Trying To Stop The Rot In Thailand's Schools By Giving Out Tablet Computers

[JohnAllan]

Lucky that.

During my times, I got the free LOG TABLES.

Anyone still know how to use them?

I do and use a slide rule!!!!. When I get change in a shop I can calculate it faster in my head the the shop assistant can with a calculator, always astonishes them. ( Not a boast, merely saying my generation were made to learn to multiply, subtract etc, there were no calculators; it stays with you)

No doubt a similar problem to me, where I am often waiting for the assistant, and the calculator, to catch up.

[LucidLucifer]

Not mental arithmatic, but calculators do have a role in teaching children maths, as tablets do in teaching other curriculum areas.

The question is, are these cheap Chinese knock-offs good for the job, and do the teachers have first clue how to use them to the best effect? I'd say no on both counts.

Huh?

Are you saying mental arithmatics have no role in teaching maths?

But calculators do?

Guess thats why the girl in the shop this morning (mathayom 6 graduated) had to fumble for her phone after she noticed the shop calculator's battery had run out...

She needed to find out how much change to give from a 1000 baht note on a 480 baht bill...

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Thaivisa Connect App

Huh?

Maybe you should read the quote as well as a response before replying; i'll help you......

Solar powered calculators are affordable but won't teach the kids maths

The point was made that calculators won't teach the children maths. I responded by saying:

'Not mental arithmatic (i.e. calculators will not teach the children mental maths), but calculators do have a role in teaching children maths.....'

[JohnAllan]

Lucky that.

During my times, I got the free LOG TABLES.

Anyone still know how to use them?

To the extent that I recognised they would have been useful to my son for some recently posed maths/science problems. I helped him to some degree, then found myself gobsmacked when the teacher marked most wrong. Gobsmacked, not least, because most - if not all - were actually correct . . .

[Lingba]

I'm a teacher at a university...the kids have all been given these tablets...Peronally, I think its a waste of time...Before the handout of tablets, the students had enough problems trying to stay awake and focused in the classroom...Now they have this new toy that keeps them further from where they need to be in regards to being attentive, alert and participative.....they are too busy playing their little games etc..It's just a joke....

Thank you for an astute observation from someone in the frontline. That might not say it all . . . but it certainly says a lot!

You're right..It doesn't say it all...just the tip of the iceberg...I could go on and on..but I'd end up burning holes on this webpage

[KKvampire]

I'm a teacher at a university...the kids have all been given these tablets...Peronally, I think its a waste of time...Before the handout of tablets, the students had enough problems trying to stay awake and focused in the classroom...Now they have this new toy that keeps them further from where they need to be in regards to being attentive, alert and participative.....they are too busy playing their little games etc..It's just a joke....

"Kids" in universities in Thailand have not "all been given these tablets" They have been given to P1 students age 7 and 8. You are no more a university teacher than I am.

[monty]

Not mental arithmatic, but calculators do have a role in teaching children maths, as tablets do in teaching other curriculum areas.

The question is, are these cheap Chinese knock-offs good for the job, and do the teachers have first clue how to use them to the best effect? I'd say no on both counts.

Huh?

Are you saying mental arithmatics have no role in teaching maths?

But calculators do?

Guess thats why the girl in the shop this morning (mathayom 6 graduated) had to fumble for her phone after she noticed the shop calculator's battery had run out...

She needed to find out how much change to give from a 1000 baht note on a 480 baht bill...

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Thaivisa Connect App

Huh?

Maybe you should read the quote as well as a response before replying; i'll help you......

Solar powered calculators are affordable but won't teach the kids maths

The point was made that calculators won't teach the children maths. I responded by saying:

'Not mental arithmatic (i.e. calculators will not teach the children mental maths), but calculators do have a role in teaching children maths.....'

Sorry, had it indeed wrongly interpretted!

Yeah, calculators do have a role in learning advanced maths, but only after mastering the underlying basics. Which I feel is not happening over here.

And unless a student can mentally (or with pen and paper) complete basic arithmetic, he should be banned from touching them...

