How To Avoid Questionable Characters

[Ijustwannateach]

"I once killed a man...."

"Why?"

"He said I looked like Boris Karloff..."

Ah, the great old movies.... I miss 'em.

Getting back to the subject matter, as I may have mentioned before, no one can follow all my rules for dating, not even me. But my list can help people know what issues might be out there.

TopChinese, I think there *is* vetting for us white guys already. There's a clear division between the group of Thais who are willing to date tourists and those who are not, for example... there're likes and dislikes about foreigners who smoke, foreigners who are too young or too old, foreigners who teach, foreigners who run businesses, foreigners who are students, foreigners who go to saunas or not, foreigners who sleep around too much or not enough, foreigners who are generous or not, etc., etc., etc.

A friend of mine told me over the weekend that as far as he was concerned, there were too many foreigners already in Bangkok and the competition was too serious for him. However, he doesn't speak much Thai and stays in the touristy areas, so that may be part of his problem.

[PeaceBlondie]

Speaking of gay men, farang, English teachers, smokers, and drinkers - and we can add the criteria of age and money - I soon discovered why an old man like me can get sex in Thailand, without paying for it. It's okay to be discreetly open in Thailand about being gay. It's okay to be a foreigner, if other things are okay (but plenty of gay Asians aren't attracted to White men). Being a more or less real teacher (say, full time at a govt. school) is a real plus, even if you teach social studies, and English is an honourable thing to teach. Being a non-smoker means they might even French kiss with you, you don't reek of tobacco, and you're not wasting all that money. Being a non-drinker is far more important; respectable Thais and Westerners despise drunkeness.

So, there I was, an English teacher full time in Thailand, sober, smelling only of my Western perspiration, a full head of hair that hid my age, a bounce in my step that outpaced all the 30-somethings, a sense of humour (sanook, clown), and not too fat, skinny, tall, or short. Sixty years old, and I found a boyfriend, with several more available.

But a few more things also help. I'm a nice guy, considered "nam-jai" by people with whom that really counts. I'm non-violent and kind. Even if I'm ugly, think too much, talk too much, and aren't rich enough. And last of all, I had a new sportbike.

I'm reading reviews of what "homosexuality" is. Behavior, orientation, self-identity, and fantasies. Which reminds me: a friend and I were recently discussing a sure indicator of true preference: ask your partner what he thinks about during chuck wow.

And if all these things aren't pidgeon-holing, or categorizing, I don't know what is. You don't have to have a written list to have criteria, and select your partner accordingly. I think we all "vet" our prospective partners. Hey, ya' don't just pick up any guy in the steamy sauna to spend the rest of your life with, do ya? And you soon stop dating someone who doesn't meet your criteria.

[Guest endure]

I see there's a bit of favouritism floating about.

[jdinasia]

ya think?

[TopChinese]

PeaceBlondie - you sound cute. I would like to knoe you better! Plz call me 4 fun!

I think we are all guilty of some internal screening processes one way or another. Wonder how we can agree on a standard set of rules for Thai guys out of some misguided desperation of not being able to meet someone nice out there, given that you guys seem to be seeking different guys in different guys even amongst you farangs.

Remember the old adage... to meet Khun Perfect, you have to be Mr Perfect yourself.

[Ijustwannateach]

TC, my rules sound cynical and desperate, especially because there are so many of them and I am combining situations I know through friends with ones that I have had personally, which makes it sound like I have had a harder time here than I really have. But I really, really don't follow them all, and I don't think anyone can. You have to take your level of risk into consideration.

Your mileage may vary, after all.

And you're right- if I met anyone who really matched all of these qualifications, he'd probably have a boyfriend/love interest already, unless I got really lucky.

Feel free to post your reverse list regarding vetting foreigners!!!

Might spark some interesting discussion or raise some eyebrows!

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

I see there's a bit of favouritism floating about.

That's possible, but then again, maybe certain posters on any forum, or certain customers in the same pub, become friends because they have the same interests, in spite of various stark differences between them. Just as prospective boyfriends become friends.

[Guest endure]

I see there's a bit of favouritism floating about.

