First Time New Car Purchase & Bht100,000 Gov Rebate

[pistachios]

Thanks for the confirmations..

So that means the info in this post is inaccurate?

and this

"Secondly", while the regulations do not STATE that the rebate is only available to cash buyers, that is very much the EFFECT of the regulations. The rebate is paid to the registered owner/buyer after they have owned the car for one year. That is NOT POSSIBLE if the registered owner is a finance company. If you can persuade someone to lend you some money privately and you then use that money to buy a vehicle, registered in your name and not secured by the loan, that is a private arrangement between the two of you but I somehow doubt that your rebate will cover the rate of interest such a loan will cost you or your hospital bills should you fail to keep up the payments.

Yes, both incorrect.

Many people on finance have applied already, including my wife. And this seems to be no problem, with payment done after one year to the indicated bank account.

Good to know.

LeChaviravi seemed so sure of himself, I was almost convinced!

I wonder what pushes people to open their mouth with such assurance when they actually have no clue.

[Jayman]

Thanks for the confirmations..

So that means the info in this post is inaccurate?

and this

"Secondly", while the regulations do not STATE that the rebate is only available to cash buyers, that is very much the EFFECT of the regulations. The rebate is paid to the registered owner/buyer after they have owned the car for one year. That is NOT POSSIBLE if the registered owner is a finance company. If you can persuade someone to lend you some money privately and you then use that money to buy a vehicle, registered in your name and not secured by the loan, that is a private arrangement between the two of you but I somehow doubt that your rebate will cover the rate of interest such a loan will cost you or your hospital bills should you fail to keep up the payments.

Yes, both incorrect.

Many people on finance have applied already, including my wife. And this seems to be no problem, with payment done after one year to the indicated bank account.

Good to know.

LeChaviravi seemed so sure of himself, I was almost convinced!

I wonder what pushes people to open their mouth with such assurance when they actually have no clue.

I often times wonder the same thing.

[funcat]

Thanks for the confirmations..

So that means the info in this post is inaccurate?

and this

"Secondly", while the regulations do not STATE that the rebate is only available to cash buyers, that is very much the EFFECT of the regulations. The rebate is paid to the registered owner/buyer after they have owned the car for one year. That is NOT POSSIBLE if the registered owner is a finance company. If you can persuade someone to lend you some money privately and you then use that money to buy a vehicle, registered in your name and not secured by the loan, that is a private arrangement between the two of you but I somehow doubt that your rebate will cover the rate of interest such a loan will cost you or your hospital bills should you fail to keep up the payments.

Yes, both incorrect.

Many people on finance have applied already, including my wife. And this seems to be no problem, with payment done after one year to the indicated bank account.

Good to know.

LeChaviravi seemed so sure of himself, I was almost convinced!

I wonder what pushes people to open their mouth with such assurance when they actually have no clue.

...maybe he just applied a 'common sense' to the subject,that does not apply here...

[topt]

Just to say that my gf received a text yesterday to say the rebate had been paid into her bank account. She checked and found a payment for 71,253 baht.

This is one year and a couple of weeks from picking up the car.

[funcat]

Just to say that my gf received a text yesterday to say the rebate had been paid into her bank account. She checked and found a payment for 71,253 baht.

This is one year and a couple of weeks from picking up the car.

[Jayman]

Just to say that my gf received a text yesterday to say the rebate had been paid into her bank account. She checked and found a payment for 71,253 baht.

This is one year and a couple of weeks from picking up the car.

So she received the entire payment in 1 lump sum after 1 year and change from the purchase of the vehicle? My wife was at the government office just last week and they told her it's paid in 5 yearly payments. So much information being given that just doesn't jive.

Would you also clarify of the vehicle your gf got the rebate on was paid in full with cash or done via a finance company.

My wife was told that using a finance company was not an issue with getting the rebates.

Just to give more details.. my wife is looking to buy a swift and brought the booking receipt to the government office to inquire on the rebates. They told her she would get 15,000thb payments every year for 5 years.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Jayman

[LeCharivari]

I wonder what pushes people to open their mouth with such assurance when they actually have no clue.