Every normally gifted person should be able to mentally do basic arthmatic.

There cannot be any excuse for a person with a high school degree not being able to substract 480 from 1000. Even numerically challenged people usually manage that.

So what is the point of a rather advanced piece of equipment like a tablet, if a big part of the students cannot master the underlying logic of a simple calculator?

Don't get me wrong, the blame is not on the students, the majority is plenty capable, the responsibilty is wholly on the educational system, simply letting students seriously lacking in certain subjects simply progress through the years and hand them out diploma's.

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Thaivisa Connect App

[orpheus454]

I'm a teacher at a university...the kids have all been given these tablets...Peronally, I think its a waste of time...Before the handout of tablets, the students had enough problems trying to stay awake and focused in the classroom...Now they have this new toy that keeps them further from where they need to be in regards to being attentive, alert and participative.....they are too busy playing their little games etc..It's just a joke....

At least they've given you a scapegoat for your teaching deficiencies...

[Renoir]

Thailand medical doctors have a good reputation. How can it be if the education is so bad? I have also heard about good dentists and I wonder about them too. Maybe some have studied abroad but I guess it is only a few. Maybe somebody can explain this mystery to me.

I also wonder why education is so bad in Thailand when I hear that Thais are much more respectful of teachers than in the West.

Renoir

[atyclb]

The chief problem is that children’s educational attainments are falling, even as more money is being lavished on the schools. Thailand now spends about 20% of the national budget on education, more than it devotes to any other sector. The budget has doubled over a decade. Yet results are getting worse, both in absolute terms and relative to other countries in South-East Asia.

No, the chief problem is that no one in this country is aware of this, at all. The majority in this country is so dedicated to patting itself on the back and chanting mantras about the intrinsic superiority of the Kingdom, that they are not only not capable of intellectually recognizing the state of education but they are too thin-skinned to emotionally survive the realization that they are, in many cases, non-functional economic actors. As technology improves, those jobs handing out change to people on the BTS will disappear like so many other of the menial jobs that keep government employment figures looking good. Another article posted here today announced that Thais should not focus on "competing" with other countries, but rather "cooperating". It must be nice to be so disconnected from reality, on many levels. Perhaps I'm just jealous.

Thailand will always choose to ignore and push their problems under the rug rather than acknowledge and face them head on. Generally, people seem to believe that that is the morally preferable way of handling things, as the rude aggression and frankness of Europeans and Americans is a major turn-off.

You can include Japan, Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong also. There is a "Korea Fascination" in Thailand. They see pop stars, an advanced successful society, and white skin to boot. I doubt there is much thought as to why Korea is doing so well. Education!!!!!!! Organization, efficiency. Thailand is Thailands own worst enemy. The circle of self perpetuating ineptitude.

I have educational background at university and grad/ doctoral level.

The tablets could work if a progressive curriculum is delivered. It would need to a fun curriculum initially to keep them interested until the mindset of needing fun is derailed.

[orpheus454]

I'm a teacher at a university...the kids have all been given these tablets...Peronally, I think its a waste of time...Before the handout of tablets, the students had enough problems trying to stay awake and focused in the classroom...Now they have this new toy that keeps them further from where they need to be in regards to being attentive, alert and participative.....they are too busy playing their little games etc..It's just a joke....

Thank you for an astute observation from someone in the frontline. That might not say it all . . . but it certainly says a lot!

Sure does... says that Lingba isn't a very good teacher!

[laobali]

Not if they're English is as bad as this report suggests.

... or this sentence?

Better to take that out on the likes of the Nation, who should know better.

Is that who wrote they're instead of their? Pot calling the kettle black up there, I think.

[hellodolly]

mmm, maybe this program should be used as an opportunity to develop solar energy.....It will be quite useful to power the tablets where there is NO electricity....

Wind power would be cost-free - so long as we could find a way to prevent the politicians charging fees to generate it. Then again . . .

You had me going there for a minute I thought you were going to suggest hooking a politician up to a wind powered generator at every school.

