Behind The New Surge In The Thai-US Alliance: Opinion

[Thighlander]

she looks good

[h90]

The notion that Obama might win is far fetched at best. The mainstream media which is full of liberal arts majors from liberal arts colleges can't stand to think that he may not win but even before the Wisconsin landslide last week, Romney is a shoe in. If you see polls to the contrary, look to the source and it will be either Time, CNN/ORC, or some other liberal outlet.

That being said, I would surely think it's better to be aligned with the US, broke as we are, than a communist regime even if they are the biggest. Who wants to be a commie, not me !

It is more communism+capitalism: The worst of two systems..... Because the good things of communism are complete left out.

In the Soviet everyone had a job, no worry about a place to live, gasoline for free, free education no pressure at work and free medical treatments......I can't see these few good things....

[crobe]

Romney is a shoe in. If you see polls to the contrary, look to the source and it will be either Time, CNN/ORC, or some other liberal outlet.

Latest polls

Rasmussen Obama 46 - Romney 47

Gallup Obama 46 Romney 47

Fox news Obama 43 - Romney 43

Monmouth/SurveyUSA/Braun Obama 47 Romney 46

When you make statement like " a shoe-in" you leave yourself looking an idiot when the actual facts are different.

With the margin of error and so many undecided, there is no evidence that either candidate is a shoe-in at this point

However, I am pleased that you think that Fox news must be some liberal outlet - your politics must be slightly to the right of...well of anyone

Crobe

[Yunla]

Not surprised the sleazy tinpot dictatorship of PTP are interested in the Obama thing. Obama is just a novelty glovepuppet for the Bilderberg Group, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the Trilateral Commission, and those three agencies also own every single person he has elected to office since he came to office. Obama is harbinger of the next generation of of corporate turbofascists imo. CFR, TC, BG are busy fighting covert mineral wars against the Chinese in Africa. Maybe Thailand's proximity to China makes it a useful ally for Obama. In this one regard I would say Thailand's corrupted infrastructure, its brainless redsquirt regime and its relatively low geovalue makes it not worth the hassle for the new world bank, and that is a blessing for normal Thai citizens, at least for the near future. Maybe they're just here for the bar girls. Of course I could be wrong. Nice photo op though.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Yunla

[simple1]

Not surprised the sleazy tinpot dictatorship of PTP are interested in the Obama thing. Obama is just a novelty glovepuppet for the Bilderberg Group, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the Trilateral Commission, and those three agencies also own every single person he has elected to office since he came to office. Obama is harbinger of the next generation of of corporate turbofascists imo. CFR, TC, BG are busy fighting covert mineral wars against the Chinese in Africa. Maybe Thailand's proximity to China makes it a useful ally for Obama. In this one regard I would say Thailand's corrupted infrastructure, its brainless redsquirt regime and its relatively low geovalue makes it not worth the hassle for the new world bank, and that is a blessing for normal Thai citizens, at least for the near future. Maybe they're just here for the bar girls. Of course I could be wrong. Nice photo op though.

Are you a US citizen? if so can you clarify why some Americans call Obama a fascist - do you understand the definition of a fascist?

[geriatrickid]

The notion that Obama might win is far fetched at best. The mainstream media which is full of liberal arts majors from liberal arts colleges can't stand to think that he may not win but even before the Wisconsin landslide last week, Romney is a shoe in. If you see polls to the contrary, look to the source and it will be either Time, CNN/ORC, or some other liberal outlet.

That being said, I would surely think it's better to be aligned with the US, broke as we are, than a communist regime even if they are the biggest. Who wants to be a commie, not me !

China is not a communist regime. It is to communism as the Republican Party in the USA is to law and order. The Chinese "communists" function as a totalitarian enterprise focused on profitability and of securing raw materials, resources and markets to maintain China Inc. Thailand is a source of resources. The US Republicans protected the perpetrators of the US financial crisis and advocate government interference in basic individual liberties (e.g. a woman's right to control her uterus). The reds you see hiding under your bed are most likely the dirty clothes and dustbunnies, and nothing else.

[edko]

The notion that Obama might win is far fetched at best. The mainstream media which is full of liberal arts majors from liberal arts colleges can't stand to think that he may not win but even before the Wisconsin landslide last week, Romney is a shoe in. If you see polls to the contrary, look to the source and it will be either Time, CNN/ORC, or some other liberal outlet.

That being said, I would surely think it's better to be aligned with the US, broke as we are, than a communist regime even if they are the biggest. Who wants to be a commie, not me !

China is not a communist regime. It is to communism as the Republican Party in the USA is to law and order. The Chinese "communists" function as a totalitarian enterprise focused on profitability and of securing raw materials, resources and markets to maintain China Inc. Thailand is a source of resources. The US Republicans protected the perpetrators of the US financial crisis and advocate government interference in basic individual liberties (e.g. a woman's right to control her uterus). The reds you see hiding under your bed are most likely the dirty clothes and dustbunnies, and nothing else.