I often times wonder the same thing.

I posted because I thought it may be useful to answer a question that meatboy had asked 12 days before that none of the usual experts here had attempted to answer.

My answer was based on information from the official details on the government website, which are very clear and confirm how (and to whom) refunds are made; the official information from the provincial DLT main office which confirm those details; from Thais I know who have investigated the rebate and realised that it is so much cheaper to get finance without the rebate that the difference in what they will pay in interest is considerably more than the rebate; and from a few Thais I know who make a disgraceful amount of money from lending money at outrageous rates of interest, even when it is secured, from those foolish or desperate enough to use their services who think they are getting a good deal.

I suggest, with all due respect, that you re-read what I wrote. I did NOT say that financing was not allowed under the scheme - I said that ""while the regulations do not STATE that the rebate is only available to cash buyers, that is very much the EFFECT of the regulations" as cash buyers are effectively the only ones who save money under the scheme.

It IS perfectly possible to buy a vehicle with a loan and to receive the rebate, as I explained, but reputable finance companies that charge a "normal" rate of interest will not do so as they know that if the borrower fails to keep up the payments and they re-possess the vehicle they (the finance company) will be left with a vehicle that they (the finance company) cannot re-sell until the rebate has been re-paid, leaving the finance company (not the government, as meatboy seemed to suggest) with the added problem of either getting the amount of the rebate back from the buyer (legally the rebate has to go to the registered owner, not to a third party) or paying back the rebate themselves.

As meatboy asked, "so what is stopping people buying a car on tick keeping it for a year,getting the rebate then letting it be repossessed,who's goner chase them for the refund back,"?

"What is stopping" them is the higher down-payment and higher rate of interest that a finance company will charge to allow for the extra risk they are taking and the extra guarantees that they will insist on from those who still want to take out such a loan, which outweigh the amount of the rebate - yes, it IS perfectly possible for some people to get finance AND a rebate but the additional interest and guarantees required mean that although they may save money in the short term they will pay for it heavily over the period of the loan; alternatively they may tell the buyer to put the finance company down as the recipient of the rebate, but that itself is technically illegal (and the buyer who is at fault, as it is the buyer whose name is on the rebate application).

Most dealerships won't tell you this, Jayman, and neither will most finance companies - it is against their interest to do so. All you have to do to find this out is to shop around for the best deal you can get on finance with the rebate, add up the total costs (and the extra security you are required to put up) and compare it to finance with the rebate. That is what most potential buyers have done, which is why so few have applied for both finance and a rebate. Once you have done so it will be clear why "while the regulations do not STATE that the rebate is only available to cash buyers, that is very much the EFFECT of the regulations" - some buyers getting a rebate and finance will still be convinced they are getting a good deal, that it is all legal, and go ahead anyway (and a very, very few may be), which is why I added the rider "very much" rather than making it an absolute and later added "I somehow doubt that your rebate will cover the rate of interest such a loan will cost you or your hospital bills should you fail to keep up the payments" in case there was any remaining confusion.

[LeCharivari]

So she received the entire payment in 1 lump sum after 1 year and change from the purchase of the vehicle? My wife was at the government office just last week and they told her it's paid in 5 yearly payments. So much information being given that just doesn't jive.

That isn't on the government information I have read so far, but if correct and a result of her using a finance company it could be a change in answer to a number of complaints that have been made that the effect (EFFECT!) of the legislation was to make the rebate only worthwhile for cash buyers (see above). These complaints were made at some length in the Thai press when the scheme was first detailed.

[Jayman]

LeCharivari

Thank you for you detailed explanation. What you are saying makes much more sense now that you have further explained it. I will make sure that my wife does further home work as well as I will go over all the numbers they provide her to see if the rebate makes sense or as you said, the rates/deposit will be increased to cover the added risk the finance company is taking on. Or perhaps they are making the payments now on a yearly basis rather than lump sum to alleviate some of the risk the finance companies would be taking.

