Who Is Going To Clean Trashy Beaches In Krabi Region?

[maidu]

I just returned from 5 days in Krabi, including nearby beaches. It's no secret that there is lots of trash along seashores and in the waters. Though I had a lovely time, hiking, climbing, motorbiking, meditating, .....am still bothered by the trash.

PREMISE

Since Thais aren't going to pick up and dispose of trash responsibly, why not farang (who comprise most of the visitors)?

Whether locals or visitors or in official capacity (park officials, etc), Thais aren't up to the job - either because they don't care enough (are inured to trash and loud noises), or figure someone else should deal with it, or it won't do any good anyway. It would be the same argument for never taking a shower - 'why wash the body, when it's going to get sweaty later....?'

HERE A SUGGESTION OF WHAT FARANG CAN DO:

Some farang, even on vacation, don't mind picking up trash some of the time, say a half hour per day. If you don't believe me, take a trash bag out on a beach and start asking a few farang to assist you in picking up litter. You'll get accomplices, I promise.

TAKE IT TO A HIGHER LEVEL:

Get a two wheeled cart (bicycle wheels), and use it to store bags of trash, while combing the beach. Get others to assist. You may be surprised how willingly others will join in.

EMBARRASSMENT FACTOR:

It's known that embarrassing someone or some entity is often an effective vehicle for change. It happened recently, when PT politicians, awol from parliament, were getting their vote buttons pushed by their buddies who were present. It doesn't take much to clean a stretch of beach of plastic and broken bottles (I'd be curious to know how many foot gougings get to Krabi area hospitals, per week). As we know, plastic bags play havoc on marine species, not least sea turtles who think it's jellyfish. Thai fishermen and other boaters, are probably the #1 trashers of Krabi's coastline. There's no doubt they toss trash overboard. One or more YouTube videos might put a dent in that awful trend. Similarly, YouTube videos of the trashed beaches would gain notice, and possibly embarrass Thai authorities out of their ennui.

[TheWalkingMan]

I understand what you are saying and I will play the devil's advocate here...

I am on holiday in a foreign country and I should be the person cleaning up the beach because the locals don't give a toss? I paid for my flight, hotel, in-country transportation, got hit with dual pricing, had a touch of the bad belly, got yelled at for parking my rented motorbike on a public street, got called a cheap charley by a local and now I get to enjoy the fun of picking up trash.

Sounds like a winner.

I do like the youtube idea though. Take a walk, video the garbage and upload.

[klongmuang]

Dive shops and local expats together with many Thai people organize a beach clean up every year in October. It does not make sense to clean them up now, as tomorrow you can clean them again. I am such a volunteer, as well. Due to the Western Winds much trash is washed up the shore. During the main season the massage ladies do cleaning work every day.

[maidu]

I understand what you are saying and I will play the devil's advocate here...

I am on holiday in a foreign country and I should be the person cleaning up the beach because the locals don't give a toss? I paid for my flight, hotel, in-country transportation, got hit with dual pricing, had a touch of the bad belly, got yelled at for parking my rented motorbike on a public street, got called a cheap charley by a local and now I get to enjoy the fun of picking up trash. Sounds like a winner.

I do like the youtube idea though. Take a walk, video the garbage and upload.

As I mentioned in my OP, SOME farang would be glad to assist with picking up trash. The word 'some' means a certain % less than all.

Dive shops and local expats together with many Thai people organize a beach clean up every year in October. It does not make sense to clean them up now, as tomorrow you can clean them again. I am such a volunteer, as well. Due to the Western Winds much trash is washed up the shore. During the main season the massage ladies do cleaning work every day.

It's like saying, "we sweep the shop once a year. Why sweep it weekly, when dust and debris are always adding to the mess?" Yes, it's good there's a beach clean up, but once a year is waaaaaaay too seldom. I commend you for joining in the clean up (and the massage women, and anyone else), but there's much more that could be done, and it wouldn't cost anything except a bit of some peoples' time and effort.

