Harsh Lesson Or Job Well Done...Daughter Swept Down River

[canuckamuck]

Sam you did well, and you didn't waste an excellent and rare opportunity to teach your kids something that might well save their life someday.

I a m jealous that you have a swimmable section of river to teach your kids in. The river on my place changes from too shallow to to swift, to make any teaching worthwhile.

I am always pleased when my kids learn a lesson about danger. In this country they are unlikely to learn to be careful from their friends or teachers. We have a short time before our influence is diluted by the herd.

I agree...it was a split second decision to teach something that may save her life for real in the future.....too good to pass up in my opinion and certainly non worse for wear considering her jumping into it on her own within 30 minutes later.

She learnt a lesson that NO swimming teacher could teach her in a pool....simple as that.

As for our river.....we used a backhoe to dig a swimming hole in it.....but it fills back in each wet season, so a repeated process.

Hmmm backhoe eh? Good idea, thanks

[samsiam]

It would not have taken much for this to have been a tragedy. Instead of a posting looking for a pat on the back, it would have been a post looking for sympathy and subject to multiple cries of irresponsible behaviour. Sorry, but this is not how to drownproof a child. Yes, it might have worked this time, and congratulations for beating the odds. Considering the fact that every year, children drown in the bath or in facilities with lifeguards, I am glad that you feel confident of your ability to beat the current and make those 5 meters and then have been able to get down into the water to find a submerged child had she gone under. Think about it some more.

In respect to those that say there is no harm in swallowing river water, protozoan pathogens are common in Thailand's water ways.

There are over 750 different types of human helminth infections. Do I really need to demonstrate the link between bacterial diarrhea and water? Hepatitis A is a viral disease spread through consumption of food or water contaminated with fecal matter, principally in areas of poor sanitation; Hepatitis E - is a water-borne viral disease most commonly spread through fecal contamination of drinking water

Typhoid fever - is a bacterial disease spread through contact with food or water contaminated by fecal matter or sewage

Although not usually associated with rivers, Leptospirosis is a bacterial disease that affects animals and humans; infection occurs through contact with water, food, or soil contaminated by animal urine. In the first 7 months of 2011 there 1050 cases and 16 deaths. Deptartment of public health advises that high attack rates (per 100 000 population) were reported in these 5 provinces: Ranong (11.55), Nong

Bua Lam Phu (9.38), Phang Nga (9.14), Nan (8.83) and Kalasin (7.65). Farmers were typically the infected patients, but their families also popped up in the data.

Seriously, we shouldn't even be having a discussion on the safety of Thailand's rivers. Any river that flows through an agricultural or an industrial district will most certainly be contaminated.

Did you read where I said it flows through no such areas of concern ??

But really.....perhaps we should all just stay home.

I do not need to think about it some more....I was there and I am quite good at making a relative decision like that in such a situation. You really cannot make an accurate comment on the danger because you have no idea yourself of the depth of the river...although I mention chest height...you have no idea for how far that chest depth was....nor the width, not the actual strength of the current and the actual distance of said current in that section. Nor do you know what was at the end of the current section and what the rest of the river looked like......so, while I appreciate your offerings....just try to think that a parent that is worth their salt, can and does make these decisions every day and I have absolutely no problem with it....I am proud of her results from it....I also know I was in control of the situation in that instance.

[samsiam]

Sorry pal, but there can be no excuses.

You placed the child in a precarious and uncontrolled situation. You gambled that the little girl would be able to over come the forces of the river and make it out safely.

Your discernment and actions in this case are those of an idiot.

I would be very interested to know more about your farming business, how you came to have exclusive rights over a river on agricultural land that probably you are not entitled to own and whether or not the said children are actually your kids or step children? Because if I was in knowledge of this information, I would have no hesitation in reporting you to the authorities to ensure the welfare and safety of those children.

If so sure that you are a competent parent or guardian and a bona-fide farm owner, than why not put it to the test? Only need to PM me the details, to see if the police will share the same opinions as yourself?

You sir...are an idiot.

The situation was controlled by myself....I did not see you standing on the bank to judge actual conditions and facts....so jump off your high horse and go wrap yourself in cotton wool.

Your claims of police and such are proving that you are just a tad physco.

It is morons like you that exude the white knight syndrome.

