Coups Don't Solve Problems: Thailand

[volk666]

"and once that was accomplished the military accepted election results that didn't go their way, twice now."

well, sort of. They have accepted the results the second time, ... so far.

They accepted results the first time, too. You can only accuse them of brokering the new coalition deal but they didn't have guns to anybody's heads and their alleged involvement hardly qualifies as "overturning election results".

They even let Thaksin back in the country, despots..

[phiphidon]

...If the coup had not happened there would have been elections in Ocober or within a month or so while the new Election Commission got up to speed. Then the dems would have a chance to get themselves voted in legitimately with a mandate by getting ....

The coup wasn't about giving Democrats a chance to run in elections. It was about removing Thaksin.

Don't forget that by September 2006 Thaksin had already committed most of his crimes and could stay in power only because he was out of reach of the justice system. April 2006 fraud was all out there for everyone to see, for example, and it was clear that Thaksin had no respect for democratic rules whatsoever and shouldn't be allowed to rule.

Had he formally announced that he would not take the PM post, as he promised earlier that year on national TV, the coup makers would have let the situation to develop on its own, I think.

The ridiculous suicide bomb plot and Thaksin's hesitation to step aside convinced them that the man couldn't be trusted and his fate was sealed.

I'll repeat it again - it wasn't about putting Democrats in power, it was about removing Thaksin, and once that was accomplished the military accepted election results that didn't go their way, twice now.

The bit about the dems winning an election was tongue in cheek, Volk.

"Had he formally announced that he would not take the PM post, as he promised earlier that year on national TV, the coup makers would have let the situation to develop on its own, I think".

Yes I agree, his dithering about didn't help but I'm not so sure the army would have left it at that. The military didn't have to do anything, the courts were the way forward now, that had been achieved with the rewrite of the constitution. We're seeing some of the results of that now via the constitution courts recent decisions.

[tlansford]

...If the coup had not happened there would have been elections in Ocober or within a month or so while the new Election Commission got up to speed. Then the dems would have a chance to get themselves voted in legitimately with a mandate by getting ....

The coup wasn't about giving Democrats a chance to run in elections. It was about removing Thaksin.

Don't forget that by September 2006 Thaksin had already committed most of his crimes and could stay in power only because he was out of reach of the justice system. April 2006 fraud was all out there for everyone to see, for example, and it was clear that Thaksin had no respect for democratic rules whatsoever and shouldn't be allowed to rule.

Had he formally announced that he would not take the PM post, as he promised earlier that year on national TV, the coup makers would have let the situation to develop on its own, I think.

The ridiculous suicide bomb plot and Thaksin's hesitation to step aside convinced them that the man couldn't be trusted and his fate was sealed.

I'll repeat it again - it wasn't about putting Democrats in power, it was about removing Thaksin, and once that was accomplished the military accepted election results that didn't go their way, twice now.

The bit about the dems winning an election was tongue in cheek, Volk.

"Had he formally announced that he would not take the PM post, as he promised earlier that year on national TV, the coup makers would have let the situation to develop on its own, I think".

Yes I agree, his dithering about didn't help but I'm not so sure the army would have left it at that. The military didn't have to do anything, the courts were the way forward now, that had been achieved with the rewrite of the constitution. We're seeing some of the results of that now via the constitution courts recent decisions.

The judicial coup has a short, very short, direct connection to the junta. Junta installed judges in a junta-written constitution. Junta installed court dissolves political parties the junta doesn't like (twice), but leaves the others in peace.

Even a blind man knows when the sun is shining.

[KireB]

You really ought to concentrate on comprehension / history. If the coup had not happened there would have been elections in Ocober or within a month or so while the new Election Commission got up to speed. Then the dems would have a chance to get themselves voted in legitimately with a mandate by getting more of the peoples votes than the opposition, you know, the way democratic elections are normally run.

Instead the coup happened, the junta kept in power for a year and then another election was held in December 2007. In January 2008 PPP formed a coalition government as they won again. The rest you know, or maybe not.................

Without the coup we would have seen a lot of casualties among yellow protesters, a completely destroyed system of check and balances and so on!

When an elected government destroys the democratic foundations of society, and that was exactly what the TRT was doing, a system reset is necessary.

[kerryk]

You really ought to concentrate on comprehension / history. If the coup had not happened there would have been elections in Ocober or within a month or so while the new Election Commission got up to speed. Then the dems would have a chance to get themselves voted in legitimately with a mandate by getting more of the peoples votes than the opposition, you know, the way democratic elections are normally run.

Instead the coup happened, the junta kept in power for a year and then another election was held in December 2007. In January 2008 PPP formed a coalition government as they won again. The rest you know, or maybe not.................

Without the coup we would have seen a lot of casualties among yellow protesters, a completely destroyed system of check and balances and so on!

When an elected government destroys the democratic foundations of society, and that was exactly what the TRT was doing, a system reset is necessary.

What democratic foundations? Or what is a democratic foundation. Is a coup a democratic foundation?

So, I think you are saying the coup was wrong but because you think yellow shirt protesters would have been harmed then the coup is OK. Kind of like the end justifies the means?