I studied China as an Asian Studies major in the 1970's. Even back then (and I'm sure before) there was a debate about the Chinese Communists just being a new dynasty in the seemingless regular 300 year intervals of revolution, ascendence, decline, new revolution with the leader of the revolution becoming the new emporer. The one constant in Chinese culture is that the Chinese individual's real allegiance is only to his family and I think it could be argued that any loyalty to the state is coerced upon those below from the top. The only difference is that the new emporers come from within the party whereas the old was leadership passing in genetic descent. Emporer, premier...doesn't matter, still the common factor in Chinese history of a totalitarian state. Sorry about being so far off the original post.

[puyaidon]

I have read that the Thai ambassador to the US after Dec 7, 1941 met with the US Secretary of State to declare war on the US and he felt it was wrong and did not make the declaration. He became either the leader or a member of the Free Thai faction who worked with the Allies during World War Two. Because of the Thai ambassador's refusal, Thailand did not have to pay war reparations at the end of the war. Here is a quote from Wikileaks:

quote:

"In the aftermath of the Japanese invasion of Thailand on 7/8 December 1941, the regime of Plaek Pibulsonggram (Phibun) declared war on Britain and the United States on 25 January 1942. Seni Pramoj, the Thai ambassador in Washington, refused to deliver the declaration to the United States government. Accordingly, the United States refrained from declaring war on Thailand. Seni, a conservative aristocrat whose anti-Japanese credentials were well established, organized the Free Thai Movement with American assistance, recruiting Thai students in the United States to work with the United States Office of Strategic Services (OSS). The OSS trained Thai personnel for underground activities, and units were readied to infiltrate Thailand. By the end of the war, more than 50,000 Thai had been trained and armed to resist the Japanese."

unquote

If Thailand had been made to pay war reparations, you can believe that present-day Thailand would have very different feelings toward foreign countries. Amazing that a lot of Thais don't know about some of the Thai history and what happened after the establishment of the present-day type of government in 1932.

Edited June 11, 2012 by puyaidon

[hansnl]

Whom should the Thai's fear more China or USA?

http://brontecapital...leptocracy.html

Yes, a very true and for the uninitiated, a highly revealing explanation of the Chinese mind.

And, it sheds light on the ruling 10% in Thailand.

James Clavell wrote splendid stories about China/Hongkong.

Perfect reading material.

Hawaii, the masterpiece of James Michener, also gives a revealing insight in the Chinese.

I know, those books are fictional, but are well researched.

Highly recommended reading material, and very revealing.

[noitom]

After the Thais declared war on the United States and Britain on Dec 8, 1941, their relationship with the Japanese went south. The Japanese essentially turned Thailand into a colony and was very repressive. Some time around 1943, some Thais started getting behind a movement to reject the Japanese. The Thais started double dealing with the Chinese when it started to look like the Japanese might be defeated.

After the war, for whatever reason, the US biased the reparation discussions and punishment of the Thais. It is my understanding that the Thais did not get all their land back that they asked for from the border with Lao and that they had to pay a reparation to the British of 3 million tons of rice. Small price to pay for allowing the Japanese in to occupy Burma and build the Death Railway. Much of this is never discussed in Thai history classes.

[folium]

After the Thais declared war on the United States and Britain on Dec 8, 1941, their relationship with the Japanese went south. The Japanese essentially turned Thailand into a colony and was very repressive. Some time around 1943, some Thais started getting behind a movement to reject the Japanese. The Thais started double dealing with the Chinese when it started to look like the Japanese might be defeated.

After the war, for whatever reason, the US biased the reparation discussions and punishment of the Thais. It is my understanding that the Thais did not get all their land back that they asked for from the border with Lao and that they had to pay a reparation to the British of 3 million tons of rice. Small price to pay for allowing the Japanese in to occupy Burma and build the Death Railway. Much of this is never discussed in Thai history classes.

Thailand was a full blown ally of Japan's much as Italy was to Nazi Germany. But similar to Italy's relationship with Germany the Thais were regarded with suspicion especially as Allied bombing focused on Bangkok and the tide of the war appeared to be turning. This led to Phibun's overthrow in 1944.

The rice reparations were never made, the Brits ended up paying for rice exports! Similarly British efforts to incorporate the Kra Isthmus into Malaya were foiled by the OSS who had a strong anti-colonial attitude (to the extent that they were also helping the Viet Minh and Lao nationalists against the French!) So Phuket, Koh Samui could have been part of Malaya and the Pattani insurgency may never have been an issue...

