Students' Blood Scare In Kalasin

[MEL1]

Fake doctors, dirty needles repeatedly used...... This is culpable, willful mass intent to murder.....

Are you a lawyer?

I understand anger, but to define it as culpable, wilful "mass intent to murder"?

Slight exaggeration there...

-mel.

[Reasonableman]

Fake doctors, dirty needles repeatedly used...... This is culpable, willful mass intent to murder.....

Are you a lawyer?

I understand anger, but to define it as culpable, wilful "mass intent to murder"?

Slight exaggeration there...

-mel.

Possibly, the range might be negligent->culpable. Are greed or stupidity valid defences?

Edited July 1, 2012 by Reasonableman

[MEL1]

Fake doctors, dirty needles repeatedly used...... This is culpable, willful mass intent to murder.....

Are you a lawyer?

I understand anger, but to define it as culpable, wilful "mass intent to murder"?

Slight exaggeration there...

-mel.

Possibly, the range might be negligent->culpable. Are greed or stupidity valid defences?

Here in Thailand?

That has to be an absolute 'YES' - says Simon Cowell. - They pass to the next round..

-mel.

[Orac]

i can't remember a doctor ever taking a blood sample from me and i have had many taken.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect App

[tombkk]

Three troll posts have been removed.

[Bramdaddy]

Disgraceful Thailand. So now kids have to wait until September, a full two months from now, to see if they contracted a blood disease. <deleted> are these people thinking? Total disregard for humans here sometimes.

[Valentine]

The concern should be Hepatitis.

I won't bore anyone with the stats, but Hepatitis is endemic in Thailand.

Thanks, GK. Would annual checkups be the norm for hepatitis? I haven't heard of it happening at Thai schools before. Parental/guardian consent would be required, would it not?

I think he means that hepatitis could be passed on through using the same needles.

[cowslip]

THose of you thinking of having any medical treatments in Thailand - take note!

[cowslip]

Fake doctors, dirty needles repeatedly used...... This is culpable, willful mass intent to murder.....

Are you a lawyer?

I understand anger, but to define it as culpable, wilful "mass intent to murder"?

Slight exaggeration there...

-mel.

"mass intent" - yeah, right!

[Reasonableman]

The concern should be Hepatitis.

I won't bore anyone with the stats, but Hepatitis is endemic in Thailand.

Thanks, GK. Would annual checkups be the norm for hepatitis? I haven't heard of it happening at Thai schools before. Parental/guardian consent would be required, would it not?

I think he means that hepatitis could be passed on through using the same needles.

Oh yes, silly me. ;-) I was hoping for the reason behind the annual blood testing regime, testing for what?

[Valentine]

The concern should be Hepatitis.

I won't bore anyone with the stats, but Hepatitis is endemic in Thailand.

Thanks, GK. Would annual checkups be the norm for hepatitis? I haven't heard of it happening at Thai schools before. Parental/guardian consent would be required, would it not?

I think he means that hepatitis could be passed on through using the same needles.

Oh yes, silly me. ;-) I was hoping for the reason behind the annual blood testing regime, testing for what?

I too wonder about this annual blood test. In all the years my kids attended Thai schools they never once were forced to have a blood test.

[MEL1]

The concern should be Hepatitis.

I won't bore anyone with the stats, but Hepatitis is endemic in Thailand.

Thanks, GK. Would annual checkups be the norm for hepatitis? I haven't heard of it happening at Thai schools before. Parental/guardian consent would be required, would it not?

I think he means that hepatitis could be passed on through using the same needles.

Oh yes, silly me. ;-) I was hoping for the reason behind the annual blood testing regime, testing for what?

Schools do test anually - for sight, hearing, general health, and bloods to check for Hepatitis, Bird Flu and the norms of Asian sub-tropical diseases.

However, I wouldn't say that their tests comprise a HIV test as a norm.

The concoction in this article would lead to an uncommon test, if it is true the 'fake' doctors were testing for HIV. That is not normal.

They may test for drug abuse, syphallis and so forth, but in students I even doubt the parents were informed it was a HIV test.

That all tantamounts to misrepresentation, at least, and especially from the board of directors of the institute, if they were aware of events and projected results.

-mel.

[kimamey]

Incidents like this are a cause for grave concern among parents. They seriously undermine parents' trust in ALL school-based vaccination and other health programs. This could result in many parents refusing to allow their children to be vaccinated at school. School-based health programs are very effective at reaching this age group, and anything undermining them would be a potential disaster.

the fake doctors and using of one needle on many students are the obvious problems here but you've mentioned the ongoing problems that many may not think about. Well done.

