Suvarnabhumi Airport Runway Crisis Deepens

[noitom]

It's amazing that the international airlines keep landing and taking off and no complaints or regulatory investigations are taking place.

[noitom]

One story among the headlines has the crisis deepening and another has the problem fixed. What a preposterous circus.

[waza]

another Thaksin legacy

[Tywais]

This is a result of building an airport on a swamp amongst a myriad of other matters..

Utapao was built on a swamp. I was there during its construction and saw regular demolition of the mountain to supply the stone fill. Haven't heard they had a problem so it can be done right. Nearly forgot, the US built that runway.

[Rimmer]

A post in non standard fonts has been removed, it was also incorrectly formatted to reflect a quoted reply.

Please use the quote function when quoting another member.

[grantbkk]

Its obviously not easy with the type of ground and flooding too.

But I suspect that fund mismanagement and corruption by Thaksin is the reason we have these problems in such frequency and severity. Its sort of ironic and also a sad indictment of anti-DP rhetoric, that people are so quick to talk-up the short 'airport seige' by PAD as being a huge blow to the airport functioning as a profitable entity, and the siege's impact on tourist confidence, when in fact the protesters were there for eight days, insignificant compared to all the closure and delays for reparations caused by mismanagement during construction, and PAD were protesting to remove Thaksin's corrupt regime, the very same regime who had robbed money from the construction of the same airport and led to it being an ongoing safety concern years later.

Dangerous runways discourages tourism far worse than eight days peaceful sit-down protest does. It also had over 60 structural faults when it was first opened over a year late, coupled with the flawed runways it doesn't inspire confidence at all.

If it is true that nepotism rather than construction safety-standards determined who Thaksin gave the contracts to, and the money was indeed spent on things other than the airport, then this should be investigated by the current PM, his sister.

Agreed. What will happen if "Swampy" looses the standard of an International Airport. Back to DM then?

The airport has never been certified except for a six month temporary certificate that was issued be the local aviation ministry for testing back in 2006. The airport, especially the electronics, backups and safety, will never meet international standards and will never receive international certification. The official Thai attitude is if you do not want to use the airport, don't. It is an economic reality for the airlines and everyone is hoping for the best. Everyone just assumes that the airport has proper certification. In reality no one is working towards getting it officially certified.

It is probably time to stop blaming Thaksin and inquire as to why the many subsequent governments did not fix the problems.

Explain please. What do you mean by certification? And who is this "local aviation ministry"?

Have you ever heard of ICAO? If I understand correctly you are saying that airlines are operating illegally!

also what do you mean by electronics not meeting international standards/ What electronics exactly?

I'm not sure what you are talking about and i suspect that you don't either.

However I totally agree that the whole airport reflects corruption on a massive scale.

Local aviation ministry is the Thailand Department of Civil Aviation. Yes I do know what the ICAO is but apparently the AOT does not think too highly of it. The electronics were the stuff most find important in the radar and air traffic control operation. I think it was almost two years ago the ICAO was still awaiting full compliance.

Back in 2007 DCA Director-General Chaisak Angkasuwan confirmed that without permanent certification, the airport is nonetheless able to operate with full safety and that the DCA decision is unrelated to earlier comments from the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO).

He added that France’s Charles de Gaulle airport, which opened before Suvarnabhumi Airport, is still using Interim Certificate.

Please dial back on the personal attack while you research your next diatribe.

Edited July 7, 2012 by grantbkk

[GentlemanJim]

This is a result of building an airport on a swamp amongst a myriad of other matters..

Utapao was built on a swamp. I was there during its construction and saw regular demolition of the mountain to supply the stone fill. Haven't heard they had a problem so it can be done right. Nearly forgot, the US built that runway.

