Going Home

[tombkk]

Off-topic post and reply have been removed from sight.

[Murgatroyd]

Well I arrived back in the UK last Friday. It was fairly traumatic parting from my beloved wife and stepdaughter, we were all in tears at the airport I'm afraid.

I've been staying at my sister's place in Scotland and preparing to send out a blizzard of job applications.

As I said, I work in the security industry and it's security work that I'm after. It's slightly more complicated than normal work as I need a SIA (Security Industry Authority) licence. I used to hold one but it has now expired.

To Obtain this licence I need to attend a training course and pass their exam, I need a UK police record check, and to present several forms of ID. No Problem:

I've applied for the UK criminal record check, I've booked my re-training course, (and booked a hotel close to the course venue, an expensive business!).

I've also researched Security companies in Edinburgh and started to phone round them to see if any of them are currently recruiting, and I've written and printed out multiple copies of my CV and references, I was all set to head down to Edinburgh next week to research accommodation.

Then came the new nightmare...

I checked the SIA website:

It turns out that because I have lived in Thailand for over six months I also need to present a Royal Thai Police criminal record check when applying for my SIA licence.

This is a real disaster. If I had known this before I left Thailand I could easily have obtained one before I flew back to the UK. Now I'm stuck.

I have read that it's possible, albeit complicated and expensive, to obtain a Thai Criminal Record Check from the Thai police whilst resident in the UK... I was directed to the Thai Consulate site in Hull to download the relevant documentation... I looked, no such download is available, only one telling you how to get the UK police record check to support your visa application.

I'm now at my wits end, for without a Thai criminal record check I can't get my SIA Licence. Without my SIA licence I cant get a job. Without a job I will never be able to save up to get back to Thailand.

Plan B of course is to bite the bullet, get the cheapest return flight back to Thailand, apply for the criminal record check, and spend a few more days with my family, which I'd love to do but It's going to cost money that I can ill afford.

Any suggestions? (Preferably clean and biologically possible ones!).

[notmyself]

Nightmare. I'm sure some wise member will have the answer though.

[JSixpack]

I was directed to the Thai Consulate site in Hull to download the relevant documentation... I looked, no such download is available, only one telling you how to get the UK police record check to support your visa application.

I'm now at my wits end

Good god, man! Just telephone the Consulate and ask them to get the documents and mail them to you via the Royal Mail.

Sorted. Next.

Edited July 20, 2012 by JSixpack

[meatballs]

I think I'd rather be eating cooked rice daily and living in a $50 a month hole in Cambodia than return home.

[meatballs]

It's also VERY hard to overcome 1st world retirement and money devaluation vs 3rd world inflation and stable currency. Over the last 20 years on a fixed retirement you would have lost 50 percent of your buying power, I see the exact same monetary policys that made it happen for the last 20 years still going on for the next 20.

So scary. It makes it very difficult to plan and budget for the future when one's income comes from one's home country. Like they all say, "I remember 10 years ago when ....." I think we all secretly wish for those days to come back, however a crash in Thailand or ASEAN does not sound fun at all.

So what can we do? Just try to save up a load of money and then some? Spend smarter (a.k.a. be a cheap-o)? Even Murgatroyd had it all planned out, his plan still backfired. So scary.

I think you raise a very good point, that comes up in many threads.

Retired westerners who move to developing countries to live more comfortably than back home (on a limited pension) should be prepared to relocate from time-to-time to less developed countries.

Otherwise, they must accept that the spending power of their money will decline over time.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

Correct, for ex. spending power in Laos has dropped more than 40% since 2008 for a European carrying Euros...big difference unless able to generate local currency!To Murgatroyd,I look forward to reading updates on your situation and changes you eventually make on the way.SokhDee!

I knew this would happen. We're going to see more Euro jumpers soon enough. The Euro had to decline from 53 baht and now it will probably hit 30 by the time it is all over with.

[edwinclapham]

edited apologies

Edited July 21, 2012 by edwinclapham

[MrRealDeal]

As far as what you can do financially ...... It's really all about knowing what can happen and being realistic. Everyone should know that on a fixed income tied to western inflation you will be going backwards so the longer you plan on staying alive or being in the East the more you need or the less you should spend ....... My advice would be to see if you can enjoy yourself with half of your income for every 15 years you plan on being alive and see if you have any money left over , if you have 3000 and can't live on 1500 you will be in trouble in 30 years or less. If you spend half of your income for 15 years you can ride out the next 15 spending it all and have some left over. After that you may be dipping into savings.