[topt]

Just to say that my gf received a text yesterday to say the rebate had been paid into her bank account. She checked and found a payment for 71,253 baht.

This is one year and a couple of weeks from picking up the car.

My wife was told that using a finance comp

So she received the entire payment in 1 lump sum after 1 year and change from the purchase of the vehicle? My wife was at the government office just last week and they told her it's paid in 5 yearly payments. So much information being given that just doesn't jive.

Would you also clarify of the vehicle your gf got the rebate on was paid in full with cash or done via a finance company.

any was not an issue with getting the rebates.

4 door pick up (Triton Plus) paid in cash - sorry have no idea re finance as did not even look at it.

So she received the entire payment in 1 lump sum after 1 year and change from the purchase of the vehicle? My wife was at the government office just last week and they told her it's paid in 5 yearly payments. So much information being given that just doesn't jive.

That isn't on the government information I have read so far, but if correct and a result of her using a finance company it could be a change in answer to a number of complaints that have been made that the effect (EFFECT!) of the legislation was to make the rebate only worthwhile for cash buyers (see above). These complaints were made at some length in the Thai press when the scheme was first detailed.

No paid in cash sorry if I confused the issue

[stevenl]

No paid in cash sorry if I confused the issue

No worries, there is only 1 person here confusing the issue with his interpretations of a rule.

[funcat]

I've never heard about different rates,or special securities because somebody is applying for the rebate...

[stevenl]

I've never heard about different rates,or special securities because somebody is applying for the rebate...

Neither have I. And this would be all over the internet now, since the rebate is already in effect for more than a year.

[pistachios]

How would you get the quote with the finance company without the rebate surcharge added? Asking the wife to lie and to tell them it will not be her first vehicle purchase?

[stevenl]

How would you get the quote with the finance company without the rebate surcharge added? Asking the wife to lie and to tell them it will not be her first vehicle purchase?

Simply do the math.

The dealers have papers with prices on them, and finance is one of the prices there.

[stevenl]

In addition:

just remembered, can tell you from experience the rate is the same. During the buying process we changed the name the car would be put in, and it changed from without rebate to with rebate.

Finance (monthly payment and end date) stayed the same.

[LeCharivari]

... During the buying process we changed the name the car would be put in, and it changed from without rebate to with rebate. ...

And the full rebate's being credited direct to your wife's account after a year?

[stevenl]

... During the buying process we changed the name the car would be put in, and it changed from without rebate to with rebate. ...

And the full rebate's being credited direct to your wife's account after a year?

Yes, according to the office that handles the applications.

Many people have gone through this process since it was implemented over a year ago. So yes can trust that it works as indicated, which means: buy now, receive after 1 year the rebate on bank account. There is no distinction made between finance/cash buying.

[LeCharivari]

.... There is no distinction made between finance/cash buying. ....

Not by the dealers!

... and I'm not "interpreting a rule", as my interpretation is the same as yours - I'm looking at why this hasn't been anywhere near the popular option it appears to be.

... "All over the internet?" In English? The scheme is for Thais, and these points were raised a year ago when the scheme was first introduced. Its old news now (unless there's a change in the scheme, which it appears there now may have been).

The issue is as "confused" amongst those administering it as those questioning it, but most of those issues have been resolved now. I checked the details a while ago with a cousin-in-law who works at the Ford/Mazda factory and who then wanted to buy a 4 door Ranger through the "Ford Friends" scheme and he was given a wide selection of answers depending on which particular official he asked. First he was told that as the Ranger 4 door was taxed as a car not a Pick-up, and over 1600cc, the vehicle wasn't eligible - obviously wrong. He then had three alternatives of his eligibility: take the Ford discount (100,000 baht) OR the rebate; take the Ford discount AND a rebate; take the Ford discount and a REDUCED rebate. Its now pretty clear (and agreed at the office!) that its one or the other - discount or rebate - as the regs state that the rebate is based on the full (list) purchase price being paid.