Has anyone spoken seriously with the fishermen? Have any fishermen been busted for tossing raw trash in the sea? My guess is a big 'no' on both those issues. This is a country where 10,000 people per day can drive through red lights at intersections in one small city, and not one citation has ever been issued (yes, in my town of Chiang Rai). It's also a country where authorities are helpless to police extortionist jetski workers, or fishermen dumping tons of trash daily in to the sea.

Do Thai coastal towns dump their trash (and effluent) in to the sea also? Wouldn't surprise me if they did.

[klongmuang]

It's like saying, "we sweep the shop once a year. Why sweep it weekly, when dust and debris are always adding to the mess?" Yes, it's good there's a beach clean up, but once a year is waaaaaaay too seldom. I commend you for joining in the clean up (and the massage women, and anyone else), but there's much more that could be done, and it wouldn't cost anything except a bit of some peoples' time and effort.

You're cordially invited to join us for the next beach clean up. Why you didn't organize a clean up whilst you were spending your time in Ao Nang ?

[grumpyoldman]

Maidu the topic and the thinking is commendable but you are sort of going about this in a funny way.

Complaining on a Forum board really isn't going to do a whole lot.

As KhlongMuang has pointed out, due to the winds this time of year trash blows in from as far away as Bangladesh.

Friends of mine here in Phuket organized a trash cleanup at our local beach last weekend. Piled up about a dozen of the big green trash bags.

Again as poster KhlongMuang mentions, instead of organizing and taking action, you are on the board bragging about sleeping with 20 year olds (?)............from this thread you have started it seems it would have been more important to pick up some trash(?).

Less spouting and more get up and go would be my advice. No offense intended and BR, GOM

[bikkalad]

20yr old trash?????

[maidu]

It's like saying, "we sweep the shop once a year. Why sweep it weekly, when dust and debris are always adding to the mess?" Yes, it's good there's a beach clean up, but once a year is waaaaaaay too seldom. I commend you for joining in the clean up (and the massage women, and anyone else), but there's much more that could be done, and it wouldn't cost anything except a bit of some peoples' time and effort.

You're cordially invited to join us for the next beach clean up. Why you didn't organize a clean up whilst you were spending your time in Ao Nang ?

I reside in Chiang Rai. I do trash pick-ups here sometimes. I made a mention of a trashy scene at a newly built bridge here (on T.Visa) and within a week there were trash bins and less litter at that site, so a mention on a blog may get some positive results.

I did some litter pick-up for the few days I was in Ao Nang area, but it wasn't until the day I returned home that I decided how it could be done (not an original thought process, I'm sure) on a larger scale. Namely: get a simple cart with a pair of bicycle wheels, plus some plastic bins. I seriously considered (and am considering) getting one or more carts and driving them down to Krabi in my p.u. truck, because with my own vehicle down there, I could more readily transport operations from one beach to another. Along with that, the carts would have info written on the sides in Thai and English, and perhaps other languages - so any interested person might get a modicum of info about how to lessen the problem.

There might be some resistance (to such a blatant stance by a farang) by locals. Not sure. But Thais are easily offended, and they don't want farang to do inter-active things in their Kingdom that don't relate directly to spending money.

Sorry if this offends some people - because it focuses unfairly on the Krabi area, but it could probably apply just as well to any other beach front region along Thailand's sea shores. And I acknowledge that trash gets dumped irresponsibly in many other parts of the world. Three reasons I focus on Krabi area is because (1) I was just there (2) I like the area v. much and (3) it would take a relatively small effort to do a lot of clean up, and for little cost.

[maidu]

At some farang colleges and U's, there are accredited courses in 'Garbology'. The study of waste, and how best to deal with it. Are there any such courses in Thai colleges or U's? Doubtful.

Just as it's important to know about and maintain one's digestive tract (from mouth to anus), it's important to deal responsibly with trash. Just as important, is to produce less trash. For example: when purchasing any item in a shop, it will be wrapped in between one to five layers of plastic. Consider taking the the plastic wrappings off (when feasible) and leave it on the shop counter, while gently explaining to management that there's too much wrapping. The shop will have to dispose of the trash, and if/when that happens often enough, the shop will be compelled to inform the suppliers of the hassle, and so on up the line. It's possible, suppliers will then lessen their overly cumbersome packaging, and it will be win-win for everyone.