[softgeorge]

I can imagine exactly what they are going through. I was stabbed with an allegedly blood filled syringe by a dirtbag whilst working. Underwent 3 blood tests over a 6 month period. The 1st indicates that you were not infected at the time (HIV, Hepatitis etc) taken on the day, the 2nd in 3 months and the 3rd in 6 months. Thank god I was cleared of everything but went through total hell and so did my family wondering what the outcome will be and always preparing for the worst. 12 months after the incident I had a 4th blood test just to put my mind at total ease.

[geriatrickid]

The concern should be Hepatitis.

I won't bore anyone with the stats, but Hepatitis is endemic in Thailand.

Thanks, GK. Would annual checkups be the norm for hepatitis? I haven't heard of it happening at Thai schools before. Parental/guardian consent would be required, would it not?

If you mean the school stuff, based upon my understanding of the screening, they don't normally check for hepatitis. There is a bit of false confidence because of the vaccination program. However, in this case, I would hope they do, and would hope the local medical officer intervenes, along with the medical council of Thailand. I wasn't even aware that the schools were allowed to take blood from minors unless it was an official MoH activity and there was consent from the parents.

[geriatrickid]

I think he means that hepatitis could be passed on through using the same needles.

yes, sorry for not being clearer.

[Thai at Heart]

Why do healthy young people need a yearly blood test ?

Blood samples might be taken for scientific testing, for example, to detect asymptomatic infections, such as malaria, or to detect drug and alcohol usage. There are probably several other reasons besides these. That would require parental permission for students unable to consent legally for themselves.

It says annual check? If there are no symptoms, why subject every student to an annual check? It It is most likely a con forcing unnecessary tests resulting in some nice kick backs. It should not be necessary to have mandatory yearly checks in universities, but I can see how it happens.

My kids came hone from school having told me they got vaccinated. It isn't that I mind the vaccine, but it would be nice to be informed beforehand what it was and how it was to be administered. A letter home is all it takes , but I can easily see how a school simply mandates a yearly check when it isn't necessary at all

[Richmeister]

Nothing in this country surprises me any more. Its just one big joke after another.

[givenall]

Oh gawd..........horrible

Those poor kids

So what about the doctor, will he be forces to use an infected needle on him? I hope so

[Colabamumbai]

Blood tests are not necessary to test for HIV. A swab of the mouth is all that is necessary and that is what insurance companies do before issuing a policy. Take you to the hospital and the doctor swabs the mouth.

[MEL1]

Blood tests are not necessary to test for HIV. A swab of the mouth is all that is necessary and that is what insurance companies do before issuing a policy. Take you to the hospital and the doctor swabs the mouth.

Which is why I indicated that a HIV test of students is not normal practice, but an annual health and blood check is.

-mel.

[atyclb]

The fake doctors and the needle reused 148 times to test for HIV are two different issues both arising from the Thai habit of risking human life for petty financial gain and/or expedience or indifference to human life.

Any decent fake doctor should know not to reuse needles.

This is despicable. Perhaps he/she got the medical degree the same way the minister of innovation got his?

Lady Gaga can add "Fake doctor" to her list right after Fake Rolex.

[atyclb]

For 100 measley baht a student, someone exposed students to aids and perhaps worst yet...the fear of uncertainty of it. The needles were used on June 12. Duh no one tested positive...it will take several months for antibodies to develop which is what they test for.

Not necessarily so according to this site:

HIV reproduces rapidly once transmitted, with the high virus activity detectable in up to 90% of people in the first two weeks following infection and readily detected by HIV Home Kit rapid home HIV instant test kits – though some people may not exhibit symptoms of HIV for up to six months.

But overall an appalling situation and one hopes that in addition to dismissing the entire school executive that criminal charges are also brought against them and the fake "doctors" they employed. Unfortunately stupidity is not a criminal offense while defamation and naming anyone involved would no doubt see those responsible racing off to file police complaints.

OP mentions "antibodies" You found a page that refers to viral load. Non antibody tests are likely expensive while the antibody assay is not.

Some helpful info:

HIV tests that detect the genetic material of HIV itself (rather than antibodies or antigens) are known as PCR tests. PCR stands for Polymerase Chain Reaction and is a common way of testing for a variety of different organisms. The overall process of extracting and amplifying the genetic material of an organism (in this case HIV) and then testing for it with a PCR test is called Nucleic-acid Amplification Testing or NAT. NAT tests generally take two forms: DNA PCR tests and RNA PCR tests.