And Swampy gets 200 times more heavy traffic than Utapao every day, maybe even more. Oh and yes the US built it

I wonder if while the eastern runway is decomissioned if AOT have ensured that the runway surface is analized by ground penetrating radar to try and detect major sinkholes so that advance planning and maintenance can be carried out. With the geology of the site there could be holes as big as houses 2 or three meters under the runway. I fear such measures will only be taken after an aircraft is lost due to a major runway fault appearing. The cost of pre-emptive maintenance may be high, but have you ever seen the cost of an accident!

[robertson468]

Its obviously not easy with the type of ground and flooding too.

But I suspect that fund mismanagement and corruption by Thaksin is the reason we have these problems in such frequency and severity. Its sort of ironic and also a sad indictment of anti-DP rhetoric, that people are so quick to talk-up the short 'airport seige' by PAD as being a huge blow to the airport functioning as a profitable entity, and the siege's impact on tourist confidence, when in fact the protesters were there for eight days, insignificant compared to all the closure and delays for reparations caused by mismanagement during construction, and PAD were protesting to remove Thaksin's corrupt regime, the very same regime who had robbed money from the construction of the same airport and led to it being an ongoing safety concern years later.

Dangerous runways discourages tourism far worse than eight days peaceful sit-down protest does. It also had over 60 structural faults when it was first opened over a year late, coupled with the flawed runways it doesn't inspire confidence at all.

If it is true that nepotism rather than construction safety-standards determined who Thaksin gave the contracts to, and the money was indeed spent on things other than the airport, then this should be investigated by the current PM, his sister.

Agreed. What will happen if "Swampy" looses the standard of an International Airport. Back to DM then?

Providing DM is not being used for Flood Control HQ and under water at the same time. You could not write this as a Fiction/Comedy Novel.

[Tywais]

And Swampy gets 200 times more heavy traffic than Utapao every day, maybe even more. Oh and yes the US built it

And traffic is not necessarily the cause of sink holes, poor design and forethought is. At that time, B-52's fully loaded are 'heavy' and daily traffic was high but still nothing happened.

[Nigel1500]

So much rubbish posted in response to this story. The problem of cracking and stripping (where the bitumen comes away from the concrete below) is common. The issue here is the maintenance schedule. The sky is not falling. It is not the end of the world. Once the maintenance schedule is sorted everything will be fine. It is normal to have runways closed for resurfacing and repair work. I believe Sydney airport had a runway closed for nearly a year with maintenance and repair works taking place.

[apetley]

So much rubbish posted in response to this story. The problem of cracking and stripping (where the bitumen comes away from the concrete below) is common. The issue here is the maintenance schedule. The sky is not falling. It is not the end of the world. Once the maintenance schedule is sorted everything will be fine. It is normal to have runways closed for resurfacing and repair work. I believe Sydney airport had a runway closed for nearly a year with maintenance and repair works taking place.

Routine maintainance takes place at all major airports in the world.

The problem here is that repairing sinkholes is not routine and that so many faults should not be appearing after only 5 years of operations.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

[mistitikimikis]

So much rubbish posted in response to this story. The problem of cracking and stripping (where the bitumen comes away from the concrete below) is common. The issue here is the maintenance schedule. The sky is not falling. It is not the end of the world. Once the maintenance schedule is sorted everything will be fine. It is normal to have runways closed for resurfacing and repair work. I believe Sydney airport had a runway closed for nearly a year with maintenance and repair works taking place.

Hope http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suvarnabhumi_Airport Wikipedia don't publish rubish: "Problems with the tarmac"

[GentlemanJim]

And Swampy gets 200 times more heavy traffic than Utapao every day, maybe even more. Oh and yes the US built it

And traffic is not necessarily the cause of sink holes, poor design and forethought is. At that time, B-52's fully loaded are 'heavy' and daily traffic was high but still nothing happened.