If all you want to do is take what one dealer offers you without looking into the alternatives that's up to you but if you take the time to compare available discounts, finance, etc, you'll see that the scheme is far from as good a deal as those who don't do their homework think it is and in most cases those who buy on finance and apply for a rebate are losing as much or more than they gain and saddling themselves with the 5 year no-sale condition. If you don't want to do the homework and you accept what a dealer and finance tell you at face value, fine.

If you're happy paying the full price for the car, no discounts, taking the interest rate offered by the dealer, etc, and you think you're getting a good deal and that's what you want to tell everyone, then great. Pat yourself on the back and give yourself a big round of applause.

If you want to actually see what you're "saving" then do some homework, shop around for discounts and interest rates, factor in the cost of being saddled with a car you can't sell for 5 years without paying back the rebate that cost you your discount, plus minor costs like selling a car that's literally labelled "first-time Thai owner/driver" rather than "one careful farang owner", etc. If you know someone who works a a dealer (and I mean "know" socially rather than by name) ask them how many of those applying for a rebate and finance are Thais accompanied by their oh-so-clever farang husbands who've seen a bargain and why so few Thais have done the same that the scheme has been under used and has been extended to take up the allocated budget. THEN "do the math".

[stevenl]

.... There is no distinction made between finance/cash buying. ....

Not by the dealers!

... and I'm not "interpreting a rule", as my interpretation is the same as yours - I'm looking at why this hasn't been anywhere near the popular option it appears to be.

... "All over the internet?" In English? The scheme is for Thais, and these points were raised a year ago when the scheme was first introduced. Its old news now (unless there's a change in the scheme, which it appears there now may have been).

The issue is as "confused" amongst those administering it as those questioning it, but most of those issues have been resolved now. I checked the details a while ago with a cousin-in-law who works at the Ford/Mazda factory and who then wanted to buy a 4 door Ranger through the "Ford Friends" scheme and he was given a wide selection of answers depending on which particular official he asked. First he was told that as the Ranger 4 door was taxed as a car not a Pick-up, and over 1600cc, the vehicle wasn't eligible - obviously wrong. He then had three alternatives of his eligibility: take the Ford discount (100,000 baht) OR the rebate; take the Ford discount AND a rebate; take the Ford discount and a REDUCED rebate. Its now pretty clear (and agreed at the office!) that its one or the other - discount or rebate - as the regs state that the rebate is based on the full (list) purchase price being paid.

If all you want to do is take what one dealer offers you without looking into the alternatives that's up to you but if you take the time to compare available discounts, finance, etc, you'll see that the scheme is far from as good a deal as those who don't do their homework think it is and in most cases those who buy on finance and apply for a rebate are losing as much or more than they gain and saddling themselves with the 5 year no-sale condition. If you don't want to do the homework and you accept what a dealer and finance tell you at face value, fine.

If you're happy paying the full price for the car, no discounts, taking the interest rate offered by the dealer, etc, and you think you're getting a good deal and that's what you want to tell everyone, then great. Pat yourself on the back and give yourself a big round of applause.

If you want to actually see what you're "saving" then do some homework, shop around for discounts and interest rates, factor in the cost of being saddled with a car you can't sell for 5 years without paying back the rebate that cost you your discount, plus minor costs like selling a car that's literally labelled "first-time Thai owner/driver" rather than "one careful farang owner", etc. If you know someone who works a a dealer (and I mean "know" socially rather than by name) ask them how many of those applying for a rebate and finance are Thais accompanied by their oh-so-clever farang husbands who've seen a bargain and why so few Thais have done the same that the scheme has been under used and has been extended to take up the allocated budget. THEN "do the math".

Let's keep discounts for employees out of it, really not of interest for most people, it only confuses the issue.

All over the internet, yes. Unless you think that none of the TV readers here will ever read/hear about it if there were issues with the payments under finance. You're pretending the Thais are living in a world of their own and are communicating between themselves without anyone else hearing about it. Sorry, the world does not work that way anymore.

The rebate is meant to support car sales. So you confuse the issue by pretending that people who are buying on finance now have the choice to also buy cash, but that is hardly ever the case. Again, interest rates, deals with dealers etc. are the same, whether rebate yes or no. Has nothing at all to do with shopping around.