RNA PCR tests are most frequently used for screening blood donations and donor organs for HIV, while DNA PCR tests are used for testing newborn babies born to HIV positive mothers. Both types of test can be used to measure the amount of virus that is present within a person's body (when they will usually be referred to as 'viral load' tests). NAT is sometimes also offered for diagnosing individuals, but because it is costly and complicated to perform, antibody testing is far more common in testing clinics.

NAT generally gives positive results much sooner than standard antibody testing would, making it useful in situations where early diagnosis is necessary. An RNA PCR test will produce a positive test result within two to three weeks. A DNA PCR test will provide positive results within three to four weeks (sometimes sooner). As long as the recommended amount of time has elapsed before taking the test (people taking the test for personal diagnosis should ask their testing clinic if they are unsure), the test will be able to give a very accurate result. False positive results are more common than false negatives due to the PCR test's sensitivity, so all positive results must be double checked using a standard antibody test.

A p24 antigen test is another type of HIV test. Antigens are the substances found on a foreign body or germ that trigger the production of antibodies in the body. The antigen on HIV that most commonly provokes an antibody response is the protein P24. Early in HIV infection, P24 is produced in excess and can be detected in the blood serum (although as HIV becomes fully established in the body it will fade to undetectable levels).

P24 antigen tests are not usually used for general HIV diagnostic purposes, as they have a very low sensitivity and they only work before antibodies are produced in the period immediately after HIV infection.

Some modern tests combine a P-24 antigen test with a standard antibody test, meaning diagnosis during the three month 'window period' is more likely.

Edited July 1, 2012 by atyclb

[mrdome]

Re-testing in 3 months and hopefully everyone will be OK. My question is do they know the real culprit and can arrest him/her?

[Docno]

Out come the wolves again, saying things like 'this is typical Thai behaviour', 'this could only happen in Thailand', etc, etc. You might learn something if you Google names like "William Hamman", "Fitzgerald Anthony Hudson", "Ron Harris", "Reginald Gill", etc. Some of these fakes worked at hospitals, gave workshops at medical conferences, ran practices. Time to put the high horse back in the stable...

[Credo]

Re-testing in 3 months and hopefully everyone will be OK. My question is do they know the real culprit and can arrest him/her?

The OP says 'fake doctors', so there was more than one, I assume.

[Thai at Heart]

Blood tests are not necessary to test for HIV. A swab of the mouth is all that is necessary and that is what insurance companies do before issuing a policy. Take you to the hospital and the doctor swabs the mouth.

Which is why I indicated that a HIV test of students is not normal practice, but an annual health and blood check is.

-mel.

If so why is a blood check normal?

[geriatrickid]

For those that say this is typical of Thailand, please note similar acts of stupidity have occurred in western countries. By coincidence I received a bulletin on June 27 in respect to this;

University of Prince Edward Island officials are reviewing lab procedures after issuing warnings to about 300 students they may have been exposed to HIV, hepatitis B or C. UPEI dean of science Christian Lacroix said the students used blood glucose testing equipment during class. The testing involved a lancet and a receptacle for the blood. The lancets were single use only, but the receptacles were used by several students. UPEI reviewed its procedures after a story from a Manitoba high school about improper use of equipment there,

I looked up the Manitoba case;

Some students at a Winnipeg aboriginal high school are relieved after receiving results on Monday from HIV and hepatitis tests they underwent following an improperly administered diabetes test. About 70 students and staff at Southeast Collegiate were improperly tested for diabetes last month by a University of Manitoba faculty member who pricked their fingers with the same glucometer pen.

The professor, who is with the pediatrics and child health department at the university's medical school, did replace the lancet — the pricking needle — for each person. However, the pen itself is not meant to be used by more than one person, university officials told CBC News last week.

These two examples do not excuse the Thai incident, but they demonstrate that stupidity is not restricted to Thailand.

[PoodMaiDai]

A few years ago I had the unfortunate experience of having to visit a clinic in Krabi (sliced my foot open rock climbing) where the "doctor" tried to use a used (dirty) needle on me. I watched him pick it right up from him soaking it in a little dish of what looked like antiseptic. I told him I wanted a new one and wanted to see him take it out of the package, which he would not do and kept saying it was "ok" and "no pom-pem Mr." Needless to say, I left immediately. No telling how many people he has infected with HIV or hepatitis over the years, all to save 5 or 10 baht.

Regarding the current case, where are these fake doctors now? If they know they are fake, why are they not in custody?

Fake police, fake doctors, fake teachers... it is no wonder this place is an absolute cluster <deleted> in every sense of the word. And people trust them to do proper autopsies and find the real cause of deaths? Please.

[PoodMaiDai]

After thinking about it... the fake doctors are probably not in custody yet because the fake teachers and staff who hired them can't get he fake police to find and arrest them.