Six Tourists Among 10 Dead In Surat Thani VIP Bus Accident

[gark]

Why are people, especially westerners, still riding in these mini-vans and VIP busses with all the press about how many accidents and deaths there are? The quickest way to save lives, is don't travel in Thailand in those death traps. Some of the responsibility does have to be shared with those who willingly hop on board. You can't say it is 100% the driver, the company, or the government. True, they are 100% responsible for driving well with well maintained vehicles. But passengers are responsible for their decision to get on. I have lived here 6 years and I never ride in them even though I have no car. I don't see why the plane or the train aren't chosen first. If they don't go where you want to go, don't go there unless you except and understand the risks associated.

Agree totally. If we boycott the buses they'll have no choice but introduce better safety standards. Money talks, everywhere, without a glitch! I am starting tonight.

[DLock]

This latest crash takes the focus away from the Australian murdered...

Which took the focus from the 2 girls who died on Phi Phi...

Which took away the focus...on some other tragic that I can't even remember...

Just like the last tragedy, this one will soon fade as another takes it's place as "Tragedy de Jour".

This place will never change. It's not held to the same standards and laws as "the West". No one is accountable.

Demanding and voting with your feet changes nothing...

[fxe1200]

The most possible cause for a tyre to burst, is that the tyre is overinflated. When you look at gas stations,there - in most cases - is an air hose without a meter. The connected compressor delivers about 80psi. I see it every day, that Thai drivers and riders just wait until there is no air flux any more when they pump up their tyres, thus driving off with around 80psi pressure inside the tube or tyre, instead of 30psi, as it is recommended for i.e. a Honda Wave, or around 32 to 35 psi for a regular car tyre. And those folks are not aware of the danger involved. I always carry a pressure gauge with me and until today all my offers to others to adjust the tyre pressure using my gauge had been rejected.

I would strongly recommend that the police checks the pressure of the remaining intact tyres of the bus There might be the solution, why this accident happened in the first place.

[Screws]

1584 is the DOT number - for reporting bad driving. What would happen if you were to call while on the bus & pass the phone to some Thais to get the message across? Maybe I will do it some time.

[uranuss]

The most possible cause for a tyre to burst, is that the tyre is overinflated. When you look at gas stations,there - in most cases - is an air hose without a meter. The connected compressor delivers about 80psi. I see it every day, that Thai drivers and riders just wait until there is no air flux any more when they pump up their tyres, thus driving off with around 80psi pressure inside the tube or tyre, instead of 30psi, as it is recommended for i.e. a Honda Wave, or around 32 to 35 psi for a regular car tyre. And those folks are not aware of the danger involved. I always carry a pressure gauge with me and until today all my offers to others to adjust the tyre pressure using my gauge had been rejected.

I would strongly recommend that the police checks the pressure of the remaining intact tyres of the bus There might be the solution, why this accident happened in the first place.

they only have have two settings for tyre pressure in los,nearly flat or nearly exploding.

[sbk]

Tasteless post removed. Do try to remember that the people who died have families and loved ones.

[Udox]

1584 is the DOT number - for reporting bad driving. What would happen if you were to call while on the bus & pass the phone to some Thais to get the message across? Maybe I will do it some time.

I did it about 3 years ago on a Pattaya-Bangkok bus. My (Thai) friend actually called the bus company head office whilst we were en-route and reported the driver. It had an effect of sorts. The bus company must have called to to the driver (whilst he was driving!) and told him one of the passengers had complained about his driving. He pulled the bus over and demanded to know which person had reported him. We were not stupid enough to stand up and after 5 minutes he got behind the wheel again and drove on, spitting and cursing - however we made it to Bangkok in one piece so - job done ! Result !

In my opinion, looking at statistics. There are hundreds (maybe thousands)of aircraft flying around Thailand every day. Most make it to their destination without scaring their passengers half to death (literally). Whats the difference?

Nobody can fly a plane without solid training to international standards and an appropriate licence issued by an international body.

Meanwhile, Somchai and Surasak for xxx bus company passed their Thai driving test 3 months ago in a red mazda pick-up and yesterday were up until 3am at the Karaoke bar round the corner - but just to make sure they stay awake - have some 'special' red pills and 3 bottles of M150 standing by.

The bus should be OK as it has only just been repaired with the finest second-hand parts following being written off in it's last accident 5 months ago.

