Thai Court Verdict 'May Spark More Violence'

[h90]

I think it's fairly simple. The 1997 constitution was deemed fair the 2007 constitution deemed unfair. Go back to the 1997 constitution until Thailand settles down and actually work for the good of ALL the country. Then and only then consider IF any amendments need to be made.

Thaksin in the mean time is welcome to come back and negotiate his way out of prison same as all the rich people do (wether they are red,yellow, blue or pink with white spots.)

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect App

The 1997 constitution had no public referendum and its "advantage" is that there are less check and balances....

Go back would be OK, if they hold a public referendum

[bigbamboo]

So PT wants politicians to be above the law then. Isn't that why we had a coup in the first place?

[whybother]

I think it's fairly simple. The 1997 constitution was deemed fair the 2007 constitution deemed unfair. Go back to the 1997 constitution until Thailand settles down and actually work for the good of ALL the country. Then and only then consider IF any amendments need to be made.

Thaksin in the mean time is welcome to come back and negotiate his way out of prison same as all the rich people do (wether they are red,yellow, blue or pink with white spots.)

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect App

The 1997 constitution had no public referendum and its "advantage" is that there are less check and balances....

Go back would be OK, if they hold a public referendum

Thanks for that. I always assumed the "People's Constitution" was voted for by a referendum.

[ogb]

Saw the intimidating red mob outside the constitution court on TV last evening, was amused to see in the background the lot in their commy uniforms complete with Mao caps, red arm bands and red shirt cards. Shows what their politics really are.

Those red army guards were not redshirts - they were apparently there to 'protect' the constitution court in its quest to overule democracy.

(so I'd be surprised if even they knew what their politics were

[tragickingdom]

Only in banana republics the judiciary can check a law on forehand without knowing precisely what will be in a law. Imagine when a new law will be prepared that will restructure the courts, everybody will be in jail and only the Democrat party will be allowed to run for elections, which is by the way the only possible way to win an election for them.

[daninthai]

In a democracy there is no place for violence, people who make this threat then do not like democracy. They only pretend they like democracy. If violence is done due to a court or any law decision then the violators need to be punished. But I have seen many times that this is not true in Thailand. So as they say talk is cheap and there is no democracy in Thailand

Some reporter has written 'may spark violence', on the other hand it might not.

You are right though about there being no democracy in Thailand, the army see to that and are forever lurking ready to take over at the drop of a hat.

Lots of hats have been dropped over the past 2,118 days without a takeover.

One coup is one too many in a democratic system.

We both know the army will do it when there is something in it for them, public opinion and overseas opinion is against it right now, but the army will ignore that when there is something in it for them.

good attempt though at pettiness and counting days well done you, you even manged to post without a link to a newspaper article, a link to another thai visa thread, or a complaint to the mods

Are you saying that you can't think of any situation where a coup would be a good thing?

If only the German army had taken control of that country after the Nazi party was democratically elected.

[Cardiff1963]

Can any one advise/point to institutions that can help these clowns to learn how politics works

[carra]

So then, it's at least somewhat reassuring that over the past 2,118 days, there's been "nothing in it" for the Army.

It's too bad if you think posted supporting information or background information or updated news clippings to the news clipping forum is something you find objectionable.

But with as much history revisionism that is attempted here, I can understand your disdain.

How would you know if I made a complaint to the mods? Besides, aren't they entirely capable of making their own decisions? If you have a problem with the rules or moderation, rather than discuss it here, PM them.... as they've directed forum members to do so countless times.

The numbered days was not petty, it was just a reflection to put the tone of your comments in proper perspective. It's akin to the shrill of Jatuporn's voice chanting coup coup "at the drop of a hat" and which has failed to materialize despite it always being right around the proverbial corner.

.

Where is that broken record smiley

[carra]

In a democracy there is no place for violence, people who make this threat then do not like democracy. They only pretend they like democracy. If violence is done due to a court or any law decision then the violators need to be punished. But I have seen many times that this is not true in Thailand. So as they say talk is cheap and there is no democracy in Thailand

Some reporter has written 'may spark violence', on the other hand it might not.

You are right though about there being no democracy in Thailand, the army see to that and are forever lurking ready to take over at the drop of a hat.

PTP has proven there's no democracy. Polls say the public doesn't really want a charter change. Seems PTP, oops, Thaksin, doesn't care. No democracy for sure.

you mean the democratically elected govt doesn't want democracy?

Can you link to these polls, we all know polls can say what we want them to say

[carra]

Are you saying that you can't think of any situation where a coup would be a good thing?

If only the German army had taken control of that country after the Nazi party was democratically elected.

are you comparing PTP to the nazis?

My comment that a coup is never good in a democratic country stands firm, or you do not have a functional democracy, this is not condoning nazi germany before anyone hard of thinking tries to suggest that.

