Good American Pizza In Thailand

[Ulysses G.]

Italian pizza and American pizza are very different, and a good American pizza is far superior because of the taste and texture of the crust.

Where can I get a good one in Thailand?

Edited January 12, 2006 by Ulysses G.

[davethailand]

Italian pizza rules.

[Florin]

I suggested a place in the previous thread - Ronny's New York Pizza in Nana. Great stuff!

[Sheryl]

Italian pizza rules.

Beg to differ -- NEW YORK Pizze rules.

As I understand, pizza was actually invented in NY by Italian immigrants. There was/is a somewhat similiar Italian dish (bruschetta or foccia-something or other, I forget which) from which it is descended. They way I got the story, growing up in NY, was that in Italy there are long lunch breaks and people went home to eat, but once in NY the men were working long hours and had to eat quickly on the job, so the wives came up with pizza, which is much more substantial than its bread with a little sauce & cheese predecessors since it was meant to serve as a complete meal.

Anyhow -- us native New Yorkers consider pizza to be native cuisine. Unfortunately it is not possible to get 100% New York pizza outside of NY because apparently the NYC water is essential to the flavor of the dough (same story with bagels). Even a NY chef using the same ingrediants but in a different state can't do it. I recall talk of actually importing NYC tap water to try to rectify this problem in parts of the US with a large NY expat community, but of course cost would be considerable.

Anyhow -- forgetting the water problem -- where can one come as close as possible to NEW YORK pizza here? Ronnie's? (where on Nana is it?) and 2 related questions:

- where, oh where, can one get a cannoli???

- what is it with the putting bechamel sauce in the lasagna? Even the supposedly authentic Italian places are doing it here. Lasagna should have mozzarella & ricotta. New York tradition but I also vetted it with an authentic Italian cookbook. Bechamel sauce isn't even Italian, it's French and IMHO anyplace that puts it into a dish they then call lasagna should be fined and forever barred from running an Italian restaurant!

[Florin]

Italian pizza rules.

Anyhow -- forgetting the water problem -- where can one come as close as possible to NEW YORK pizza here? Ronnie's? (where on Nana is it?)

Ronnie's is on Nana Soi 4 (or 3, I always mix them up...the one with all the girlie bars), just a short walk down the soi, it's on a street corner, can't really be missed, opposite the Brunswick Pool Hall.

And I agree, having previously lived in NYC, this kind of pizza is much better than the Italian one, the crust especially is much tastier

Edited January 12, 2006 by Florin

[Ice Maiden]

I suggested a place in the previous thread - Ronny's New York Pizza in Nana. Great stuff!

Off topic but oooh an Offspring fan!

Always not really cared about pizza just as long as it is pepperoni, yummy!

[Florin]

MAJOR Offspring fan, actually.

Pepperoni's nice, but it doesn't beat a smelly, salty anchovy

[Ice Maiden]

MAJOR Offspring fan, actually.

Pepperoni's nice, but it doesn't beat a smelly, salty anchovy

I love Offsprings older stuff but I have to say the album "Splinter" just blew me away.

Anchovy

[sabaijai]

Italian pizza rules.

As I understand, pizza was actually invented in NY by Italian immigrants.

- what is it with the putting bechamel sauce in the lasagna? Even the supposedly authentic Italian places are doing it here. Lasagna should have mozzarella & ricotta. New York tradition but I also vetted it with an authentic Italian cookbook. Bechamel sauce isn't even Italian, it's French and IMHO anyplace that puts it into a dish they then call lasagna should be fined and forever barred from running an Italian restaurant!

Pizza history:

Ancient Greeks ate a flat, baked bread with assorted toppings called plankuntos. This flatbread may have been a derivative of something Babylonians ate in earlier centuries.

While originally thought to be poisonous, Spaniards who had been to Mexico and Peru introduced the tomato to Italy in the 16th century.

The original mozzarella cheese was made from the milk of Indian water buffalo in the 7th century. It was introduced to Italy in the 18th century.

The world's first true pizzeria may have been "Antica Pizzeria Port'Alba" which opened in 1830 and is still in business today at Via Port'Alba 18 in Naples.

Italian and Greek peasants ate earlier forms of pizza for several centuries before it became a hit among aristocracy. In 1889, a Neapolitan named Rafaele Esposito prepared pizza for King Umberto I and Queen Margherita, who apparently loved it.

If you travel in Italy and suggest pizza was invented in NY, people will either 1) laugh or 2) beat you senseless. They'll admit it came from Greece first, but then of course what we think of as Italian culture today is largely Greek (in the same way modern Greek culture owes much to Turkey).

