Cleaning Of Lpg Injectors ?

[Nakonamath]

Hi, i have had a bit of trouble with the LPG system we bought the car 2hand, with LPG installed, in the beginning i didnt consider any faults as i havent had LPG before. anyway, we have replaced airfilter and had the lpg filter cleaned, and had a tuneing done to the LPG ECU. after 2-3 days the engine feels doll again, is like when i floor it, it is like running low on gas, it roar but accelerate slowly.

When just having the Tunup done, the system works 100% as on Gasoline, when i floor it i get steady acceleration, so i know it works, my thought is, there must be something dirty, and i read on older LPG systems, the injectors can get a lot of shit in them.

for the time beeing, when i accelerate, it seems to shift gears down to Reeve heavyer than normal, On Gasoline, there are no problems at all.

So does anyone know if i can clean this my self, i did find some articles about it.

or have anyone had the same experience as this, and got it fixed locally ?

Jack

[transam]

No knowledge of LPG systems but l do know that fuel injectors can only be cleaned ''properly'' by ultra sound apparatus.

[Kwasaki]

Maybe this will help

http://www.go-lpg.co.uk/Do_I.html

[Nakonamath]

Ok i saw the link

Ok, so i will look for a petrol injector cleaner, but the LPG injectors are not the same as Patrol Injectors as far as i can understand, and, the problem is only on LPG Patrol/benzin/gasohol/Gasolin have 0 problems, its only on the LPG.

to note, it is not a 100% modern system i owen though...

[Kwasaki]

Ok i saw the link

Ok, so i will look for a petrol injector cleaner, but the LPG injectors are not the same as Patrol Injectors as far as i can understand, and, the problem is only on LPG Patrol/benzin/gasohol/Gasolin have 0 problems, its only on the LPG.

to note, it is not a 100% modern system i owen though...

Well from what you say if it runs well on petrol the your ECU system is working correctly.

Don't know what you mean by not 100% modern system how old is it. ??

My first step would be to check the injector seals for leaks.

Second get the injectors checked for damage and cleaned, if an old system can be done manually but as said finding someone with an ultrasonic cleaner is the way to go.

If you state your location maybe somone can help with that.

[JAS21]

The injectors are just hollow tubes and they go into the air intake anyway so they shouldn't get fouled up. It's more likely to be some other restriction on the gas side.

Maybe start by cleaning the LPG filter again. Any debris in it? It shouldn't have ... check for rust.

If you have a leakage around the injectors you will smell it ... a tiny leak is easy to detect.

Get the vapouriser checked, maybe not efficient enough. Does it get hot? Sufficent water flow to it?

There is a change over solenoid. Is it opening fully for the gas.

You have symptoms of insuffient LPG vapour going to the engine. If it ran OK for a few days after service then it's unlikely to be the ECU but could be failure of one of the inputs to it. Just depends type and complexity. Impossible to determine fault from a distance.

It needs to go to an expert ... find another ... a different one to whoever looked at it before. Unless you know what you are doing DON'T FIDDLE.

[Nakonamath]

The injectors are just hollow tubes and they go into the air intake anyway so they shouldn't get fouled up. It's more likely to be some other restriction on the gas side.

Maybe start by cleaning the LPG filter again. Any debris in it? It shouldn't have ... check for rust.

If you have a leakage around the injectors you will smell it ... a tiny leak is easy to detect.

Get the vapouriser checked, maybe not efficient enough. Does it get hot? Sufficent water flow to it?

There is a change over solenoid. Is it opening fully for the gas.

You have symptoms of insuffient LPG vapour going to the engine. If it ran OK for a few days after service then it's unlikely to be the ECU but could be failure of one of the inputs to it. Just depends type and complexity. Impossible to determine fault from a distance.

It needs to go to an expert ... find another ... a different one to whoever looked at it before. Unless you know what you are doing DON'T FIDDLE.