[monty]

Thailand medical doctors have a good reputation. How can it be if the education is so bad? I have also heard about good dentists and I wonder about them too. Maybe some have studied abroad but I guess it is only a few. Maybe somebody can explain this mystery to me.

I also wonder why education is so bad in Thailand when I hear that Thais are much more respectful of teachers than in the West.

Renoir

The majority of people working in the medical profession come from families with higher disposable incomes. They many times went to schools not accesible by the average upcountry youth.

And to finish any medical schooling you need to be a natural good learner. People like that crave knowledge and will find it even if their educational system is not supplying it.

Have you ever noticed those math tutoring schools in Bkk?

In Europe we don't have them, we manage to learn math at school!

The existance of such businesses in itself reflects the flaws of the regular educational system.

Don't forget that the children of your average rice farmer does not have access to these evening/ weekend schools due to limited financial resources. They should not be needed in the first place if the regular schools were up to their jobs...

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[QualityTouristNumberOne]

Let's just hope they're not advanced enough(the schools) to do what a few British schools(or was it the U.S?) were caught doing 2 years or so ago,

basically they were remotely turning on the webcams and audio on the laptops they loaned students and spying on them at home...imagine the misuse of THAT possibility here?

[Insight]

the big leader will one day talk to them all thru the tablet, mission accomplished ... check

Based on the quality of the tablets issued we're surely in for many more "misunderstandings"...

[mussen]

Thailand medical doctors have a good reputation. How can it be if the education is so bad? I have also heard about good dentists and I wonder about them too. Maybe some have studied abroad but I guess it is only a few. Maybe somebody can explain this mystery to me.

Where do Thai doctors have a good reputation? Certainly not in the west?

[bangon04]

"Thailand now spends about 20% of the national budget on education, more than it devotes to any other sector. The budget has doubled over a decade."

Sssshhh - don't tell the Generals. They will want more aircraft carriers and submarines.

[Unkomoncents]

Thailand medical doctors have a good reputation. How can it be if the education is so bad? I have also heard about good dentists and I wonder about them too. Maybe some have studied abroad but I guess it is only a few. Maybe somebody can explain this mystery to me.

I also wonder why education is so bad in Thailand when I hear that Thais are much more respectful of teachers than in the West.

Renoir

The medical doctors that have a good reputation work in one of two or three private hospitals that are buoyed by medical tourism revenues, particularly from the Middle East (Bumrungrad, Samitavej, Bangkok Nursing Home, etc; Bumrungrad is the official government healthcare provider for a couple of the Emirates, as healthcare in the Middle East is generally abysmal). Outside of those hospitals, Thailand has a brain drain problem, as better performing doctors would rather seek wages in better-paying countries (with better resources and conditions, to boot). So I would say, as with most things in the Kingdom, that there are radically different standards of quality from one hospital to the next.

As for the education scene: the "respectful" Thais you're referring to are the students. The administrators as most Thai schools are a completely different story. Also, being complacent and obedient doesn't usually lead to a highly productive, innovative future.

Ultimately, the problems and future challenges Thailand faces in the education arena are extremely complex, so to talk about them in a forum post like this is to gravely oversimplify. I would say that the cultural attitude towards the acquisition of knowledge and work, coupled with a fairly rigid class system, a complete lack of standards or oversight, and a penchant corrupt, backroom dealings all play a hand in Thailand's educational woes. But I still have only scratched the surface.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Unkomoncents

[LucidLucifer]

Sorry, had it indeed wrongly interpretted!

Yeah, calculators do have a role in learning advanced maths, but only after mastering the underlying basics. Which I feel is not happening over here.

And unless a student can mentally (or with pen and paper) complete basic arithmetic, he should be banned from touching them...

Every normally gifted person should be able to mentally do basic arthmatic.

There cannot be any excuse for a person with a high school degree not being able to substract 480 from 1000. Even numerically challenged people usually manage that.