You could always come around to the farm...our farm....with a river....and I will throw you in and see if you could survive where a 7yo girl plays....gimp.

[samsiam]

Sorry mate, you're daughter may have learnt a few life saving skills this time, but I definitely wouldn't say job well done, and overall not a harsh lesson learnt, as you missed the key point. You just don't take risks with your daughter's life like that. On this occasion things turned out well for you and you were lucky.

You may have thought you were in control of the situation, and perhaps (even probably) you were, but virtually nothing is certain in life. Don't forget that many drownings come from underestimating the currents or over-confidence. There were plenty of "unlucky" things that could have gone wrong. You can't see what is under the water, she could have snagged her foot on something and got pulled under, with it being difficult to free; if she didn't manage it herself you might have slipped or had a mishap of some sort; the current may have been stronger than expected and so on. What happens if you did go in, and while struggling with the daughter, the son does something, maybe stops laughing and realises it's serious, even tries to help and fails - with you now needing to save 2 at the same time.

As mentioned in reply above....in a situation like this, it is easy to judge from the sidelines....you were not there, I was and I was able to judge it....I know that section river well and at no time was she at risk of a worse case scenario....you might not think that because it is a big bad thai river......but the old saying, you have to be there to appreciate it.

My daughter learnt a life saving lesson and at the same time was in no real danger of actual drowning....remember the panic was the worst thing affecting her....not actually drowning....I controlled it, I would have been on top of her in 3 seconds if required. I would prefer her to learn this now and never need it, than not take it seriously as in pools...and drown one day in the surf or a river.....she has respect for it now.

[samsiam]

Sam you did well, and you didn't waste an excellent and rare opportunity to teach your kids something that might well save their life someday.

I a m jealous that you have a swimmable section of river to teach your kids in. The river on my place changes from too shallow to to swift, to make any teaching worthwhile.

I am always pleased when my kids learn a lesson about danger. In this country they are unlikely to learn to be careful from their friends or teachers. We have a short time before our influence is diluted by the herd.

I agree...it was a split second decision to teach something that may save her life for real in the future.....too good to pass up in my opinion and certainly non worse for wear considering her jumping into it on her own within 30 minutes later.

She learnt a lesson that NO swimming teacher could teach her in a pool....simple as that.

As for our river.....we used a backhoe to dig a swimming hole in it.....but it fills back in each wet season, so a repeated process.

Hmmm backhoe eh? Good idea, thanks

Makro actually,,,,the bigger one than backhoes.

for 5k each start of the dry, you can get a hole dug deep enough for a good pool and the river flow refreshes it daily.

[travelmann]

Theyll all have a good laugh about it and 10 minutes later it will be forgotten and repeated ( would seem to be the norm here)

[samsiam]

Theyll all have a good laugh about it and 10 minutes later it will be forgotten and repeated ( would seem to be the norm here)

Exactly.

Some miss the point though....that it was her panic mode that caused the encounter to become what it was and it was my choice to not shut down that panic immediately by grabbing her and pulling her out.

This is evident that less than 30min later they were careering down the same stretch of river by themselves having a riot and then swimming over to the calm area as instructed by themselves....they learnt what to do in a real life...while scary at the time for her....controlled and safe situation.

The drama queens above should spend their lives indoors because of all the bugs and critters outside.....god help me when I write up the camping trip in the outdoors and what horror story reactions that will get from the chaps above.

[Rsquared]

Well done Sam.

I have spent 33 years in the Maritime Industry and have lost count the number of Survival Courses I have attended and conducted myself.

No amount of training can give give you the experience of an actual real life encounter.

I have seen people become nonchalant whilst doing these courses, thinking they knew everything and they would be alright in a real life situation. One occasion we had a fire on a ship and one of the guys that was to be in a responsible role to help fight the fire.......simply froze. So we had to take him away from the scene to try and calm him down while the rest of us contained the fire.

A little off topic but you get the idea

As you mentioned Sam, you were on the spot and within help if your daughter got into difficulties.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Rsquared

[samsiam]

Well done Sam.

I have spent 33 years in the Maritime Industry and have lost count the number of Survival Courses I have attended and conducted myself.

No amount of training can give give you the experience of an actual real life encounter.