Similarly, there are lengthy discussions about power production (coal vs fossil vs renewables vs nuclear, etc) but rarely, in such discussions, is the issue of using less power discussed. There are bazillion ways to lessen electricity usage, but how often do we hear authorities or businesses or universities seriously broach that subject? Rarely.

[BusyBee123]

At some farang colleges and U's, there are accredited courses in 'Garbology'. The study of waste, and how best to deal with it. Are there any such courses in Thai colleges or U's? Doubtful.

Just as it's important to know about and maintain one's digestive tract (from mouth to anus), it's important to deal responsibly with trash. Just as important, is to produce less trash. For example: when purchasing any item in a shop, it will be wrapped in between one to five layers of plastic. Consider taking the the plastic wrappings off (when feasible) and leave it on the shop counter, while gently explaining to management that there's too much wrapping. The shop will have to dispose of the trash, and if/when that happens often enough, the shop will be compelled to inform the suppliers of the hassle, and so on up the line. It's possible, suppliers will then lessen their overly cumbersome packaging, and it will be win-win for everyone.

Similarly, there are lengthy discussions about power production (coal vs fossil vs renewables vs nuclear, etc) but rarely, in such discussions, is the issue of using less power discussed. There are bazillion ways to lessen electricity usage, but how often do we hear authorities or businesses or universities seriously broach that subject? Rarely.

'Garbology' brilliant you must be from the USA one of the worlds worst polluters but yet you care about some garbage on a beach, priceless. Sort your own backyard out first.

[waza]

^{Some friend just did a mountain trek in Borneo and said the trail was litered with garbage. They began picking it up but soon had more than they could carry.}

[maidu]

At some farang colleges and U's, there are accredited courses in 'Garbology'. The study of waste, and how best to deal with it. Are there any such courses in Thai colleges or U's? Doubtful.

Just as it's important to know about and maintain one's digestive tract (from mouth to anus), it's important to deal responsibly with trash. Just as important, is to produce less trash. For example: when purchasing any item in a shop, it will be wrapped in between one to five layers of plastic. Consider taking the the plastic wrappings off (when feasible) and leave it on the shop counter, while gently explaining to management that there's too much wrapping. The shop will have to dispose of the trash, and if/when that happens often enough, the shop will be compelled to inform the suppliers of the hassle, and so on up the line. It's possible, suppliers will then lessen their overly cumbersome packaging, and it will be win-win for everyone.

Similarly, there are lengthy discussions about power production (coal vs fossil vs renewables vs nuclear, etc) but rarely, in such discussions, is the issue of using less power discussed. There are bazillion ways to lessen electricity usage, but how often do we hear authorities or businesses or universities seriously broach that subject? Rarely.

'Garbology' brilliant you must be from the USA one of the worlds worst polluters but yet you care about some garbage on a beach, priceless. Sort your own backyard out first.

The US has trash problems, but not as bad as some would hope. Even if you go to a major city in the US, you can look up at night and see stars. Try that in any major Asian city. Similarly, you won't find any trash-strewn beaches in the US. If you know of any, please give a specific location. Farang grow up learning that tossing trash anyplace is wrong. Asians don't learn that. A US presidential candidate recently said, "there are no clear large rivers in Asia." He got in trouble for saying that, but it's true.

You don't have to be concerned about where your garbage and trash goes, but it does have an impact - and there are some folks who do the dirty work of dealing with such things. Just as nearly no one wants to concern themselves with landfills or septic systems, their impacts on everything else are important nevertheless.

Wouldn't it be grand, if all we had to concern ourselves with was beer and chicks and a monthly check in the mail. Indeed for most T.Visa readers, that's pretty much all that matters.

as John Lennon wrote in one of his songs, "living is easy with eyes closed."

[BusyBee123]

'Even if you go to a major city in the US, you can look up at night and see stars'

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2012/06/23/247634/los-angeles-warned-over-air-pollution/

clearly you wont be looking up at the stars in Los Angeles if this report from yesterday is to be believed!

http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/30/america-polluted-beaches-lifestyle-travel-beaches.html

Here are your finest beaches!