[FarangBuddha]

I just saw the tv reports of this one, if they're to be believed there was at least one passenger who tried to reason with the (speeding) driver and was told to shut up or get off.

I have noticed the past few trips on the bus rides between Pattaya and Bangkok return that the bus drivers drive noticeably slower than in the past. So slow in fact that I almost thought the bus had some kind of engine trouble and we would shortly be coming to a stop. In any case, this has new "slow-speed" driving policy has been in force on each trip I've taken for the past several months. I surmise that possibly the buses have been fitted with GPS tracking devices and the central office can now monitor the speed of the buses.

I do feel safer now and it has not added any time to the trip at 2 hours (but it's no longer sometimes 1.5 hours).

[Seekandfind]

No more VIP/RIP buses for me. I recall coming back from Hua Hin last year on a bus driven by a driver whose arms cradled the huge steering wheel while his head moved in a circular motion during the entire journey. When he pulled into the depot he was asleep at the wheel before all the passengers had alighted.

A Thai fellow passenger informed me that this driver was very probably on his third 'turn around' trip and about to start his fourth.

I've read many reports of assaults on passengers( who complain or request a slower speed) by drivers. The transport business here, because it's a cash cow, harbours some of the nastiest Thais you could meet and when Thais are Nasty they're VERY nasty.

[PoodMaiDai]

the amount of times i've known that drivers have been on meth in a vehicle i've been carried in doesn't bear thinking about.

It's VERY common place for long distance drivers to be on meth. And not just in Thailand, but all around the world. However, in Thailand, it's not just some of them. It's most of them. No urine checks on these drivers, ever.

Drivers here are often given long routes with little wiggle room to make their time. They have no choice but to put the pedal to the metal and drive as quickly as they can do get to the destination. Many of them will even take (given to them) another all day/night shift after finishing one, thus the meth comes in handy for these guys. Some of them don't have a choice.

The owners of the companies are equally at fault as the drivers themselves.

[Skywalker69]

_{Driving a bit slower is economic, using less fuel to the miles. In a year it could safe the Buss Companys lots of money and would also be better for the environment.}

Edited July 4, 2012 by metisdead
: Posting in all capitals or in all bold, and using large or unusual fonts and colors is bad netiquette. Font reset.

[coma]

Yes. I just read the article in the Thai Daily Newspaper and they have a witness that reported that several foriegners approached the driver and insist that he slow down but the driver refused to listen to them. Massive D'head.

They are also reporting financial compensation of 700000 baht to the families of each of the deceased. For what it is worth.

[coma]

From the photo, the bus looks like it ran into a solid wall with those incredible damages. Yet it just ran into an electric pole. Just unbelievable that they put such solid constructions (made of concrete) next to the roads. They should of course have poles like in other countries that fall over easy, thus saving the lives of the people in the cars that eventually collide into such items.

Lives and concrete are cheap I guess...

WB

It first hit a tree, then spun, flipped and hit a power pole which cut the bus into 2 pieces.

[animatic]

From the photo, the bus looks like it ran into a solid wall with those incredible damages. Yet it just ran into an electric pole. Just unbelievable that they put such solid constructions (made of concrete) next to the roads. They should of course have poles like in other countries that fall over easy, thus saving the lives of the people in the cars that eventually collide into such items.

Lives and concrete are cheap I guess...

WB

It first hit a tree, then spun, flipped and hit a power pole which cut the bus into 2 pieces.

That's not what the pictures show.

A front end bashed to hell and buckled frame pushed backl by the impact.

Looks like head on with something very solid, and then maybe a spin.

No "...cut in 2 pieces." is at all apparent.

Edited July 4, 2012 by animatic

[jackinbkk]

It is worrying hearing about how many of the drivers are driving tired. The roads also turning like ice rinks once there is a down pour doesn't help. The hill down to Patong is deadly once wet. All the oil in the dirt gets released onto the road. There were always spin outs. This added to the lack of maintenance on many vehicles doesn't help. From the bus trips i've been on they do often drive like they are trying to set a new PB for time.

[PoodMaiDai]

I just read the article in the Thai Daily Newspaper and they have a witness that reported that several foriegners approached the driver and insist that he slow down but the driver refused to listen to them. Massive D'head.

They didn't understand Thainess.

[longtom]

Yes. I just read the article in the Thai Daily Newspaper and they have a witness that reported that several foriegners approached the driver and insist that he slow down but the driver refused to listen to them. Massive D'head.