I have done a couple of those also a long time ago......but, the one I remember everything about....was the real life episode.

I was involved in a white water rafting incident....where 1 drowned, we brought back to life another and 2 others were tossed about under ledges under water for what seemed like ages and with life jackets on, another was saved before being thrown down successive rapids alone.. This was in serious white water conditions.

Apart from the guy that drowned, he never got a chance at secondary drowning....but nobody suffered secondary effects and that was as serious as it gets.

Not saying it does not happen, course it does and I know of it and there was a case here in Thailand recently I believe of the hospital releasing the person and then dying some time in next 24 hours from memory.

I also fell out of a boat once into a crocodile swamp.....awesome Jesus impression.

[Rsquared]

Bet you didn't even get wet

[cornishcarlos]

You seem to have reacted very badly to every poster that disagrees with your actions.

So why post on here in the 1st place ? Oh wait, it was to get your cyber hugs from all the other idiots that would do the same...

As a couple people have already said, you were very lucky that nothing more serious came of it...

But you will never realize that as you 'think' you were in control

Right, time for a swim....

[Rsquared]

Well done Sam.

I have spent 33 years in the Maritime Industry and have lost count the number of Survival Courses I have attended and conducted myself.

No amount of training can give give you the experience of an actual real life encounter.

I have done a couple of those also a long time ago......but, the one I remember everything about....was the real life episode.

I was involved in a white water rafting incident....where 1 drowned, we brought back to life another and 2 others were tossed about under ledges under water for what seemed like ages and with life jackets on, another was saved before being thrown down successive rapids alone.. This was in serious white water conditions.

Apart from the guy that drowned, he never got a chance at secondary drowning....but nobody suffered secondary effects and that was as serious as it gets.

Not saying it does not happen, course it does and I know of it and there was a case here in Thailand recently I believe of the hospital releasing the person and then dying some time in next 24 hours from memory.

I also fell out of a boat once into a crocodile swamp.....awesome Jesus impression.

Sad about your rafting experience........but as you said, you and I bet the other survivors learnt a valuable lesson that day and have never forgotten it.

[canuckamuck]

They should install a "what a dick" button for posts like #29

[samsiam]

As a couple people have already said, you were very lucky that nothing more serious came of it...

But you will never realize that as you 'think' you were in control

You might rely on luck, I did not.....some people think, some do and know.....I bet you have a flotation device in the tub huh ??

As for bad responses to all those against...not at all, just confirming my actions were good for us in this precise situation as it unfolded. Tomorrow it may not be right for the same thing because the river could be higher from overnight rain...then it would not have unfolded as it did.

Only the gimp BJ deserves such a response as he got.

[ExpatJ]

Easy said than done when you are 7yo and in the river being swept away.....much easier in a pool....but a pool does not involve the real factor of 'panic'...which is what she developed very quickly and even good swimmers can drown because of that.

yes, she can swim very well and has been since circa 3yo...she won a school relay race a couple weeks ago...she can also duck dive down to 3m when she was I think 5, definitely 6yo.

The thing is that it was the perfect situation to sit back and watch what she does....yes she went under, just head popping up and then being dunked by the rough water again.....she was never in danger of actually drowning as there was calmer areas beyond the little rapids and I would have been on top of her if it had got to that. It was controlled by me, but it was a harsh lesson for her seeing as it upset her so....but I instantly thought the pros and cons and felt it well worth it to do in a reality situation....you can teach and teach and teach in a sterile environment....but the chance to do something real like that in a very real situation does not come along frequently.

Also my boy watching learnt from it....when they went sliding down he knew exactly what to do when in the strong current.

I feel sorry for your kids if this is your attitude, . I suspect your daughter will remember, in a very negative way, you standing on the side of the river and not jumping in to save her (which you admit would have been easy) even if she immediately seemed fine with what you did.

Mean time, continue to enjoy gambling with your kids lives- you seem to get a proud kick out of it, congrats.

Edited July 9, 2012 by ExpatJ

[canuckamuck]

Look you guys are letting your imagination take over, This wasn't Niagra falls, it was a typical meandering Thai mountain stream. Sam understood several things; that he was able to take her out of the stream if necessary, that the situation she was in was a good representation of actual dangerous situations found in many rivers. He knew there was an area of calm shallow water just passed the stretch of faster water, he knew his daughter was a good swimmer, and I am sure that if he felt her life was actually threatened at any time he would not have hesitated to pull her out.

