I Want To Give Up My Us Citizenship

[djvolak]

I bought a book by a guy Robert Bauman called the Passport Book. I has all countries listed and explains what all you have to do to get each and the plusses and minuses for each. Pretty good book with a lot of info. I have it on the boat I work on in the Gulf of Mexico right now but can bring it back with me next trip and let you borrow it if you want to look through it. Seemed like Panama was the easiest right now but there are many that let you do it through heritage, I think it only goes back to grandparent on most and they had to be citizens of that particular country. Ireland the Chezc Rep to name a few. There are countries who would like people with money to come there. Study up before making decisions you may later in life regret. I was looking to do the same thing but I am still studying. The onluy thing I have left in America in my name is a house with bit of a note on it and 2 bank accounts that I try not to leave too much in. There are many ways to do things in this life. Look into all before you commit. You can P.M. me if you want to look at the book and I will bring it back when I come back from work in Aug or Sept. Good luck with all your endeavours always. I am married here and way more happy here than in the US so I do hear what you are saying. I am able to work all over the world with my job so one of these days something long term will come up in Asia and I will just not go back to the US at all.

[lovetotravel]

Ain't gonna happen. Stop dreaming.

It's gonna happen. It's just a matter of time. I think I can have it completed within 5-10 years if I hurry.

The way I see it, my freedom is threatened by an increasingly fascist and controlling government. I'm trying to get out now before it is too late. And I'm certainly not the only American trying to do it.

Are you really that naive?? While America has it's faults ... don't we all .... it is very, very far from being "fascist." Try living in North Korea and then you'll see what fascism is all about. If the American government was truly fascist you'd be dead soon from simply posting what you have here.

I had a friend that during the Vietnam War renounced his US citizenship in protest. However, a few years later .... with some maturing .... he greatly regretted his renunciation, and that he could no longer enter the US and see his family and friends. He regretted this for the rest of his life.

So, good luck with that renunciation thing .... you're gonna need it.

I think that's a great point. Americans, heck, Westerners in general, take for granted the liberties we have. I've visited many countries where the citizens are literally dying to get out. We're very luck to be from a Western nation and not from Cuba, N. Korea, Liberia, etc.

Try living in Cuba for 6 months and I'll be you'll reconsider your decision.

And if you don't like the US government, what they heck are you doing here?

[schnazzy]

Look, wouldn't all American expats like to get out of paying taxes. If you are making the money you seem to be implying and by that, I mean 100's of thousands of dollars US per year*, then I think you should invest some of that into talking to actual legal counsel. You can prep for it now and put a plan together for the next few years. Yes you will need a password and citizenship from another country because you can't exit under the statute without proof of citizenship. So work on that first. That should take you a few years or at least 100k US.

*when I estimated that amount it was based on your 25-40% tax statement. I'll assume that was an educated statement and therefore you meant tax on AGI but not being able to take the 95k tax exclusion. To be in the middle of that tax range you mentioned (32.5%) you would have to make more than a half million dollars (not including any AMT issues) assuming nothing but the basic standard deduction (no kids, interest, all income being earned not capital gains, not even giving money to charity). The tax rate is GRADUATED. And if you lived as an expat, you could take the exlcusion for the first 95k. If you are making that much money, maybe invest a bit and those returns would be at the 15% rate (assuming you invested for the long term). That would again, reduce your tax burden.

The smarter move would be to see a tax consultant (CPA or tax lawyer) and an investment manager. The rich do this and by percentage pay a lower rate (although it is still millions in taxes).

BTW, you know you have to pay taxes in Thailand even if you are not a citizen right? And you know for the money you are probably talking about, you would pay more than in the US?

[Pseudolus]

Money or time spent. In Hong Kong, 7 years gets you PR status and a passport.

NOT as easy as you make it sounds, methinks. PR, perhaps -- but not passport. And if you object to US policies for political reasons, you're not likely to feel warm and fuzzy about the PRC.

PR - you can apply for a passport.

Source - http://www.gov.hk/en/residents/immigration/traveldoc/hksarpassport/index.htm

You are eligible to apply for a HKSAR Passport if you are:

• a Chinese citizen;
  
• a permanent resident of the HKSAR; and
  
• a holder of a valid Hong Kong permanent identity card.
  