Lasagne/Lasagna

Lasagne with bechamel sauce is quite common in Italy, only they don't call it bechamel, rather besciamella. It's especially common in lasagne recipes that contain ham (probably the most popular in Italy, judging from my travels there at least) or pepperoni, probably to balance the saltiness of the meat. The dish is properly spelt 'lasagne' (referring to several sheets of the so-named pasta), not 'lasagna' (a single sheet).

In Italy you come across a variety of lasagne recipes. In Tuscany and Rome - arguably the two epicentres of Italian cuisine - it's typically made with besciamella/béchamel, bolognese sauce (tomatoes, beef or ham, garlic and wine), and grated Parmigiano. In Liguria (the coast around Genoa) they use Genovese pesto and in Calabria (the 'toe' of Italy) salted ricotta is a main ingredient (this one is similar to American lasagna).

My Italian friends living here in Thailand almost always make lasagne with the besciamella/bolognese recipe.

Pizza history 1

Pizza history 2

The lower class of the Naples, Italy is believed to have created pizza in a more familiar fashion. In the late 1800s a Italian baker named Raffaele Esposito, was believed to have created a dish for visiting royalty. According to the story, the Italian monarch King Umberto and his consort, Queen Margherita were touring the area. In order to impress them and to show his patriotic fervor Raffaele chose to top flat bread with food that would best represent the colors of Italy: red tomato, white mozzarella cheese and green basil. The king and queen were so impressed that word quickly reached the masses. The end results were that the dish was well received to the extent that others began to copy it.

an Italian recipe for lasagne:

• 1 kg di peperoni

• 1 cipolla di rossa

• 1 spicchio d'aglio

• olio evo

• 4 mozzarelle

• 1 cucchiaio di capperi salati

• 3 cucchiai di pane grattuggiato

• besciamella

• pasta pe lasagne q.b.

ricetta: Lasagne

besciamella

Amido's in Pai (Mae Hong Son) makes terrific lasagne with besciamella and young green peppercorns.

[ProfessorFart]

I have a pal who's from Chicago and he swears that Chicago has the best pizzas!

Very interesting post Sabaijai.

[Ice Maiden]

I used to make pretty nice pizzas at the shop I worked in, I was taught by an italian and everything

Getting the pizza dough right was the hardest thing. I thought my pizzas were at least edible anyway!

[sonic_11uk]

I have a few friends who work as chefs in different cities around the world.

My Italian buddy said that American style pizza is for barbarians!!! He said the crust/base isn't supposed to be thick. He made us some pizza with parma ham, mozarella and rocket leaves...beautiful! Also some pasta with juicy linguistines follwed by his tiramisu!

Another chef friend of mine who has travelled around a fair bit to study and sample different styles of cuisines explained that pizza might have been bought to Italy along with noodles by Marco Polo.

He said that in the north of China, the climate is cool so they can't have rice as much, eating wheat based foods instead. The poor people used to eat the leftovers from the previous nights dinner on top of bread for breakfast.

A few weeks ago, I popped into a Pizza Co and the GF ordered some kind of "Volcano pizza" monstrosity...there was pot of cooked pizza base in the centre of the Thai seafood pizza filled with boiling chilli sauce in it. Really horrible.

I occasionally have a slice on the go from the Spiccio branches in some BTS stations.

[markuk]

I have a few friends who work as chefs in different cities around the world.

My Italian buddy said that American style pizza is for barbarians!!! He said the crust/base isn't supposed to be thick. He made us some pizza with parma ham, mozarella and rocket leaves...beautiful! Also some pasta with juicy linguistines follwed by his tiramisu!

Another chef friend of mine who has travelled around a fair bit to study and sample different styles of cuisines explained that pizza might have been bought to Italy along with noodles by Marco Polo.

He said that in the north of China, the climate is cool so they can't have rice as much, eating wheat based foods instead. The poor people used to eat the leftovers from the previous nights dinner on top of bread for breakfast.

A few weeks ago, I popped into a Pizza Co and the GF ordered some kind of "Volcano pizza" monstrosity...there was pot of cooked pizza base in the centre of the Thai seafood pizza filled with boiling chilli sauce in it. Really horrible.

I occasionally have a slice on the go from the Spiccio branches in some BTS stations.

and whats wrong with pizza co?? haha!!

[Ulysses G.]

Pizza Hut is mostly for the homeless, people in a real hurry or children.

No one in American thinks of that as a good pizza, but foreigners have the idea that Pizza Hut is a typical American Pizza. I can assure you that no one over 15 gets together with friends to eat at Pizza Hut. They go somewhere GOOD!