They are also reporting financial compensation of 700000 baht to the families of each of the deceased. For what it is worth.

If that is true (farangs complaining about the speeding driver) it must be said that this would be very untypical for this company, '999' buses are generally regarded as the safest to take between Bangkok and the islands. They have 2 drivers for the 12 hour journey and are usually not speeding. You cannot compare them to the crazy minibus drivers or many of the other bus companies in Thailand, most of which I would never use.

[theblether]

Out of respect for the dead we must demand that a thorough investigation is carried out.

Out of respect for the dead we must demand that vehicle maintenance in Thailand is vastly improved.

Out of respect for the dead we must demand that public service vehicle drivers are highly trained.

Out of respect for the dead we must demand that the Thai authorities crack down on anti-social driving.

If we don't do that, then there will be far more dead, far more people maimed, far more widows and orphans.

So for all those people on the other thread that said let's not turn this into Thai bashing........if this happened in our own countries our press, our people, and our authorities would be all over it in minute detail.

It's not Thai bashing, it's unacceptable practice bashing, and even if this accident was a simple unforseeable tyre burst, it's better for everybody that the Thai authorities investigate it and learn the lessons from it the same way our authorities would.

RIP to the victims, the best tribute would be to work hard to prevent it from happening again, not by becoming Thai apologists.

That helps no one........least of all Thailand.

Thats a lot of demands and the end result is a lot of promises and no action....I agree entirely with what you say and also the necessity to make these demands but cant help feeling that in reality it simply is a total waste of time, not that I can offer a better siolution

On more than one occassion have I asked a taxi or tour bus to stop becaue I have felt unsafe due to reckless driving. Its a fact of life in this country and changing the mentlity of the average driver is process that will take decades of education and strict enforcement of traffic laws.,something that I dont think the governhment or authorities have any serious interest or motiovation to regulate or control.

Whereas in a more develoiped country it is quite possible for the average citizen to affect change and force higher standards on operaters throiugh selective use, that is something unlikely to happen here.

Personally I believe that this kind of traagedy and uneccesssary loss of life is not something that will end any time soon. I dont see in reality where a real and lasting solution will come from, not in the next 10 years or so anyway.

I think it is up to the individual to be very selective about the transport they use and when you dont feel safe get off, its not worth your life.

I totally agree with you, I now refuse to use buses in Thailand, full stop.

I had a terrifying experience traveling from Chiang Rai to Chiang Mai, and I will not put myself at the mercy of these psychotic bus drivers ever again. No chance.

[theblether]

Out of respect for the dead we must demand that a thorough investigation is carried out.

Out of respect for the dead we must demand that vehicle maintenance in Thailand is vastly improved.

Out of respect for the dead we must demand that public service vehicle drivers are highly trained.

Out of respect for the dead we must demand that the Thai authorities crack down on anti-social driving.

If we don't do that, then there will be far more dead, far more people maimed, far more widows and orphans.

So for all those people on the other thread that said let's not turn this into Thai bashing........if this happened in our own countries our press, our people, and our authorities would be all over it in minute detail.

It's not Thai bashing, it's unacceptable practice bashing, and even if this accident was a simple unforseeable tyre burst, it's better for everybody that the Thai authorities investigate it and learn the lessons from it the same way our authorities would.

RIP to the victims, the best tribute would be to work hard to prevent it from happening again, not by becoming Thai apologists.

That helps no one........least of all Thailand.

You know posting demands via TV will make no difference whatsoever. TV is useful forum to provide information, warning, concerns and frustration, but to repeat will not make any difference to practices in this country. If people wish to try and influence safety considerations in Thailand, the only way to be heard is to write/email respective embassies.

So go ahead and email your embassy, I'll do it now too.

[kirk0233]

The country needs to get serious about education; not gimmicks like computer tablets that will never be used for no more than one or two years and then abandoned. I am suggesting that driver education should be adpoted in Thai schools. No schooling is presently involved in the education of drivers in Thailand. They learn from a relative or friend who teaches them bad habits. Thais I have known don't even know how to dim or brighten the headlights in their car.

[jaywalker]

I just saw the tv reports of this one, if they're to be believed there was at least one passenger who tried to reason with the (speeding) driver and was told to shut up or get off.