My system is AUtronics, Not too many know this brand, and the shops say it is an Old system fitt all engine, very simple no OBD or anything, . it is multipoint though :-)

we just had the filter cleaned 2 times, and it ran OK, but i had hoped to feel it better, then after 1 week i went to get a tuning, and it was great for 2-3 days, then it become tired again, My "thought" is if the tuning does measure that the gasflow and change that settings for the optimal RPM and PSI, and then after a few days due to Dirt and shit, its back

we have had 2 tunup with 3 week between, same symptoms, after tuneup it runs great, after few days it gets tired.

I am in Koh chang now, ( holiday ) and that is where i really feel the tired engine, as the hills really are killing it.

Last trip, was more easy to climb the hills, after the last trip, we have got the O-rings in the vaporizor changed ( leaking water ) the filter is cleaned 2 times, airfilter is changed, spark plugs changed, and some hoses changed, So i HAD hoped this trip would show a more powerfull engine but no.

So any suggestions ?

jack

[Kwasaki]

The injectors are just hollow tubes and they go into the air intake anyway so they shouldn't get fouled up. It's more likely to be some other restriction on the gas side.

My system is AUtronics, Not too many know this brand, and the shops say it is an Old system fitt all engine, very simple no OBD or anything, . it is multipoint though :-)

we just had the filter cleaned 2 times, and it ran OK, but i had hoped to feel it better, then after 1 week i went to get a tuning, and it was great for 2-3 days, then it become tired again, My "thought" is if the tuning does measure that the gasflow and change that settings for the optimal RPM and PSI, and then after a few days due to Dirt and shit, its back

we have had 2 tunup with 3 week between, same symptoms, after tuneup it runs great, after few days it gets tired.

I am in Koh chang now, ( holiday ) and that is where i really feel the tired engine, as the hills really are killing it.

Last trip, was more easy to climb the hills, after the last trip, we have got the O-rings in the vaporizor changed ( leaking water ) the filter is cleaned 2 times, airfilter is changed, spark plugs changed, and some hoses changed, So i HAD hoped this trip would show a more powerfull engine but no.

So any suggestions ?

jack

I remember your thread before now Autronic is not a bad system but as I said before injectors do have problems with seals and the hollow tubes as put can get blockages.

A very good point, pointed out was debris from an old dirty air filter housing.

The only other thing I can suggest is get your O2 sensor checked it can cause the problem you are having if faulty or old.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Kwasaki

[JAS21]

Look guys ... two tune ups and it runs OK for a few days then gets the symptoms of low power ... very unlikely that the O2 sensor comes and goes. Any leak around the injectors you would notice a smell, anyway it runs OK for a few days. By the way it's quite common that the injectors are 'helped' to stay in with some kind of sealent ... could even be araldite!

I think that the pointer is ... OK for a few days and then looses power ... have had the filter (I assume the LPG filter) cleaned twice. WHAT was found in it. If it runs Ok on gasoline then you can discount things that are common eg air filter.

May I suggest that for hills you switch back to gasoline.....

Please bear in mind that if its running weak on LPG and they are normally set up slightly rich, that weak mixtures run hot ... much hotter than rich mixtures. Whilst on LPG the flame temperatures are higher anyway ... higher still on a weak mixture. Don't <deleted>> the cylinder head or valves by running too long in this state.

Stand behind the mechanic and see what he does and what he finds. You know that the vapouriser is OK ... engine runs Ok for a few days. It could be injectors blocking ... see if he pokes a bit of wire down them. LPG injectors are very crude in design and quite often point slightly against the air flow.

So it looks like it's down to an LPG restriction ... injectors or LPG filter. If it's continual LPG filter blockage, could be a bit of a problem to sort. If they decide to blow out the LPG line with LPG maybe an idea to go and get as coffe in the next village for a while.

My feeling is that anything else causing a problem would occur all of the time ... not a few days days after a 'tune up'. Anyway what was done on the tune up?? Do I understand that you don't have a piggy back ECU. Even if you do it's software settings and those are unlikely to change.

Let us know the outcome. One final thought, the injector pipework will be rubber, are they changing it every time, pretty unlikely though.

[Nakonamath]

The injectors are just hollow tubes and they go into the air intake anyway so they shouldn't get fouled up. It's more likely to be some other restriction on the gas side.