True, it is just heavy, regular repeated traffic may make the problem become apparent sooner. The sink holes are caused by the effectiveness (or lack of) of the sub surface drainage. I have been told that the subsurface composition in the area experiences quite severe extremes of shrinkage then water logging depending on seasonal conditions. If the US/US military had been contracted to build the runway at swampy, I doubt there would be any issues at all. One poster has rightly said that the sinkhole issues should not really be appearing within 5 years of runway use. Wait for another 5-10 years to see the state of the sub surface then.

And yes, airports world-wide resurface and repair their runways, but generally those problems are superficial and not involving major sub surface problems like those rumored to exist at swampy.

[Unkomoncents]

So much rubbish posted in response to this story. The problem of cracking and stripping (where the bitumen comes away from the concrete below) is common. The issue here is the maintenance schedule. The sky is not falling. It is not the end of the world. Once the maintenance schedule is sorted everything will be fine. It is normal to have runways closed for resurfacing and repair work. I believe Sydney airport had a runway closed for nearly a year with maintenance and repair works taking place.

I was waiting for the corruption, incompetence and malfeasance apologists to show up, as they always do. There is nothing "routine" about this. This airport is known for its many, many problems that DO NOT occur at other airports. Others have posted information for those who aren't knowledgeable on the issue enough to make a comment. I'm not expert on this, but Suvarnabhumi is not Sydney, despite your efforts to draw parallels. No, the "sky is not falling", so you're right there, but apparently the ground is sinking.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Unkomoncents

[PaullyW]

So much rubbish posted in response to this story. The problem of cracking and stripping (where the bitumen comes away from the concrete below) is common. The issue here is the maintenance schedule. The sky is not falling. It is not the end of the world. Once the maintenance schedule is sorted everything will be fine. It is normal to have runways closed for resurfacing and repair work. I believe Sydney airport had a runway closed for nearly a year with maintenance and repair works taking place.

Yes, in other words, "mai pen rai".

[hellodolly]

Well there certantley is a lot of negativity here on this thread and in all likely hood true for the most part.

That being said I was wondering how serious is it.

I quote a line out of the article that I would take to mean it is not that bad

"Airlines have reported only a marginal impact, and that the problems are largely under control."

The people who pay for it's use don't seem that concerned.

But then again they are not trying to sell news papers.

[hellodolly]

And Swampy gets 200 times more heavy traffic than Utapao every day, maybe even more. Oh and yes the US built it

And traffic is not necessarily the cause of sink holes, poor design and forethought is. At that time, B-52's fully loaded are 'heavy' and daily traffic was high but still nothing happened.

True, it is just heavy, regular repeated traffic may make the problem become apparent sooner. The sink holes are caused by the effectiveness (or lack of) of the sub surface drainage. I have been told that the subsurface composition in the area experiences quite severe extremes of shrinkage then water logging depending on seasonal conditions. If the US/US military had been contracted to build the runway at swampy, I doubt there would be any issues at all. One poster has rightly said that the sinkhole issues should not really be appearing within 5 years of runway use. Wait for another 5-10 years to see the state of the sub surface then.

And yes, airports world-wide resurface and repair their runways, but generally those problems are superficial and not involving major sub surface problems like those rumored to exist at swampy.

I see no reason for the state of the sub surface to be any different in 5 to 10 years than it is now. That is providing we don't get a major flood every year.

[MEL1]

So much rubbish posted in response to this story. The problem of cracking and stripping (where the bitumen comes away from the concrete below) is common. The issue here is the maintenance schedule. The sky is not falling. It is not the end of the world. Once the maintenance schedule is sorted everything will be fine. It is normal to have runways closed for resurfacing and repair work. I believe Sydney airport had a runway closed for nearly a year with maintenance and repair works taking place.

It's April fools right? You're having a larff? Surely?

-mel.

[MEL1]

And Swampy gets 200 times more heavy traffic than Utapao every day, maybe even more. Oh and yes the US built it

And traffic is not necessarily the cause of sink holes, poor design and forethought is. At that time, B-52's fully loaded are 'heavy' and daily traffic was high but still nothing happened.

