when doing business on the internet. Have a look at the idiocy at Facebook. 900 million People must be raven mad to put their pictures and personal details on it. As Facebook is long gone in ten years time their life is still out there. In the end it is sad that it happened but the scammer cannot be held responsible for someone jumping of the tower bridge, maybe Tony Blair can though for sending him into a unjust war that messed up his head.

[theblether]

It would be handy if some people would grasp what is being said. I use the phrase vulnerable, okay, so that could also be called weak minded, let's not quibble about phraseology.

How it comes to be that people are vulnerable is really a moot point, all we have to know is that there are plenty of people in all societies in that category. They need protection, it's as simple as that. Anyone that wakes up in the morning and goes looking for these people to extort money from them is.........****. You can fill in the gaps.

Anyway, what is it with people not being prepared that these people exist? There are multitudes of reasons why people are vulnerable, what are we to do, throw them to the wolves?

No thanks, not I...........and not the vast majority of people I know.

Right I'm away to do some work, cheerio.

Edited June 8, 2012 by theblether

[theblether]

Complete and utter scum, scum, scum. These scumbags are standing in bars throughout Thailand boasting about their antics. I met two in CM recently, and I gave them both barrels, they weren't expecting that.

Ostracise these people, if they walk into your bar then walk out, they spend their days picking the pockets of pensioners and others.

There is no middle ground, don't let this scum think they are welcome anywhere near you. They are a disgrace to the human race.

While, like others, I would agree with the general intent of your post, but tell me: how would you know a person in a bar, having a quiet pint, was a scumbag (of this particular type)?

The indicator was the phrase "standing in bars throughout Thailand boasting".

[TackyToo]

I do not disagree with the above comments as to how low these individuals are on the evolutionary scale, but come on!!! People get into these scams because they want to make easy money NOW. They let their own greed dupe them into believing the scammer. It is a shame that someone had to lose his life as a result of this scam, but sooner or later one has to believe what we have always been told: "If it sounds too good to be true, it is".

As bad as the situation with these gangs is. Is it really wrong to say that the guy first and foremost became a victim of his own greed and stupidity?

[Arkady]

I hope the precise nature of the call centre scam will be revealed as a warning to others. There are large numbers of these scamsters operating in Thailand either to target marks in Thailand or abroad. The police seemed forced to take action in this case because someone sadly died as a result of it but normally they only bother with the even larger number of scams that target Thais. These businesses are very lucrative and the police get nice rake offs for letting the scams operate under their noses along with the large number of foreigners working in them on tourist visas. The scams range from selling outright fraud involving transfer of funds and nothing received in return to unqualified investment advisors selling real but sub-standard investment products with outrageously high fee structures and penalties for early redemption. Many of the scamsters are brazenly members of the British or American Chambers of Commerce and expat clubs, which accept membership from anyone willing to pay the fees, and pose as upright pillars of the expat community. There is even an outfit selling a football fund which is rather clever as it creates instant resonance with football crazy retirees. One boiler room operator was allegedly involved in the murder of his business rival and managed to get bail and have the charges dismissed for lack of evidence. Just like the case of Chalerm's son, no one else was ever arrested for the murder.

I have had many of these investment scam calls since the time I lived in Hong Kong. It is easy to put the phone down on most of them but the funniest one I ever got was some one trying to sell my a stake in a tree farm in Sri Lanka with the investments sold as units of trees planted, just like the Mae Chamoy oil fund Ponzi in Thailand in the 80s where she sold the whole or parts of an oil truck, i.e. whole truck, just the tank part, or two wheels etc. I was so intrigued by the tree fund concept that I listened for quite some time and almost forgot to tell the guy to f*** off. I took the opportunity to duck out when he was passing the phone to his "boss", who had apparently just come from the airport after a "wildly successful trip to Sri Lanka", to close the deal.

[jshorts]

I do not disagree with the above comments as to how low these individuals are on the evolutionary scale, but come on!!! People get into these scams because they want to make easy money NOW. They let their own greed dupe them into believing the scammer. It is a shame that someone had to lose his life as a result of this scam, but sooner or later one has to believe what we have always been told: "If it sounds too good to be true, it is".