[travelmann]

Look you guys are letting your imagination take over, This wasn't Niagra falls, it was a typical meandering Thai mountain stream. Sam understood several things; that he was able to take her out of the stream if necessary, that the situation she was in was a good representation of actual dangerous situations found in many rivers. He knew there was an area of calm shallow water just passed the stretch of faster water, he knew his daughter was a good swimmer, and I am sure that if he felt her life was actually threatened at any time he would not have hesitated to pull her out.

Nope he has already stated you werent there only he knows

[canuckamuck]

Look you guys are letting your imagination take over, This wasn't Niagra falls, it was a typical meandering Thai mountain stream. Sam understood several things; that he was able to take her out of the stream if necessary, that the situation she was in was a good representation of actual dangerous situations found in many rivers. He knew there was an area of calm shallow water just passed the stretch of faster water, he knew his daughter was a good swimmer, and I am sure that if he felt her life was actually threatened at any time he would not have hesitated to pull her out.

Nope he has already stated you werent there only he knows

Umm, yes that is true, he is the only one of us that was there. But I am going by his description, not by some paranoid exaggeration.

[fletchsmile]

Sorry mate, you're daughter may have learnt a few life saving skills this time, but I definitely wouldn't say job well done, and overall not a harsh lesson learnt, as you missed the key point. You just don't take risks with your daughter's life like that. On this occasion things turned out well for you and you were lucky.

You may have thought you were in control of the situation, and perhaps (even probably) you were, but virtually nothing is certain in life. Don't forget that many drownings come from underestimating the currents or over-confidence. There were plenty of "unlucky" things that could have gone wrong. You can't see what is under the water, she could have snagged her foot on something and got pulled under, with it being difficult to free; if she didn't manage it herself you might have slipped or had a mishap of some sort; the current may have been stronger than expected and so on. What happens if you did go in, and while struggling with the daughter, the son does something, maybe stops laughing and realises it's serious, even tries to help and fails - with you now needing to save 2 at the same time.

As mentioned in reply above....in a situation like this, it is easy to judge from the sidelines....you were not there, I was and I was able to judge it....I know that section river well and at no time was she at risk of a worse case scenario....you might not think that because it is a big bad thai river......but the old saying, you have to be there to appreciate it.

My daughter learnt a life saving lesson and at the same time was in no real danger of actual drowning....remember the panic was the worst thing affecting her....not actually drowning....I controlled it, I would have been on top of her in 3 seconds if required. I would prefer her to learn this now and never need it, than not take it seriously as in pools...and drown one day in the surf or a river.....she has respect for it now.

It seems you just wanted people that share your opinions to give you a pat on the back. Sorry I don't see it that way

You're lucky that you have infallible 100% judgement. There are plenty of examples of such over-confidence, or slight miscalculations, leading to accidents that don't have such a happy ending. I remember helping a girlfriend over a decade or so back who got into difficulties in a strong current, and suddenly found herself unexpectedly out of her depth and being carried away. When going into rescue her, the current was much stronger than expected, the waterbed also suddenly dropped from me being able to stand to not. I underestimated these, even though a no-brainer that I should go in. It was a real struggle to get her out. The guy that came in to help us both, also he said he was surprised and underestimated the situation re the current and didn't realise the floor dropped. Luckily with his help, all worked out well. I was a strong swimmer, it didn't look a big issue, but I was wrong, and thankfully lucky. I guess the message is, I hope you're never in a situation you underestimate and you get unlucky.

A couple of other points

- It was your son and not you that noticed the danger, and you were blissfully unaware of the danger, not watching. Lucky man. Even luckier they both weren't suddenly caught out and carried down the river, while you weren't watching. Sounds like it would have been too strong for your son as well. It would have been terrible to have to choose.

Your comments like: "you might not think that because it is a big bad river..." are a little immature and a failed attempt to patronise.

True, I wasn't there. But there's enough in your post to show there was danger and a real threat. To quote:

Mind you, she was panicking and going under water and crying all at the same time.

