Technology In Buddhism

[MaxwellsDemon]

I think another thing to note is that the Thai Theravada tradition is generally the most conservative and strict sect of Buddhism - I don't have as much an issue with a Mahayana or Tibetan monk going online. Not because I respect them any less, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[rockyysdt]

Welcome indeed fellow Phra!

I am glad you have ‘come out’ and do hope you stick around sharing ideas and knowledge. The band of foreign Monks here on TV is small but we are happy.

My Ajahn gave me a CD of his lectures in English then said ‘when you listen to them all you will understand’ that’s been my teaching (from my Ajahn at least) so far. The .Net and follow Monks on TV have helped me many times so for me it’s been invaluable in my development.

Get ready to get flamed by lap people for admitting you were given Cable TV as Hookedondharma says we are ‘expected’ to live in caves with only a candle!

As with everything it’s about intention n. A good resource can be used with bad intention does that make the resource bad or the person using it?

It’s now 2012 or should I say 2555 times have changed and the Internet has opened up so many resources IMO unless you have supreme understanding shouldn’t we be allowed to find the information that isn’t given to us?

The computer I have is my own (Oh dear attachment has raised its ugly head!) but I intend to leave it at the temple when I leave as a thank you gift for everything I have been taught.

IMO if TV and Internet was around when Lord Buddha was alive I am sure he would of loved it as he would have been able to teach so many more people then he was physically able to. Imagine having access to the estimated 1.6 BILLION Internet users out there that’s sure is a large audience.

It’s here to stay and as long as the teacher’s intention so what if the student needs to use the toilet. Now if it was the teacher on the toilet giving Dhamma talks I think we would have a problem!

Don't see much waffling in your post its all good.

Again welcome and we look forward to talking to you more.

Phra Para

What I say is go to for it.

Used correctly, the internet can unlock a wealth of resource, opportunity, and knowledge.

Things which might take others half a lifetime to uncover using traditional methods.

The heart of this subject was discussed on an earlier thread:

http://www.thaivisa....avada-buddhism/

"The personality, attitudes and the behaviour of the two great elders not only shaped the history of the Sasana at its formative years but also it continues to do so even at present. As we saw earlier all the traditional modes of monastic life of the Sangha such as, gamavasi and arannavasi (busy life of social service in the city vs solitary and meditative life in the forest), dhammakathika and pamsukulika (life of comfort and ease vs life of austerity characterized by wearing rag-robes and feeding on alms-food), and ganthadhura and vipassanadhura (life of erudition and learnedness vs life of contemplative practice) may well be traced back to Ananda and Maha Kassapa respectively.

As the earlier thread goes: The ideal disciple of the Buddha is one who strikes a balance between these two poles, a feat by no means looking easy.

If you spend your entire monastic life collecting knowledge and networking, you will miss the practice phase.

Once you have amassed your knowledge you must put this into practice during your solitary and meditative phase.

If you accept the enormous task of mastering the Four Tetrads (16 Steps) of Anapanasiti on your path you to Awakening, you will need to devote a considerable amount of your available life before death arrives.

A Theravadan Retreat Coordinator recently confided in me that, conservatively, 90% of Monks mismanage their time.

Edited June 28, 2012 by rockyysdt

[MrRealDeal]

After reading the posts what strikes me is that the OP , with all respect , is not really asking a question with an open mind but rather has his mind already made up and seems to be practicing his answers to convience others his position is correct .

The other thing that strikes me is the statement to the effect that as long as the intentions are good "it " must be good ...... I don't believe that is really the case , I think if the intentions are good AND the results are good would be a better statement.

You may very well find that the results become more trouble than it's worth , and if your mind is closed to that possibility already you might blind yourself to seeing it should that happen ..... It wouldn't be the first time the internet or technology has destroyed lives rather than make them better.

Is it worth a try ? Probabbly Is it necessary ? No Can people already find a plethora of information more than they care to read ? Yes

I wonder if learning and opportunity and knowledge are really the goal why temples don't already have vast libraries with the same information in paper form instead of what they have now ? Surely it's not because they are just now finding out about Encyclopedias?. So I wonder why the internet is imputus for wanting vast libraries on subjects not until now of enough concern to desire to obtain. I am not so sure it's because of the ease of obtaining it or the productive manner of distrubution. What I am sure of is I-pads , email , computers , televisions are a whole lot of fun, and most of the time is not spent watching the History chanell or reading wickipedia in the beginning middle or end for most people.