Are you blaming the victim?

[hellodolly]

I hope the precise nature of the call centre scam will be revealed as a warning to others. There are large numbers of these scamsters operating in Thailand either to target marks in Thailand or abroad. The police seemed forced to take action in this case because someone sadly died as a result of it but normally they only bother with the even larger number of scams that target Thais. These businesses are very lucrative and the police get nice rake offs for letting the scams operate under their noses along with the large number of foreigners working in them on tourist visas. The scams range from selling outright fraud involving transfer of funds and nothing received in return to unqualified investment advisors selling real but sub-standard investment products with outrageously high fee structures and penalties for early redemption. Many of the scamsters are brazenly members of the British or American Chambers of Commerce and expat clubs, which accept membership from anyone willing to pay the fees, and pose as upright pillars of the expat community. There is even an outfit selling a football fund which is rather clever as it creates instant resonance with football crazy retirees. One boiler room operator was allegedly involved in the murder of his business rival and managed to get bail and have the charges dismissed for lack of evidence. Just like the case of Chalerm's son, no one else was ever arrested for the murder.

I have had many of these investment scam calls since the time I lived in Hong Kong. It is easy to put the phone down on most of them but the funniest one I ever got was some one trying to sell my a stake in a tree farm in Sri Lanka with the investments sold as units of trees planted, just like the Mae Chamoy oil fund Ponzi in Thailand in the 80s where she sold the whole or parts of an oil truck, i.e. whole truck, just the tank part, or two wheels etc. I was so intrigued by the tree fund concept that I listened for quite some time and almost forgot to tell the guy to <deleted> off. I took the opportunity to duck out when he was passing the phone to his "boss", who had apparently just come from the airport after a "wildly successful trip to Sri Lanka", to close the deal.

Care to tell us all how you know these intimate details of scammers?

[jshorts]

Complete and utter scum, scum, scum. These scumbags are standing in bars throughout Thailand boasting about their antics. I met two in CM recently, and I gave them both barrels, they weren't expecting that.

Ostracise these people, if they walk into your bar then walk out, they spend their days picking the pockets of pensioners and others.

There is no middle ground, don't let this scum think they are welcome anywhere near you. They are a disgrace to the human race.

Well it is bad....but there are a lot much worse things than cheating some money out of pensioners who think to make an unreasonable profit.

And, your point is . . .?

[hellodolly]

It is always amusing to read some of these posts that start off with, how can

Reminds me of my old Criminology instructor.

He said that most people think the whole world is just like their back yard.

Many people need to get out and travel a little bit. Greed, Hope, Desperation and lack of mental conditions the same as other people's are just part of the reason.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory and insensitive posts and replies have been removed.

[jerrysteve]

During the Great Depression in the 1920s many people jumped out of windows and killed themselves because they lost all their money.

Its is not too unusual for some people to do that today, when they have lost all their money.

I believe Bangkok has been a hotbed of confidence schemes. So its nothing new.

[harryfrompattaya]

@mel

Your over analysing, I know victims, and I have met guys boasting about it in CM bars. I know what I know, and I know these guys are scum.

I feel the the Victims today were the Scam artist yesterday just charging places. One has to be careful but the truly honest are. I never met a con artist who was not con by a bigger con artist. It is all a con. Become a Christian Monk and be saved

[harryfrompattaya]

I do not disagree with the above comments as to how low these individuals are on the evolutionary scale, but come on!!! People get into these scams because they want to make easy money NOW. They let their own greed dupe them into believing the scammer. It is a shame that someone had to lose his life as a result of this scam, but sooner or later one has to believe what we have always been told: "If it sounds too good to be true, it is".

Yes, the scammers are scum, but the people who are pulled into these things are gullible and greedy. The fact that this guy was British or a soldier or whatever is largely irrelevant. Scammers thrive because vulnerable people exist. If someone tells you he can turn dross into gold or that you can make fantastic returns in dubious investments and you believe it, you should have someone else manage your affairs.

Bernie Madoff fooled loads of "really smart " people, businesses and charities in his $50 billion scam for one reason, his victims were all more greedy than they were sensble.