The current in this little section was quite strong, I later stood in it and it was chest deep in couple of places, but it swept me away, could not stand still

Sounds very much to me like there was a risk of drowning as she kept going under water and was panicking. OK you were there and you think you are infallible, and think you were in control and unexpected mishaps don't happen to you.

In reality it you went back afterwards to check/confirm the conditions, so you weren't 100% sure, and didn't have 100% assessment of the risk. This is where my opinion differs, as that very small percentage on a very unlucky day, you could be exactly as geriatric kid put it.

BTW What would I do, and my lessons:

1) I'd be watching my kids in areas where there are known dangers of drowning

2) No point taking taking risks in a possible drowning situation. Save your daughter first

3) You could always have gone back afterwards and shown her what to do if the lesson was so important. She's already had the scare and panic. Test it on yourself first (as you later did) and then if you still believe it's safe and measured it might be possible to accompany her and show her direct

Edited July 9, 2012 by fletchsmile

[samsiam]

Look you guys are letting your imagination take over, This wasn't Niagra falls, it was a typical meandering Thai mountain stream. Sam understood several things; that he was able to take her out of the stream if necessary, that the situation she was in was a good representation of actual dangerous situations found in many rivers. He knew there was an area of calm shallow water just passed the stretch of faster water, he knew his daughter was a good swimmer, and I am sure that if he felt her life was actually threatened at any time he would not have hesitated to pull her out.

Nope he has already stated you werent there only he knows

True....but he is reading my posts...and whats more he seems to be compra....comproh....understanding it the mostest.

[fletchsmile]

Look you guys are letting your imagination take over, This wasn't Niagra falls, it was a typical meandering Thai mountain stream. Sam understood several things; that he was able to take her out of the stream if necessary, that the situation she was in was a good representation of actual dangerous situations found in many rivers. He knew there was an area of calm shallow water just passed the stretch of faster water, he knew his daughter was a good swimmer, and I am sure that if he felt her life was actually threatened at any time he would not have hesitated to pull her out.

Nope he has already stated you werent there only he knows

Umm, yes that is true, he is the only one of us that was there. But I am going by his description, not by some paranoid exaggeration.

He went back to check/confirm the strength of the current and depth later. That doesn't sound lo me like someone 100% sure. There was some doubt otherwise why the need to check and why the curiousity about something that is known 100%. (He confirmed it was up to his chest, so probably over the head of him and his 10 and 7 year olds, and too strong for him.] Sounds to me he didn't have it 100% covered. 99.x% maybe, but that's not a risk I'd take with my daughter.

[ExpatJ]

Look you guys are letting your imagination take over, This wasn't Niagra falls, it was a typical meandering Thai mountain stream. Sam understood several things; that he was able to take her out of the stream if necessary, that the situation she was in was a good representation of actual dangerous situations found in many rivers. He knew there was an area of calm shallow water just passed the stretch of faster water, he knew his daughter was a good swimmer, and I am sure that if he felt her life was actually threatened at any time he would not have hesitated to pull her out.

Anyone who has come close to drowning knows that the horrible memory stays with you for life. I suspect the OP has not experienced this himself which is why he is so proud and clearly relishing this episode where his daughter had a close to drowning experience.

[samsiam]

It seems you just wanted people that share your opinions to give you a pat on the back. Sorry I don't see it that way

You're lucky that you have infallible 100% judgement. There are plenty of examples of such over-confidence, or slight miscalculations, leading to accidents that don't have such a happy ending. I remember helping a girlfriend over a decade or so back who got into difficulties in a strong current, and suddenly found herself unexpectedly out of her depth and being carried away. When going into rescue her, the current was much stronger than expected, the waterbed also suddenly dropped from me being able to stand to not. I underestimated these, even though a no-brainer that I should go in. It was a real struggle to get her out. The guy that came in to help us both, also he said he was surprised and underestimated the situation re the current and didn't realise the floor dropped. Luckily with his help, all worked out well. I was a strong swimmer, it didn't look a big issue, but I was wrong, and thankfully lucky. I guess the message is, I hope you're never in a situation you underestimate and you get unlucky.

A couple of other points

- It was your son and not you that noticed the danger, and you were blissfully unaware of the danger, not watching. Lucky man. Even luckier they both weren't suddenly caught out and carried down the river, while you weren't watching. Sounds like it would have been too strong for your son as well. It would have been terrible to have to choose.