While I don't really know this part my guess is their is a reason vast libraries of irelevant information are not found in Temples other than that books cost to much or are hard to store. And I would also guess that reason would apply to the vast library of the internet as well.

Life isn't supposed to be quick and easy and things that come that way are discarded just as fast a lot of the time by a lot of people , would people pay more or less attention on a webcast or if they walked 5 miles up a hill to listen ?

I hear a lot more rationalisations and somewhat sensible but convoluted explanations to bring a tool that is also a toy into Temples than I would like to be hearing.

If you think computers with internet connections in a spot by the Temple will elevate the seriousness and diligence of people going there or the Monks themselves you would be wrong. It will decrease the time spent learning what is already there and increase the time spent on things until now deemed not relevant or important enough to be wasting time surfing the internet to find. I hear evey reason and possibility as to why it's good and frankly it sounds just like everyone else in the world who is trying to sell the idea to themselves or their parent that buying a shiney new toy is really an important tool instead.

I'm sorry,.... but you asked and I am answering: I find you to be fooling yourself about weather you are buying a cool new bunch of toys to play with, or weather you are buying a new set of tools to save the world.

I am Mr Real Deal and I might not be right, but I tell it like I see it, and I am giving you the same or more respect as folks who are not Monks, although it might come across as disrespectfull my intention is the opposite.

As an edit I will add and ask you this ...... Are you using your computer right this second to save the world , gain more knowledge or any of the other altruistic reasons I have heard or simply for entertainment causing a distraction to those other things ? ...... No answer required

Edited June 28, 2012 by MrRealDeal

[Several]

Welcome indeed fellow Phra!

I am glad you have ‘come out’ and do hope you stick around sharing ideas and knowledge. The band of foreign Monks here on TV is small but we are happy.

My Ajahn gave me a CD of his lectures in English then said ‘when you listen to them all you will understand’ that’s been my teaching (from my Ajahn at least) so far. The .Net and follow Monks on TV have helped me many times so for me it’s been invaluable in my development.

Get ready to get flamed by lap people for admitting you were given Cable TV as Hookedondharma says we are ‘expected’ to live in caves with only a candle!

As with everything it’s about intention n. A good resource can be used with bad intention does that make the resource bad or the person using it?

It’s now 2012 or should I say 2555 times have changed and the Internet has opened up so many resources IMO unless you have supreme understanding shouldn’t we be allowed to find the information that isn’t given to us?

The computer I have is my own (Oh dear attachment has raised its ugly head!) but I intend to leave it at the temple when I leave as a thank you gift for everything I have been taught.

IMO if TV and Internet was around when Lord Buddha was alive I am sure he would of loved it as he would have been able to teach so many more people then he was physically able to. Imagine having access to the estimated 1.6 BILLION Internet users out there that’s sure is a large audience.

It’s here to stay and as long as the teacher’s intention so what if the student needs to use the toilet. Now if it was the teacher on the toilet giving Dhamma talks I think we would have a problem!

Don't see much waffling in your post its all good.

Again welcome and we look forward to talking to you more.

Phra Para

What I say is go to for it.

Used correctly, the internet can unlock a wealth of resource, opportunity, and knowledge.

Things which might take others half a lifetime to uncover using traditional methods.

The heart of this subject was discussed on an earlier thread:

http://www.thaivisa....avada-buddhism/

"The personality, attitudes and the behaviour of the two great elders not only shaped the history of the Sasana at its formative years but also it continues to do so even at present. As we saw earlier all the traditional modes of monastic life of the Sangha such as, gamavasi and arannavasi (busy life of social service in the city vs solitary and meditative life in the forest), dhammakathika and pamsukulika (life of comfort and ease vs life of austerity characterized by wearing rag-robes and feeding on alms-food), and ganthadhura and vipassanadhura (life of erudition and learnedness vs life of contemplative practice) may well be traced back to Ananda and Maha Kassapa respectively.

As the earlier thread goes: The ideal disciple of the Buddha is one who strikes a balance between these two poles, a feat by no means looking easy.

If you spend your entire monastic life collecting knowledge and networking, you will miss the practice phase.

Once you have amassed your knowledge you must put this into practice during your solitary and meditative phase.