Well said right on

[BookMan]

I do not disagree with the above comments as to how low these individuals are on the evolutionary scale, but come on!!! People get into these scams because they want to make easy money NOW. They let their own greed dupe them into believing the scammer. It is a shame that someone had to lose his life as a result of this scam, but sooner or later one has to believe what we have always been told: "If it sounds too good to be true, it is".

True for some, not for all. Please don't be offended however your attitude is part of the problem, you are not recognizing the scale and sophistication of this scourge.

Anyone that's interested, google SAS Fire and Security Services, this company was exposed in Scotland, convicted in England. They took £18 million in 3 years using the techniques that the boiler room scum use.

£18 million in 3 years.

They bullied, lied, intimidated, harassed and used up to 29 techniques that are banned by the Office of Fair Trading.

The boiler room boys are in Thailand because of it's lax attitude to this type of scam. Go on youtube and search for boiler room calls. Your blood will run cold the next time you see this scum when you really understand what they do for a living.

The victims truly are victims, don't give this scum the time of day.

Too true.

And when as you stated, you hear these people bragging about what they do in bars. It makes me want to spit on the ground at their feet.

Some foreigners see working in these boiler rooms as a way to survive and stay in Thailand?

.

It is despicable stuff and the people working at any level in this scam have no plausible defence of their actions

[Baerboxer]

I can't see the relevance of mentioning the alledged victims former occupation other that to make the Military appear gullable.

The relevance is he was a soldier, therefore he gave a lot more than the average punter to keep people's freedoms, etc.. Therefore someone more entitled to a comfortable retirement but it was stolen from him.

You get the spiel; the same media spin as in all firemen being hero's because of their losses on 9/11. Personally, I reckon anyone that choses a career with the likelihood of being shot or entails regularly running into burning buildings as a bit suss.

"as a bit suss" - you mean till you need someone to protect your country and freedoms for you; or rescue you from a fire or other danger.

[MEL1]

I can't see the relevance of mentioning the alledged victims former occupation other that to make the Military appear gullable.

The relevance is he was a soldier, therefore he gave a lot more than the average punter to keep people's freedoms, etc.. Therefore someone more entitled to a comfortable retirement but it was stolen from him.

You get the spiel; the same media spin as in all firemen being hero's because of their losses on 9/11. Personally, I reckon anyone that choses a career with the likelihood of being shot or entails regularly running into burning buildings as a bit suss.

"as a bit suss" - you mean till you need someone to protect your country and freedoms for you; or rescue you from a fire or other danger.

Or a teacher to teach you what you know, or a nurse to deal with your burn, or a doctor to make a life decision for you, or a policeman to protect your wife in danger, or cleaner to clean your shit off the bog seat?

Get real!

-mel.

[MEL1]

@mel

Your over analysing, I know victims, and I have met guys boasting about it in CM bars. I know what I know, and I know these guys are scum.

I wonder if your initial responses would have been exactly the same if the headline had read, "Indonesian ex-chef scammed out of savings and commits suicide" ???

I very very very much doubt it! ,,, in fact I doubt you would have even mentioned half the content you have, nor your initial response.

-mel.

[pacovl46]

I don't get how someone can fall for this shit!!! If anyone was to call me out of the blue to do some investment I would tell them to get the *snip* lost!!!

Edited June 8, 2012 by metisdead
: Profanity removed.

[katana]

There were 10 people arrested in all, comprised of 6 Filipino women and 4 Westerner men. Two of the 4 men were American and the other 2 Brits.

The scam involved luring people into investing into gold, oil, jewellery and stocks and shares in the name of a company called Flash Point Media Sign (SP?). There were promises of 20% returns, however none of the returns were ever realised since the companies were of course all bogus.

The 39 year-old American leader of the gang, claims a foreign investor had set up the website, and they didn't know they were actually working for a call centre scam operation.

http://manager.co.th...D=9550000069639

[ttelise]

Complete and utter scum, scum, scum. These scumbags are standing in bars throughout Thailand boasting about their antics. I met two in CM recently, and I gave them both barrels, they weren't expecting that.

