Proposed Uk Settlement Visa Changes

[bobrussell]

The new rules have been worded to leave little scope for variation and compassion. They seem to be created in a manner that just says 'if you don't earn enough you don't come'.

The inflexibility is my main concern about the rules.

I suspect you will get nowhere with this argument but someone more expert may have other ideas.

[7by7]

As far as I am aware, as your child will, presumably, be British and so wont need a visa, you wont need to satisfy the income requirement for children; which sort of makes a nonsense of the whole thing! According to these new rules a family with immigrant children needs more income than a family with British ones; ridiculous!

Other than that your husband will have to meet all the current requirements of the immigration rules, including the financial one. You being pregnant does not alter that.

I agree that the income levels have been set way too high. But until and unless these are challenged in the courts and then only if the courts find against the government; we'll have to live with them.

[durhamboy]

Seems to be a lot of talk in this topic about legal challenges so I thought I'd share my experience about this. My ex-wife is Filipino and about 10 years ago I sued the Home Office (i.e. UKBA now). To cut a long story short I had to make 2 settlement visa appications and payments because the Home Office couldn't process her paperwork in time - anyone remember Lunar House (aka Lunatic House!)? Anyway the Judge sympathised with my case but said that the Home Office "owed no duty of care" to the applicant (my wife) nor even to the Sponsor (me) and threw out my case.

Afterwards the Home Office lawyer came up to me and said "Why did you sue us?". It was a really icy and snowing day in Chelmsford and I said to him "Nothing personal mate but as you trudge through the snow back to London multiply your feelings by a 1000 and you will then know why I did it!"

Bottom line is unfortunately dont bother suing in an English Court - now European Court of Human Rights that may be different!

[kateharper]

But my husbands finances don't even come into it when applying!! I have to sponsor him, how can i do that if i am pregnant??? We were trying before we knew of these ridiculous changes and were able to apply and had everything ready. So i can't go home and work and try to earn 18,600 pounds a year without my husband, so what are the options?? Or is simply, no you, your husband and your British citizen baby can't come home because you don't earn enough money?? So frustrating!

[VisasPlus]

But my husbands finances don't even come into it when applying!! I have to sponsor him, how can i do that if i am pregnant??? We were trying before we knew of these ridiculous changes and were able to apply and had everything ready. So i can't go home and work and try to earn 18,600 pounds a year without my husband, so what are the options?? Or is simply, no you, your husband and your British citizen baby can't come home because you don't earn enough money?? So frustrating!

You are right, these changes hit certain people hard. But, as you rightly say, you are the sponsor, so how were you going to show adequate financial support before these changes were introduced ? You still had to show that you could support and maintain him in the UK.

You can supplement income below the 18,600 limit from savings, and there is a calculation to tell you how much you would need. If you have no income (no employment, for instance) then the required savings would be 62,500 GBP. That amount could be "gifted" to you by a relative, but you would have to show that it is a genuine gift, and that you have had it under your control for at least 6 months.

[7by7]

Indeed. The level required is, I think we all agree, way to high. But as VP says, before the changes you would have needed to show that you could support yourselves without recourse to public funds.

Whilst there was no set limit, the convention, based on case law, was the income support level for a family of the same size, currently about £110 per week for a couple, plus housing costs.

With neither you nor your husband working, how would you have met that?

durhamboy, I'm no legal expert so may be wrong; but I believe that plaintiffs cannot go straight to the European Courts. I think that before someone can pursue a case in a European Court one has to have exhausted all legal avenues in one's home country first.

[sorted]

Can anyone advise on third party sponsors as of August 2012,i have been living in thailand for a number of years so can a family member be my wifes sponsor who would have the correct criteria.

I just want to add that i have one child who of course has a British passport does this make a difference to the finanical criteria.

Also im i right to presume that if i had 62,000 pounds in the bank for six months and the english test requirement has been completed then this would be good enough for my wife to get the settlement visa.

[7by7]

I have merged your three posts.

1) Third party support is no longer acceptable. You can use money gifted to you by a family member or friend; but it must have been in your possession and under your complete control for at least 6 months prior to the application.

2) As a British child does not need a visa then that child will not be included in the financial requirement.

3) She would have satisfied the financial and language requirements; but there is more to getting a settlement visa than that. See UK Settlement Visa Basics.

[sorted]

Thank u for your reply very helpful indeed just to add on from the above.Do u know if u have the correct criteria as in all the correct documents is it certain that u will be accepted for the settlement visa,or could it be that i leave the funds in the bank for 6 months apply for the visa and they say no even though i have all what is required.