If you accept the enormous task of mastering the Four Tetrads (16 Steps) of Anapanasiti on your path you to Awakening, you will need to devote a considerable amount of your available life before death arrives.

A Theravadan Retreat Coordinator recently confided in me that, conservatively, 90% of Monks mismanage their time.

I agree completely brother. One discpline should guide and inform the other. For me it is avoidance of technology as a trap. That I can waste time on a computer and be one of the 90%. But I have always had that niggling voice in my mind saying 'you will die. Time is short. What are you going to do about it?'

Finding this forum is helping me to focus. We all know its like being a panda in a zoo when you are the only Phra Farang around, and having little discourse with other monks can be alienating. Good for practice, but we are brothers. The Sangha. We should support and advise each other. Its a great advantage for me to be able to read back through the posts and get replies to the ones I leave.

So its technology as the new medium, but the message is an old one. I bet some of the original Phra Farangs wish they could have had easy access to the words of simmilar seekers.

Thanks again brothers.

[Para]

@MrRealDeal – If you had of read my first post you would have seen my Abbot has requested Internet access to the new area of the temple I am the one that has been tasked with implementing his wishes. My reason for starting the discussion was to get others opinions on how/when or even if the Internet can or should be used within in modern day Buddhism.

You make some very valid and interesting points but in my case I am in a forest Temple in the middle of nowhere so access to books and other English learning material is very difficult. Also the topic in general actually went slightly off topic as I have been asked to find a solution that allows my teacher to broadcast his Dhamma talks to people outside of our Temple.

You make the comment ‘Can people already find a plethora of information more than they care to read? Yes‘ and I would have to agree but remember I am an ordained Monk in Thailand so I have very little money to purchase books and even if I did I would have to travel a fair way to the nearest major city. Can I order the same books online cheaper? Yes and that’s what I do.

Your screen name is mrrealdeal but in the real world for a non-Thai Monk living in Thailand the internet is pretty much the only resource we have to gain further Dhamma knowledge BUT I agree 100% it is so easily open to abuse.

Are you using your computer right this second to save the world, - I am replying to your comments so I would say I am being constructive as we are engaged in a discussion about Buddhism in the 21c

gain more knowledge – Yes, as soon as I am finished typing this

or any of the other altruistic reasons I have heard or simply for entertainment causing a distraction to those other things - No

‘ I am Mr Real Deal and I might not be right, but I tell it like I see it, and I am giving you the same or more respect as folks who are not Monks, although it might come across as disrespectfull my intention is the opposite.’

All you have done is give an opinion that differs with mine ego certainly doesn’t feel it necessary to try and convince you what my Abbot wants is correct. Your answers have opposed mine and others on this board but I find and feel no disrespect in them.

@Rockyystd – ‘The ideal disciple of the Buddha is one who strikes a balance between these two poles, a feat by no means looking easy.’ Ah the joys of the ‘middle way’!

I had to travel to BKK yesterday which meant 4 hours each way on a psycho driven minibus but it allowed me the time to read a book called ‘What did the Buddha teach?’ by Buddhadasa Bhikkhu. You made the following statement

‘Once you have amassed your knowledge you must put this into practice during your solitary and meditative phase.’

In the book he said something which really threw me. He quotes the Lord Buddha as saying ‘The Dhamma should be looked upon as a raft. It is to be used to get to where you need to go BUT once there not to be dragged along with you’

To me that compliments your statement am I right with my thinking?

@Several – ‘I bet some of the original Phra Farangs wish they could have had easy access to the words of simmilar seekers.’

I was a gym rat for many many years and took EVERY available supplement I could to get big. Back when I started over 20 years ago there was ZERO info available in the UK but thankfully I knew of a single book that a friend in the US tracked down and posted to me. Move that forward 10 years and I was a moderator on one of the largest bodybuilding forums in the world and would answer many questions every day from people seeking advice on correct usage. Would I of liked to have the currently available access to information on steroids when I started? Oh yes! Would I want to of been a Monk 20 years ago after seeing how easy it is to access information on all things Buddhist I would say no but with the following reservation. Now the internet makes life so much easier to source and share information but the same way kids nowadays don’t play outside they sit in front of their PlayStation’s inside all day or whatever I wonder what price the internet costs us?

Again thank you for ALL comments I believe it’s healthy to have somewhere that foreign Monks can at least discuss and learn.