So what is the point of a rather advanced piece of equipment like a tablet, if a big part of the students cannot master the underlying logic of a simple calculator?

Don't get me wrong, the blame is not on the students, the majority is plenty capable, the responsibilty is wholly on the educational system, simply letting students seriously lacking in certain subjects simply progress through the years and hand them out diploma's.

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Thaivisa Connect App

We all miss read things, my apologies if my reply was a little curt.

I totally agree with you regarding basics must be mastered before calculator use is taught, but my old school has been using tablets (specifically iPads) for nearly two years now. We were one of the pioneering schools in the UK to introduce them in KS1, a fact acknowledged by Apple UK.

Their use has been cross curricula, from handwriting, phonics, grammar, narrative writing, science, web-based research, and numeracy.

In regard to maths, their usefulness in getting children to practice and apply their mental calculation skills is profound. There are some truly fantastic apps which engage, amuse and most importantly educate the children.

This isn't just in using and applying number, but shape, space, time and data-handling. Not many KS1 children walk into the school each morning and actively seek to practice the skills they leant the previous day. Give them a good app and an iPad and they will. As a motivational tool, as well as an educational one, they are unbeatable.

We intergrated their use into every single lesson, as long as there was a benefit to doing so; the majority of the time there was. This would not be by the whole class, but by a single group. With the high level of differentiation required in UK primary classrooms, this was not a problem, our teaching was set up to do this successfully.

My doubt remains that they will be used effectively by Thai teachers, and that the tablets themselves are of such inferior quality to make them next to useless. I admit I have yet to see one first hand, so I could be proved wrong; I don't think I will be though.

** and to the poster that said they will cause a distraction, i'd recommend some professional development in behaviour management......

Edited June 19, 2012 by LucidLucifer

[HaleySabai]

and this is only a short list. Budget is spent on everything except education.

as usual, all 'form' and no 'content'...... hopeless!

[MikeOboe57]

Sorry, had it indeed wrongly interpretted!

Yeah, calculators do have a role in learning advanced maths, but only after mastering the underlying basics. Which I feel is not happening over here.

And unless a student can mentally (or with pen and paper) complete basic arithmetic, he should be banned from touching them...

Every normally gifted person should be able to mentally do basic arthmatic.

There cannot be any excuse for a person with a high school degree not being able to substract 480 from 1000. Even numerically challenged people usually manage that.

So what is the point of a rather advanced piece of equipment like a tablet, if a big part of the students cannot master the underlying logic of a simple calculator?

Don't get me wrong, the blame is not on the students, the majority is plenty capable, the responsibilty is wholly on the educational system, simply letting students seriously lacking in certain subjects simply progress through the years and hand them out diploma's.

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Thaivisa Connect App

We all miss read things, my apologies if my reply was a little curt.

I totally agree with you regarding basics must be mastered before calculator use is taught, but my old school has been using tablets (specifically iPads) for nearly two years now. We were one of the pioneering schools in the UK to introduce them in KS1, a fact acknowledged by Apple UK.

Their use has been cross curricula, from handwriting, phonics, grammar, narrative writing, science, web-based research, and numeracy.

In regard to maths, their usefulness in getting children to practice and apply their mental calculation skills is profound. There are some truly fantastic apps which engage, amuse and most importantly educate the children.

This isn't just in using and applying number, but shape, space, time and data-handling. Not many KS1 children walk into the school each morning and actively seek to practice the skills they leant the previous day. Give them a good app and an iPad and they will. As a motivational tool, as well as an educational one, they are unbeatable.

We intergrated their use into every single lesson, as long as there was a benefit to doing so; the majority of the time there was. This would not be by the whole class, but by a single group. With the high level of differentiation required in UK primary classrooms, this was not a problem, our teaching was set up to do this successfully.

My doubt remains that they will be used effectively by Thai teachers, and that the tablets themselves are of such inferior quality to make them next to useless. I admit I have yet to see one first hand, so I could be proved wrong; I don't think I will be though.

** and to the poster that said they will cause a distraction, i'd recommend some professional development in behaviour management......