That's possible, but then again, maybe certain posters on any forum, or certain customers in the same pub, become friends because they have the same interests, in spite of various stark differences between them. Just as prospective boyfriends become friends.

That's fine as long as one of those customer-friends isn't also the doorman who decides who gets into the pub in the first place.

[Scott123]

.... how many Thai Chinese money boys have you ever seen in Thailand? None by my count.

I visit LOS regularly. I have only offed bar boys twice, both are in BKK. One is Thai-chinese from Chiang Rai. So, to me, at least 50% chance the bar boy could be Thai-chinese.

[PeaceBlondie]

.... how many Thai Chinese money boys have you ever seen in Thailand? None by my count.

I visit LOS regularly. I have only offed bar boys twice, both are in BKK. One is Thai-chinese from Chiang Rai. So, to me, at least 50% chance the bar boy could be Thai-chinese.

Scott, in spite of a temporary loosening of the rules for discussing the morality of prostitution, which has primarily been held by the straight folks on ThaiVisa, we try not to discuss the offing of barboys much or directly (I'm not sure where to draw the line).

But I suspect that when most people refer to "Thai-Chinese," they mean the rich people whose ancestry goes back to China, not Hill tribe folks from the North, China or Burma who are typically still poor. As if to say, not many girls who graduated from Oxford or Harvard are sex workers.

[Papa_Lazarou]

I visit LOS regularly. I have only offed bar boys twice, both are in BKK. One is Thai-chinese from Chiang Rai. So, to me, at least 50% chance the bar boy could be Thai-chinese.

Ha Ha. You should be a statistician.

Its like saying that there's twice as many murders in Washington than New York, but Washington has twice as many police, therefore to solve the problem they should jail all the policemen.

[Scott123]

Ha Ha. You should be a statistician.

Its like saying that there's twice as many murders in Washington than New York, but Washington has twice as many police, therefore to solve the problem they should jail all the policemen.

Of course I made my comments based on my personal experience. What is wrong with that?

Do you have any proven statistics that most prostitutes are Thais, not Thai-chinese?

PeaceBlond, thanks for the advice. Being a good boy, I will not participate any furthur discussion on the subject of prostitute here.

Edited August 9, 2006 by Scott123

[Papa_Lazarou]

Do you have any proven statistics that most prostitutes are Thais, not Thai-chinese?

Nope. Its not a subject I have any interest in nor knowledge of. I bow to your greater expertise.

Sorry to break the flow...Pray continue...

Edited August 9, 2006 by Papa_Lazarou

[Ijustwannateach]

As a bit of penance for seeming overly-heavy-handed on the rules I posted, I will remark that even the rule about the gogo bars and nightlife scenes is not universal. I know several men (even on this forum) who seem quite happy with their boyfriends, whom they met on the scene. I know guys who met their boyfriends in saunas, I know guys who met their boyfriends in parks; I even know one guy whose boyfriend was a student when they met and they are still together, and maybe one of the happiest couples I know.

None of the rules are universal. But they are useful, I still believe.

I'd still like to see TC's "reverse" image version of them...

[Papa_Lazarou]

As a bit of penance for seeming overly-heavy-handed on the rules I posted,

"I just want to moderate"

yippee.

( I love men in uniform)

[jdinasia]

I see there's a bit of favouritism floating about.

That's possible, but then again, maybe certain posters on any forum, or certain customers in the same pub, become friends because they have the same interests, in spite of various stark differences between them. Just as prospective boyfriends become friends.

That's fine as long as one of those customer-friends isn't also the doorman who decides who gets into the pub in the first place.

a post or two have returned it seems and just where it went off track from someone misquoting me and attacking are now gone. No Problem with that!

I've gone back and read through some posts/threads where memebers have said --don't date TH/CH they ave severe issues etc etc etc-- ... and then now to --do date Th/Ch even though they have minor issues they are still better than XXX-- <<sorry those are not direct quotes and are not attributed to anyone>> The beauty of this reversal is that it carries on the nature of painting people into ugly little boxes!

Again ---------

Dating in itself is a vetting process ... however all that is required to do it well is time and being a decent human being that treats people with respect and insists on the same.