Hong Kong is not PRC.

Edited June 25, 2012 by Pseudolus

[NewlyMintedThai]

Money or time spent. In Hong Kong, 7 years gets you PR status and a passport.

NOT as easy as you make it sounds, methinks. PR, perhaps -- but not passport. And if you object to US policies for political reasons, you're not likely to feel warm and fuzzy about the PRC.

PR - you can apply for a passport.

Source - http://www.gov.hk/en/residents/immigration/traveldoc/hksarpassport/index.htm

You are eligible to apply for a HKSAR Passport if you are:

• a Chinese citizen;
  
• a permanent resident of the HKSAR; and
  
• a holder of a valid Hong Kong permanent identity card.
  

Hong Kong is not PRC.

What about the first condition, that you must be a Chinese citizen? It is "and", not "or".

And if you don't think the PRC auhorities are the ultimate lords and masters, you are gravely mistaken.

[Pseudolus]

What about the first condition, that you must be a Chinese citizen? It is "and", not "or".

And if you don't think the PRC auhorities are the ultimate lords and masters, you are gravely mistaken.

Either mainlander OR PR as well as being HKID holder.

No decision on that until 2047 will anything change and there is high chance the OP, me and you will be dead and buried by then. By then, Hong Kongers tend to believe that China will have opened up enough to allow them to continue as is or be fully independent (certainly like to believe). HK'ers hate mainlanders. With a passion. There would be uproar, literally riots in the streets if China enforced this upon them. The China philosophy is that that have all the time in the world and if HK are not ready to come into the fold at that point, they will not push the issue. Look at their stance on Taiwan which is basically that they will be part of China tomorrow or in 1000 years. Either way, they will be part of China.

If you want to know why HK'ers detest the Mainlanders so much, you just need to see how the children of the cultural revolution act when they cross into Hong Kong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWjBw2-erbY

Personally from my experience living there, China will have changed so much by then and with a high chance of democracy coming to town as well that Hong Kong will become a country in it's own right. Either way, regardless of what the current constitution says, Hong Kongers will not freely allow themselves to be bundled together with China.

(By the way, if you ever want to wind up an HK'er, call them a mainlander - then duck).

Edited June 25, 2012 by Pseudolus

[NewlyMintedThai]

I wouldn't even want the PRC state seal on my passport (as it is on HK SAR passports), the government is so loathesome.

[ableguy]

I will be interested to see the replies on this one Chops. Is it for tax reasons?

Do you have Thai citizenship? If not, who would you be a citizen of then?

I think you are very brave, personally I couldnt give up my citizenship for anyone but then I dont have to lodge tax returns to a country that I dont frequent!

No. I just don't want to be a US citizen any longer.

I only wish to have one item: a passport that I can use to travel most of the globe without much hassle.

You are dreaming.

[ableguy]

Citizenship for men married to Thai's has become easier in the last couple of years, and does not now require you become a permanent resident first.

I have heard from a friend that Uganda is an easy country to get citizenship in. Don't think it would fit the requirement of "... I can use to travel most of the globe without much hassle.", though.

Anyone who would give up US citizenship to become Ugandan needs serious medical attention.

[Pseudolus]

Is this just a Tax thing? Or a personal hatred of your former country?

If you are never going back, become a resident of where ever you have moved to and want to make your home.

[Gonsalviz]

I think you are asking two separate and distinct questions:

1.) How do I renounce my U.S. citizenship?

2.) What citizenship should I attempt to gain?