[7by7]

If all the criteria, not just the financial one, for the visa applied for are met then the visa should be be issued.

If it isn't then settlement visa refusals do have the right of appeal.

Remember that the onus is on the applicant to provide the necessary evidence that they meet the requirements and qualify for the visa.

[Khonwan]

I had been toying with the idea of returning to UK with my family for 3 years only, simply to secure a UK passport for my wife (our children have UK passports), to enable her to settle there after my eventual demise (probably in 2-3 decades from now, but who knows). I now see that the new rules would require us to live there for 5 years, which I’m not prepared to do…so I guess that’s the end of the matter.

If I were I still interested, could we satisfy the minimum £18,600 income requirement based on continuing self-employed earnings in Thailand, without the need to work in UK? Our income in Thailand would not be affected should we return to UK, and well exceeds £18,600pa. Or would we need to show savings of £62,500 at initial and subsequent applications until completion of the 5 years (assuming neither of us bothered to work in UK)?

[VisasPlus]

I had been toying with the idea of returning to UK with my family for 3 years only, simply to secure a UK passport for my wife (our children have UK passports), to enable her to settle there after my eventual demise (probably in 2-3 decades from now, but who knows). I now see that the new rules would require us to live there for 5 years, which I’m not prepared to do…so I guess that’s the end of the matter.

If I were I still interested, could we satisfy the minimum £18,600 income requirement based on continuing self-employed earnings in Thailand, without the need to work in UK? Our income in Thailand would not be affected should we return to UK, and well exceeds £18,600pa. Or would we need to show savings of £62,500 at initial and subsequent applications until completion of the 5 years (assuming neither of us bothered to work in UK)?

It's an interesting question, and I don't see that it is covered by the guidance on financial requirements. The requirements talk only about self-employment in the UK, and require documentation from, for example, HMRC to confirm. The requirements are:

In respect of self-employment – partnership, sole trader, franchise: evidence of all of the following must be submitted:

•

The amount of tax payable for the last financial year; the amount of tax paid for the last financial year; and the amount of any unpaid tax for the last financial year.

•

Latest annual self-assessment tax return to HMRC and Statement of Account (SA300 or SA302). If necessary, the same for the previous financial year if the latest return does not show the necessary level of income, but the average of the last 2 financial years does.

•

Proof of registration with HMRC as self-employed. Proof of registration must be original or certified copy of documentation issued by HMRC only.

•

Each partner’s Unique Tax Reference Number (UTR) and/or the UTR of the partnership or business.

•

Where the person holds or held a separate business bank account(s), monthly bank statements for the same 12-month period as the tax return(s).

•

Monthly personal bank statements for the same 12-month period as the tax return(s). These statements must show that the income from self-employment has been paid into the person’s account.

17

•

Evidence of ongoing self-employment: for self-employed persons, evidence of payment of Class 2 National Insurance contributions. For Directors, Current Appointment Reports from Companies House.

One of the following documents must also be submitted:

•

Organisation’s latest annual audited accounts with the name of the accountant clearly shown. The accountant must be a member of an accredited accounting body (CIMA, CIPFA, ACCA, ACA, etc).

•

Certificate of VAT registration and latest VAT return confirming VAT registration number if turnover in excess of £73,000.

•

Evidence to show appropriate planning permission or local planning authority consent is held to operate the type/class of business at the trading address (where this is a local authority requirement).

•

Franchise agreement signed by both parties. This is a mandatory document for any organisation that is a franchise.

I think that you would have to go down the "savings" route to meet the financial requirement, and meet that same requirement at each stage.

[Khonwan]

Thank you, VisasPlus. I had searched the internet, including the UK gov. sites, and could find nothing relating to my query. I’m sure, though, that there must be a great many people sharing my circumstances. My particular situation would make it very difficult to satisfy any of your stated requirements in evidence of self-employment since much of our income is from farming and is therefore tax free. Thank you again.

[sorted]

Please advise am i correct to say u can work on a 2 year settlement visa.

[VisasPlus]

Please advise am i correct to say u can work on a 2 year settlement visa.

I'm not sure what your question is. Under the old rules a settlement visa was essentially entry for 2 years leading to Indefinite Leave to Remain. Under the new rules ( if that is what you are asking ) the initial entry will be for 30 months ( the visa validity will actually be 33 months ), after which the applicant will have to apply for a further 30 months Limited Leave to Remain ( a total of 5 years ) before being able to apply for ILR. But, yes, he or she can work during that 5 year period leading up to ILR.