My system is AUtronics, Not too many know this brand, and the shops say it is an Old system fitt all engine, very simple no OBD or anything, . it is multipoint though :-)

we just had the filter cleaned 2 times, and it ran OK, but i had hoped to feel it better, then after 1 week i went to get a tuning, and it was great for 2-3 days, then it become tired again, My "thought" is if the tuning does measure that the gasflow and change that settings for the optimal RPM and PSI, and then after a few days due to Dirt and shit, its back

we have had 2 tunup with 3 week between, same symptoms, after tuneup it runs great, after few days it gets tired.

I am in Koh chang now, ( holiday ) and that is where i really feel the tired engine, as the hills really are killing it.

Last trip, was more easy to climb the hills, after the last trip, we have got the O-rings in the vaporizor changed ( leaking water ) the filter is cleaned 2 times, airfilter is changed, spark plugs changed, and some hoses changed, So i HAD hoped this trip would show a more powerfull engine but no.

So any suggestions ?

jack

I remember your thread before now Autronic is not a bad system but as I said before injectors do have problems with seals and the hollow tubes as put can get blockages.

A very good point, pointed out was debris from an old dirty air filter housing.

The only other thing I can suggest is get your O2 sensor checked it can cause the problem you are having if faulty or old.

O2 sensor, is the the exhaust sensor that connect to the exchaust pipe ?, i went to suzuki dealer some month ago, and i said i wanted new one, expected it for be 4-500 baht,, WRONG 5000 baht, so they hook up the computer and said on benzin the car was working 100% all numbers read out correct, so there wouldent be a problem with that thing at all.

But, i will to do Autronic shop soon and ask them to pull the shit appart, otherwise i would just buy a new Kit, some offered me some New models at 15k installed, i have the tank already and wires

[Nakonamath]

Look guys ... two tune ups and it runs OK for a few days then gets the symptoms of low power ... very unlikely that the O2 sensor comes and goes. Any leak around the injectors you would notice a smell, anyway it runs OK for a few days. By the way it's quite common that the injectors are 'helped' to stay in with some kind of sealent ... could even be araldite!

I think that the pointer is ... OK for a few days and then looses power ... have had the filter (I assume the LPG filter) cleaned twice. WHAT was found in it. If it runs Ok on gasoline then you can discount things that are common eg air filter.

May I suggest that for hills you switch back to gasoline.....

Please bear in mind that if its running weak on LPG and they are normally set up slightly rich, that weak mixtures run hot ... much hotter than rich mixtures. Whilst on LPG the flame temperatures are higher anyway ... higher still on a weak mixture. Don't <deleted>> the cylinder head or valves by running too long in this state.

Stand behind the mechanic and see what he does and what he finds. You know that the vapouriser is OK ... engine runs Ok for a few days. It could be injectors blocking ... see if he pokes a bit of wire down them. LPG injectors are very crude in design and quite often point slightly against the air flow.

So it looks like it's down to an LPG restriction ... injectors or LPG filter. If it's continual LPG filter blockage, could be a bit of a problem to sort. If they decide to blow out the LPG line with LPG maybe an idea to go and get as coffe in the next village for a while.

My feeling is that anything else causing a problem would occur all of the time ... not a few days days after a 'tune up'. Anyway what was done on the tune up?? Do I understand that you don't have a piggy back ECU. Even if you do it's software settings and those are unlikely to change.

Let us know the outcome. One final thought, the injector pipework will be rubber, are they changing it every time, pretty unlikely though.

Seems you know about about this, happy you join.

well yes the car works 100% on gasoline, no funny days or anything.

so i know it is on the LPG side, vaporizor have got new Orings, and are not leaking ( anymore ), the filter have been cleaned, and there where a lot of black shit in the filter houseing.

I see some video on youtube where LPG repair shop, inject some cleaning fluent into the Injectors and turn on the engine and make it rung through some gas and cleaning fluid.

I do consider to change the whole system for a more, modern version, as i feel im spending a bit too much time on this shit now, however, if i could get it cleaned at it workes, that would be nr 1