Expats In Thailand: Is Your Goal Here To "Integrate" Into Thai Society?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Interesting question, very good poll. And yes I also appreciate the simplicity of yes and no.

So between those two choices, I can only say 'yes'. Not sure it's a 'goal' though, or something that inevitably happens unless you'd actively resist it.

So I've pretty much "achieved" it, if it's a goal, of course. Possibly within the first two or three years. It's also hard to see what else would be left to do.. Job, married, kids, car, fluent in Thai, pay my taxes, receive social security/medical benefits, large number of local friends and colleagues (Thai and foreign), get along great with my extended family. I suppose I could acquire citizenship but that's essentially a government legal structure, and I'm not too big on that in any country; I need society in my life, but not the government. And my definition of integration is that this can be achieved without becoming a Thai citizen; we're not talking assimilation after all.

[Morakot]

"Integration" is the goal?? Isn't just a means to whatever one's goal is in life?

[NomadicDave]

My first thought was, well, of course I want to or why would I even consider retiring there?-which I am. After reading a number of the postings what seems to fit (now) is learning to respect their customs & culture as best I can. This would seem the very least one could do and, remain open-minded.

[jacktrip]

In a society where people are called "falang", good luck.

[Jingthing]

"Integration" is the goal?? Isn't just a means to whatever one's goal is in life?

No. Are we chameleons or men?

[flying]

This blog addresses the question rather directly. His response is to leave Thailand:

http://two.cedonulli...aving-thailand/

Of course that is his prerogative

But he is a bit of a contradiction when he states that Thai's don't want to know anything yet

he admits he was too lazy to learn the language.

Then complains he can not have an educated conversation with anyone? Whose fault is that?

Thai's or his?

He also states that you will never be accepted no matter how well you speak...Yet again he never attempted it because

in his own words .....

"Here I realize I would have to put in some serious effort, like go to school, to learn. Meh"

Yet how does he make those two claims together as he is unqualified to do so.

As I said his prerogative,anyone for that matter. Everyone should be comfortable

with their choice of where they choose to live.

[Morakot]

"Integration" is the goal?? Isn't just a means to whatever one's goal is in life?

No. Are we chameleons or men?

Or women?

[StreetCowboy]

"Integration" is the goal?? Isn't just a means to whatever one's goal is in life?

No. Are we chameleons or men?

Or women?

"it's no good speculating" "You're quite right, no point"

Ray French and Allan Rooney

[pastitche]

, but you are tilting at those windmills much harder today.

Tilting at windmills is an English idiom which means attacking imaginary enemies. The word “tilt”, in this context, comes from jousting.

The phrase is sometimes used to describe confrontations where adversaries are incorrectly perceived, or to courses of action that are based on misinterpreted or misapplied heroic, romantic, or idealistic justifications.

Thank you for your comments and I like your cat in a tinfoil hat BTW

I wish some people comments were imaginary here, unfortunately I have learned though the hard way here that if you ignore insults here (bigot/not a woman/racist/crazy/insane /etc) they just stay there.

And not only do they stay there but the ones who proffered them tend to think they can get away with it, so they come back again and again.

It is always the same 4 or 5 people and it's been 3 months now and yes I am starting to get fed up with it.

Tilting at windmills is not English - it is in fact from Cervantes's Don Quixote.so is really Spanish.... sorry

[pastitche]

If integating means eating blood,intestines,liver and chickens feet,you can count me out.

I am Scottish - black pudding and haggis I always enjoyed. Mind you chicken feet ....no

[barky]

How can we integrate fully as even the process of becoming a Thai Citizen takes forever and ever and ever. And not to forget is also limited to a couple of 100's foreigners a year or so.

And whatever happens we will always be and stay "Farang"

Totally agree. The system is designed so that it's basically impossible for you to integrate. And, even on the off chance (if you live long enough and can survive the all the hurdles) that you do get citizenship as stated you will always be seen and treated as a westerner who just got off the plane yesterday.

