Expats In Thailand: Is Your Goal Here To "Integrate" Into Thai Society?

[aneliane]

For those who say No, I wonder why they came to live in LOS in the first place?

Better to join the Fish and Chips/English Pub brigade in Spain?

I came here to work...and once there is no longer work here for me, it's time to move on, but will certainly not moving to Spain...

I hear Greece is cheap now

[aneliane]

i worked in a thai owned company for 12 years with a mixed staff, earned thai baht, paid thai taxes, impregnated a thai woman, fathered a thai citizen, employ a thai domestic staff (of one), feed a thai cat, enjoy thai food, support locai thai businesses, speak the thai language and clean my ass with a bum gun.

what more do you want from me?

You to tell us what's a bum gun ?

[tinfoilhat]

i worked in a thai owned company for 12 years with a mixed staff, earned thai baht, paid thai taxes, impregnated a thai woman, fathered a thai citizen, employ a thai domestic staff (of one), feed a thai cat, enjoy thai food, support locai thai businesses, speak the thai language and clean my ass with a bum gun.

what more do you want from me?

You to tell us what's a bum gun ?

the squirter beside the toilet. and i dont recommend you google squirter -- though maybe i do.

[samsiam]

How can it be our "goal" since it is not possible ?

Even if we had Thai nationality we would always remains FARANGS, whatever we do.

Confucius say : man who run behind car get thaired.

[richardjm65]

Well, what started off as a fairly light hearted thread has predictably degenerated into a fair amount of mud-slinging, which is a shame.

If, by integration, you aim to become immersed in a culture that encompasses superstition, corruption, poor education, alcohol problems, an obsession with noise, and all the associated problems of a third world country, then all power to you. Be happy with that.

If, on the other hand, you feel that you can tolerate those traits, and still find diamonds in the dross, then I would suggest that you have adapted quite well. It's not necessary to abandon the standards which existed where you were raised - the art surely comes in knowing when to throttle back on your educational superiority - when not to try to impose your far greater educational qualifications and shove it up the noses of our host nation. They have much to show us too.

A low profile and quietly doing what you know (and hope), to be effective might just encourage those who watch you to try a similar approach.

I'm mostly referring to up-country situations - it's been some years since I was a city lad, but whether you're up-country or a city dweller, you will be able to pick out the foreigners who have adapted well. And as I said before, total integration is another matter and, I'd suggest, fairly rare.

[aneliane]

i worked in a thai owned company for 12 years with a mixed staff, earned thai baht, paid thai taxes, impregnated a thai woman, fathered a thai citizen, employ a thai domestic staff (of one), feed a thai cat, enjoy thai food, support locai thai businesses, speak the thai language and clean my ass with a bum gun.

what more do you want from me?

You to tell us what's a bum gun ?

the squirter beside the toilet. and i dont recommend you google squirter -- though maybe i do.

oh I see ...thanks I was wondering what was that thing called...Is there another name for it ?

[inthepink]

Toilet hose, I believe

[elliss]

YES,,,

i have integrated with quite a few thais ,

very enjoyable ,, but can be a tad exspensive.

[inthepink]

I find that I have begun to disintegrate as I get older.

[Thaddeus]

I am focused on the facts that the masses of Thai people think massive corruption is acceptable and running away from the scene of an injury accident you caused is normal, expected behavior. No wish to go there. Ever.

I think we all know that poll's can be manipulated, in what ever way the asker wants to - I don't have a single friend that thinks that is acceptable...under any circumstances.

That's what they say.

Ohh...yes i forgot - my friends is Thai - witch mean that they lie to me, that is what you imply...right? What a sad sad sad person you are.

Nope.

No one knows how they would react in a hypothetical situation until they are in that situation for real, Thai, farang or Martian, makes no difference.

At no point did I accuse your friends of lying, I would never do that cos they is your friends init.

And just for reference, I'm a reasonably happy person.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

How can it be our "goal" since it is not possible ?

Actually they're the best kind. Happiness is in the striving not the achieving, the journey not the destination.

Sounds like a fortune cookie I know but I honestly believe it's true.