[Ijustwannateach]

Whether the boxes are ugly or beautiful, they are used by all as shortcuts to sort out the wheat from the chaff. You can't get to know everyone on the scene as a soulmate before making your decisions about which ones to date. Some people even recommend that one consider carefully what kind of places one meets one's prospective dates- I entirely agree!

"Steven"

Papa- not sure what you mean, but if that was directed at me, no, I have no desire for that, and it's not a topic on this thread, sorry.

[DUMPSTER]

you KNOW my feelings about this ... and the timing of this poppingup again is ... well ....

As i look over the entire topic again ... well things become more and more clear. If you have the same types of experiences over and over again .... you just must look to see what the common denominators are.

Often it will be WHERE you meet someone ... but sometimes ... it will just be YOU.

Agreed.

There is no rule here against discussing this kind of issue.

There should be

P.S. No one has mentioned that I obviously broke my own rule:

"Steven"

I don't think anybody cares.

I find this topic very interesting.

I take it you must need the rules then!

my rules sound cynical and desperate

"Steven"

They do indeed

As a bit of penance for seeming overly-heavy-handed on the rules I posted,

"I just want to moderate"

yippee.

( I love men in uniform)

Yet another interesting take by Papa. 30 posts in and I still don't have a clue what he's going on about

Like a few of the other guys who have posted, this kind of topic isn't really my cup of tea but if Steven wants to post his rules, then I support him. It's kind of like his community service.

The only problem is that even if you handed the list out at Don Muang, guys would still break them. why? Human nature.

The sad thing is that one would even bother to think up a set of rules and then bother to follow them. Why? because as, I think, somebody else pointed out, It's not the guys you are meeting that's causing you the problems, it's the idiot choosing to meet the guys in the first place.

[jdinasia]

you KNOW my feelings about this ... and the timing of this poppingup again is ... well ....

As i look over the entire topic again ... well things become more and more clear. If you have the same types of experiences over and over again .... you just must look to see what the common denominators are.

Often it will be WHERE you meet someone ... but sometimes ... it will just be YOU.

Agreed.

There is no rule here against discussing this kind of issue.

There should be

P.S. No one has mentioned that I obviously broke my own rule:

"Steven"

I don't think anybody cares.

I find this topic very interesting.

I take it you must need the rules then!

my rules sound cynical and desperate

"Steven"

They do indeed

As a bit of penance for seeming overly-heavy-handed on the rules I posted,

"I just want to moderate"

yippee.

( I love men in uniform)

Yet another interesting take by Papa. 30 posts in and I still don't have a clue what he's going on about

Like a few of the other guys who have posted, this kind of topic isn't really my cup of tea but if Steven wants to post his rules, then I support him. It's kind of like his community service.

The only problem is that even if you handed the list out at Don Muang, guys would still break them. why? Human nature.

The sad thing is that one would even bother to think up a set of rules and then bother to follow them. Why? because as, I think, somebody else pointed out, It's not the guys you are meeting that's causing you the problems, it's the idiot choosing to meet the guys in the first place.

Down DUMPY!! Down Boy!

Though I personally find these threads that stereotype Thai men as racist and demeaning ... I do NOT say that people shouldn't have their own views or right to express them!

I just say that opposing views should be heard.

Yes I think this form of stereotyping is just skirting the prostitution/bargirl prohibition enforced pretty uniformly across TV. However it IS skirting it.

yes I think that if we changed "Thai guy" to "Gay guy"then certain posters in this sub-forum wouldn't be posting ....

All in all ... some people that post in here could be considered "Questionable Characters"

[TopChinese]

I spent my National Day holiday yesterday trying to come up with some rules to vet out the quality GWMs.

Not that I'm in a position to be making any comments when I'm single and not inclined to make a monogamous commitment to any one at the moment (unless he's George Clooney and bottoms for me every night).

It is also obvious that what works for me may not work for every GWM-loving Thai guy. As JD have pointed out, I'm based in Singapore and is in Thailand often for business and pleasure. I do not speak Thai and I do not have an indepth access to the scene. I have on the other hand been meeting GWMs in Thailand for the last 10 years and speak from that perspective.