[Johnniey]

How can we integrate fully as even the process of becoming a Thai Citizen takes forever and ever and ever. And not to forget is also limited to a couple of 100's foreigners a year or so.

And whatever happens we will always be and stay "Farang"

Totally agree. The system is designed so that it's basically impossible for you to integrate. And, even on the off chance (if you live long enough and can survive the all the hurdles) that you do get citizenship as stated you will always be seen and treated as a westerner who just got off the plane yesterday.

Why so?

Look at the Chinese and the Indian communities. They have manged pretty well and were always called "jaek" and "kaek" by the pure Thais. These term, especially the Chinese one has become derogatory. So would the term farang if many of the poster here even made 1/2 an effort to learn the language and integrate. Also stop believing that it's hard to get Thai citizenship - it easy, especially if married to a Thai.

[Thaddeus]

If integating means eating blood,intestines,liver and chickens feet,you can count me out.

I am Scottish - black pudding and haggis I always enjoyed. Mind you chicken feet ....no

Dare I mention tripe.

[StreetCowboy]

If integating means eating blood,intestines,liver and chickens feet,you can count me out.

I am Scottish - black pudding and haggis I always enjoyed. Mind you chicken feet ....no

Dare I mention tripe.

Talking of intestines, are you not watching the Challenge Cup semi-finals? Leeds leading Pie-eaters trailing Leeds 36 -24 with 20 minutes to go

[samsiam]

If integating means eating blood,intestines,liver and chickens feet,you can count me out.

I am Scottish - black pudding and haggis I always enjoyed. Mind you chicken feet ....no

Dare I mention tripe.

Faggots anyone ??

[Thaddeus]

If integating means eating blood,intestines,liver and chickens feet,you can count me out.

I am Scottish - black pudding and haggis I always enjoyed. Mind you chicken feet ....no

Dare I mention tripe.

Talking of intestines, are you not watching the Challenge Cup semi-finals? Leeds leading Pie-eaters trailing Leeds 36 -24 with 20 minutes to go

expletive deleted.... back in a minute.

[StreetCowboy]

...

Dare I mention tripe.

Talking of intestines, are you not watching the Challenge Cup semi-finals? Leeds leading Pie-eaters trailing Leeds 36 -24 with 20 minutes to go

expletive deleted.... back in a minute.

Getting back on topic; to integrate more, do you reckon I should watch the English premier league in preference?

[Thaddeus]

...

Dare I mention tripe.

Talking of intestines, are you not watching the Challenge Cup semi-finals? Leeds leading Pie-eaters trailing Leeds 36 -24 with 20 minutes to go

expletive deleted.... back in a minute.

Getting back on topic; to integrate more, do you reckon I should watch the English premier league in preference?

I'm from Sentelens, I doubt that helps much with integration.

With regards to the EPL, I have found that just being English and watching games with locals is a huge benefit, they have not developed the sometimes intense dislike of the opposition, I hope they never do.

(well done Leeds btw)

[StreetCowboy]

I meant to mention your glassy stare...

I went to see Malaysia v Liverpool last year at Bukit Jalil. Its amazing how much more fun a game is, when everyone is supporting both sides. And you get nine goals. I felt sorry for anyone that went to see the Chelsea game - one Didier Drogba goal that never crossed the line...

SC

[Changnoi2]

No

Making the effort to integrate into a society that grants me little more than basic human rights seems like folly.

I like it here but have no desire to integrate into a country that is - with good reason - an utter laughing stock around the world.

People like you complain about whatever country you are working or living in. bore off!

[Jingthing]

How can we integrate fully as even the process of becoming a Thai Citizen takes forever and ever and ever. And not to forget is also limited to a couple of 100's foreigners a year or so.