Personal interest in all this as I was brought up with stories from 2 great uncles who served with Force 136 in Burma, Siam & Indonesia. Not great fans of the Japanese unsurprisingly as many of their colleagues in Force 136 were summarily executed on capture, nor the Americans for their political shenanigans!

Edited June 12, 2012 by folium

[folium]

Obama is just a novelty glovepuppet for the Bilderberg Group, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the Trilateral Commission, and those three agencies also own every single person he has elected to office since he came to office. Obama is harbinger of the next generation of of corporate turbofascists imo. CFR, TC, BG are busy fighting covert mineral wars against the Chinese in Africa.

Whoops, you are going all Wayne Madsen on us!!! Calm down dear!

[gand]

After the Thais declared war on the United States and Britain on Dec 8, 1941, their relationship with the Japanese went south. The Japanese essentially turned Thailand into a colony and was very repressive. Some time around 1943, some Thais started getting behind a movement to reject the Japanese. The Thais started double dealing with the Chinese when it started to look like the Japanese might be defeated.

After the war, for whatever reason, the US biased the reparation discussions and punishment of the Thais. It is my understanding that the Thais did not get all their land back that they asked for from the border with Lao and that they had to pay a reparation to the British of 3 million tons of rice. Small price to pay for allowing the Japanese in to occupy Burma and build the Death Railway. Much of this is never discussed in Thai history classes.

Thailand was a full blown ally of Japan's much as Italy was to Nazi Germany. But similar to Italy's relationship with Germany the Thais were regarded with suspicion especially as Allied bombing focused on Bangkok and the tide of the war appeared to be turning. This led to Phibun's overthrow in 1944.

The rice reparations were never made, the Brits ended up paying for rice exports! Similarly British efforts to incorporate the Kra Isthmus into Malaya were foiled by the OSS who had a strong anti-colonial attitude (to the extent that they were also helping the Viet Minh and Lao nationalists against the French!) So Phuket, Koh Samui could have been part of Malaya and the Pattani insurgency may never have been an issue...

Personal interest in all this as I was brought up with stories from 2 great uncles who served with Force 136 in Burma, Siam & Indonesia. Not great fans of the Japanese unsurprisingly as many of their colleagues in Force 136 were summarily executed on capture, nor the Americans for their political shenanigans!

So, out of curiosity, which countries political shenanigans do you prefer?

[h90]

After the Thais declared war on the United States and Britain on Dec 8, 1941, their relationship with the Japanese went south. The Japanese essentially turned Thailand into a colony and was very repressive. Some time around 1943, some Thais started getting behind a movement to reject the Japanese. The Thais started double dealing with the Chinese when it started to look like the Japanese might be defeated.

After the war, for whatever reason, the US biased the reparation discussions and punishment of the Thais. It is my understanding that the Thais did not get all their land back that they asked for from the border with Lao and that they had to pay a reparation to the British of 3 million tons of rice. Small price to pay for allowing the Japanese in to occupy Burma and build the Death Railway. Much of this is never discussed in Thai history classes.

Thailand was a full blown ally of Japan's much as Italy was to Nazi Germany. But similar to Italy's relationship with Germany the Thais were regarded with suspicion especially as Allied bombing focused on Bangkok and the tide of the war appeared to be turning. This led to Phibun's overthrow in 1944.

The rice reparations were never made, the Brits ended up paying for rice exports! Similarly British efforts to incorporate the Kra Isthmus into Malaya were foiled by the OSS who had a strong anti-colonial attitude (to the extent that they were also helping the Viet Minh and Lao nationalists against the French!) So Phuket, Koh Samui could have been part of Malaya and the Pattani insurgency may never have been an issue...

Personal interest in all this as I was brought up with stories from 2 great uncles who served with Force 136 in Burma, Siam & Indonesia. Not great fans of the Japanese unsurprisingly as many of their colleagues in Force 136 were summarily executed on capture, nor the Americans for their political shenanigans!

that lead to the strange idea of many Thais that they won the second worldwar almost twice. Being Nazis worship Hitler and telling that they weakened the Japanese that much that China had it easy to final beat them.

(no joke, I really got it explained like that)

[folium]

After the Thais declared war on the United States and Britain on Dec 8, 1941, their relationship with the Japanese went south. The Japanese essentially turned Thailand into a colony and was very repressive. Some time around 1943, some Thais started getting behind a movement to reject the Japanese. The Thais started double dealing with the Chinese when it started to look like the Japanese might be defeated.

After the war, for whatever reason, the US biased the reparation discussions and punishment of the Thais. It is my understanding that the Thais did not get all their land back that they asked for from the border with Lao and that they had to pay a reparation to the British of 3 million tons of rice. Small price to pay for allowing the Japanese in to occupy Burma and build the Death Railway. Much of this is never discussed in Thai history classes.