With metta.

[Para]

Finding this forum is helping me to focus. We all know its like being a panda in a zoo when you are the only Phra Farang around, and having little discourse with other monks can be alienating. Good for practice, but we are brothers. The Sangha. We should support and advise each other. Its a great advantage for me to be able to read back through the posts and get replies to the ones I leave.

LOL! I have been called many things in my time but never a panda!

Would anyone here consider the Buddhism section of TV an extension of the traditional Sangha? I for one do.

[camerata]

Yes. I think this has been mentioned before, and it's one of the reasons we try extra hard to keep threads on-topic. There is no reason why a fellow TV member cannot be a kalayanamit.

EDIT// I mean we try to make the Buddhism forum a resource for those interested in Buddhism and where one can find like-minded friends and mentors.

Edited July 1, 2012 by camerata
Clarification.

[Several]

Me too. Provided it avoids going the way of the evangelical monotheists (to avoid specifying any other religion) who to me cheapen their faiths with some theatrical antics.

One monk here asked me if I thought that broadcasting 'Buddha songs' like the chri..er...carpentry enthusiasts would spread the Dhamma to a younger audience. Personally I disagree. Dhamma is not entertainment and its value should come from deepening ones appreciation of the experience of this life and ultimately liberation from our suffering.

Plus the media has its fill of questionble content. Offsetting that with Dhamma can only be a good thing.

[camerata]

Wat Dhammakaya has its own satellite channel. I don't see any problem with that if it's used for, say, guided meditation and sermons. After all, no one is forced to watch it.

Has anyone seen those automated chanting machines they have in some temples? You drop a coin in and get a recording of some Pali chant - I assume one of the parittas. A bit tacky, but even that makes sense in the Thai context, where the chants are believed to have protective power.

[Para]

Has anyone seen those automated chanting machines they have in some temples? You drop a coin in and get a recording of some Pali chant

Why did that make me think of the 'Zolov' (sp) machine from Tom Hanks movie 'Big'!

Today I have been learning from both buddhistchannel and buddhanet I guess if you are blessed with a good teacher who is able to answer all your questions then I can see why some people view Monks having access to the Internet as a learning aid redundant........

Following camerata its akin to a controversial film or TV show if you don't like it don't watch it. I have never understood people who watch a movie then complain how bad it was!

There are Monks on this board that need access to the internet for learning and to allow us to keep in touch with family and friends in our home countries. I guess its the 'Yom's' that feel we should all be recluses living in caves.......

[camerata]

I think it's mostly the yom farang who think monks should live as recluses. But that's a discussion for another topic.

[Para]

I think it's mostly the yom farang who think monks should live as recluses. But that's a discussion for another topic.

+1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[camerata]

Coincidentally, there was an article in the Post today about Ajahn Sumano, who has lived in a cave at Pak Chong for 30 years and uses a solar-powered laptop. He also has a website: http://www.next-life.com/

[Para]

Coincidentally, there was an article in the Post today about Ajahn Sumano, who has lived in a cave at Pak Chong for 30 years and uses a solar-powered laptop. He also has a website: http://www.next-life.com/

Wonder what the technology critics will have to say about that!

Technology is here regardless and is being used for the good of Buddhism. Period.

[harrry]

Coincidentally, there was an article in the Post today about Ajahn Sumano, who has lived in a cave at Pak Chong for 30 years and uses a solar-powered laptop. He also has a website: http://www.next-life.com/

Wonder what the technology critics will have to say about that!

Technology is here regardless and is being used for the good of Buddhism. Period.

And no one can question

?

[Para]

And no one can question

?

Everyone is free to question everything.

Ask away.

[hookedondhamma]

I think it's mostly the yom farang who think monks should live as recluses. But that's a discussion for another topic.

;-)

[rockyysdt]

Coincidentally, there was an article in the Post today about Ajahn Sumano, who has lived in a cave at Pak Chong for 30 years and uses a solar-powered laptop. He also has a website: http://www.next-life.com/

Wonder what the technology critics will have to say about that!

Technology is here regardless and is being used for the good of Buddhism. Period.

There is no reason why your early teacher/s can't be accessed online.

Once you're involved with (practicing) the third and fourth tetrads of anapanasiti, somehow I think contact with anyone other than your teacher might destroy the gossamer thin path you're treading on.