And whatever happens we will always be and stay "Farang"

Totally agree. The system is designed so that it's basically impossible for you to integrate. And, even on the off chance (if you live long enough and can survive the all the hurdles) that you do get citizenship as stated you will always be seen and treated as a westerner who just got off the plane yesterday.

Why so?

Look at the Chinese and the Indian communities. They have manged pretty well and were always called "jaek" and "kaek" by the pure Thais. These term, especially the Chinese one has become derogatory. So would the term farang if many of the poster here even made 1/2 an effort to learn the language and integrate. Also stop believing that it's hard to get Thai citizenship - it easy, especially if married to a Thai.

Chinese: ASIANS

Indians: ASIANS

Next ...

[WinnieTheKhwai]

double post

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Look at the Chinese and the Indian communities. They have manged pretty well and were always called "jaek" and "kaek" by the pure Thais. These term, especially the Chinese one has become derogatory. So would the term farang if many of the poster here even made 1/2 an effort to learn the language and integrate. Also stop believing that it's hard to get Thai citizenship - it easy, especially if married to a Thai.

Chinese: ASIANS

Indians: ASIANS

Next ...

Overly simplistic and and implying an incorrect assumption.. as usual.

Enjoy the Pattaya bubble, where indeed it would be silly to integrate into whatever passes for society overthere. "Next.." indeed.

[Jingthing]

Of course there is more to the story but being Asians is part of it. Both Indians and Chinese people migrated here WELL BEFORE modern Thai immigration laws. So these people had families so they are visible and integrated into Thailand. However, I do think it is clear Chinese Thais are better integrated than Indian Thais. Why is that? How much is different culture and how much is different RACIAL appearance? Indian Thais are a MUCH SMALLER community.

Chinese immigration: Starting 400 years ago, EIGHT MILLION in Thailand

Indian immigration: Starting 150 years ago, 65,000 in Thailand

Will European Thais be SEMI-integrated into Thailand 150 years from now like Indian Thais? I bet ... NO.

This is deeply xenophobic country and we are just too different. Multiculturalism is NOT the ideal here. It's not the UK, France, Canada, or the USA and it doesn't have to be. It is up to Thailand and nothing to do with Europeans here.

The other thing with the CHINESE influence in Thailand is that TAI people ORIGINALLY came from China. But I am talking here about more recent (like 400 years) migration of Chinese people to Siam. So really how the Chinese have integrated is more evidence of how Europeans CAN'T integrate more than how we can!

[Ron19]

Loved tripe when in Australia but won't eat it here.My mother was a very good cook and had a way of doing it that always had us asking for more.I once attended a tripe club function in Fremantle where they nominated a number of members each month to create dishes using tripe as the main ingredient.There were tastings and discussion on the merits of each and from memory they awarded points and declared a winner.I took home 3 or 4 bags of different ones.Delicious!!!

[flying]

This is deeply xenophobic country and we are just too different. Multiculturalism is NOT the ideal here.

You know it is nice to think it is all roses elsewhere but the truth is quite different.

Even in the USA which is often termed the melting pot.

There are many "Falang" like terms for all the different races....Most of them not complimentary

There are more areas than not that still do not treat "them" equally no matter how many generations ago they

"integrated" & became American Citizens

[JurgenG]

Of course there is more to the story but being Asians is part of it. Both Indians and Chinese people migrated here WELL BEFORE modern Thai immigration laws. So these people had families so they are visible and integrated into Thailand. However, I do think it is clear Chinese Thais are better integrated than Indian Thais. Why is that? How much is different culture and how much is different RACIAL appearance? Indian Thais are a MUCH SMALLER community.

Chinese immigration: Starting 400 years ago, EIGHT MILLION in Thailand

Indian immigration: Starting 150 years ago, 65,000 in Thailand

Will European Thais be SEMI-integrated into Thailand 150 years from now like Indian Thais? I bet ... NO.

This is deeply xenophobic country and we are just too different. Multiculturalism is NOT the ideal here. It's not the UK, France, Canada, or the USA and it doesn't have to be. It is up to Thailand and nothing to do with Europeans here.