[MaprangHolmes]

on a different note it is better then what you can get in Thailand ie: 1 year extensions try and get permanent residence in Thailand that is not easy..

The new rules say you need 18,600 but in Thailand you need 400,000 or about £8,100 if you take into account the difference in cost of living I would expect the amounts are not too far apart

So if you look at in that way it may not look so bad!!

[sorted]

Ok if my wife has been in the uk on a 2 year settlement visa and i want her to have a another 2 year visa can she do that in the uk.Also is the criteria the same as in show 18,600 earnings or 62,500 in the bank.Also the new system new rules from 9 july this year say regarding 62,500 is showing bank statements enough or do i need a letter from the bank to confirm my statements or do they contact the bank directly for that.

[7by7]

As she applied for her original settlement visa before 9th July 2012 she comes under the old rules.

She will need to have obtained at least A1 of the CEFR in English speaking and listening from an approved provider in order to apply for FLR, unless she did so for her original application.

See Applying from inside the UK for more.

Why FLR; why not ILR?

[sorted]

Application was made after the 9 july so if my wife was given a 2 year settlement if i went to apply for another 2 year visa in the uk i would not need to show salary or money in the bank as i did in the first application.Also are bank statements enough or do they want a letter from the bank or do they check themselves.

[7by7]

I'm confused, now.

Is she in the UK and applying for FLR, or is she in Thailand and applying for her initial settlement visa?

If the former then she comes under the old rules; see my previous.

If the latter she comes under the new rules.

[fineleg]

I have a few queries relating to the new law that I hope some of you may be able to advise on.

I am a UK citizen who is planning to move back to th UK with my Thai civil partner. However we don't meet the new financial requirements (salary or savings). I haven't earnt £18,600 in the last year and I haven't yet found a job in the UK. Our most likely course of action is for me to return to the UK, find a job on the required salary level, work in said job for 6 months and then apply for my partner's visa. Obviously, we'll be apart for a minimum of 9 months. We are also considering the "savings" route by raising some funds by selling a property.

I've skimmed through the "Statement of Purpose" a few times now and have read through a lot of this thread, which has been invaluable. However there are a few queries which I would be grateful if some of you experts could help with.

1. I've just read section 163., which I think I must have missed previously

"In respect of earnings from salaried employment

Employment can be full-time or part-time.

Employment can be permanent, a fixed-term contract or with an agency."

Does this mean I can consider any type of work when I go back, whether hourly paid, temporary or whatever as long as I can show I have earnt above £9,300 (1/2 X £18,600) after 6 months? I had previously thought that the job had to be permanent. Could I have a number of temporary (casual) jobs, while I am finding my feet back in the UK, as long as I can show all the pay-slips ,etc.?

2. We are also considering raising some savings by selling our property in Thailand to cover any shortfall in salary. If the money from the sale was in my partner's (the applicant's) bank account in Thailand, would this count toward the savings requirement? Or would the money need to be transferred to my bank account in England? The property is, in fact, almost worth £62,500. I realise this would also take time to put into place.

3. Is credit card debt taken off the savings figure, or just not considered? For instance, could you have £62,500 in savings, yet also owe £10,000 on a credit card and be successful without needing to show earnings.

4. Also in section 163, it states

"Where the applicant and sponsor are in the UK, the sponsor may work overseas, subject to the sponsor being settled in the UK and the couple intending to live together permanently in the UK." Does this mean that if we managed to get my partner's visa, I could also consider working abroad at some point during the 5 year "probationary" period?

5. If my partner reached the ILR status after 5 years, are we then free to come and go from the UK without worries about visas?

6. A minor point. If you showed savings of, say, £41,000, but that amount didn’t include any recent interest accrued in respect of those savings (about £1000 PA based on 2.5%), could that £1,000 interest also be used toward the income requirement.

7. One last thing, I think it’s been mooted that there are likely to be further reforms next year. With it likely to take the best part of a year to get everything in place to meet current rules, I am slightly concerned that we’ll be facing a mad rush to apply at some point next year, fearing a further rise to the financial requirements. Have there been any suggestions as to when there are likely to be further changes? Is it likely to be in the latter part of 2013? Until recently, I haven’t really followed immigration rules that closely, so I don’t really have any feeling as to how often significant changes to the law are made.

Thank you in advance for any advice relating to any of my queries. I'll post this before I think of something else.

Edited August 22, 2012 by fineleg

[bobrussell]

Easiest one is the credit card debt. In the statement of intent it states:

79.