And sometimes when you set the bar very high you surprise yourself, get a lot close than you thought possible.

Edited June 15, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[inthepink]

How can it be our "goal" since it is not possible ?

Even if we had Thai nationality we would always remains FARANGS, whatever we do.

Do you look Thai? If not, why on earth would you expect Thai people to consider you a Thai? Your hair colour, complexion and eyes are not going to change overnight. This is not a multiracial society such as the USA and even in the UK, where I am from, I notice that Indian people look Indian to me, regardless of the passport they hold. Does that mean I don't accept them? What is with this needy desire to be "accepted" by Thai people that some Westerners have anyway?

According to one dictionary definition I found, integration in this context means to give equal opportunity and consideration to an ethnic minority; something that a Thai passport would achieve to a large extent. It doesn't mean to brainwash the population into believing that you have changed race just because you hold a Thai passport.

Edited June 15, 2012 by inthepink

[poanoi]

A yes/no answer is impossible, for me at least.

When I first moved here then yes, I looked forward to integrating.

Now, a few years later, I accept that this will not happen and am no longer interested in integrating - I just do my best to ensure that I am not disliked!

Exactly the same here, except for the part of trying to be liked

[mca]

but those I have met in that situation have been quite sad characters who have used Thailand (and their new found Thai friends) as an escape from reality or their failed backgrounds.

I think you're getting "Thailand" and "Beer Chang" mixed up mate.

[tartempion]

No

[JurgenG]

It all comes down to the definition of integration. For me it's feeling good in the country where you live and local people around you feeling comfortable with you.

So my answer is a definitive "YES".

[Soutpeel]

What is with this needy desire to be "accepted" by Thai people that some Westerners have anyway?

After 10 years here I still cant figure that one out either. I happen to know a few Western farangs who actually have Thai passports and one would expect them to be Thai'er than Thai, but this not the case, and in fact in some instances they are highly critical of all all things Thai, in my interations with them do I get the impression they have attempted to intergrate into Thai society ?....h*ll no....if you didnt know they had the passports, on meeting them one would assume they are typical expats living in Thailand.

[JurgenG]

I have no desire to integrate (it is impossible anyway) and I refuse to wai at 7/11 check out girls, waitresses/bar girls and children.

Who do that anyway ?

Regarding wai to children, parents try to teach their kids the good manners by asking them to "wai" you. Returning the "wai" with a big smile as a mark of appreciation is helping the parents in their effort. People complain kids have no education, when both parents and kids make an effort, the least you can do is to help.

Edited June 16, 2012 by JurgenG

[Soutpeel]

I have no desire to integrate (it is impossible anyway) and I refuse to wai at 7/11 check out girls, waitresses/bar girls and children.

Who do that anyway ?

Regarding wai to children, parents try to teach their kids the good manners by asking them to "wai" you. Returning the "wai" with a big smile as a mark of appreciation is helping the parents in their effort. People complain kids have no education, when both parents and kids make an effort, the least you can do is to help.

please please please....lets not turn this into another "proper protocol to used when wai'ing" thread......

[JurgenG]

Thais don't even care whether you integrate or not.

The best thing you can do from both your own and the Thais' perspectives is to simply get Thai culture (or at least try to) so that you might spare both your head and the wall.

That's a good point people usually don't get. Looking for better integration into the Thai society is a service you do to yourself.

But I'm afraid a number of people like to miserable, it gives them something to talk about.

[Rsquared]

Well I've just spent half an hour reading all the posts (I'm a slow reader) and talk about "splitting hairs"!

While most of the posts were done yesterday...I spent all day and half the night at the local temple for the (I don't know the proper term) funeral preparations of my sister-in-law.

For some not familiar...she died on wednesday and will be cremated on sunday, but during that time someone (family) must remain at the temple 24/7 and the monks do a "service?" each night and food is served to everyone in attendance.

Sorry for the digression......but all the time I was there (and I will be going again later today) I found the locals trying to integrate me into their society rather than me doing the integration.

Ok I am the only farang in the village and of course stand out, but they were all trying to make me feel as one of them rather than treating me like an exhibit at the zoo.