Lets not forget http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill talk about killing the ecology.

Asia has some serious issues i understand that but so does everywhere else so where do you start, I would say start at home but that's just me.

[maidu]

I submit that US standards are different than Asian standards, when it comes to pollution. More specifically: if an American in an American city looks up and sees a few stars at night, that person might expect and want cleaner air - as gauged by being able to look up and see many stars. In contrast, if a Thai person looks up at night and sees a light brown haze and no stars, they will accept it without a second thought. I've been in L.A. at night, and the night sky is considerably clearer than Bangkok's. It's a matter of peoples' standards. If you go a hundred miles from L.A., you can see night skies which are dazzlingly clear with millions of stars. There's nowhere in Asia like that, except high in the Himalayas, the perhaps the Gobi Desert, or far out at sea.

But this topic is about beaches, so I ask you: would a S.African or a European or an Australian or an American or a Chilean accept the level of trash on their beaches, as an Asian would accept?

I would say start at home but that's just me.

Yes, that's a good concept. My home is Chiang Rai. I do some things (in that regard) here, but granted, I could do more. However, I did consider traveling again down to Krabi beach area and endeavoring to pick up litter there. This post mentions that, but mostly is a suggestion to one or more folks, already based there, to get motivated to do more.

....and also wondering out loud, what can be done to stop fishermen from dumping so much trash in the sea (?) It's harmful and disgusting. It's ironic that the Cultural Minister mopes publicly about a bare breasted painter, yet doesn't make any mention of real desecrations to Thailand and its image.

[klongmuang]

Today the BISK (British International School of Krabi) made a beach clean up with the kids and collected 95 kg of trash.

[whatchamacallit]

'Even if you go to a major city in the US, you can look up at night and see stars'

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2012/06/23/247634/los-angeles-warned-over-air-pollution/

clearly you wont be looking up at the stars in Los Angeles if this report from yesterday is to be believed!

http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/30/america-polluted-beaches-lifestyle-travel-beaches.html

Here are your finest beaches!

Lets not forget http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill talk about killing the ecology.

Asia has some serious issues i understand that but so does everywhere else so where do you start, I would say start at home but that's just me.

What is this, America bashing time? Do you know that PressTV is an Iranian state own TV based in Tehran? Have you been to America? Have traveled extensively throughout the USA? Yes America has some issues that need to be addressed especially in the Carbon monoxide emission. Carbon emission is the biggest problem for Los Angeles which does have some very tough emission standards. Having lived in LA for over 15 years, i can tell you that air quality has improved greatly over the decades. I know most Americans care and very passionate about the environment they live in. You are cherry picking environmental problems in America. BTW, The gulf of Mexico oil spill was complements of BP oil which is a UK based. And the response to that disaster although was not perfect, was swift.

Edited June 30, 2012 by whatchamacallit

[maidu]

Today the BISK (British International School of Krabi) made a beach clean up with the kids and collected 95 kg of trash.

BISK get my vote. That's over 200 lbs. Waaaay to go!

It's also good for locals to see that happening. It may get them to think twice, next time they're about to toss litter around. After all, it's the locals (particularly fishermen) who toss trash, much more than visitors.

[simple1]

Today the BISK (British International School of Krabi) made a beach clean up with the kids and collected 95 kg of trash.

BISK get my vote. That's over 200 lbs. Waaaay to go!

It's also good for locals to see that happening. It may get them to think twice, next time they're about to toss litter around. After all, it's the locals (particularly fishermen) who toss trash, much more than visitors.

I used to live in a Moo Ban in Pattaya. At the back of the house was some empty land where the locals would throw their trash, even though there were garbage bins, cleaned by the Amphur every week, within a few metres. Nearly every day I would clear up the eye sore and the locals looked at me like I was crazy. Getting closer to the point I have seen school buses visiting the beach and the kids just throw their rubbish on the ground, in front of the teachers, and nothing is said. Even though Thais are quite nationalistic, as far as I am aware, there is not a national grass root education on waste disposal issues. So it's going to take generation/s before we will see any noticeable improvement.