If however you chose to spend it all from the beginning after 10 years the entire rest of your life will be a slow grind backwards to the poorhouse. Relying on unrealistc returns on investments will kill ya in the end.

It's really personal preference some people want to have a good time when they are younger and don't care about later others don't .... but the important thing is just to know what you are headed for so you make the choice realisticly.

Eventually bonds and appropriate investments for older people will get back to better rates, but even now their are reasonably secure bonds that are enough , Brasil's prime rate is 8 percent for example and gov and corporate bonds pay more than Thai inflation. So it's all about good planning for the worst and hopeing for the best, but not rushing out and spending you internet stock or housing bubble profits thinking they will last forever.

It's perfectly possible and more sensible to begin in the crappy 5000 bht place and move yourself up over the years as rates of return improve and your savings adds up .... at least to me .... I would rather live poor when I am young than when I am old. It's hard to live poor when your not poor but in the end it seems a lot easier to live well when im old than live poor when I'm old.

My rule of thumb is my investments count for half of what my monthly statement says so when the crash comes it doesn't effect my prior plans it just a temporary glitch in the statements. If you can get by on half of what you have you will be fine for a long long time even with market crashes or hyperinflation thats not crazy conspiricy theory high.

[jacktrip]

Yes... after a while it became obvious that the financial situation wasn't going to improve, only deteriorate further. I stuck it out as long as possible but I'd be a fool to stick my head in the sand and adopt a Mr Micawber like attitude. I'm keenly aware that I'm not the only person in this position... indeed I posted to that effect several years ago.

I bought my wife a decent computer last Christmas and will leave it set up so that we can communicate easily and effectively. It has a webcam, as does mine.

I'd like to thank everyone for their fair and polite responses on this thread. It is greatly encouraging to find so much sympathy and such a lack of derision.

Thanks Rsquared... Yes, my advice would be to shoulder the expense of comprehensive medical insurance for yourself and your family. I didn't and regretted it. Apart from that it's important to remember that if a person intends to live like a westerner in Thailand, drinking a familiar beer, using the air con in the evening and at night and eating western style food your living expenses won't be nearly as low as you think, and even if you don't play around with the girls a night out for a beer or several once a week or so will also add considerably to your living costs. Family and parenting adds greatly to these expenses with school fees, uniforms, school buses, extra lessons and even musical instruments to factor in!

Also don't forget things like dental care, vet's costs if you get a pet, Taxis everywhere if you don't drive and vehicle expenses if you do... finally don't forget the cost of home and contents insurance if you don't want to get home to a ransacked home.

Did you move to Thailand expecting to reduce living expenses when you saw finances getting shaky, and were unable to lower your western lifestyle, or were you living the same lifestyle and dam_n the bullets?

Many people I know cannot save money in Thailand because they are either unwilling to forgo usual comforts, or live more humbly then they are used to, or hidden vices consume them.

Have you considered neighboring countries Cambodia, Philippines which may not have the retirement income requirement? If you can reduce expenses by half you add another 5 years to what you have, theoretically Cut in half again you could have 15 years. How old are you?

Edited July 21, 2012 by jacktrip

[MrRealDeal]

Most people can't save money no matter where they live, most people spend more time paying back loans than standing in line to deposit savings.

[jackr]

Murgatroyd: is this the form you're after, point C (attached):?

C) The following is the procedure for someone who has been in Thailand in the past but is not presently in Thailand and who needs to apply for a Thai Police Clearance Certificate to meet the requirements of an authority in the UK.

Second link down under 'Other Downloads' on the Hull site:

300 quid and 3 weeks according to some. Could be worth a cheap flight.

Few security jobs on this site in Edinburgh area.

All the best. ;-)

Edited July 21, 2012 by jackr

[jackr]

Thank you for doing the sensible thing and going home to get some money together. Thank you for not becoming another example of Farang refuse that litter Thailand, people who should have gone home much earlier when the wheels fell off their wagon.

While I may agree to an extent on some of the undesirables that wash up here, I sincerely hope you are not Thai. If so, take a look around.

To some of the others on here spouting your tripe when a bloke is clearly struggling, wind your **** heads in, will you not! Letitbe, do you really think anyone on here gives a tinker's toss what you spend or how much you have to pay a female to be with you? pffftt.