Well so far we haven't heard anything about those useful "Thai Learning Apps" to be installed on these tablets. I suspect that they are handed out "as is".

[rubl]

Lucky that.

During my times, I got the free LOG TABLES.

Anyone still know how to use them?

Yep, and a slide rule..... didn't need power for them either.

I wonder how much of the budget is actually used to educate the kids.

The MoE had a final THB 420.4 billion budget allocated in January 2012 for fiscal 2012. That's 18 - 20 % of the 'normal expenses' part of the National Budget. Additional budgets have been asked to give some kids a tablet to keep them quiet.

As for how much of the budget is actually spent on educating kids, I'm afraid for that I don't even have to ask my mother to search the attic for my old slide rule and mail it to me urgently. Mind you official figures on how budgets are spent are as hard to find as reliable details. Policy statements are much easier. The January 2012 MoE statement from Prof. Suchart starts with "Police Lieutenant Colonel Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra has said about education that ..."

Edited June 19, 2012 by rubl

[inquisitive]

Thailand medical doctors have a good reputation. How can it be if the education is so bad? I have also heard about good dentists and I wonder about them too. Maybe some have studied abroad but I guess it is only a few. Maybe somebody can explain this mystery to me.

I also wonder why education is so bad in Thailand when I hear that Thais are much more respectful of teachers than in the West.

Renoir

The medical doctors that have a good reputation work in one of two or three private hospitals that are buoyed by medical tourism revenues, particularly from the Middle East (Bumrungrad, Samitavej, Bangkok Nursing Home, etc; Bumrungrad is the official government healthcare provider for a couple of the Emirates, as healthcare in the Middle East is generally abysmal). Outside of those hospitals, Thailand has a brain drain problem, as better performing doctors would rather seek wages in better-paying countries (with better resources and conditions, to boot). So I would say, as with most things in the Kingdom, that there are radically different standards of quality from one hospital to the next.

As for the education scene: the "respectful" Thais you're referring to are the students. The administrators as most Thai schools are a completely different story. Also, being complacent and obedient doesn't usually lead to a highly productive, innovative future.

Ultimately, the problems and future challenges Thailand faces in the education arena are extremely complex, so to talk about them in a forum post like this is to gravely oversimplify. I would say that the cultural attitude towards the acquisition of knowledge and work, coupled with a fairly rigid class system, a complete lack of standards or oversight, and a penchant corrupt, backroom dealings all play a hand in Thailand's educational woes. But I still have only scratched the surface.

I am an American medical professional who has taught other medical professionals at the post-graduate level here. I have also served as director of an American university's international post graduate and continuing education division. That's gotten me involved in quite a few places around the country here, both public and private. I feel in an unusually good position to evaluate the state of medical and dental care here having experienced it from both sides of the equation - both as patient and provider. Even the most cursory review would surely take more than a few pages, though, so let me summarize it this way: The weakest link inthe medical/dental establishment here is the same as everywhere else in the world. The problem is that the system is carried out by humans, and they come in all flavors - ranging from talented, conscientious, and sincere, to dullards, slaggards, and opportunists. In most cases the curriculum weeds out anyone that is not at least better than average in schooling ability, and a suprising number of practicioners here have supplemented their local education with education abroad. So at one time or another they were all taught how to be good practicioners.

That's good. Just like in the USA or anywhere else, however, there is very high incentive to cut corners and take the easy way out of problems. Unlike the USA, there is very little accountabilityhere on the part of the practicioner, with totally predictable results. I will not give you my long laundry list of absolutely incredible practices I've seen being performed here by some of the nations very top doctors, but if those things were to have happened in New York, these doctors would have lost their licenses and probably their houses as well. What people might find the most surprising, however, is that the practicioners KNEW they were not doing the right thing at the time they did it. They knew, but did the wrong thing anyway because it was easier, more profitable, quicker, or whatever. And they were confident that now one - including their staff - would know that they had just mistreated their patient. No one would know, they would still be considered a fantastic guy doing great things for the community, they'd get lots of money, and they still had time for a round of golf. So who could blame them? (Well, WE would of course, but we never know about these things when they happen)

I want to be quick to point out that the state of malpractice in America is not anything to be emulated either, nor is the system that has malpractice insurance costing tens of thousands of dollars per year for each practicioner. That brings along its own kind of madness. What I do want to say is that the best medical care in Thailand is on a par with the best elsewhere, but it is even more rare here than you can imagine. It's rare enough in the USA where any practicioner with a brain practices defensive medicine.