I think there is a process for renouncing your U.S citizenship; it used to be free but now you have to pay a fee.

http://en.wikipedia...._of_citizenship

United States

Overview

The United States requires that an individual go in person to a U.S. embassy or consulate outside the U.S. and sign before a consular officer an oath or affirmation that he intends to renounce his citizenship, although exceptions are legally permitted in times of war and under special circumstances.[17][18] During the expatriation procedure, the individual must complete several documents and demonstrate in an interview with a consular officer that the renunciation is voluntary and intentional. Depending on the embassy or consulate, the individual is often required to appear in person two times and conduct two separate interviews with consular officers over the course of several months.[19]

There were between 222-235 renunciants in 2008, between 731-743 in 2009, and about 1485 in 2010;[20][21] In 2011, there were 1781 renunciants.[22]

Formal confirmation of the loss of U.S. citizenship is provided by the Certificate of Loss of Nationality and is received by the renunciant a number of months later. Renunciation of U.S. citizenship was free until July, 2010, at which time a fee of $450 was established. Although many countries require citizenship of another nation before allowing renunciation, the United States does not and an individual may legally renounce U.S. citizenship and become stateless. Nonetheless, the United States Department of State warns renunciants that, unless they already possess a foreign nationality or are assured of acquiring another nationality shortly after completing their renunciation, they would become stateless and without the protection of any government.[23]

In one case, Vincent Cate, an encryption expert living in Anguilla, chose to renounce his US citizenship to avoid the possibility of violating US laws that may prohibit US citizens from "exporting" encryption software.[24]

[edit]Taxation

The United States is the only major country which taxes based on citizenship rather than residency. A 1995 study by the U.S. Congress found that at the time only the U.S., the Philippines, and Eritrea tax based on citizenship rather than residency. The Philippines switched to a residency-based system in 1997, thereby not taxing its citizens on worldwide income.[25]

In 1996, the U.S. changed its immigration law to include a provision to "name and shame" renunciants.[26] The Department of the Treasury became obligated to publish quarterly in the Federal Register the names of those citizens who renounce their citizenship. Only the names are published, but by counting the number of names in each list, media organizations are able to infer the number of renunciants each quarter. The 1996 law included a provision to bar entry to any individual "who officially renounces United States citizenship and who is determined by the Attorney General to have renounced United States citizenship for the purpose of avoiding taxation by the United States."[26] There is no known case of this provision, known as the Reed Amendment, having ever been enforced.

In 2008, Congress enacted the Heroes Earnings Assistance and Relief Act that imposes a penalty—an "exit tax" or expatriation tax—on certain people who give up their U.S. citizenship or long-term permanent residence.[27] Effective June 2008, U.S. citizens who renounce their citizenship are subject under certain circumstances to an expatriation tax, which is meant to extract from the expatriate taxes that would have been paid had he remained a citizen: all property of a covered expatriate is deemed sold for its fair market value on the day before the expatriation date, which usually results in a capital gain, which is taxable income.[28] Eduardo Saverin, a Brazilian-born co-founder of Facebook, renounced his U.S. citizenship just before the company's expected initial public offering; the timing prompted media speculation that the act was motivated by potential U.S. tax obligations.[22]

Not sure about which citizenship to gain? I guess you could marry someone from a country that grants citizenship to spouses?

You are wrong to assert that the USA is the only major country to tax (individuals) on citizenship rather than residency. Any UK derived income is UK taxable regardless of residency. Ask any UK 'non resident for tax purposes' about this.

The US wants taxes on monies made outside the country althought there is a large deduction allowed. In the $90,000 range.

[Gonsalviz]

Costa Rica is another suggestion. The process is not all that painful.

Google costa rica citizenship.

[thaihome]

I don't think the overall tax rates are the problem. It's the idea that if you live and work in Thailand you still pay US taxes. As far as I know the US is the only western country with this arrangement. As a Brit living and working in Thailand I don't pay any UK taxes, if I was American I would be liable to pay US taxes regardless.

If you read the numerous posts on the subject you should realize the difference between having to "report" worldwide income and having to pay taxes on it. As long as you work in a country that has a higher tax rate than the US, you will not end up paying any US tax on any foreign income.

I have worked overseas for 15 years in 4 different countries and have not had to pay a dime in US tax on any foriegn earned income.