The Government is not looking to draw up a personal financial balance sheet for each sponsor (outgoings, credit card and other debts, mortgage, etc), but taking £18,600 as a benchmark for financial stability and independence on the part of the sponsor or the couple. We recognise that their circumstances may change over time, so they will be reassessed when the applicant applies for further leave to remain and for indefinite leave to remain (settlement).

Clearly they have decided that £18,600 opens the magic door!

[7by7]

To be honest, I still haven't got my head round all the changes, but based on what I have read I will answer as best I can.

1) You can have as many jobs as you wish; full time, part time; permanent, contract or agency. But you must be able to show that your total annual income is, and will continue to be, at least £18600. Not just for the initial visa application, but also for the extension after 30 months and ILR after 5 years

2) Potential income the applicant may receive once in the UK will not be taking into account at the initial visa stage; but any savings the applicant has will be. So the money could be in either account.

The regulations state that savings must have been 'under the applicant or sponsor's control', for at least 6 months; I'm not sure if the proceeds of a house sale would count until the money had been in an account for that time.

Obviously for the 30 months extension and ILR the applicant's income, if any, will be taken into account.

3) One of the stupid things about this new financial requirement is that it is a fixed figure of income, savings or combination of both. It takes no account of debt repayments or other outgoings.

4) Yes, as long as you were 'settled in the UK.' That is, working overseas on a contract basis, not living overseas while your partner lived in the UK.

5) Not quite. ILR will lapse if the holder is out of the UK for a continuous period of 2 years or more. If your partner then wished to reenter the UK again in any capacity s/he would need to obtain the appropriate visa. Furthermore, if it became apparent to an immigration officer at a UK port of entry that a person was living outside the UK and using their ILR for visits then the ILR would be canceled, although they would be allowed in as a visitor on that occasion.

Once your partner has ILR they can then apply for British citizenship. Once they have that, they can leave and reenter the UK as often and for as long as they wish; same as any other British citizen. Both Thailand and the UK allow dual citizenship.

BTW, you partner is not stuck in the UK for the next 5 years; s/he is allowed out for holidays etc whilst qualifying for ILR.

6) They will take whatever figure the account statement shows to be in the account on the day.

7) The government have not, to my knowledge, announced any further changes, but that doesn't mean there wont be any!

The application fees do go up every April, above inflation, and I would not be surprised if the financial requirement is not also increased each year.

I think my replies are accurate, hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I will confirm or correct where necessary.

[fineleg]

7by7, bobrussell,

your replies are most appreciated, and have clarified a number of issues for me - Thanks so much.

7by7, Yes, I realise that it is early days since the rules were introduced, and it sure is difficult to know exactly how they will be applied. However, your comments are really useful and you seem to have, in fact, "got your head around" a lot of the changes. Yes, my partner is a 'he'. We've already entered a civil partnership and have been in an LTR (8 years) and he's already been to UK with me on 3 visitors visas. So that should all help, hopefully, toward the eventual application.

Cheers guys.A great help!

[sorted]

The posts here have helped very much so just what i want to confirm is 62,500 pounds savings for 6 months and ESOL Level 1 is required correct yes.I would like to ask what is the difference between 2 year settlement and getting my wife to the UK on a spouse visa including criteria required.

Edited August 29, 2012 by 7by7
Font normalised, please do not post all in bold.

[sorted]

Sorry another question can i have my savings of 62,500 in my Bangkok Bank ie in baht so what would be the amount in baht.

[7by7]

ESOL level one is not required for the initial visa; what is required is A1 of the CEFR in speaking and listening; a lot lower standard than ESOL level 1, or even ESOL entry level 1.

The savings must have been in your possession and under your control for at least 6 months. Which bank, what country and what currency doesn't matter.

The '2 year settlement' does not exist anymore; under the old rules a person entering the UK as a spouse etc. for settlement purposes had to be resident in the UK for at least 2 years before qualifying for ILR; under the new rules it's 5 years.

For more see UK Settlement Visa Basics.

[sorted]

The 2 year settlement is now the spouse visa which is in fact a 30 month visa is that correct please explain thank u.

[sorted]

Further to add are u saying the new visa is a spouse visa which lasts 5 years.

[7by7]

The initial visa is valid for 33 months. After the holder has lived in the UK for at least 30 months they have to apply for an extension of another 30 months. At the end of this second period, after they have lived in the UK for at least 5 years, they will be time qualified for ILR.

See the link in my previous for fuller details.