The warning in terms of the internet is that everyone must realize that, for most, access can be a very powerful addiction.

Initially it's fine, but at the business end of Awakening it's a trap.

Amassing knowledge is the minor part.

Putting it into practice is the key.

Edited July 10, 2012 by rockyysdt

[Para]

The warning in terms of the internet is that everyone must realize that, for most, access can be a very powerful addiction.

Initially it's fine, but at the business end of Awakening it's a trap.

Amassing knowledge is the minor part.

Putting it into practice is the key.

I totally agree the specific problem I have is my Abbot isn't often at the Temple so aside from the 3 or 4 English Buddhist books they had here I have been trying to find my own path.

[camerata]

I reckon a nice bit of kit for a phra farang would be a Kindle. The Touch can store 2,000 books and pdf files on it and a charge lasts up to 2 months. The only problem is there are still a lot of titles not available in ebook form.

[Para]

I reckon a nice bit of kit for a phra farang would be a Kindle. The Touch can store 2,000 books and pdf files on it and a charge lasts up to 2 months. The only problem is there are still a lot of titles not available in ebook form.

I have found a number of warez sites stating they have the PDF of the book I tried to d/l it as I have the s/ware to convert PDF to Kindle but the PDF wants Amazon access. I have never used a Kindle but I would assume its available electronically via Amazon?????

[camerata]

You mean the Kindle device itself? Yes, you can order directly from Amazon and they ship it by courier to Thailand in 2 days. B2S Central Chidlom has at least one model available now for the same price as buying from Amazon with shipping and customs duty included.

I don't have much experience with PDFs. I just copied a few things like mobile phone manuals direct from my PC to the Kindle.

[Para]

You mean the Kindle device itself? Yes, you can order directly from Amazon and they ship it by courier to Thailand in 2 days. B2S Central Chidlom has at least one model available now for the same price as buying from Amazon with shipping and customs duty included.

I don't have much experience with PDFs. I just copied a few things like mobile phone manuals direct from my PC to the Kindle.

No not the device its self the media you use on it.

Remember i have over 20 years of IT experience so can generally find a way around most things. I have a TON of Buddhist PDF's which I convert to Kindle.mobi format so she can read them on her Kindle I am waiting on a reply will PM you when I have an idea........

[rockyysdt]

The warning in terms of the internet is that everyone must realize that, for most, access can be a very powerful addiction.

Initially it's fine, but at the business end of Awakening it's a trap.

Amassing knowledge is the minor part.

Putting it into practice is the key.

I totally agree the specific problem I have is my Abbot isn't often at the Temple so aside from the 3 or 4 English Buddhist books they had here I have been trying to find my own path.

Get what you can from your current home, but work towards finding your next guide (teacher).

Can I ask:

"What type of guidance are you finding you need in your current stage?".

"Are you able to spend much time on regular sitting & mindfulness?"

A nugget of knowledge I was given from an English Monk of 25 years, practicing in Thailand was that a key to sitting meditation was the correct practice of the first tetrad of anapanasiti.

• Observe the short breath and what it does to you (stress, unease, rampant thought, lacking in mindfulness).
  
• Observe the long breath and what it does to you (slower pulse rate, relaxing, calming, settling the mind).
  
• Find your longest natural but comfortable breath - sweet spot, and develop it.
  

The secret:

• Follow the breath into the nostrils along your airways and down to your diaphragm, then back out along the airways and out of the nostrils paying particular attention to the point between the in and the out.
  

At first it will feel unnatural but persevere.

Until you get this right I would completely forget about meditation.

I would make this my goal, meditation will automatically follow.

What we call "I" is just a swinging door which moves when we inhale and exhale.

It's not your goal, but your reward will be Piti (a pleasant experience growing in intensity and exploding into a state of ecstacy), as you enter the first Jhana.

From here you can continue into the second tetrad of anapanasiti, culminating in the fourth tetrad which leads to Awakening.

To support my practice I would aim at keeping my body in as healthy a state as possible.

This may include, good food, plenty of water, some kind of acceptable cardio vascular workout, and stretching exercises (yoga is frowned upon but I find its one of the most rewarding exercises one can do and can be practiced alone out of sight).

Your lungs are your passport to Awakening.

Regular exercise leads to a heart resting rate and lung capacity supportive of a natural and comfortable long breath.

Edited July 10, 2012 by rockyysdt