TH

[gark]

if u are jewish u have the right to return and become a citizen of israel; but frankly, (depending on how old u are) its a tough place to live: we have inflation, our neighbhors hate us, our passports are problematic (an arabic girlfriend from a village here went to american college in egypt as an honours scholorship student, she almost couldnt come back to visit her mom, the egyptians thought she was spy, sinc eshe spoke english, arabic and hebrew, and held an israeli passport. other arab friends have had similar problems when go to vacations , due to having an israeli passport). , acording to psychologists, we are always in a constant state of stress which is bad for health, we are the worst qualities of middle east and western societies... if u are not jewish, its along hard haul, a (and a snip possibly depending onhow u are doing the citizenship route)// i have dual, and made sure my kids have their dual us passports, apart form european ty pe things, cant see why someoen would change to an other coutnry's citizenshp.

as for thailand........5555555555555 dream on.... speak thai a little bit, are married... so are 99% of the people on the board, including some that are half thai, and they' re waiting years and years just for a permanent residancy card..good luck

bina

israel

I lived in Israel 3 years in the late 80s and loved every moment of it! For another citizenship, I'd look at one's European ancestry, if any, as many Euro countries offer citizenship based on 'blood' connection even thru a single grandparent if you can prove the lineage, or at some Caribbean nations which offer passports in exchange for money.

I would only give up my US passport if I had a gazillion dollars but sadly that is not the case.

[Tomtomtom69]

I have 3 nationalities, one of them being Australian and the other two being in Europe (Belgium and Switzerland). I am very proud of this fact and it makes travel a breeze. For example, as a Swiss passport holder, I can enter Laos without a visa and remain for up to 15 days. This came to good use in February, when I was driving around SE Asia in a Lao car and entered Laos 4 times. Had I used my Belgian or Aussie passport, I would have spent at least US$120 and 4 pages of one of those passports would be gone.

While I would never give up any of my citizenships (I don't have a good reason to) and since unlike the US, I am not taxed by any of these governments while living abroad, I would consider very carefully as to how you, the OP will survive being a stateless person IF you decide to renounce your nationality. For your information, it is possible to become a Thai citizen, but it's only easy if you are female and married to a Thai national. The other way round, and you'll need to have lived in Thailand for around 10 years (I believe it's 3 years on non-immigrant visas to qualify for permanent residency, plus 5 years on permanent residency, but including waiting periods it will end up being 10 or more years total) plus you will need to fulfill a whole list of requirements that you can search for on this forum and you better be able to be completely fluent in spoken and written Thai by that time.

Failing that, I believe you can purchase Cambodian citizenship for about US$265,000 by making a donation to the Cambodian government according to a Cambodian investment guide for foreigners that I remember receiving for free from the China-ASEAN trade fair in Nanning, Guangxi Province China last October.

I have also heard of other reports of being able to purchase Cambodian citizenship for much less than this amount. Or you could become a philantrophist like Angela Jolie and be given your Cambodian citizenship that way.

Aside from this or another country (Montenegro perhaps?) that offers something similar, I'd say wait to renounce your US citizenship until AFTER you have obtained at least one other nationality. It could just be Thai, but I wouldn't count on that happening for many more years.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Tomtomtom69

[Tomtomtom69]

While we're on the topic of the US requiring its citizens abroad to pay taxes, how the hell do they enforce it?!! Surely neither a US embassy official nor the US government has the power to arrest the OP for non payment of taxes while living in a foreign country?! The only penalty the US could enforce is arrest on return to the US (which the OP has no intention of going back to), or they could strip the OP of his US citizenship, which he still seems to want to do himself anyway.

Just wanted to point out the most obvious question that nobody seems to have asked so far.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Tomtomtom69

[Jingthing]

While we're on the topic of the US requiring its citizens abroad to pay taxes, how the hell do they enforce it?!! Surely neither a US embassy official nor the US government has the power to arrest the OP for non payment of taxes while living in a foreign country?! The only penalty the US could enforce is arrest on return to the US (which the OP has no intention of going back to), or they could strip the OP of his US citizenship, which he still seems to want to do himself anyway.

Just wanted to point out the most obvious question that nobody seems to have asked so far.

Passport renewal or even getting extra pages. Also a lot of Americans still have U.S. based financial accounts which can be attached.