I have noticed the past few trips on the bus rides between Pattaya and Bangkok return that the bus drivers drive noticeably slower than in the past. So slow in fact that I almost thought the bus had some kind of engine trouble and we would shortly be coming to a stop. In any case, this has new "slow-speed" driving policy has been in force on each trip I've taken for the past several months. I surmise that possibly the buses have been fitted with GPS tracking devices and the central office can now monitor the speed of the buses.

I do feel safer now and it has not added any time to the trip at 2 hours (but it's no longer sometimes 1.5 hours).

I did a few trips Pattaya - Mo Chit recently & I was wondering if the bus was going to make it. The engine sounded horribly restricted. I just figured it was a typical piece of junk, but maybe they have actually put governors on the engines????

It took a little longer than the normal 2 hours (maybe Eckamai is still 2 hrs), but it was a safe, slow ride.

[Payboy]

The officials said they would also ensure that the dead foreigners' bodies would be sent back to their relatives in their countries.

Wow, thanks for that !

[Ludacris]

It's sickening to read about someone possibly asking the driver to slow down.

I did that once to a minivan driver and he mocked me the rest of the way. It was obvious as soon as the minivan pulled out of Victory Monument that the driver thought he was on a race track. After locking the brakes up twice at over 140 km/h on the freeway to avoid rear-ending other vehicles that changed into our lane, and almost rolling the van during another manuever, I finally asked him in Thai slow down. He started insulting me and mocking me to all the other passengers - "Falang scared", etc., and this continued for over an hour until we reached our destination. He was angry and his driving got worse and he started taking even more chances. I cannot describe how scared I was for the rest of that trip and that was the last time I will ever take public transport in Thailand . The sad thing is that it's this type of attitude amongst "professional" drivers here that often leads to these types of accidents. And this attitude is something that will be very very slow to change, regardless of whatever rules are enforced and how much carnage there is on the roads here.

After that incident I started using car hires I found on the internet for trips. I'd rather pay the extra money and get there safely. I've had very good luck with the drivers. It almost seems that the drivers who work for the companies that target foreigners already know the type of driving that we expect. For example, never going over 110 km/h, slowing down when it's raining or the roads are wet, not cutting lanes while going around a corner -basically normal driving behaviour that's so hard to find here.

[ttelise]

Yes. I just read the article in the Thai Daily Newspaper and they have a witness that reported that several foriegners approached the driver and insist that he slow down but the driver refused to listen to them. Massive D'head.

They are also reporting financial compensation of 700000 baht to the families of each of the deceased. For what it is worth.

700k baht. That is pitiful. Those not deceased also deserve way more as they may likely be unable to work, have on going medical needs, rehabilitation and be unable to enjoy life for a while depending on nature of injuries. I guess this is what to expect when injured in a third world dump, but one could be hopeful Thailand is some what better.

[samsiam]

Not sure about anybody else....but I think in this day and age.....people should be able to take some control and responsibility for themselves......there are reports of enough people on board, both foreign and Thai, that is was speeding and driving dangerously.....apparently people asked the driver to slow down...they were told to <deleted> basically..or get off.....Why did they not ask to get off and when the bus stopped....take the keys or prevent him from continuing in whatever way.

If he would not stop....a fire in the back seat....not really, but report it to him perhaps or any such out of the box thinking to make him stop....and they would all be alive now.

I have done this with a taxi driver a few times now before I had a car myself...also a minivan driver and another time I offered to drive because he was falling asleep....got out of a few taxis also for same reasons.

I know it is easy to say....but the people on board should take action to secure their own lives.

Look at the Chinese passengers that recently over powered and beat to death some hijackers.....all those passengers are alive now.

[swillowbee]

I just do get it....when oh when ill decent toursist stop coming to Thailand. There is nothing here anymore compared to new alternative destinations and the peopl in the tourists trade be it the owners of hotels, the management, the tour groups, the tourists attractions owners, restaurants, etc are not the least genuinely interested in the welfare of tourists but only about their own pockets......thai style!

You're obviously speaking for every tour operator, hotel, restaurant, attraction right? You were after all voted to be the spokesman, right? You know nothing of what your write so keep your thoughts to yourself. Andy byt the way, some of the keys on your keyboard obviously aren't working correctly - but as you're a farang and as this is Thailand, there's a conspiracy, right?

This is terrible news and my deepest condolences go to those who suffered with this event, but just because it happened in Thailand doesn't mean it to be negligent manslaughter. There could be several reasons why it happened. I agree totally with the first post in this series, there must be a genuine and independent investigation that we all hope will lead to stricter and enforced safety measures.