[TommoPhysicist]

As far as what you can do financially ...... It's really all about knowing what can happen and being realistic. Everyone should know that on a fixed income tied to western inflation you will be going backwards so the longer you plan on staying alive or being in the East the more you need or the less you should spend ....... My advice would be to see if you can enjoy yourself with half of your income for every 15 years you plan on being alive and see if you have any money left over , if you have 3000 and can't live on 1500 you will be in trouble in 30 years or less. If you spend half of your income for 15 years you can ride out the next 15 spending it all and have some left over. After that you may be dipping into savings.

Realistically

In 30 years 95% of the posters on TV will be dead.

I would be happy to live another 15 years, and won't be planning for a longer stay.

Edited July 21, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[Murgatroyd]

Hello jackr,

That is indeed the form, and I found it after I had last posted. However I don't have access to all the documentation that I would need to send with the paperwork package to Hull. I note that the chap who posted about his experience in getting this sorted from the UK via Hull did so in 2007, before the financial crisis, and when the GBP was fetching 70 Baht. I think that the expenses involved in doing this would be considerably higher now.

Therefor I am flying back to Thailand, and will arrive Tuesday morning to get this sorted out... I cannot work in the security industry in the UK until I do. And I get to see my wife and stepdaughter again as a bonus!

Thanks to all the other people who have posted on this thread. Much appreciated.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Murgatroyd

[GreenSnapper]

As far as what you can do financially ...... It's really all about knowing what can happen and being realistic. Everyone should know that on a fixed income tied to western inflation you will be going backwards so the longer you plan on staying alive or being in the East the more you need or the less you should spend ....... My advice would be to see if you can enjoy yourself with half of your income for every 15 years you plan on being alive and see if you have any money left over , if you have 3000 and can't live on 1500 you will be in trouble in 30 years or less. If you spend half of your income for 15 years you can ride out the next 15 spending it all and have some left over. After that you may be dipping into savings.

Realistically

In 30 years 95% of the posters on TV will be dead.

I would be happy to live another 15 years, and won't be planning for a longer stay.

And what will you do if you're still there 15 years later?

Jump?

If you are 60 today, you can expect to become 85. Or more, if you do a bit for your health.

So plan accordingly.

[Murgatroyd]

Well I'm back in Thailand, a lot sooner than I'd figured I would be. I now have ten days to accomplish the paper chase involved in obtaining my Thai Police criminal record check.

Before I submit my application to the Royal Thai Police I have to get 6 pages of my passport copied and certified (?) and obtain a document that proves that I have been resident in Thailand since 08/04/2008. Whilst the stamps in my Passport will clearly show this I suspect that they alone will not suffice.

This I suspect will involve a lot of hassle. It's a real pain not to have access to my scanner/ photocopier/ printer which is in a box somewhere between Thailand and the UK.

Is there an "Office Center" anywhere in Bangkok where I can take my lap top and get something printed from it?

Any advice on how and where to obtain the "Document that proves residence" and the "Certified" copies of my passport would be very greatly appreciated.

It's wonderful to see my wife and stepdaughter again, and to have the chance of spending a few more days with them.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Murgatroyd

[TommoPhysicist]

Good luck OP. Props for making what must have been a difficult decision.

I also feel for you re the advice given to get your family over to the UK to join you: from 9th July you'll need an annual income of £22,400 net to settle your wife and one child in the UK.

Can we just correct that to ........... and one non-British child in the UK.

[GreenSnapper]

Murga, scanning, printing can be done at most internet cafes. Just bring a USB stick to transport your data.

But be careful when you attach the stick to your laptop again. Most probably it will have some virus.

[Rsquared]

Thanks for keeping us updated Murgatroyd.

I know the next 10 days for you will go too quickly. Sorry I cannot offer any advice wrt all the paperwork you need to obtain whilst here, but I wish you the best in getting everything you need so that you can regain your licence back in UK.

Once again good luck with getting back on your feet financially and get back here permanently with your family ASAP.

Cheers.

[simon43]

Murgatroyd, last time I obtained a police criminal clearance certficate from the police HQ in BKK (near Siam Square), I did not need certified documents, and all they asked for in the office was uncertified copies of my passport and then they took my fingerprints.

If you are in BKK right now, I suggest you pop down to the police office HQ and ask exactly what documents they need from you - it is possible that you can save some time and effort if they only ask for a 'subset' of the full list of documents

Simon

[JSixpack]

Murgatroyd, last time I obtained a police criminal clearance certficate from the police HQ in BKK (near Siam Square), I did not need certified documents, and all they asked for in the office was uncertified copies of my passport and then they took my fingerprints.