[khunken]

Only in banana republics the judiciary can check a law on forehand without knowing precisely what will be in a law. Imagine when a new law will be prepared that will restructure the courts, everybody will be in jail and only the Democrat party will be allowed to run for elections, which is by the way the only possible way to win an election for them.

Absolute rubbish. The Constitutional Court is involved because the issue is proposed amendment of the constitution not just a law. No one (except Thaksin probably) knows what they are trying to change - that's problem number one. PTP have flip-flopped between re-writing the whole constitution and amending it - problem number two.

As the current constitution was agreed by a referendum (unlike any of its predecessors), any proposed amendment(s) should be put to the Thai people or, even better, they should be asked whether they want any amendments at all.

[carra]

I see from the news thread three of these judges are trying to jump ship, weird that eh?

[carra]

Only in banana republics the judiciary can check a law on forehand without knowing precisely what will be in a law. Imagine when a new law will be prepared that will restructure the courts, everybody will be in jail and only the Democrat party will be allowed to run for elections, which is by the way the only possible way to win an election for them.

Absolute rubbish. The Constitutional Court is involved because the issue is proposed amendment of the constitution not just a law. No one (except Thaksin probably) knows what they are trying to change - that's problem number one. PTP have flip-flopped between re-writing the whole constitution and amending it - problem number two.

As the current constitution was agreed by a referendum (unlike any of its predecessors), any proposed amendment(s) should be put to the Thai people or, even better, they should be asked whether they want any amendments at all.

yes they could have done what the army did and told the people to accept it or suffer worse, the army said accept the charter changes or we wont return the country to the people.

[whybother]

I see from the news thread three of these judges are trying to jump ship, weird that eh?

Given that their addresses and phone numbers have been given out to the red shirts, it's not surprising at all.

[Reasonableman]

Only in banana republics the judiciary can check a law on forehand without knowing precisely what will be in a law. Imagine when a new law will be prepared that will restructure the courts, everybody will be in jail and only the Democrat party will be allowed to run for elections, which is by the way the only possible way to win an election for them.

[khunken]

Only in banana republics the judiciary can check a law on forehand without knowing precisely what will be in a law. Imagine when a new law will be prepared that will restructure the courts, everybody will be in jail and only the Democrat party will be allowed to run for elections, which is by the way the only possible way to win an election for them.

Absolute rubbish. The Constitutional Court is involved because the issue is proposed amendment of the constitution not just a law. No one (except Thaksin probably) knows what they are trying to change - that's problem number one. PTP have flip-flopped between re-writing the whole constitution and amending it - problem number two.

As the current constitution was agreed by a referendum (unlike any of its predecessors), any proposed amendment(s) should be put to the Thai people or, even better, they should be asked whether they want any amendments at all.

yes they could have done what the army did and told the people to accept it or suffer worse, the army said accept the charter changes or we wont return the country to the people.

More rubbish. The army said no such thing. What the appointed government (not the army) said was, if the new constitution was rejected, the country would return to the 1997 constitution.

[carra]

I see from the news thread three of these judges are trying to jump ship, weird that eh?

Given that their addresses and phone numbers have been given out to the red shirts, it's not surprising at all.

do you have a link to show its actually these three judges? Also if that was the reason I am sure they would say that is the reason rather than give the reason they have given, are you saying the judges are lying?

[carra]

Only in banana republics the judiciary can check a law on forehand without knowing precisely what will be in a law. Imagine when a new law will be prepared that will restructure the courts, everybody will be in jail and only the Democrat party will be allowed to run for elections, which is by the way the only possible way to win an election for them.

Absolute rubbish. The Constitutional Court is involved because the issue is proposed amendment of the constitution not just a law. No one (except Thaksin probably) knows what they are trying to change - that's problem number one. PTP have flip-flopped between re-writing the whole constitution and amending it - problem number two.

As the current constitution was agreed by a referendum (unlike any of its predecessors), any proposed amendment(s) should be put to the Thai people or, even better, they should be asked whether they want any amendments at all.

yes they could have done what the army did and told the people to accept it or suffer worse, the army said accept the charter changes or we wont return the country to the people.

More rubbish. The army said no such thing. What the appointed government (not the army) said was, if the new constitution was rejected, the country would return to the 1997 constitution.

I think you need to check again

[whybother]

I see from the news thread three of these judges are trying to jump ship, weird that eh?

Given that their addresses and phone numbers have been given out to the red shirts, it's not surprising at all.

do you have a link to show its actually these three judges? Also if that was the reason I am sure they would say that is the reason rather than give the reason they have given, are you saying the judges are lying?

[Kilgore Trout]

In a democracy there is no place for violence

Not according to Jefferson:

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

-- Thomas Jefferson

[carra]

if the referendum for the constitution written by a military appointed body was rejected then a democratic election would be delayed, delayed until it was accepted.

people had no choice but to accept it or there would be no election, there was no return to the 1997 constitution, that was never an option

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6568767.stm

[Yunla]

Saw the intimidating red mob outside the constitution court on TV last evening, was amused to see in the background the lot in their commy uniforms complete with Mao caps, red arm bands and red shirt cards. Shows what their politics really are.