Ostracise these people, if they walk into your bar then walk out, they spend their days picking the pockets of pensioners and others.

There is no middle ground, don't let this scum think they are welcome anywhere near you. They are a disgrace to the human race.

Well it is bad....but there are a lot much worse things than cheating some money out of pensioners who think to make an unreasonable profit.

What could be worse than conning the particularly vulnerable fixed incomers who probably cannot think well or perhaps even confuse the caller as a friend or family member and agree to provide information that results in draining of their life savings without means to recoup the losses to survive their remaining years.

The US has law to protect the particularly vulnerable who are placed in a position of trust such as young children and the elderly. Elderly hitting early or late stages of dementia who have little or no surviving family are likely to believe most anything and in some situations may just be happy to have someone to talk to.

Failure to see this for what it is is perhaps a complete lapse in judgment, lack of moral character or a reflection of your own situation.

[travelmann]

How could a retired British soldier be duped into surrendering his life savings by a guy in that picture with the #2 tattooed on his arm? What was the con? And then he committed suicide? The embassy reported that he comiited suicide as the result of losing his money to this scam? How is all this possible?

It's a numbers game, these centres will be making 500 plus calls per day, the first team will be hoping to pass about 10 leads to the closing team per day, the closing team will be hoping to close 2 or 3 deals per day.

Let's say 2 at 200k baht each, 400k a day. They then go back and tell the investor that their investment has gond great, they issue certificates and bonus reports, then go back in for more, maybe 1 million baht the next time. They keep going back to the same vulnerable people with the same scammy scummy story.

There was a recent case in the UK where an older man was fleeced for £120,000 sterling.

Their game is to hunt down the vulnerable then fleece them, yes the story indicates it was a retired soldier, how old was he? 50? 70?....was he a widower? On medication? Who knows, but that is the type of people these scum are looking for.

heres an interesting story involving TALK TALK UK my Dad has had a long term slow speed problem with their broadband at 100kbps and it should be 1mb+, everytime he calls their call centre in India about an hour later another call comes in from someone alleging to be able to "fix his computer" and asking for remote access and credit card info.

The conversation starts with " we understand you are having problems with your computer" and being elderly ie 86 yrs old my dad says yes thinking its Talk Talk following up.

It quite obvious to me Talk Talks Indian call centres are passing on phone numbers when they get a problem to do this scam.

I dont see any difference though between the b**ch who took that guys money ( Lake Palmer) off Louis Theroux's show and these people they are all scum.

[travelmann]

I don't get how someone can fall for this shit!!! If anyone was to call me out of the blue to do some investment I would tell them to get the *snip* lost!!!

LKet us know when you are in your 70's and 80's if you still wont fall for it.

[theblether]

@mel

Your over analysing, I know victims, and I have met guys boasting about it in CM bars. I know what I know, and I know these guys are scum.

I wonder if your initial responses would have been exactly the same if the headline had read, "Indonesian ex-chef scammed out of savings and commits suicide" ???

I very very very much doubt it! ,,, in fact I doubt you would have even mentioned half the content you have, nor your initial response.

-mel.

Your really scraping the bottom of the credibiity barrel now. Sometimes it's better to not respond mel1.

So let's make it personal.

I personally know two elderly people who have been scammed.0

I have personally met 2 men who boasted about their boiler room tactics.

I met them in Chiang Mai, Thailand.

I have never met an Indonesian chef that has been ripped off. I am quite sure if I had I would be equally virulent in my defence of said chef.

What, really, is your point?

[David006]

It is not only the oldsters that are targeted..not sure how the scammers would know the age group of the targets...

....wife gets these sort of calls atleast once a month from people professing to be from our bank. ( a mobile # comes up on her phone.!!!)..

....I guess the prime object in these cases is to get pin #s etc....Many Thai people are subject to these low life's and either through fear or misplaced respect for perceived authority get scammed.

If there was a hotline for reporting this sort of thing it may be worthwhile reporting but otherwise probably a waste of time....

[Considered Opinion]

I can't see the relevance of mentioning the alledged victims former occupation other that to make the Military appear gullable.

Most "retired" British Soldiers, continue to be called "major", long after their usefulness has faded.