[Tomtomtom69]

The us doesnt care if you relinquish your citizenship (sorry to burst your bubble you aint that important to them) and is not going to punish you for it. Many people have been doing it the last few years but guess what they were all very wealthy and could afford to do it and not look back. Personally I think you are just young and foolish enough to believe that all the worlds ills are to blame on the usa, well guess what all 5 permanent members of the un security council are guilty along with every other country in the world, the usa is just the youngest player at the table of corruption and happens to have been top dog for quite some time so they take all the blame. People always seem to forget who always gets asked first to do something when there is a problem in the world and then when it goes bad we take the blame and everyone else runs for cover. Personally i am glad to see china becoming a world power as maybe we can take a break from taking it up the ass every time something bad happens in the world. But dont come crying when you find out they are just as corrupt and self serving as america. There are many countries I know of that will give you citizenship if you invest the required amount of money there just pick your country and google citizenship, you dont have to come on a forum and use taxes as an excuse to air your dislike of your home country. One more thing is thailand would be the last country I would want citizenship in as it is the only country in the world still 95% indigenous, got it falang ?

"Taking it up the ass"? How quaint!

I like your last statement there - Thailand is hardly the only country in the world that is still 95% indigenous, you need to travel more, even if it's just in Asia. Try China, where westerners and other foreigners are always referred to as outsiders (waiguo ren or 外国人 in Chinese characters) even if they obtain Chinese citizenship, which probably only 100 westerners since the beginning of Chinese civilization have managed to do. Thailand is better because at least half Thai/half western or half Thai/half black, other Asian etc. are nowadays mostly accepted as citizens even if they are still referred to as "half children or luuk kreung in Thai ลูกครึ่ง" and the Thais are generally more foreigner friendly than their Chinese counterparts. One only needs to google the story of a half-African American, half-Chinese girl from Shanghai with Chinese citizenship who was racially abused online by thousands of Chinese after her appearence on a talent show there a year or two ago. Not only were those bloggers racist, but they didn't recognize her as Chinese, yet she feels as though she is fully Chinese and guess what? She can't even speak English, she only speaks Chinese!

Lastly, even if it is a pain to be accepted as a member of Thai society in the same ways as a Thai, if you do live in Thailand permanently and since you are allowed to keep your existing citizenship(s) upon becoming a Thai citizen, I'd say, go for it (if you are eligible)! Thailand is simply like the US or UK etc. were 100+ years ago before mass immigration and multiculturalism were adopted. You never know, in our lifetimes it may just be possible that Thailand will become a multicultural nation where every Tom, Dick and Jane who is white, black, Indian etc. can be fully accepted as Thais in say, 40-50 years time. Or then again, maybe not and China will recognize us "outsiders" as Chinese in that time instead!!! You never know and only time will tell.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Tomtomtom69

[Tomtomtom69]

While we're on the topic of the US requiring its citizens abroad to pay taxes, how the hell do they enforce it?!! Surely neither a US embassy official nor the US government has the power to arrest the OP for non payment of taxes while living in a foreign country?! The only penalty the US could enforce is arrest on return to the US (which the OP has no intention of going back to), or they could strip the OP of his US citizenship, which he still seems to want to do himself anyway.

Just wanted to point out the most obvious question that nobody seems to have asked so far.

Passport renewal or even getting extra pages. Also a lot of Americans still have U.S. based financial accounts which can be attached.

Aha I see. I like how the US embassy/consulate can add extra pages into their citizens passports. That's not an option for us Aussies, Swiss, Belgians or most others who have to get a new passport once they become full. I felt the financial pressure because I recently had to renew 2 passports, which were both still valid for a long time, but ran out of pages (I have done a lottttt of travelling in the past few years and even 3 passports can get full in that time, let alone 1).

[NBD]

While we're on the topic of the US requiring its citizens abroad to pay taxes, how the hell do they enforce it?!! Surely neither a US embassy official nor the US government has the power to arrest the OP for non payment of taxes while living in a foreign country?! The only penalty the US could enforce is arrest on return to the US (which the OP has no intention of going back to), or they could strip the OP of his US citizenship, which he still seems to want to do himself anyway.

Just wanted to point out the most obvious question that nobody seems to have asked so far.

Passport renewal or even getting extra pages. Also a lot of Americans still have U.S. based financial accounts which can be attached.