EDIT: Even at my house when the family visits with the kids, the children drop their food waste etc on the ground. Again nothing is said by the parents and I have to request the children to pick up their staff & dispose it properly.

Edited July 3, 2012 by simple1

[agogohome]

Well intentioned, but utterly futile while the South West monsoon is blowing. Most of the trash you refer to has arrived from thousands of miles away

[simple1]

Well intentioned, but utterly futile while the South West monsoon is blowing. Most of the trash you refer to has arrived from thousands of miles away

So just leave the garbage on the beach for months?

[maidu]

Well intentioned, but utterly futile while the South West monsoon is blowing. Most of the trash you refer to has arrived from thousands of miles away.

Why 'utterly futile' - because more trash follows? With that attitude, a person would never sweep inside her house, knowing that more dirt would always come along.

Yes, the trash washing up on Thai shores comes from somewhere. That's part of the reason why earlier, I suggested Thailand institute its first U course in Garbology. Students could investigate and study such things. Is most of the the trash coming from India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, or Burma? My assumption is it's mostly coming from irresponsible fishermen.

On the other side of the coin, there's trash dumped by Thais - much of which probably washes up on shores in Malaysia, Cambodia and Vietnam. To me, these things are as important to study as the weather. As much as any other trait, people are phenomenal trash producers. It effects a whole lot more than others of our species.

[mancub]

Most,99% I'd say , of the trash I see on the beaches here in Ao Nang, on a daily basis- regardless of season, has come from a street vendor's cart or a 7-11 . Singha and Chang bottles don't originate in Bangladesh ........

In fact , the only time you'll see the beach clean, is after a good storm has washed the rubbish off somewhere else !

[taninthai]

^

exactly cleaned our beach today and most of the plastic bottles are from makro or ao nang orchid , ao nang orchid is a hotel and tour operator in ao nang so the comment about coming from Bangladesh is rubbish

I think it is disgusting Thais expect ferang to clean there beaches for them (dive shops/exchange programs) I am not here to clean up after thais

[maidu]

How to explain some stretches of beach, where broken brown bottles are found, many with sharp ends sticking up. Almost looks intentional. Portends a nasty surprise, particularly at high tides.

Personally, I think it's fishermen, more than any other one group, who toss trash irresponsibly in to the sea.

Where I reside, in northenmost Thailand, I saw 3 young men stroll in toward a big waterfall, each was carrying a brown bottle of beer. I called out to them, and they walked back to shore and put their bottles down safely. Good thing they weren't tuk tuk drivers, they might have come up to me and smashed the bottles on my head.

[sunspun]

As mentioned several times, the trash washes up because of the monsoons. If you visit the area in high season, the beaches are beautiful. A lot of what you see is not man-made garbage, but natural debris (wood, seaweed, dead marine life, etc) but it's hard to distinguish unless you are looking closely. The sand itself is different (more girtty, more rocks/shells) and the water is not very clear. The reason it is not done every days is because there is just too much of it, and just after you've cleaned everything, the tide comes up again and brings a fresh batch. Also, it's raining, windy, etc much of the time in this season. A lot of businesses do clean up (in front of their property) everyday, and I can tell you from personal experience that it takes a lot of effort and a long time, and after you got it what do you do with it? Pile it behind your shop because it's too wet to burn (we can leave the burning issue to another debate). The reason for the 'once a year' clean up is that it's the end of the season, so time to get rid of the trash once and for all. Tourism is going to pick up soon and the winds will stop bringing it in, so this is when the big clean up is going to make a difference.

That being said, I agree 100% that there is waaaaaay too much garbage in Thailand, and something really needs to be done. It is an issue Thai's are aware of, and many ARE trying to do something. They are starting to teach the importance of recycling in schools, and many villages are setting up recycling programs. I think education is the most important thing that can be done at this point. Once people realise the importance of keeping their country clean, and the damage that happens when you don't, they will start to change. Our countries were not so different 20 years ago.

