tlansford Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I don't know what is your problem. It could lead to the dissolution ot the party. Dissolved and dissolution are about the same thing. But that isn't "the opposition calling for ..." is it? You're kidding right? probably not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 "Anyway off topic as the current government wasn't democratic elected." ?? One year ago as I recall. http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5476900 ?? what does that link mean?? On the last elections were massive vote buying, almost everywhere. That makes an election invalid. It can be discussed how the people might have voted without, but still this government wasn't elected by democratic means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 But the crux of the matter us that the court should not directly accept a petition. As bad as either side should be, despite how immoral, corrupt, dodgy or disingenuous anyone is, as far as I have read, listened, or tried to understand, the court had exceeded it's remit. I greatly wish that this isn't the case, but if they have, well what is the point in any constitution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 But the crux of the matter us that the court should not directly accept a petition. As bad as either side should be, despite how immoral, corrupt, dodgy or disingenuous anyone is, as far as I have read, listened, or tried to understand, the court had exceeded it's remit. I greatly wish that this isn't the case, but if they have, well what is the point in any constitution? "court should not directly accept a petition" is a matter of opinion rather than law. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) But the crux of the matter us that the court should not directly accept a petition. As bad as either side should be, despite how immoral, corrupt, dodgy or disingenuous anyone is, as far as I have read, listened, or tried to understand, the court had exceeded it's remit. I greatly wish that this isn't the case, but if they have, well what is the point in any constitution? "court should not directly accept a petition" is a matter of opinion rather than law. Well no one appears to be able to concisely show in what situations they can or cannot. So your p opinion is as good as mine. Evidently, they believe they can and a lot of people who read the constitutiom better than me and I presume possibly you are mightily pissed of that they jumped in There was a very good article in the other paper the other day, with law profs from all the decent unis, and not one could justify the courts actions. That should be enough for most, but TIT, and needs must, so we will sit and see tomorrow. Edited July 12, 2012 by Thai at Heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mca Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 "Anyway off topic as the current government wasn't democratic elected." ?? One year ago as I recall. http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5476900 ?? what does that link mean?? On the last elections were massive vote buying, almost everywhere. That makes an election invalid. It can be discussed how the people might have voted without, but still this government wasn't elected by democratic means. Why aren't the Dems shouting it from the rooftops then? Let's face it if a member of the government farted in public their spokesman would have something to say. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 "Anyway off topic as the current government wasn't democratic elected." ?? One year ago as I recall. http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5476900 ?? what does that link mean?? On the last elections were massive vote buying, almost everywhere. That makes an election invalid. It can be discussed how the people might have voted without, but still this government wasn't elected by democratic means. You're kidding too right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonableman Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 http://asiafoundation.org/in-asia/2011/07/13/thai-citizens-vigilant-observers-during-election-but-upholding-democracy-doesnt-stop-there/ "Things seemed to have gone relatively smoothly on voting day itself, though some maneuvering behind the scenes was undeniable. In addition to official party agents assigned to observe individual polling stations, vote canvassers were overtly mulling around some stations. They kept a close watch as voters entered and exited the polling stations and were within eyesight of the exit polling areas, usually set up within 300 meters of the polling station. This was evidently an intimidation factor among some local voters, which potentially tainted some of the exit poll results in these areas. Furthermore, in the days leading up to the election, numerous reports emerged of vote buying, manipulation, and mass mobilization of canvassers in provinces all over the country, from the upper North, areas of the Northeast, to the lower South. Parties desperate to hold onto their constituencies offered voters a minimum average of 300 THB ($10) per head to secure votes. Other forms of manipulation included mobilizing influential religious leaders, village heads, and local government officials to round up voters to secure votes for a particular political party. This has been common practice in Thailand for decades and will continue as long as money politics remains so strongly embedded in a flawed democracy. Though high voter turnout and vigilant citizen observers on election day are promising signs, it is time the Thai electorate realize that true democracy does not only mean being vigilant on election day. A citizen’s duty in upholding democracy does not end with the marking of a ballot at a polling station. Instead, citizens must realize that their role as critical observers continues long beyond election day. It is up to every citizen here to become true guardians of democracy to ensure that in the months and years to come those put to power on July 3 exercise that power selflessly and with the utmost integrity." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) http://asiafoundatio...snt-stop-there/ "Things seemed to have gone relatively smoothly on voting day itself, though some maneuvering behind the scenes was undeniable. In addition to official party agents assigned to observe individual polling stations, vote canvassers were overtly mulling around some stations. They kept a close watch as voters entered and exited the polling stations and were within eyesight of the exit polling areas, usually set up within 300 meters of the polling station. This was evidently an intimidation factor among some local voters, which potentially tainted some of the exit poll results in these areas. Furthermore, in the days leading up to the election, numerous reports emerged of vote buying, manipulation, and mass mobilization of canvassers in provinces all over the country, from the upper North, areas of the Northeast, to the lower South. Parties desperate to hold onto their constituencies offered voters a minimum average of 300 THB ($10) per head to secure votes. Other forms of manipulation included mobilizing influential religious leaders, village heads, and local government officials to round up voters to secure votes for a particular political party. This has been common practice in Thailand for decades and will continue as long as money politics remains so strongly embedded in a flawed democracy. Though high voter turnout and vigilant citizen observers on election day are promising signs, it is time the Thai electorate realize that true democracy does not only mean being vigilant on election day. A citizen’s duty in upholding democracy does not end with the marking of a ballot at a polling station. Instead, citizens must realize that their role as critical observers continues long beyond election day. It is up to every citizen here to become true guardians of democracy to ensure that in the months and years to come those put to power on July 3 exercise that power selflessly and with the utmost integrity." "It is up to every citizen here to become true guardians of democracy to ensure that in the months and years to come those put to power on July 3 exercise that power selflessly and with the utmost integrity." <snip> Edited July 13, 2012 by soundman No need to get aggressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlansford Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 "Anyway off topic as the current government wasn't democratic elected." ?? One year ago as I recall. http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5476900 ?? what does that link mean?? On the last elections were massive vote buying, almost everywhere. That makes an election invalid. It can be discussed how the people might have voted without, but still this government wasn't elected by democratic means. That link is to information from the election observers who noted that the election 'reflects the will of the people' which would seem to indicate that this government was indeed democratically elected and just repeating that they were not will not make your statement true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 "Anyway off topic as the current government wasn't democratic elected." ?? One year ago as I recall. http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5476900 ?? what does that link mean?? On the last elections were massive vote buying, almost everywhere. That makes an election invalid. It can be discussed how the people might have voted without, but still this government wasn't elected by democratic means. That link is to information from the election observers who noted that the election 'reflects the will of the people' which would seem to indicate that this government was indeed democratically elected and just repeating that they were not will not make your statement true. An election with everywhere vote buying isn't democratic, almost per definition. No matter what some obscure observer tell. How can they know the will of the people. Or maybe we save the costs for elections next time and just ask your observers about the will of the people? Or from the other side: why would Thaksin spend billions for vote buying if he could win the election without it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 "Anyway off topic as the current government wasn't democratic elected." ?? One year ago as I recall. http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5476900 ?? what does that link mean?? On the last elections were massive vote buying, almost everywhere. That makes an election invalid. It can be discussed how the people might have voted without, but still this government wasn't elected by democratic means. That link is to information from the election observers who noted that the election 'reflects the will of the people' which would seem to indicate that this government was indeed democratically elected and just repeating that they were not will not make your statement true. An election with everywhere vote buying isn't democratic, almost per definition. No matter what some obscure observer tell. How can they know the will of the people. Or maybe we save the costs for elections next time and just ask your observers about the will of the people? Or from the other side: why would Thaksin spend billions for vote buying if he could win the election without it? Vote buying = advertising. What's the difference. As long as both sides can advertise or buy votes then the process is democratic. Get used to it. The other side won. Sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 noticed a few military helicopters flying over pattaya this morning, a rare site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yunla Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) An election with everywhere vote buying isn't democratic, almost per definition. No matter what some obscure observer tell. How can they know the will of the people. Or maybe we save the costs for elections next time and just ask your observers about the will of the people? Or from the other side: why would Thaksin spend billions for vote buying if he could win the election without it? In Thailand money is an accepted substitute for 'face' in many quarters. Thaksin has less face than Darkman. So he just pays his voters with the same money he stole from the same voters years ago when he was PM. Sort of like recycling other peoples' money. He's doing it for the environment. Edited July 13, 2012 by Yunla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 noticed a few military helicopters flying over pattaya this morning, a rare site Did they have kids with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonableman Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) http://asiafoundatio...ng-in-thailand/ "Votes can also be bought with hard cash, paid in advance. The current rate ... starts at 300 baht (around $10) and goes up to as much as 3,000 baht ($100). In Thailand, this practice is as old as the electoral process itself and reaches a crescendo the night before an election or, as Thais call it, kheun maa hawn (the night of the howling dogs)." Edited July 13, 2012 by Reasonableman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 http://asiafoundatio...ng-in-thailand/ "Votes can also be bought with hard cash, paid in advance. The current rate ... starts at 300 baht (around $10) and goes up to as much as 3,000 baht ($100). In Thailand, this practice is as old as the electoral process itself and reaches a crescendo the night before an election or, as Thais call it, kheun maa hawn (the night of the howling dogs)." So? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonableman Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) http://asiafoundation.org/in-asia/2011/07/13/dark-reality-to-vote-buying-in-thailand/ "Another way for a party to increase its odds of winning is to conduct reverse vote buying. By purchasing the ID cards of voters who are confirmed supporters of a particular party, the buyer can count one less vote for its rivals, as citizens without a valid ID card are not allowed to vote." Edited July 13, 2012 by Reasonableman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 "Another way for a party to increase its odds of winning is to conduct reverse vote buying. By purchasing the ID cards of voters who are confirmed supporters of a particular party, the buyer can count one less vote for its rivals, as citizens without a valid ID card are not allowed to vote." So, this has what to do with the Thai court deferring the key ruling on PM party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Vote buying = advertising. What's the difference. As long as both sides can advertise or buy votes then the process is democratic. Get used to it. The other side won. Sorry about that. Get used to it ? It may have escaped you that lots of countries and organisations try to stamp out vote buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Vote buying = advertising. What's the difference. As long as both sides can advertise or buy votes then the process is democratic. Get used to it. The other side won. Sorry about that. Get used to it ? It may have escaped you that lots of countries and organisations try to stamp out vote buying. No not that. Get used to the other side won! I don't like vote buying either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moruya Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 "Anyway off topic as the current government wasn't democratic elected." ?? One year ago as I recall. http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5476900 ?? what does that link mean?? On the last elections were massive vote buying, almost everywhere. That makes an election invalid. It can be discussed how the people might have voted without, but still this government wasn't elected by democratic means. Why aren't the Dems shouting it from the rooftops then? Let's face it if a member of the government farted in public their spokesman would have something to say. They would say that it's far more intelligent than anythng else they have to say, and far more verbose than their leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moruya Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Vote buying = advertising. What's the difference. As long as both sides can advertise or buy votes then the process is democratic. Get used to it. The other side won. Sorry about that. Have you ever been for an IQ test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moruya Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Vote buying = advertising. What's the difference. As long as both sides can advertise or buy votes then the process is democratic. Get used to it. The other side won. Sorry about that. Get used to it ? It may have escaped you that lots of countries and organisations try to stamp out vote buying. No not that. Get used to the other side won! I don't like vote buying either. It's not the winning, it's the taking apart of democracy and Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonableman Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Vote buying = advertising. What's the difference. As long as both sides can advertise or buy votes then the process is democratic. Get used to it. The other side won. Sorry about that. Get used to it ? It may have escaped you that lots of countries and organisations try to stamp out vote buying. No not that. Get used to the other side won! I don't like vote buying either. Too late for retractions. You've made your poxy bed, now lie in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonableman Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) http://asiafoundation.org/in-asia/2011/07/13/dark-reality-to-vote-buying-in-thailand/ "The challenge with vote buying, though, is to ensure that voters who take your money will definitely vote for you once they’re inside the privacy of the polling booth. In previous elections, voters have been asked to photograph their marked ballots using mobile phone cameras but phones are now banned in polling stations. One method currently in use ... is to obtain a copy of the voter’s house registration certificate; many villagers I spoke with are unconvinced of the secrecy of their ballot and are afraid that canvassers can use their house registration to check who they voted for." Edited July 13, 2012 by Reasonableman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Vote buying = advertising. What's the difference. As long as both sides can advertise or buy votes then the process is democratic. Get used to it. The other side won. Sorry about that. Get used to it ? It may have escaped you that lots of countries and organisations try to stamp out vote buying. No not that. Get used to the other side won! I don't like vote buying either. It's not the winning, it's the taking apart of democracy and Thailand. And naturally these with the most funds win. Rule of the richest. Actually rule of the Elite, exactly what the red propaganda always wants to fight against. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Vote buying = advertising. What's the difference. As long as both sides can advertise or buy votes then the process is democratic. Get used to it. The other side won. Sorry about that. Have you ever been for an IQ test? I would like if "Kerryk" would also defend the Democrats if they pay everyone in Isaan 2000 Baht and move 10 % from PTP to the Democrats. Or if it would be OK if the Democrats pay every judge 100 Million to disband the PTP? Because that would be just "advertising". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moruya Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 noticed a few military helicopters flying over pattaya this morning, a rare site Did they have kids with them? Is this in some way adding to the debate? Or just another useless comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maidu Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 http://asiafoundatio...ng-in-thailand/ "The challenge with vote buying, though, is to ensure that voters who take your money will definitely vote for you once they’re inside the privacy of the polling booth. In previous elections, voters have been asked to photograph their marked ballots using mobile phone cameras but phones are now banned in polling stations. One method currently in use ... is to obtain a copy of the voter’s house registration certificate; many villagers I spoke with are unconvinced of the secrecy of their ballot and are afraid that canvassers can use their house registration to check who they voted for." Pu yai ban (village elders), among others, have ways to ensure that voters in their jurisdiction are voting the way they were paid to vote. An earlier post mentioned the Reds are protesting against the rich elite. What <deleted>. The Shinawatre is about as close to 'rich elite' as possible. What was in the 54 large overstuffed suitcases that Ms Pojamin (T's wife at the time) spirited out of Thailand, a week after the coup? Customs officials didn't check anything. If that's not an example of the ways of the rich elite, I don't what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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