Thailand was a full blown ally of Japan's much as Italy was to Nazi Germany. But similar to Italy's relationship with Germany the Thais were regarded with suspicion especially as Allied bombing focused on Bangkok and the tide of the war appeared to be turning. This led to Phibun's overthrow in 1944.

The rice reparations were never made, the Brits ended up paying for rice exports! Similarly British efforts to incorporate the Kra Isthmus into Malaya were foiled by the OSS who had a strong anti-colonial attitude (to the extent that they were also helping the Viet Minh and Lao nationalists against the French!) So Phuket, Koh Samui could have been part of Malaya and the Pattani insurgency may never have been an issue...

Personal interest in all this as I was brought up with stories from 2 great uncles who served with Force 136 in Burma, Siam & Indonesia. Not great fans of the Japanese unsurprisingly as many of their colleagues in Force 136 were summarily executed on capture, nor the Americans for their political shenanigans!

So, out of curiosity, which countries political shenanigans do you prefer?

Strange question...simple answer- those that do the least harm!

[gand]

After the Thais declared war on the United States and Britain on Dec 8, 1941, their relationship with the Japanese went south. The Japanese essentially turned Thailand into a colony and was very repressive. Some time around 1943, some Thais started getting behind a movement to reject the Japanese. The Thais started double dealing with the Chinese when it started to look like the Japanese might be defeated.

After the war, for whatever reason, the US biased the reparation discussions and punishment of the Thais. It is my understanding that the Thais did not get all their land back that they asked for from the border with Lao and that they had to pay a reparation to the British of 3 million tons of rice. Small price to pay for allowing the Japanese in to occupy Burma and build the Death Railway. Much of this is never discussed in Thai history classes.

Thailand was a full blown ally of Japan's much as Italy was to Nazi Germany. But similar to Italy's relationship with Germany the Thais were regarded with suspicion especially as Allied bombing focused on Bangkok and the tide of the war appeared to be turning. This led to Phibun's overthrow in 1944.

The rice reparations were never made, the Brits ended up paying for rice exports! Similarly British efforts to incorporate the Kra Isthmus into Malaya were foiled by the OSS who had a strong anti-colonial attitude (to the extent that they were also helping the Viet Minh and Lao nationalists against the French!) So Phuket, Koh Samui could have been part of Malaya and the Pattani insurgency may never have been an issue...

Personal interest in all this as I was brought up with stories from 2 great uncles who served with Force 136 in Burma, Siam & Indonesia. Not great fans of the Japanese unsurprisingly as many of their colleagues in Force 136 were summarily executed on capture, nor the Americans for their political shenanigans!

So, out of curiosity, which countries political shenanigans do you prefer?

Strange question...simple answer- those that do the least harm!

And those would be?

[kerryk]

I have read that the Thai ambassador to the US after Dec 7, 1941 met with the US Secretary of State to declare war on the US and he felt it was wrong and did not make the declaration. He became either the leader or a member of the Free Thai faction who worked with the Allies during World War Two. Because of the Thai ambassador's refusal, Thailand did not have to pay war reparations at the end of the war. Here is a quote from Wikileaks:

quote:

"In the aftermath of the Japanese invasion of Thailand on 7/8 December 1941, the regime of Plaek Pibulsonggram (Phibun) declared war on Britain and the United States on 25 January 1942. Seni Pramoj, the Thai ambassador in Washington, refused to deliver the declaration to the United States government. Accordingly, the United States refrained from declaring war on Thailand. Seni, a conservative aristocrat whose anti-Japanese credentials were well established, organized the Free Thai Movement with American assistance, recruiting Thai students in the United States to work with the United States Office of Strategic Services (OSS). The OSS trained Thai personnel for underground activities, and units were readied to infiltrate Thailand. By the end of the war, more than 50,000 Thai had been trained and armed to resist the Japanese."

unquote

If Thailand had been made to pay war reparations, you can believe that present-day Thailand would have very different feelings toward foreign countries. Amazing that a lot of Thais don't know about some of the Thai history and what happened after the establishment of the present-day type of government in 1932.

This fiction gets dragged up every time WW II is mentioned. It's easy to figure out. Think for a second. 1. Can an Ambassador change the stated position of a country on something as important as a declaration of war? 2. When did the Flying Tigers first attack airfields in Chiang Mai? 3. How many bombing runs did America make against Bangkok and when?

Did the Free Thai movement actually do anything? Did they ever fight anyone anyplace? Who was the Prime Minister after the war in 1948?

The links you posted are fiction. I would imagine someone has gone to great lengths to place them on the INTERNET as fact but they are fiction nevertheless. Who would want to do that? You might want to read, “The Dragon's Pearl.”

[folium]

And those would be?

If you want to chat message me....