[mancub]

As mentioned several times, the trash washes up because of the monsoons. If you visit the area in high season, the beaches are beautiful. A lot of what you see is not man-made garbage, but natural debris (wood, seaweed, dead marine life, etc) but it's hard to distinguish unless you are looking closely. The sand itself is different (more girtty, more rocks/shells) and the water is not very clear. The reason it is not done every days is because there is just too much of it, and just after you've cleaned everything, the tide comes up again and brings a fresh batch. Also, it's raining, windy, etc much of the time in this season. A lot of businesses do clean up (in front of their property) everyday, and I can tell you from personal experience that it takes a lot of effort and a long time, and after you got it what do you do with it? Pile it behind your shop because it's too wet to burn (we can leave the burning issue to another debate). The reason for the 'once a year' clean up is that it's the end of the season, so time to get rid of the trash once and for all. Tourism is going to pick up soon and the winds will stop bringing it in, so this is when the big clean up is going to make a difference.

That being said, I agree 100% that there is waaaaaay too much garbage in Thailand, and something really needs to be done. It is an issue Thai's are aware of, and many ARE trying to do something. They are starting to teach the importance of recycling in schools, and many villages are setting up recycling programs. I think education is the most important thing that can be done at this point. Once people realise the importance of keeping their country clean, and the damage that happens when you don't, they will start to change. Our countries were not so different 20 years ago.

Natural debris , driftwood , shell, sea-weed etc ,is not so much the issue here I feel . Most people would probably not define such natural material as"trash " and " garbage " . Plastic bags , polystyrene boxes ,coke cans and broken beer bottles litter the beach in Nopparat Thara as a direct result of the local peoples habits and total indifference to the environment . In the 10 years that I"ve lived here , I'm sad to say that I've only seen their attitude to this worsen .

I totally agree that education is incredibly important on the issue . How to educate someone not to be too lazy to dispose of their rubbish responsibly , ie walk 10 metres and put it in the bin ,rather than throw it down where they are , is the real challange !

Edited July 26, 2012 by mancub

[terryp]

just returned from a week in Ao Nang...now that place is a dump, the place looks like it has never been clean,

Do they EVER have street cleaners clean anywhere as there is trash, broken bottles,bits of trees & plastic everywhere i walked; footpaths are in a terrible state some very wide but covered in weeds and holes can be 2 feet long and almost a foot deep in places in fact the resort looks like a tip with many business for sale or empty units especially along the main beach road!!!

Needless to say I wont waste my time or money going back there it is the worst place in Thailand i have ever visited & dont get me started on the rip-off prices in bars/restaurants the place is a complete joke

[kimbathewhitelion]

Haven't really read too much here other than the opener & partial last, but having spent quite awhile in Krabi, I would say, no one. Did someone say street cleaners (lol) ). In Krabi Town at one point they actually took away the blue (trash) bins & then put em back at a later time, not knowing whether or not it was because everyone was throwing their trash in the street. It's Thailand. The high tourist areas are clean to Thai standards but not as clean as the more Thai occupied areas. However I wouldn't recommend anyone to diving in & around the Krabi Providence, the sewer (toilet) drainage is right outside Ao Nang. You'll see the worst of it (those greenish tracks in the water) about 10-15 mins outside the long tail docking area. They range for miles.

[taninthai]

It does make me laugh the people trying to defend the Thais saying it's just cause it's mon soon season.

What about all the rubbish in land there is one road in nopparate thara that has actually been shut and blocked at both ends this road was becoming a rubbish dump with huge piles appearing there I presume this is why the road has been shut several other roads the same that are just getting piles of rubbish dumped including the national park

[powerof1]

just returned from a week in Ao Nang...now that place is a dump, the place looks like it has never been clean,

Do they EVER have street cleaners clean anywhere as there is trash, broken bottles,bits of trees & plastic everywhere i walked; footpaths are in a terrible state some very wide but covered in weeds and holes can be 2 feet long and almost a foot deep in places in fact the resort looks like a tip with many business for sale or empty units especially along the main beach road!!!

Needless to say I wont waste my time or money going back there it is the worst place in Thailand i have ever visited & dont get me started on the rip-off prices in bars/restaurants the place is a complete joke

Oh well, not returning. One less piece of rubbish to worry about though.