Oh BTW who decides when a system reset is necessary? Do they wear a particular color shirt or something that we all could see?

Edited June 23, 2012 by kerryk

[KireB]

Oh BTW who decides when a system reset is necessary? Do they wear a particular color shirt or something that we all could see?

Good point, but when you take an unbiased look at what happened in 2005 and 2006, especially the fact that the 'caretaker' PM did not get his Royal endorsement and was about to commit another round of crimes against humanity in order to get an o so desired State of Emergency, then it becomes very hard to not see the necessity of a system reset!

[kerryk]

Oh BTW who decides when a system reset is necessary? Do they wear a particular color shirt or something that we all could see?

Good point, but when you take an unbiased look at what happened in 2005 and 2006, especially the fact that the 'caretaker' PM did not get his Royal endorsement and was about to commit another round of crimes against humanity in order to get an o so desired State of Emergency, then it becomes very hard to not see the necessity of a system reset!

"We have successfully overthrown three prime ministers, which proves our track record is excellent," says Chamlong, co-leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), whose yellow-clad members shut down Bangkok's international airport in 2008.

Seems like some one knows how to do a reset! Eh?

[KireB]

Oh BTW who decides when a system reset is necessary? Do they wear a particular color shirt or something that we all could see?

Good point, but when you take an unbiased look at what happened in 2005 and 2006, especially the fact that the 'caretaker' PM did not get his Royal endorsement and was about to commit another round of crimes against humanity in order to get an o so desired State of Emergency, then it becomes very hard to not see the necessity of a system reset!

"We have successfully overthrown three prime ministers, which proves our track record is excellent," says Chamlong, co-leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), whose yellow-clad members shut down Bangkok's international airport in 2008.

Seems like some one knows how to do a reset! Eh?

What he means is 1 PM and 2 proxy PM's and whether his PAD was responsible for overthrowing these 3 is debatable. His organisation surely set their deserved downfalls in motion. I hope they can somehow convince the Thais to get red of proxy number 3 as well!

[volk666]

The judicial coup has a short, very short, direct connection to the junta. Junta installed judges in a junta-written constitution. Junta installed court dissolves political parties the junta doesn't like (twice), but leaves the others in peace.

Even a blind man knows when the sun is shining.

Dissolution of TRT was recommended by the very first investigative committee in May 2006, months before the coup, according to 1997 constitution, and when the previous EC was still firmly in charge, I think it was even before the elections results were annulled.

Dissolution of PPP was inevitable once Yongyudh, their party senior exec, was convicted of electoral fraud, the court really didn't have a choice and stated so in the judgment. Ditto for Banharn.

[backtonormal]

Any coup that got rid of Thaksin was NOT pointless. The installation of anti-corruption measures has at least slowed the rapacious plundering of the country, and as more charges mount, will prevent the return of the main plunderer - unless he can get a white-wash.

This is where you are wrong belong belief. If the country had continued to run under Thaksin tyranny, then eventually the electorate would have turned against him, no matter how much money he could or would have spent on elections. Simple answer is that if that course had been allowed to run then the electorate would have gotten what it wanted and we would be in a much more stable politicial environment now. Your hatred of everything Thaksin shields your common sense.

I seem to remember that the final straw was his attempted interference in the military, specifically in annual promotions to key positions. If he had taken control of the armed forces he would have had total control and you know what that means.. But Prem cooked his goose for him... alledgedly.

Curiously the country did rather well post coup economically in very trying times during the credit crunch, largely thanks to restrained (comparatively) leadership and ministers appointed largely on merit (eg Korn). Then you know who stuck his oar in and the good ship Thailand sprung a leak.

Suggesting that Thaksin wanted control of the military is more or less saying that somebody else had control. So what the army claims to protect maybe not be true if in fact all they are is mercanairies available to the highest bidder.

Edited June 24, 2012 by backtonormal

[kerryk]

"Nearly six years have passed since the coup of September 19, 2006, yet those who were so loud in denouncing it have done little to free Thailand from the fear of yet another putsch, because no reforms have been introduced within the Army.

Those who were involved in the coup should not be granted amnesty," Sirote said, adding that the yellow-shirt People's Alliance for Democracy and the multicoloured shirts would stop looking at coups as a "solution" for everything."

Strange stuff above eh? Make ya want to call a mod and say it must be off topic?

Somehow somewhere you all should find a way to have the first two paragraphs of this post deleted.

However the first two paragraphs of this post are the original post and the topic of this thread.

[tlansford]

The judicial coup has a short, very short, direct connection to the junta. Junta installed judges in a junta-written constitution. Junta installed court dissolves political parties the junta doesn't like (twice), but leaves the others in peace.

Even a blind man knows when the sun is shining.

Dissolution of TRT was recommended by the very first investigative committee in May 2006, months before the coup, according to 1997 constitution, and when the previous EC was still firmly in charge, I think it was even before the elections results were annulled.

Dissolution of PPP was inevitable once Yongyudh, their party senior exec, was convicted of electoral fraud, the court really didn't have a choice and stated so in the judgment. Ditto for Banharn.

and if my memory serves me right, the same fate was also recommended for the Democrats....

But then, ...