They are the new 'Loyalty Enhancement Officers'. To make sure everyone is carrying the 'little red book' and the photograph of the Chairman and his most excellant sister. The photo of him giving her a really energetic Heimlich maneuver.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Yunla

[whybother]

if the referendum for the constitution written by a military appointed body was rejected then a democratic election would be delayed, delayed until it was accepted.

people had no choice but to accept it or there would be no election, there was no return to the 1997 constitution, that was never an option

http://news.bbc.co.u...fic/6568767.stm

How can they have an election if there is no constitution?

[carra]

if the referendum for the constitution written by a military appointed body was rejected then a democratic election would be delayed, delayed until it was accepted.

people had no choice but to accept it or there would be no election, there was no return to the 1997 constitution, that was never an option

http://news.bbc.co.u...fic/6568767.stm

How can they have an election if there is no constitution?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Constitution_of_Thailand

wow two links in tow posts, I am turning into busholz.

The answer to your question would have been to have a fairer constitution to vote on, or a better alternative, but you know that already.

the link is for anyone that does not understand how the 2007 constitution came about and the objections to it, please read it and understand it.

I guess we are off topic now, a favourite ploy of the forum yellows, derail the conversation away from the facts

[Yunla]

I guess we are off topic now, a favourite ploy of the forum yellows, derail the conversation away from the facts

The Democrats do that in parliament too, asking questions and debating things. Slows the whole thing down and stops the PTP from achieving its selfless humanitarian goals as quickly as they would like to. Those awkward pesky yellow democrat questions, how much simpler if we could just do away with debate and other parties altogether. One party is so much simpler, so much cleaner isn't it. So minimalist and elegant.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Yunla

[MAJIC]

One of my issues with the current charter is that the junta built in a control mechanism to make the judiciary more useful and controllable in running the country outside of the power of an elected government.

In regards to the very logical first reply to the OP:

If someone wants the constitution changed, define which part they want changed, define what they want to change it to

Which article(s) of the Constitution are you referring to and what would you, or the PTP, propose it be changed to?

.

Of course they are unlikely to define what they want changed in the Constitution,it would make it obvious that it's all about getting Thaksin off the hook,and back home,sqeaky clean,with no charges to answer to,and not much else!

Edited July 6, 2012 by MAJIC

[lovetotravel]

Here's the poll that was done:

[animatic]

Saw the intimidating red mob outside the constitution court on TV last evening, was amused to see in the background the lot in their commy uniforms complete with Mao caps, red arm bands and red shirt cards. Shows what their politics really are.

There is no way anyone should be above the courts for indeed that puts them above the law of the country.

Even the elites like Thaksin, his family and his selected MP's must answer to the law.

Well therein lies the rub, all elites old or new are used to not worrying about the law.

But the selfmade man sort is less inclined to adhere,

because of the hard scrabble nature of their self-making.

Neuvaux riche tend to be so driven to suplant the old guard, any way they can,

that cutting corners to success is a necessary evil means to that end.

Those with megalomaniacal tendencies all the more so.

"It is rather ironic to see the uber rich capitalist using,

the neo-red guard modern communista leadership,

as a tool to supplant an age old leadership,

with his own eminence front."

It would be droll if so much didn't waver on the line.

Edited July 6, 2012 by animatic

[whybother]

if the referendum for the constitution written by a military appointed body was rejected then a democratic election would be delayed, delayed until it was accepted.

people had no choice but to accept it or there would be no election, there was no return to the 1997 constitution, that was never an option

http://news.bbc.co.u...fic/6568767.stm

How can they have an election if there is no constitution?

http://en.wikipedia....ion_of_Thailand

wow two links in tow posts, I am turning into busholz.

The answer to your question would have been to have a fairer constitution to vote on, or a better alternative, but you know that already.

the link is for anyone that does not understand how the 2007 constitution came about and the objections to it, please read it and understand it.

I guess we are off topic now, a favourite ploy of the forum yellows, derail the conversation away from the facts

Not everyone is going to agree with everything.

In this case, the people decided it was OK, or it was better than waiting for an alternative. That I do know.

[animatic]

Saw the intimidating red mob outside the constitution court on TV last evening, was amused to see in the background the lot in their commy uniforms complete with Mao caps, red arm bands and red shirt cards. Shows what their politics really are.

They are the new 'Loyalty Enhancement Officers'. To make sure everyone is carrying the 'little red book' and the photograph of the Chairman and his most excellant sister. The photo of him giving her a really energetic Heimlich maneuver.

Ah yes.

In the new millenium the Gang Of Four will wear Prada!