Aha I see. I like how the US embassy/consulate can add extra pages into their citizens passports. That's not an option for us Aussies, Swiss, Belgians or most others who have to get a new passport once they become full. I felt the financial pressure because I recently had to renew 2 passports, which were both still valid for a long time, but ran out of pages (I have done a lottttt of travelling in the past few years and even 3 passports can get full in that time, let alone 1).

Be glad you don't have a British one, which not only can't have new pages added, but has to be made in Hong Kong, and takes 5 weeks to get.

[gregb]

I have been researching this extensively over the past few months, as I am also of the opinion there is no value in retaining US citizenship. I hear people mention that the overseas income exclusion is $91,500, but has anyone considered how quickly that would go as the USD inflates away its value due to the Bernanke's QE to infinity? And yes, if you happen to live in a country with higher taxes than the US, then aside from the additional filing burden there is no tax cost to being an American. But what if you happen to live in a country with lower taxes, or have structured your compensation in such as way as to minimize your taxes? Then you are at a severe disadvantage as compared to your UK neighbor who enjoys the freedoms of a government that isn't smoking crack...at least in this instance. So he'll work for less and enjoy a higher standard of living.

I would like to suggest to the OP that while this isn't my first choice of options for citizenship based on my research, he give serious consideration to obtaining Cambodian citizenship through the payment of $50,000++ to the Cambodian government. There is a bunch of scare tactics on the internet claiming this citizenship could be revoked in the future, but it isn't clear how right now, and people tend to go quiet when you press them on it. It appears to be allowed through the Cambodian Law on Nationality of 1993, Chapter 4, Article 16. While we all know how fluid laws can be interpreted here, they also tend to follow the path of least resistance in most instances. And I would assume that if any government ever seriously did want to consider revoking this citizenship even in the face of its apparent legality, they would have a hard time doing it to someone who had learnt Khmer and had no other citizenship to fall back on.

So if the OP wants a citizenship that works mainly for travel in Cambodia and Thailand, go for Cambodia. It seems to be the obvious choice. But do try and respect your new country once you have obtained a passport and learn its language and history.

As for reasons to remain an American? I truly can't think of any. History shows that empires in decline are notoriously bad places to live, and it is quite clear the US intends to solve its problems by becoming increasingly aggressive and exercising the only advantage they have left...the world's largest military. Given the recent increases in restriction of freedoms to ordinary citizens and their disingenuous commitments to honesty and justice in horrible crimes like 911, it all adds up to be a place where only the truly desperate or delusional would want to stay.

Bina may say Israel is the pariah today, but I wouldn't be surprised to find the US trailing a close second as the decline of global industrial civilization starts to bite a bit harder.

But do make sure to get all your visas and passport issues resolved before renouncing. Being stateless in Thailand is not something I would want to try. And yes, the US will allow you to renounce, even if you don't have another citizenship to fall back on. You'd be insane to do it, but the option is there.

[james24]

r u mad?

Dont do it for the wrong reasons and make a whole load up to jusitfy it? If its to do with anything regarding being more accepted here then that aint gonna help.

Just cos your government aint that great, dont give up on your whole country.

[radster2212]

Wow I'm from the UK and would never give up my British passport for any country. Just think how hard and what extremes people go through just to get a USA green card, and your going to give yours up. It defines who you are and should always give you a sense of pride. Don't just give it way for a dream.

[lovetotravel]

Sorry Greg, but I think you've lost the plot. Who in their right mind would invest 50k with the Cambo government? You think Thailand is bad. Cambo is much worse. And if you want to travel outside SE Asia, forget it. You're stuck.

Sure, America is hurting. The whole world is hurting? Have you read the news about Europe? These are troubled times. But America won't decline like you are speculating in your lifetime. Maybe your children's. Probably your grand children's. Look at the UK. The Empire has shrunk, but it's still a great country. With problems just like most other countries are experiencing now.

You'd be crazy to give up your citizenship in such trying times.

[marstons]

Ain't gonna happen. Stop dreaming.

It's gonna happen. It's just a matter of time. I think I can have it completed within 5-10 years if I hurry.