Your comments like: "you might not think that because it is a big bad river..." are a little immature and a failed attempt to patronise.

True, I wasn't there. But there's enough in your post to show there was danger and a real threat. To quote:

Sounds very much to me like there was a risk of drowning as she kept going under water and was panicking. OK you were there and you think you are infallible, and think you were in control and unexpected mishaps don't happen to you.

In reality it you went back afterwards to check/confirm the conditions, so you weren't 100% sure, and didn't have 100% assessment of the risk. This is where my opinion differs, as that very small percentage on a very unlucky day, you could be exactly as geriatric kid put it.

BTW What would I do, and my lessons:

1) I'd be watching my kids in areas where there are known dangers of drowning

2) No point taking taking risks in a possible drowning situation. Save your daughter first

3) You could always have gone back afterwards and shown her what to do if the lesson was so important. She's already had the scare and panic. Test it on yourself first (as you later did) and then if you still believe it's safe and measured it might be possible to accompany her and show her direct

Somewhat over exaggerations and assumptions here by you.....all which lead to your theory.....a theory of someone not being Johnny on the spot.

You can make up as many possible problems and situations as you like....would you like me to run a few by you when you take your child to school or such ??

But I would never be so quick to presume facts and scenarios that were not correct.

One thing though...and there is some leeway for this considering it is the internet and the person on the other end is an unknown factor....but do not proceed to tell me that I do not protect and or watch after my kids....you have no idea of such, so don't go there.

[fletchsmile]

Look you guys are letting your imagination take over, This wasn't Niagra falls, it was a typical meandering Thai mountain stream. Sam understood several things; that he was able to take her out of the stream if necessary, that the situation she was in was a good representation of actual dangerous situations found in many rivers. He knew there was an area of calm shallow water just passed the stretch of faster water, he knew his daughter was a good swimmer, and I am sure that if he felt her life was actually threatened at any time he would not have hesitated to pull her out.

Anyone who has come close to drowning knows that the horrible memory stays with you for life. I suspect the OP has not experienced this himself which is why he is so proud and clearly relishing this episode where his daughter had a close to drowning experience.

Wise words.

[samsiam]

Look you guys are letting your imagination take over, This wasn't Niagra falls, it was a typical meandering Thai mountain stream. Sam understood several things; that he was able to take her out of the stream if necessary, that the situation she was in was a good representation of actual dangerous situations found in many rivers. He knew there was an area of calm shallow water just passed the stretch of faster water, he knew his daughter was a good swimmer, and I am sure that if he felt her life was actually threatened at any time he would not have hesitated to pull her out.

Nope he has already stated you werent there only he knows

Umm, yes that is true, he is the only one of us that was there. But I am going by his description, not by some paranoid exaggeration.

He went back to check/confirm the strength of the current and depth later. That doesn't sound lo me like someone 100% sure. There was some doubt otherwise why the need to check and why the curiousity about something that is known 100%. (He confirmed it was up to his chest, so probably over the head of him and his 10 and 7 year olds, and too strong for him.] Sounds to me he didn't have it 100% covered. 99.x% maybe, but that's not a risk I'd take with my daughter.

Lol....do you ever take your child out in Thai traffic ??...a taxi perhaps ??....I would have no doubt that my 99% assurance would beat your assurance over your taxi driver.

Get a grip really.

I prefer life experiences over a sterile environment like you seem to prefer.

[samsiam]

Look you guys are letting your imagination take over, This wasn't Niagra falls, it was a typical meandering Thai mountain stream. Sam understood several things; that he was able to take her out of the stream if necessary, that the situation she was in was a good representation of actual dangerous situations found in many rivers. He knew there was an area of calm shallow water just passed the stretch of faster water, he knew his daughter was a good swimmer, and I am sure that if he felt her life was actually threatened at any time he would not have hesitated to pull her out.

Anyone who has come close to drowning knows that the horrible memory stays with you for life. I suspect the OP has not experienced this himself which is why he is so proud and clearly relishing this episode where his daughter had a close to drowning experience.

Yes you are correct.....I am so proud of her for it and recovering from it.

Funny..she wanted to go swimming today.....but we decided to go gokarting.....but that might be too dangerous also.....best stay inside.