So without splitting hairs....my vote would be a yes.

[Soutpeel]

I found the locals trying to integrate me into their society rather than me doing the integration.

Ok I am the only farang in the village and of course stand out, but they were all trying to make me feel as one of them rather than treating me like an exhibit at the zoo.

So guess you will be paying the bill then ?....

[Rsquared]

I found the locals trying to integrate me into their society rather than me doing the integration.

Ok I am the only farang in the village and of course stand out, but they were all trying to make me feel as one of them rather than treating me like an exhibit at the zoo.

So guess you will be paying the bill then ?....

Thankfully no, the SiL"s family are quite well off (for village farmers) so I will only be paying a small proportion. Thankfully my wife is a scrooge when it comes to money, more so than me.

[Ulysses G.]

I have no desire to integrate (it is impossible anyway) and I refuse to wai at 7/11 check out girls, waitresses/bar girls and children.

Regarding wai to children, parents try to teach their kids the good manners by asking them to "wai" you. Returning the "wai" with a big smile as a mark of appreciation is helping the parents in their effort.

I pretty much wai any Thai that wais me - forget all the "higher status" nonsense - but it is my theory that returning the wai of a small child just confuses them as they do not expect it from an adult.

[Geekfreaklover]

Define integration ?

Going native and moving to the wilds of Isaan to shack up with 20 year old, flat nosed, splay toed rich farmers daughter ?.....building a farang mansion, moving the family in, financing them ?

If this is considered intergration....no bloody way

The above is exploitation not intergration. Different kettle of fish.

[Soutpeel]

Define integration ?

Going native and moving to the wilds of Isaan to shack up with 20 year old, flat nosed, splay toed rich farmers daughter ?.....building a farang mansion, moving the family in, financing them ?

If this is considered intergration....no bloody way

The above is exploitation not intergration. Different kettle of fish.

Valid point...but who is exploiting who that is the question...

[Geekfreaklover]

I have no desire to integrate (it is impossible anyway) and I refuse to wai at 7/11 check out girls, waitresses/bar girls and children.

Regarding wai to children, parents try to teach their kids the good manners by asking them to "wai" you. Returning the "wai" with a big smile as a mark of appreciation is helping the parents in their effort.

I pretty much wai any Thai that wais me - forget all the "higher status" nonsense - but it is my theory that returning the wai of a small child just confuses them as they do not expect it from an adult.

I thought the same thing for a few years until I volunteered at an English language camp about ten years ago. I was presented an award by a student who waied me. I didn't return the wai at first and she told me under her breath to wai back. I spoke about this with one of the Thai teachers who said it is appropiate to return the wai of a student, younger person, hands held lower than their's,Thai children do expect the wai to be returned by an adult and to not do so is a sign that the adult has not intergrated into Thai society. It is basically rude to not return a wai by anyone in Thai society. Just don't wai first.

[Geekfreaklover]

Define integration ?

Going native and moving to the wilds of Isaan to shack up with 20 year old, flat nosed, splay toed rich farmers daughter ?.....building a farang mansion, moving the family in, financing them ?

If this is considered intergration....no bloody way

The above is exploitation not intergration. Different kettle of fish.

Valid point...but who is exploiting who that is the question...

They are both exploiting each other. One for money. The other for sex. The devil's bargain.

[Soutpeel]

It is basically rude to not return a wai by anyone in Thai society. Just don't wai first.

Certainly not want to turn this into another Wai'ing thread which has been done to death on here

When I arrived in Thailand to start work, we underwent "cultural sensitivity" training by Thai cultural experts (Thai's)....and on this exact subject, as long as the wai is acknowleged...ie could be a nod of the head....not wai'ing is not considered rude, this is coming from them not me....the key is acknowlegement, as to whether something is considered rude...

The perception by westerners that not wai'ing someone is same as refusing someones hand extended in a hand shake i.e. very rude, this is not actually the case when it comes to wai'ing

[canuckamuck]

I am not concerned if I mess up a wai or forget to wai either. It is quite clear to me no one else cares either, except expats. Since I have moved past this issue, does that make me integrated.