The other thing with the CHINESE influence in Thailand is that TAI people ORIGINALLY came from China. But I am talking here about more recent (like 400 years) migration of Chinese people to Siam. So really how the Chinese have integrated is more evidence of how Europeans CAN'T integrate more than how we can!

Chinese have similar problems when they arrive., They are considered uneducated, rude, loud and too money minded. But they make an effort to integrate and without one or two generation they are more Thai than Chinese.

It's the same for second generation European, very often luk kreung, who make the effort to integrate the Thai society, having Thai as first language and respecting the rules of Thai society. In America, you have to respect the american flag and american basic values (pledge of allegiance). Here it's the same

But you're the one who don't want integrate the Thai society and you call them xenophobics ?

[Jingthing]

Of course there is more to the story but being Asians is part of it. Both Indians and Chinese people migrated here WELL BEFORE modern Thai immigration laws. So these people had families so they are visible and integrated into Thailand. However, I do think it is clear Chinese Thais are better integrated than Indian Thais. Why is that? How much is different culture and how much is different RACIAL appearance? Indian Thais are a MUCH SMALLER community.

Chinese immigration: Starting 400 years ago, EIGHT MILLION in Thailand

Indian immigration: Starting 150 years ago, 65,000 in Thailand

Will European Thais be SEMI-integrated into Thailand 150 years from now like Indian Thais? I bet ... NO.

This is deeply xenophobic country and we are just too different. Multiculturalism is NOT the ideal here. It's not the UK, France, Canada, or the USA and it doesn't have to be. It is up to Thailand and nothing to do with Europeans here.

The other thing with the CHINESE influence in Thailand is that TAI people ORIGINALLY came from China. But I am talking here about more recent (like 400 years) migration of Chinese people to Siam. So really how the Chinese have integrated is more evidence of how Europeans CAN'T integrate more than how we can!

Chinese have similar problems when they arrive., They are considered uneducated, rude, loud and too money minded. But they make an effort to integrate and without one or two generation they are more Thai than Chinese.

It's the same for second generation European, very often luk kreung, who make the effort to integrate the Thai society, having Thai as first language and respecting the rules of Thai society. In America, you have to respect the american flag and american basic values (pledge of allegiance). Here it's the same

But you're the one who don't want integrate the Thai society and you call them xenophobics ?

Like I said the early Chinese here who literally SEEDED the EIGHT MILLION arrived at a time with a very different IMMIGRATION law system. Only a tiny number of Europeans become Thai citizens, that is clearly BY DESIGN. Thai society does NOT want EIGHT MILLION white Thai citizens, not now, not ever. Deal with it.

There is a huge body of literature about the xenophobic nature of Thai society. Cheap shot trying to make it personal, that won't wash.

[maxme]

How can we integrate fully as even the process of becoming a Thai Citizen takes forever and ever and ever. And not to forget is also limited to a couple of 100's foreigners a year or so.

And whatever happens we will always be and stay "Farang"

Totally agree. The system is designed so that it's basically impossible for you to integrate. And, even on the off chance (if you live long enough and can survive the all the hurdles) that you do get citizenship as stated you will always be seen and treated as a westerner who just got off the plane yesterday.

Why so?

Look at the Chinese and the Indian communities. They have manged pretty well and were always called "jaek" and "kaek" by the pure Thais. These term, especially the Chinese one has become derogatory. So would the term farang if many of the poster here even made 1/2 an effort to learn the language and integrate. Also stop believing that it's hard to get Thai citizenship - it easy, especially if married to a Thai.

What a load of baloney.

[saengsureeya]

A long as my visa is called "non-immigrant" and as long as I have to ask on a yearly base to stay for another year............I will not integrate.

I know.......a cheap excuse from someone who is either too lazy or too stupid to integrate, but it's an excuse I can live with.