Prices of rebated cars in 5 years less than non rebated cars? Maybe, maybe not. But in my guess not by the rebate amount, if any.

[pistachios]

Yeah, I seriously doubt there is such a difference.

Lets see for example a suzuki swift GLX at 559,000

The rebate for this car is 79,000

Down payment 25%, dealers rate for 48 month finance at 2,75% => cost of loan 46,117

Let's say you can negociate a better rate because you are not using the first care rebate scheme, at 2%

The cost of loan would be down to 33,540. That's only 12,577 difference.

[Jayman]

I really think that there have been changes in the program and it's now being paid out yearly over 5 years rather than a lump sum after the 1st year. Perhaps going fwd others will be able to confirm this.

[stevenl]

I really think that there have been changes in the program and it's now being paid out yearly over 5 years rather than a lump sum after the 1st year. Perhaps going fwd others will be able to confirm this.

Would make sense based on finance and the duration of the no sale clause.

Depending on when this was implemented we could see this in one year from date of implementation, my wife was told (received car in July) will be 1 lump sum.

[funcat]

From my understanding,the rebate has nothing to do with the original price of the car...the Government is just simply waving the excise tax on particular car (which is different on different cars and models)...

The finance company is just doing their thing and the rate is pretty much set...unless you got some "special" abilities to negotiate that...Why is it like this,because it is a "sellers market" and they dictate their terms...like it,or leave it...

...and hope that they will keep their part of the deal and pay up the money after 1 year as promised...if they want to change this,it may apply to the newer buyer,not to those who already have signed the deal...

[LeCharivari]

You're pretending the Thais are living in a world of their own .....So you confuse the issue by pretending that people who are buying on finance ..... Again, interest rates, deals with dealers etc. are the same, whether rebate yes or no. Has nothing at all to do with shopping around.

I'm not "pretending" anything - simply pointing out some of the pitfalls of the scheme which has not been taken up by Thais in anything like the planned/expected numbers but has been taken up by a disproportionate number of farangs with Thai wives/in-laws who have never owned a car before. There's nothing new here, as all this was discussed when the scheme was first proposed and again when it was implemented.

The idea that there's no point in shopping around and that all dealers offer the same rates, etc, is so naive I am genuinely surprised to read it even here. Dealers may not offer better deals, but that certainly doesn't mean that they aren't available even though it is currently a buyers market and one where dealers selling cars with the rebate get a higher commission (no discounts) and, if bought on finance from them, a commission from the finance company as well.

[LeCharivari]

From my understanding,the rebate has nothing to do with the original price of the car......

...and hope that they will keep their part of the deal and pay up the money after 1 year as promised..

Your understanding is incorrect. The rebates are based on the published set retail price of each eligible model, not on the individual price paid by each individual buyer allowing for discounts, free options, etc. That has always been one of the drawbacks of the scheme (for some people!).

The rebate is paid direct to the buyer, not through any third party if purchased on finance.

[stevenl]

The idea that there's no point in shopping around and that all dealers offer the same rates, etc, is so naive I am genuinely surprised to read it even here.

Don't distord my words. What I said was: the rates and deals will be same whether on rebate yes or no. The rebate has nothing, really nothing, to do with the sales process.

Also, your quote is ridiculous, you're picking out parts of sentences leaving nothing of the original contents.

[stevenl]

The rebate is paid direct to the buyer, not through any third party if purchased on finance.

From the same poster " The rebate is paid to the registered owner/buyer after they have owned the car for one year. That is NOT POSSIBLE if the registered owner is a finance company."

[funcat]

I think we're going in circles here...where is the "ignore" button ?

[OZEMADE]

The rebate is paid direct to the buyer, not through any third party if purchased on finance.

From the same poster " The rebate is paid to the registered owner/buyer after they have owned the car for one year. That is NOT POSSIBLE if the registered owner is a finance company."

How would the Finance company be the registered owner of the vehicle. They are giving you the finance to purchase the vehicle, which would then be registered in your name you being the purchaser.

Am I missing something here.