Misinformed people who think that Pizza Hut is typical of the US are the only ones who would claim that Italian style is better. It is like a tasteless cracker covered with tomato sauce.

[sabaijai]

Pizza Hut is mostly for the homeless, people in a real hurry or children.

No one in American thinks of that as a good pizza, but foreigners have the idea that Pizza Hut is a typical American Pizza. I can assure you that no one over 15 gets together with friends to eat at Pizza Hut. They go somewhere GOOD!

Misinformed people who think that Pizza Hut is typical of the US are the only ones who would claim that Italian style is better. It is like a tasteless cracker covered with tomato sauce.

You have obviously never been to Italy, or at least never eaten pizza there. No resemblance to cracker crust.

Last year I ate pizza in the Piemonte, Liguria, and Tuscany regions of Italy, all delicious, always chewy, fragrant, fresh dough. Earlier in the year ate pizza in NY. Not that different really, in the good places in each country. I found the sauce was usually fresher in Italy. Many pizzerias in Italy are open for breakfast. A slice and an espresso, great way to greet the day.

Italians always say the best pizza is in Naples, but the best pizza I had in Italy was at a cafe in Rapallo. My favourite is a 50-year-old place in Orange, Provence, France.

[Ulysses G.]

I have never eaten pizza in Italy, but have a lot of Italian buddies from New York who visit the old country regularly. They all claim that pizza in Italy is second rate, and I have certainly never tasted an Italian pizza elsewhere that was up to much.

I guess I have to go find out for myself, but since we all agree that Italian pizza outside of Italy bites, where can I get a good American one in Thailand?

[Axel]

Guess, it is all a matter of taste. My Italian friends always wondr why somebody can eat a pizza as main-meal. In Italy it is a starter.

[Emilio]

Dont insult Italian Pizza by comparing it to an American Pizza. Its like saying, hey PAT THAI is ok but Italian PAT THAI is better......what a joke. Have u had a real pizza?

Let me tell you....when you go to Italy! You can only come and tell me you ate reall Italian when you go to TOSCANY. Thats the reall Italian food....the original.

If you want American Pizza...go PIZZA HUT!

[tavarich]

Dont insult Italian Pizza by comparing it to an American Pizza. Its like saying, hey PAT THAI is ok but Italian PAT THAI is better......what a joke. Have u had a real pizza?

Let me tell you....when you go to Italy! You can only come and tell me you ate reall Italian when you go to TOSCANY. Thats the reall Italian food....the original.

If you want American Pizza...go PIZZA HUT!

You are so wrong on so many levels, where to start. Lets see oh yea Pizza Company is much better

[Plus]

It's a strange idea - that Italian food cooked up in America is better than the original. If you think some people on Thaivisa might disagree, try telling Thais that tom yam in the US is tastier than in Bangkok. They'd think you are insane.

It might be true, however, that without New York tap water people can't bake proper New York pizzas.

It's a pity that the only place recommended is in Nana.

[Emilio]

He can go have American style Pizza either Pizza Company or Pizza Hut, I dont care!

Whatever he prefers...

Dont insult Italian Pizza by comparing it to an American Pizza. Its like saying, hey PAT THAI is ok but Italian PAT THAI is better......what a joke. Have u had a real pizza?

Let me tell you....when you go to Italy! You can only come and tell me you ate reall Italian when you go to TOSCANY. Thats the reall Italian food....the original.

If you want American Pizza...go PIZZA HUT!

You are so wrong on so many levels, where to start. Lets see oh yea Pizza Company is much better

[Ulysses G.]

I found out that it is impossible to get the correct flour combination to make New York style pizza crust in South East Asia. That is why American pizza crust in Thailand is almost as tasteless as the original in Italy and in "TOSCANY".

Real, New York pizza ROCKS!

[meadish_sweetball]

Swedish pizza is superior - but a well-kept secret to anyone who hasnt been there.

[Ulysses G.]

Swedish pizza is superior - but a well-kept secret to anyone who hasnt been there.

Where can we try it in Thailand?

[tutsiwarrior]

It's a strange idea - that Italian food cooked up in America is better than the original. If you think some people on Thaivisa might disagree, try telling Thais that tom yam in the US is tastier than in Bangkok. They'd think you are insane.

This is true...Thai food served up in the states or at a fancy restaurant in the Middle East I can eat. The slop that's served up in any bus station in Thailand I wouldn't give to a cat...

[kerryk]

He can go have American style Pizza either Pizza Company or Pizza Hut, I dont care!

Whatever he prefers...