Shiny new machinery and beautiful nurses gliding over newly carapeted hallways don't mean a thing when caring, thoughtful, current, and dedicated lifesaving care is called for. I personally know of two patients who were nearly killed by two different physicians at Bumrungrad totally out of lack of concern. And for what it is worth, neither of the patients had any idea that it had happened to them. (Note that I only mention Bumrungrad here as an example since it was mentioned as an example of the best of the best. They absolutely do not hae the monopoly on this problem. Can you imagine what goes on in an upcountry public facility?)

So as other posters have already pointed out, the education (and medical) systems here have a myriad of intertwined and complex problems to solve. I have worked with several very sincere people at very high level who are aware of this situation and sincerely want to address it. They assure me that things are getting better, but nobody really knows the best way to go. Like me, they see the problem, but don't know the answer. I am, however, very pleased to see that they are trying to find one.

[Baloo22]

Living in the West, we are used to public schools at least striving to prepare students to advance in society and move on and up.

Last year I had a conversation with an expat who has lived here around 20 years and he explained to me that the Thai public education system is designed to first properly indoctrinate and then to educate the lower class only to level required to perform their part in Thai society as farmers, menial laborers, drivers, etc. It's part of the whole system to ensure the continued effective control and position of the higher-class "pu-yai" or "better people" in Thai society. He also said that any parent that cares about their child and has any kind of money sends their child to a private school.

I do not blindly accept what anybody tells me but I will add that I had many conversations with this person and many things that he has told me about Thai society and life here that I have been able to substantiate have all turned out to be pretty much right on the mark.

[LucidLucifer]

Well so far we haven't heard anything about those useful "Thai Learning Apps" to be installed on these tablets. I suspect that they are handed out "as is".

I think you're likely right.

Tablets are a great tool, but only if they are used in the right way. I can remember the first time I walked into the library of a Thai school, my first thought was, 'where are all the books?'

It's the same principle at work here; having a library is one thing, but you need decent resources in there for it to be useful; a tablet with little functionality and poor software....hardly worth it.

[whybother]

I'm a teacher at a university...the kids have all been given these tablets...Peronally, I think its a waste of time...Before the handout of tablets, the students had enough problems trying to stay awake and focused in the classroom...Now they have this new toy that keeps them further from where they need to be in regards to being attentive, alert and participative.....they are too busy playing their little games etc..It's just a joke....

What are the grade one kids that have been given these tablets doing going to university?

[Thaddeus]

The January 2012 MoE statement from Prof. Suchart starts with "Police Lieutenant Colonel Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra has said about education that ..."

The only surprising thing about that is he hasn't awarded himself a Ph.D. yet.

[Thaddeus]

I'm a teacher at a university...the kids have all been given these tablets...Peronally, I think its a waste of time...Before the handout of tablets, the students had enough problems trying to stay awake and focused in the classroom...Now they have this new toy that keeps them further from where they need to be in regards to being attentive, alert and participative.....they are too busy playing their little games etc..It's just a joke....

What are the grade one kids that have been given these tablets doing going to university?

There could be two explanations, they are exceptionally gifted and managed to skip more than a couple of years of schooling or..........

[LucidLucifer]

There could be two explanations, they are exceptionally gifted and managed to skip more than a couple of years of schooling or..........

My money is on 'or'........

[whybother]

There could be two explanations, they are exceptionally gifted and managed to skip more than a couple of years of schooling or..........

My money is on 'or'........

That's where their money was too.

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