.

... SICA ... while Jaivin211 does sound a bit unrealistic, you must admit that your call for a genuine and independent investigation in Thailand is equally just as unrealistic ... the only way that is likely is if it is performed by a foreign team.

... our expectations are of standards of civil behavior of which the Thai culture is still incapable.

... after 12+ years here, I have no more hope ... only after 2-3 generations of concerted efforts might such behaviors be possible ... the operative words there being, "concerted effort" ... (resist change, being another Thai cultural value) ... until a person comes to terms with what Thailand really is, resisting outrage to the daily parade of Thai moronic behaviors is difficult for civil society.

Edited July 4, 2012 by swillowbee

[Lickey]

Just to pass on a bit of info about tyre pressures, depending on the weight of the bus, 100/105 PSI front and the rear dual tyres, 90/95PSI each,

As i wrote in the previous thread, i really think it was a loose wheel, to viabrate the bus for 1.5 hours before the finale, cos it looks like just a brake drum on the left side, no rim or tyre pieces left, ok, perhaps the pic wasnt so good, so its possible the tyre started to bulge [for various reasons like poor quality,under/over inflated,worn out, re-cut too deep exposing wires in casing,]causing the vibes and passengers complaining, finnally resulting in the blowout or wheel loss??

Some months ago, a big Mitubushi badged double decked tour bus stopped outside our place[we live opposite a very nice Buddha temple] 30 odd thais got off and went into the temple, i was casting my eye over this pretty looking bus with the music going, the right side front wheel had two broken studs next to each other, and the broken studs had been painted over with the rest of the rim, i wish i had my camera handy!!!!!

[dingdang]

its strange, that none of the two other bus company employees said anything to the driver about that driving style and the shaking and vibration of the bus... there were 3 employees on board...

Edited July 4, 2012 by dingdang

[bangkokbruce]

I just do get it....when oh when ill decent toursist stop coming to Thailand. There is nothing here anymore compared to new alternative destinations and the peopl in the tourists trade be it the owners of hotels, the management, the tour groups, the tourists attractions owners, restaurants, etc are not the least genuinely interested in the welfare of tourists but only about their own pockets......thai style!

You're obviously speaking for every tour operator, hotel, restaurant, attraction right? You were after all voted to be the spokesman, right? You know nothing of what your write so keep your thoughts to yourself. Andy byt the way, some of the keys on your keyboard obviously aren't working correctly - but as you're a farang and as this is Thailand, there's a conspiracy, right?

This is terrible news and my deepest condolences go to those who suffered with this event, but just because it happened in Thailand doesn't mean it to be negligent manslaughter. There could be several reasons why it happened. I agree totally with the first post in this series, there must be a genuine and independent investigation that we all hope will lead to stricter and enforced safety measures.

As a tour operator in Thailand since 1973 we finally pulled out of the Thai market due to our efforts to improve safety going no where. We have written several letters to the bus companies as well as the Ministry of Transportation for years and rarely got a response. It doesn't matter if your Thai or a foreigner, you should be able to trust the driver and the bus company for a safe ride. But many drivers are on yaba and Red Bull M150 and never get drug tested. The Thai government puts more emphasis on Immigration police drug testing tourists than they do on drug testing the very people we entrust in getting us to our destinations safely. This includes bus drivers both inter-city and long haul, BTS, MRT, taxi drivers, and motorcycle taxi drivers. You can write, demand, and boycott all you want but it will be on deaf ears as the Thai government just doesnt care. You have no rights here even though you pay taxes and will continually be mocked and made fun of as you are only looked at as a walking ATM machine. Thainess is all about the greed and lust for money. Many people rely on these buses to visit family with their children on board. Many foreigners rely on these buses for visa runs. Even if you never use them you are at risk of them hitting you when they are on the effects of yaba and multiple bottles of M150. Welcome to Thailand

[dingdang]

you dont run up a kerb just so... you really have to "target" it...

imo, a burst tyre doesnt make you run up it and get airborne...

the other way round is more plausible: drive on the kerb, the tyre bursts, and you are - with or without blown tyre - airborne...and thats what the passenger described... a loud crash (running up the kerb, its really LOUD) and then being airborne...

and i can confirm this 100%:

i once run up a kerb with maybe 70-80 km/h, and from the noise i thought the car is completely done... it feels as if you are really high up in the air...

Edited July 4, 2012 by dingdang