Dont insult Italian Pizza by comparing it to an American Pizza. Its like saying, hey PAT THAI is ok but Italian PAT THAI is better......what a joke. Have u had a real pizza?

Let me tell you....when you go to Italy! You can only come and tell me you ate reall Italian when you go to TOSCANY. Thats the reall Italian food....the original.

If you want American Pizza...go PIZZA HUT!

You are so wrong on so many levels, where to start. Lets see oh yea Pizza Company is much better

There are actually four or five kinds of American Pizza. New York Style which is the closest to Italian if you leave off the meat, Chicago style which is Sicilian in origin and then the other cheap Pizza hut or Domino’s styles plus a lot of upscale restaurants serving pizza from wood fired ovens that have a variety of gourmet toppings. The Shaw of Iran used to have Pizza’s flown on his jet from Chicago to Iran. The two leading Sicilian Pizza places in Chicago used to be Uno’s and Duo’s respectively one and two of a restaurant chain that franchised a few years ago and now serve a less quality product than before they became big time. Sicilian pizza is deep dish and there are a lot of recipes for it on the net. Sicilian pizza of course was not invented in Italy. Some will say it was invented in New York but most agree it was Chicago. Italian pizza is not like Sicilian or New York Pizza. I have eaten pizza in Italy and it is lighter and not the same thing as American pizza although that is rapidly changing because Italians are adding more things to the toppings all the time. I don’t care for any of the chain pizza outlets in the States but individual restaurants do a good job. Only a few try and imitate Italian pizza although many are owned by Italians and learned the pizza making trade in Italy. I grew up in a Sicilian neighborhood and have eaten both home style Sicilian pizza and Chicago style restaurant pizza and they are not the same.

As to why Americans think they are pizza experts, Each man, woman and child in America eats and average of 46 slices, (23 pounds), of pizza per year and there are approximately 69,000 pizzerias in the United States or 17% of the restaurant business with countless more having pizza on the menu.

I think it is a misnomer to compare real American pizza to Pizza Hut because as a company they came along very late in the pizza game and just tried to copy the good pizzerias and do it for less cost with simpler instructions. The end result was of course bad pizza. Pizza hut did not start making pizza till 1958 and by then there were thousands of other restaurants making decent pizza.

[sbk]

So, shall we get back on topic? We all agree that Pizza Hut and Pizza co are not good pizza places.

Anyone know where to buy good American style Pizza in Bangkok regardless of your opinion on it?

[sabaijai]

Swedish pizza is superior - but a well-kept secret to anyone who hasnt been there.

Ulysses G won't like it, it's not American. Nothing to do with cuisine.

[Ulysses G.]

Swedish pizza is superior - but a well-kept secret to anyone who hasnt been there.

Ulysses G won't like it, it's not American. Nothing to do with cuisine.

I love the Beatles, The Stones, the Cure, Joy Division, Sisters of Mercy and lots of English music, Mexican food, Japanese food, Chinese food, Thai girls and lots of things that aren't American, but America has lots of great stuff too.

I give credit where credit is due.

Edited February 2, 2006 by Ulysses G.

[Sheryl]

There are actually four or five kinds of American Pizza. New York Style which is the closest to Italian if you leave off the meat, Chicago style which is Sicilian in origin and then the other cheap Pizza hut or Domino’s styles plus a lot of upscale restaurants serving pizza from wood fired ovens that have a variety of gourmet toppings.

there is also a Boston version, and a California one (of California Pizza fame). But most Americans recognize that New York pizza is the best for regular (non Sicilian) pizza and Chicago takes the prize for Sicilian. In fact, all over the US you will see places advertising "authentic New York Pizza"

As to why Americans think they are pizza experts, Each man, woman and child in America eats and average of 46 slices, (23 pounds), of pizza per year and there are approximately 69,000 pizzerias in the United States or 17% of the restaurant business with countless more having pizza on the menu.

I don't know where to get stats for NYC but it would be WAY higher. You can rarely walk a city block without passing a pizza parlor and it is a staple food there.

that said, I must sadly report that over the last decade or so the quality in NY has plummeted and the original version been sadly perverted....happened along with the shrinking to near extinction of Little Italy and gradual movement of Italian-Americans out of the city. . On my last visit I was truly horrified to see toppings such as broccoli and pineapple on the menu at ordinary hole-in-the wall NYC pizza places. Actually best place to get NY Pizza now seems to be New Jersey, Long Island and southern Florida, where all the former denizens of old Italian neighborhoods and their progeny have moved. Which still leaves open the question of where to get it (or the closest thing) in Bangkok....