If you are in BKK right now, I suggest you pop down to the police office HQ and ask exactly what documents they need from you - it is possible that you can save some time and effort if they only ask for a 'subset' of the full list of documents

Simon

I don't see why they'd need "certified copies" as they can see for themselves that the copies are true. You might also ask the police to make the copies themselves, for a fee.

[bangkockney]

Good luck OP. Props for making what must have been a difficult decision.

I also feel for you re the advice given to get your family over to the UK to join you: from 9th July you'll need an annual income of £22,400 net to settle your wife and one child in the UK.

Can we just correct that to ........... and one non-British child in the UK.

I would have thought it obvious that a British citizen doesn't need a visa, does not therefore need to be sponsored and doesn't increase the maintenace requirement.

My post is directed at the OP who has a stepdaughter and therefore in the context of this thread my post is pretty clear.

[Murgatroyd]

This morning I sorted out the Royal Thai Police Criminal record check, and it was a whole lot easier than I thought it was going to be.

My main worry was the issue of certifying the photocopies of my Passport... I had read some horror stories of this process having to be done at my embassy, or at a Lawyer's office and costing anything between 1500 and 2500 Baht per page!

As it turned out all I had to supply were the photocopies from the shop behind the complex, and the helpful "Information" chap stamped them with a rubber stamp and asked me to sign them... Job done at zero expense!

The other thing I was worried about was the theoretical requirement for a document that proved my Thai residency... Where or what that should be I didn't know, but I envisaged a paper chase that took in the Immigration office and the local Amphur at the very least.

It turned out that my fears were groundless and no such document was asked for... Huge sigh of relief!

Nor did they want the two passport sized photos that I brought along. After the fingerprinting part of the process I was directed to a rear room where my photo was taken digitally and the appropriate paperwork added to it.

The only messy part of the process was getting fingerprinted... it's always messy, and I'll be getting the ink off over the next few days...

Then it was just a matter of the young lady checking that all the paperwork was in order and her handing me a receipt which told me that it would be ready on the 14th of August. I have to leave before then but I was able to authorise my wife to pick it up for me. She will send this to me by recorded delivery... Phew, Sorted!

So I now have ten days to enjoy the company of my wife and stepdaughter, and our dog who was very pleased to see me again.

When asked what she'd most like to do while I am here in Thailand my stepdaughter said "Pattaya - Wynam"... which is to say that she wants to go to our usual hotel in Pattaya where she likes the pool. So I'm now going to book the weekend there... All done and booked. As a bonus the dog can stay at her favorite place, (apart from home), and get washed pampered and get a much needed clipping while we're away.

I love it when a plan comes together!

[Murgatroyd]

PS, As I saved all the money that I thought I was going to have to pay to get my passport copies "Certified" I bought my wife a new printer/scanner/photocopier at pantip plaza... Now she can do photocopies for the neighbors and print stuff out for her daughter. My old printer is in a box somewhere between Thailand and the UK (I hope )

[GreenSnapper]

Great!

For those who consider to move to Malaysia (MM2H) - there is also a requirement to deliver a police record for the visa. Good to know how it works then.

Murga, when your wife sends you the papers, let her send it via EMS. It is more costly, but you don't want to risk a loss!

[jackr]

I think you were secretly glad it would have been too much hassle to do it all by post.

For future ref on the visa issue [though may have changed as haven't kept up with it all], believe immigration can/may work with you regards not having the required funds (for those with extensions based on support of wives) depending on the home/house situation/Thai wife income, etc. There is also the possibility of getting the multi O based on visiting Thai friends/family, which of course doesn't require dosh in bank, though you need to go out to get it and do the bouncing of borders thing. Enjoy the family.

[Rsquared]

Great news Murgatroyd......I am genuinely happy for you.

Have a terrific holiday with your family and get back here soon.

Love to have a beer or three with you when you return.

Cheers.

[plopmeister]

When asked what she'd most like to do while I am here in Thailand my stepdaughter said "Pattaya - Wynam"... which is to say that she wants to go to our usual hotel in Pattaya where she likes the pool. So I'm now going to book the weekend there... All done and booked.

Shame we can't get down to Patts and let the kids play together ....maybe when you come back.......

All the very very best mate...I know we will meet again...