True, it is just heavy, regular repeated traffic may make the problem become apparent sooner. The sink holes are caused by the effectiveness (or lack of) of the sub surface drainage. I have been told that the subsurface composition in the area experiences quite severe extremes of shrinkage then water logging depending on seasonal conditions. If the US/US military had been contracted to build the runway at swampy, I doubt there would be any issues at all. One poster has rightly said that the sinkhole issues should not really be appearing within 5 years of runway use. Wait for another 5-10 years to see the state of the sub surface then.

And yes, airports world-wide resurface and repair their runways, but generally those problems are superficial and not involving major sub surface problems like those rumored to exist at swampy.

I see no reason for the state of the sub surface to be any different in 5 to 10 years than it is now. That is providing we don't get a major flood every year.

The sub-surface will get worse, if water dispersion continues. The sub-waters are actually an asset at the moment, as they hold the supporting the supporting materials, and in this case a lot of sand. Once the waters start to disperse that's when the supporting materials develeop major holes, and holes in them disappear. This is all a normal part of subsidence. It's not a normal function to use limestone and sand as supporting matter for an airport runway, on a swamp. The virginal pressures of when built, to now, will have been dispersed and we are just seeing the initial results of that over the last years. There is the propensity for sinkholes the size of football fields and 40m deep to occur at any time if a large water dispersion occurs. You only have to look at the major sinkholes that have occured in Florida, with houses and pools disappearing, in one case a sink hole 100m deep occured and took a building block to get an idea.

-mel.

Or it could be a bitumen surface problem.

[Moruya]

They are planning to build at least 1 new runway at Swampy. If they start now, then when the other runway is scheduled for repairs next year, they will still have 2.

Just a thought..........

[thaicbr]

Its obviously not easy with the type of ground and flooding too.

But I suspect that fund mismanagement and corruption by Thaksin is the reason we have these problems in such frequency and severity. Its sort of ironic and also a sad indictment of anti-DP rhetoric, that people are so quick to talk-up the short 'airport seige' by PAD as being a huge blow to the airport functioning as a profitable entity, and the siege's impact on tourist confidence, when in fact the protesters were there for eight days, insignificant compared to all the closure and delays for reparations caused by mismanagement during construction, and PAD were protesting to remove Thaksin's corrupt regime, the very same regime who had robbed money from the construction of the same airport and led to it being an ongoing safety concern years later.

Dangerous runways discourages tourism far worse than eight days peaceful sit-down protest does. It also had over 60 structural faults when it was first opened over a year late, coupled with the flawed runways it doesn't inspire confidence at all.

If it is true that nepotism rather than construction safety-standards determined who Thaksin gave the contracts to, and the money was indeed spent on things other than the airport, then this should be investigated by the current PM, his sister.

Agreed. What will happen if "Swampy" looses the standard of an International Airport. Back to DM then?

The airport has never been certified except for a six month temporary certificate that was issued be the local aviation ministry for testing back in 2006. The airport, especially the electronics, backups and safety, will never meet international standards and will never receive international certification. The official Thai attitude is if you do not want to use the airport, don't. It is an economic reality for the airlines and everyone is hoping for the best. Everyone just assumes that the airport has proper certification. In reality no one is working towards getting it officially certified.

It is probably time to stop blaming Thaksin and inquire as to why the many subsequent governments did not fix the problems.

Most of those governments HAVE been Thaksin governments or if not they have been destabilized by him and his cronys (inc uncle hun sen)

sent from my Wellcom A90+

[jaltsc]

Are we surprised it took 40 years to build Suwannaphum Airport, and now we find out contractors pocketed millions and used substandard materials to build the runway?? With the massive cost blowouts and maintenance issues at Swampy, AoT must be one of the lowest returning infrastructure investments in Asia!

Perhaps the bamboo used for rebar should have been the first hint...and it was sub standard bamboo at that.