The way I see it, my freedom is threatened by an increasingly fascist and controlling government. I'm trying to get out now before it is too late. And I'm certainly not the only American trying to do it.

so which country does not have a facist and controlling goverment, you mentioned becoming a Thai citezen, when was the last time tanks intervened to over throw a democratically elected USA goverment. No you really have not thought this through. Edited July 17, 2012 by marstons

[NewlyMintedThai]

And Cambodia is basically a tin pot dictatorship. This makes no sense at all.

[JimGant]

"P.S. If you are married filing jointly and make under 69k, your tax rate is 15%. Tough to beat."

Yes, your marginal tax rate -- but your "effective" tax rate is the key (as, Romney's effective tax rate is 16%, although he's in the highest (marginal) tax bracket of 35%).

Using 2012 figures (15% bracket for married filing jointly ends at a taxable income of $70,700):

-- If your gross income is $19,500 or less, you pay nothing (two 3800 exemptions, 11,900 standard deduction).

-- If gross income is $37, 000 -- your effective tax rate is 4.7%.

If gross income is $70,000 -- your effective tax rate is 9.6%.

Not free -- but not as onerous as your "tax bracket" makes it seem. And, yes, you can file "jointly" even if your Thai wife can't even spell amerika, i.e. has no US affiliation.

The OP said:

"And BTW, taxes in the US are actually quite high. 25-40% is the normal tax rate. Only the rich and low income people who have lots of kids have these "low" taxes."

Even with a gross income of $240,000, your effective tax rate is less than 23% (even tho' you're now in the 33% tax bracket).

I have a feeling the OP is closer to the 0% effective tax rate than anything approaching 25%. And, of course, if earning money in Thailand, he gets to exclude $95100 from US taxes in tax year 2012.

I hope US passports aren't being burned due to faulty tax math.....

[NewlyMintedThai]

Taxes paid to the Thai government are also deductible, per the tax treaty. No?

[JimGant]

"I hear people mention that the overseas income exclusion is $91,500, but has anyone considered how quickly that would go as the USD inflates away its value due to the Bernanke QE to infinity?"

Actually, it's up to $95,100 this year (from $92,900), due to inflation indexing. But, yeah, Bernanke's hyper inflation, brought about by QE1 and QE2, were really brutal. Actually, I keep waiting for QE3 for a little more kick to the economy -- and actually hope at least a little inflation comes from it.

"But what if you happen to live in a country with lower taxes, or have structured your compensation in such a way as to minimize your taxes? Then you are at a severe disadvantage as compared to your UK neighbor who enjoys freedoms of a government that isn't smoking crack."

If your talking about working abroad, even if that country had no income tax, you'd still be allowed the foreign earned income exclusion of $95k off your US taxes.

And if looking at retirement pensions, my UK neighbor pays British taxes on his government pension, same as I do on my military pension. Except my pension is indexed for inflation -- my UK neighbor's pension (at least one of them, anyhow) is not indexed due to his living abroad.

"Given the recent increases in restriction of freedoms to ordinary citizens and their disingenuous commitments to honesty and justice in horrible crimes like 911, it all adds up to be a place where only the truly desperate or delusional would want to stay."

Wow, this from someone who believes 911 was a plot by the US Government (as you indicated in a thread several months back -- still believe that?). Talk about the "truly delusional."

If there's anything I can do to expedite your officially becoming an "unamerican, " please don't hesitate to call.</p>

[JimGant]

"Taxes paid to the Thai government are also deductible, per the tax treaty. No?"

For Yanks, the Thai taxes paid on the $95100 baht equivalent exclusion are NOT allowed as a tax credit (or deduction, if you choose). However, Thai taxes on income over this amount can be used as a credit against US taxes, subject to percentage limitations if your total taxable income is more than just your foreign income.

I'll pay Thai taxes in full on my Thai earned income, same as my Brit neighbor. However, he (apparently) won't be required to file a Brit income tax form if this is his sole source of income. I, on the other hand, have to file to get the foreign earned income exclusion -- and any tax credits for amounts over this exclusion. Since over $95k puts me in the Thai tax bracket of 30% -- which is higher than my US bracket -- I'll not have to pay any US tax (assuming no income from US sources, which then would reduce tax credit allowed, although such a "loss" can be carried forward or backward to other tax years).

So, at least when it comes to earned income from abroad, Yanks are at no real disadvantage.