[fletchsmile]

Somewhat over exaggerations and assumptions here by you.....all which lead to your theory.....a theory of someone not being Johnny on the spot.

You can make up as many possible problems and situations as you like....would you like me to run a few by you when you take your child to school or such ??

But I would never be so quick to presume facts and scenarios that were not correct.

One thing though...and there is some leeway for this considering it is the internet and the person on the other end is an unknown factor....but do not proceed to tell me that I do not protect and or watch after my kids....you have no idea of such, so don't go there.

Your words, not mine:

"My 7yo daughter was rolling about in the water before the rapid section...she rolled too far and got sucked into the stream and floated down the river.... By the time my 10yo son alerted me as I was looking at rocks below my feet...he was laughing and yelling 'look xxxx is floating down the river'"

"Mind you, she was panicking and going under water and crying all at the same time."

"The current in this little section was quite strong, I later stood in it and it was chest deep in couple of places, but it swpet me away, could not stand still."

[ExpatJ]

Look you guys are letting your imagination take over, This wasn't Niagra falls, it was a typical meandering Thai mountain stream. Sam understood several things; that he was able to take her out of the stream if necessary, that the situation she was in was a good representation of actual dangerous situations found in many rivers. He knew there was an area of calm shallow water just passed the stretch of faster water, he knew his daughter was a good swimmer, and I am sure that if he felt her life was actually threatened at any time he would not have hesitated to pull her out.

Anyone who has come close to drowning knows that the horrible memory stays with you for life. I suspect the OP has not experienced this himself which is why he is so proud and clearly relishing this episode where his daughter had a close to drowning experience.

Yes you are correct.....I am so proud of her for it and recovering from it.

Funny..she wanted to go swimming today.....but we decided to go gokarting.....but that might be too dangerous also.....best stay inside.

We all see the argument you are groping for- that there is danger in every day life (e.g. taking a taxi) so why worry? The point is that AT THE POINT where potential danger manifests to actual suffering i.e. your daughter experienced a near drowning experience, you chose to let her continue experience that suffering and you seem to have relished the experience.

Edited July 9, 2012 by ExpatJ

[samsiam]

Somewhat over exaggerations and assumptions here by you.....all which lead to your theory.....a theory of someone not being Johnny on the spot.

You can make up as many possible problems and situations as you like....would you like me to run a few by you when you take your child to school or such ??

But I would never be so quick to presume facts and scenarios that were not correct.

One thing though...and there is some leeway for this considering it is the internet and the person on the other end is an unknown factor....but do not proceed to tell me that I do not protect and or watch after my kids....you have no idea of such, so don't go there.

Your words, not mine:

"My 7yo daughter was rolling about in the water before the rapid section...she rolled too far and got sucked into the stream and floated down the river.... By the time my 10yo son alerted me as I was looking at rocks below my feet...he was laughing and yelling 'look xxxx is floating down the river'"

"Mind you, she was panicking and going under water and crying all at the same time."

"The current in this little section was quite strong, I later stood in it and it was chest deep in couple of places, but it swpet me away, could not stand still."

Exactly...and your assumptions from not being there should not be as exaggerated as they are.

For example...when I say current in this 'little section'.......how long are you imagining this section ??

The chset deep section....how long do you imagine this section and how wide ??

The area beyond this small section...what did your imagination perceive it to be and how far to it ??

How long do you perceive the 'by the time my son alerted me' to be exactly and where was I standing in relation ??

'going under the water'....how did you view this in your imagination, what depth was she going down to and for how many seconds at a time and for what distance ??

[fletchsmile]

Lol....do you ever take your child out in Thai traffic ??...a taxi perhaps ??....I would have no doubt that my 99% assurance would beat your assurance over your taxi driver.

Get a grip really.

I prefer life experiences over a sterile environment like you seem to prefer.

Quite a few assumptions you have made. I haven't mentioned anything about what sort of environment I raise my kids in.

What I did do, is say that in a situation where without my assistance my daughter would probably have drowned, I'd save her first and see to the lessons after. And yes... you weren't watching, your son alerted you.... lucky.

The reaction to various posters who have shown a difference of opinion underlines the key issue. Will leave you to it. Happy you were lucky this time.