[NanLaew]

It seems Thais wait until things break, like airport runways with sink holes, instead of testing and doing preventative maintenance. Here is how to test runways, take preventative action, before aircraft are damaged. Could someone forward this to AOT?

OMG!... over thirty people downloaded this. Now there's a whole lot more armchair airport construction experts to post drivel.

[ratcatcher]

You can see why Number One didn't want it named after him or his family.

They tend to name some airports after people once they are dead. Charles De Gaulle, Dulles & Ronald Reagan International come to mind.

So maybe in years to come, there may be planes landing at Shinawatra International Airport.

[how241]

If you notice, the agencies responsible,other than the identifying agency, are blaming the problem on exterior problems and not accepting the responsibility for the problem. It was this....it was that......the problems was caused by .........

It doesn't make one comfortable with flying out the that airport. It only takes one plane hitting a sink hole to cause a crash and lives.

It never seems to end here.

+1

[sandrabbit]

This is a result of building an airport on a swamp amongst a myriad of other matters..

Utapao was built on a swamp. I was there during its construction and saw regular demolition of the mountain to supply the stone fill. Haven't heard they had a problem so it can be done right. Nearly forgot, the US built that runway.

And Swampy gets 200 times more heavy traffic than Utapao every day, maybe even more. Oh and yes the US built it

I wonder if while the eastern runway is decomissioned if AOT have ensured that the runway surface is analized by ground penetrating radar to try and detect major sinkholes so that advance planning and maintenance can be carried out. With the geology of the site there could be holes as big as houses 2 or three meters under the runway. I fear such measures will only be taken after an aircraft is lost due to a major runway fault appearing. The cost of pre-emptive maintenance may be high, but have you ever seen the cost of an accident!

sorry but your quote 'analized by ground penetrating' made me grin this morning, Freudian slip analized instead of analysed?. bit of boyz town there?.

[hellodolly]

MEL 1

The sub-surface will get worse, if water dispersion continues. The sub-waters are actually an asset at the moment, as they hold the supporting the supporting materials, and in this case a lot of sand. Once the waters start to disperse that's when the supporting materials develeop major holes, and holes in them disappear. This is all a normal part of subsidence. It's not a normal function to use limestone and sand as supporting matter for an airport runway, on a swamp. The virginal pressures of when built, to now, will have been dispersed and we are just seeing the initial results of that over the last years. There is the propensity for sinkholes the size of football fields and 40m deep to occur at any time if a large water dispersion occurs. You only have to look at the major sinkholes that have occured in Florida, with houses and pools disappearing, in one case a sink hole 100m deep occured and took a building block to get an idea.

-mel.

Or it could be a bitumen surface problem.

Well I agree what you say has some merit. How ever is not the whole area (Bangkok) sinking to below the sea level and would not each little bit of sinking make the chances of the water leaving the area and creating huge sink holes less likely to happen.

With my experience in road building I would not have even attempted to build a airport of that size there as there is no way of getting proper compaction on a area that big.

But the one thing I did learn was that engineers had ways to work around some difficulties that would not occur to the normal person.

Don't get me wrong I have had my differences of opinion with them and been right on occasion but not all the time.

Edited July 7, 2012 by hellodolly

[KhunMichael]

This is a result of building an airport on a swamp amongst a myriad of other matters..

Utapao was built on a swamp. I was there during its construction and saw regular demolition of the mountain to supply the stone fill. Haven't heard they had a problem so it can be done right. Nearly forgot, the US built that runway.

Nearly forgot, the US built that runway.

YES Tywais, but THIS is the most important difference.

[DocN]

Let us build a F1- circuit!!!!

[hellodolly]

Let us build a F1- circuit!!!!

We have one it go's all the way around the moat. Exiting to watch during songkrahn. Does any one know what Tsongkhapa is? I got that on my spell checker when I checked Songkhran.