Maybe I should phrase these guidelines negatively, it IS a difficult place out here:

How to meet decent GWMs in Thailand:

1. Stay out of the go go bars.

You're competing with money boys for their clients. Do them a favour and let them earn their money. Besides the GWMs who have to pay for sex, generally do it because they need the sex.

2. Silom/Suriwong/Saphan Kwai

Very grey area. On one hand, a lot of GWM trash, curious tourists (see pt 4) and money boys. However, there are a lot of other eligible GWMs who are there because of friends in town, buddies or desperate to just meet decent thai guys like you. Keep your eyes/heart open, if he treats you like a money boy, he's probably looking for one.

3. Stray out of your comfort zone.

Friends/buddies are great to hang out with for moral support and to size up the crowd in a joint. But when it comes to grabbing the farang of your dreams, please be prepared to venture on your own. Wallflowering is only good if you stop a man in 50 paces with just one look. Strike first or you'll be mourning the rest of your National Day holiday fantasising of the trim GWM btm at the bar that you sorely missed. Carpe Dick.

4. Tourists are generally not LTR material.

They will leave you. Enough said. Sex can be great but be mindful of all the baggage they left behind back home. Boyfriends, careers, mortgages. Long distance relationship take a lot of work and why bother when you have so many choices living in the country with one of the largest expat communities in Asia.

5. Saunas.

Saunas are the most efficient way to meet men. Where else would you be able to see 400 over gay guys and size them up in a short time? And its convenient for sex with lube, rubbers and a place safe from curious parents. However, the emphasis here is about physical attributes and the sum attractiveness of your existence will be reduced to your general physicique. No GWM is going to go for you in Babylon if you look like Thaksin or Junichiro Koizumi.

6. Non-sexual mediums

There are more GWMs out there than the ones in the scene. They may be married/bi/closetted who fear being seen in Soi 4 as much as you do. Try the workplace, the gym, country club, wine tastings, theater. At least you have established that you have some common non-sexual interests with these GWMs.

7. The Internet.

Websites like Fridae/gaydar are good if you want to meet English speaking GWMs who may also be tired of the gay scene. Chats can work.. even if Gay.com can be a bit weird at times. But there is a limited supply of them and you'll have to put up with a lot of blind dates with guys who do not look like their photos. Be patient, this can be very rewarding. Please also note point 4.

8. Friends of friends.

Friends are great GWM-grabbing devices, ask a more outspoken friend to introduce Khun SexyHunk in the corner to you. Plus, most of the GWMs introduced to you have been screened by your friend already. Word of mouth assurance of quality is very important.

9. The Localised GWM trash.

Some GWMs are so full of themselves and think of themselves as a sex god to Thai men. They know what's best for you because they are the best. They would happily claim that they know Thailand/Asia very well after living here for 3+ months. Ignore these GWM trash. They know nothing. Happily, for every GWM &lt;deleted&gt; who prefer hamburgers in Sukhumvit to som tam, there is at least 5 GWMs who are down-to-earth and is making an effort to learn about Thai culture.

10. Respect thyself.

This is collarary to 9. You are not just a piece of Asian cock/ass to be used by a white guy for his selfish sexual pleasures. You don't have to put up with condescending GWMs who patronise you and your command of the English language. You do not need his money and his influence to make your stand in the world. You deserve to be treated with respect and as an equal. Do not waste your time with anyone else who cannot give you this.

Hope this helps... I know it has for me, having met some decent and wonderful friends in Thailand that keep me going back for more and more.

Will be in Bangkok this weekend if anyone here is inclined to discuss on these rules in person.

Edited August 10, 2006 by TopChinese

[popshirt]

Great post, Top Chinese. Thank you for speaking your piece on this.

I'm not in LOS this weekend, am now in another LOS as in Angeles, but hope to meet you some day!

[Ijustwannateach]

Excellent, indeed! Thanks for a view from a very different angle indeed, TC!

[DUMPSTER]

I do not speak Thai and I do not have an indepth access to the scene. I have on the other hand been meeting GWMs in Thailand for the last 10 years and speak from that perspective.

So who are your rules for then? They cannot be for Thais as you say you are not one. So you cant really speak on their behalf can you. So Singaporeans is it?

BTW Your rules are just as daft as Stevens.

Maybe we should ask what kind of characters actually bother to make lists, to avoid guys, in the first place. Questionable ones, me thinks

[dukkha]

RULES....sounds rather fascist to moi...one rule for some and another rule for others..this discourse is becoming laughable....when can people come to accept people for who they are despite their background..you meet someone you like them, you meet someone and you dont like them, does there have to be an eternal analysis of the interaction going on...thank Buddha I am in my 60's and can move forward............ Dukkha

[jdinasia]

TC's rules are from the viewpoint of a Singaporean fluent with English that visits Thailand and likes GWM ...

not useless ....

but certainly not the same as a Thai would use

My partner has one rule ...

Meet nice guys and spend time getting to know them ... strangely <ha> that applies to everyone ... Thai/Farang etc .. and dates/friends etc

Edited August 11, 2006 by jdinasia

[TopChinese]

JD, thanks for that!

Was just trying to share my experiences. I was not trying to speak for Thai people. There are a lot of us non-Thai Asians out here who are respectful of where we are and how we may be competing for the small pool of nice GWMs out there.

And nice GWMs in Thailand are few and far to come by. Unlike Dukkha, time unfortunately is of the essence, and some of us just don't want to waste time with dealing with trash.

JD maybe you could share how your thai partner meets nice GWM like you..

[jdinasia]

it's been told here before ... chatted twice on gay.com then started dating

[popshirt]

it's been told here before ... chatted twice on gay.com then started dating

Almost ditto for me and mine. Except it was Gaydar. And we were not so much physically attracted as we were interested in each other's culture and lives. He wanted to practice English. And we did that online--at a distance--for almost a year, nearly every day, for at least an hour. Then we met and it was like being with a known friend, except the physical presence created a wonderful sexual tension that surprised us both. That was 3 years ago and we are happy together. I must admit I knew nothing about "rules" at that time but I have many farang friends who end up with "questionable characters" ..........I was lucky.

[DUMPSTER]

Ok so lets take a look at rule number 9.

9. The Localised GWM trash.

Some GWMs are so full of themselves and think of themselves as a sex god to Thai men. They know what's best for you because they are the best. They would happily claim that they know Thailand/Asia very well after living here for 3+ months. Ignore these GWM trash. They know nothing. Happily, for every GWM &lt;deleted&gt; who prefer hamburgers in Sukhumvit to som tam, there is at least 5 GWMs who are down-to-earth and is making an effort to learn about Thai culture.

Some GWMs are so full of themselves and think of themselves as a sex god to Thai men.

But so are some Thais and even some Singaporeans

Are you a sex god TC?

They know what's best for you because they are the best.

As above

They would happily claim that they know Thailand/Asia very well after living here for 3+ months.

They know what they want to know. You cannot say someone who has been here 10 years knows it all because everyone is different. I've been here 5 years so I know more than someone who has been here 4, What judgement system is that? The BS system

Ignore these GWM trash. They know nothing.

Nothing! That's a bit harsh. They know where Asia is at least

Happily, for every GWM &lt;deleted&gt; who prefer hamburgers in Sukhumvit to som tam,

I don't like Tom Yung kung, bloody awful stuff, but then again I don't eat hamburgers. Can you judge a man by the food he eats? How shallow is that? So you are a &lt;deleted&gt; if you don't eat rice? You did say you were single, right?

there is at least 5 GWMs who are down-to-earth and is making an effort to learn about Thai culture.

corruption, shopping, how to make lots of noise, how to look after dogs/animals, , how to cheat in exams, how to ride a motorcycle without looking where you are going, how to drive, how to build roads, how to build an airport in 40 years, how to fold a plastic bag, how to tie a plastic bag, how to stop an elephant at an intersection.

How about learning just to be a decent human being? Not harming people, having love and compassion for people. Those are the rules you need in life then you might attract someone you can share your life with. That’s not cultural, that’s universal.

[jdinasia]

Down Dumpster! Down!

TC's a doll ... and after all he's a tourist when he comes here .... give the boy a break!