Gay Activists - Adoreable Or Unbearable?

[tombkk]

Thanks, hookedondhamma and isanbirder.

With regards to the forum and hot air, I think it is as mixed as real life.

[LeCharivari]

.....

My gay activism over here is just living a gay lifestyle. .....

By "just living a gay lifestyle" I presume that you mean just being openly gay, as many of us are, rather than any sort of "alternative lifestyle" with all that implies. I don't think that could be called "activism" by any stretch of the imagination, but it probably achieves far more for gays in terms of acceptance and integration than "activism" does.

[David006]

I stand in awe and admiration of the gay people who have had the courage to stand up for what they believe.

oh yes....totally awesome....have no idea what they believe or what the rights are that they expect.......???

What's it about, taxes, marriage, joining the army, adopting children.? I think a lot of it is plain exhibitionism.......

If they got everything they say they want the world would loose interest and then what.........

There are so many oppressed,dispossessed and downtrodden in the world ..I think it is deplorable that they get/expect so much press..

I know a few gays..never heard 'em whine ..okay so they do say "ka". lol...nice people.... enjoying life as it is........

[Jingthing]

I can answer that with my opinion. In numerous countries around the world, gay activists and their supporters are seeking equality under the law and also the admitedly more abstract goal of fairness in social situations (such as the right to bring a gay spouse to a social event such as a work party without risking social ostracism or loss of a job). Of course legislation only goes so far. If an employer wants to not hire or fire for being gay, even when against the law, it is usually very hard to prove or enforce. As far as the level of discrimination against gay people, that varies across countries and manifests itself in different ways. In some countries, being gay can attract the death penalty. In other countries, legal equality has been achieved. As you can read on this forum, not all gay people actually support advocates for their own civil rights. Pretty bizarre, but it is what it is.

Being for gay civil rights doesn't mean you aren't ALSO for all kinds of global fights against unfairness and oppression of OTHER classes of people. It is NOT a contest, which group is more oppressed.

I get the sense you're are offended by what you perceive as flamboyant exhibitionism. That's certainly a valid feeling for you but it doesn't really have anything to do with the LEGAL aspect of the gay civil rights movement.

Among gay people, it has been discussed for years whether public flamboyant displays are beneficial or harmful to the social perception of gay people in the wider society. Many say it is definitely harmful. But in a free society, you can't really control what individuals do as long as legal. All I can say to that is you see what you see and may not like it but don't for a moment conclude that ALL or even most gay people act out in that manner. The ones that don't would often be invisible to you.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

What's it about, taxes, marriage, joining the army, adopting children.? I think a lot of it is plain exhibitionism.......

All of the aforementioned, David .... and unfortunately you are right, to a certain extent, about the "exhibitionism" bit as that does tend to alienate a lot of people, particularly when its a bunch of inadequates squealing about being "on the front line" and "putting themselves in harm's way" and so on, which is simply nauseating.

... and yes, it can be counter-productive: the two countries with the largest Gay Pride parades (Australia and the USA) are also the only two countries that have felt the need to pass recent legislation making marriage legal only between a man and a woman. Coincidence? Who knows?

... and yes, there are plenty of other people in the world that deserve attention and support, but generally speaking gay rights are an issue and get "press" only in those countries where there aren't "so many oppressed,dispossessed and downtrodden" people, and where it is a national issue rather than an international one. Different countries have different priorities and different domestic issues.

[Jingthing]

All of the aforementioned, David .... and unfortunately you are right, to a certain extent, about the "exhibitionism" bit as that does tend to alienate a lot of people, particularly when its a bunch of inadequates squealing about being "on the front line" and "putting themselves in harm's way" and so on, which is simply nauseating.

Why am I not surprised that you show such sympathy for an obvious homophobe? Dude, I know your type. You're embarrassed and shamed by flamboyant gay people. You are afraid to be "tainted" by that. What happened to celebrating DIVERSITY!

We are looking for civil rights for ALL kinds of gay people. Even the ones that right wing reactionary gay people find offensive.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Jingthing

[hookedondhamma]

All of the aforementioned, David .... and unfortunately you are right, to a certain extent, about the "exhibitionism" bit as that does tend to alienate a lot of people, particularly when its a bunch of inadequates squealing about being "on the front line" and "putting themselves in harm's way" and so on, which is simply nauseating.

Why am I not surprised that you show such sympathy for an obvious homophobe? Dude, I know your type. You're embarrassed and shamed by flamboyant gay people. You are afraid to be "tainted" by that. What happened to celebrating DIVERSITY!

We are looking for civil rights for ALL kinds of gay people. Even the ones that right wing reactionary gay people find offensive.

oh my, I can feel your passion through the computer screen, JingThing!

Question though, how do you know what type of person he really is? It's the internet, and not as though he's face to face with you eating fish and chips, you know?

I do agree with you though, diversity is wonderful!

[Jingthing]

I know him from hundreds of his posts. A clear agenda.

[LeCharivari]

All of the aforementioned, David .... and unfortunately you are right, to a certain extent, about the "exhibitionism" bit as that does tend to alienate a lot of people, particularly when its a bunch of inadequates squealing about being "on the front line" and "putting themselves in harm's way" and so on, which is simply nauseating.

Why am I not surprised that you show such sympathy for an obvious homophobe? Dude, I know your type. You're embarrassed and shamed by flamboyant gay people. You are afraid to be "tainted" by that. ....

No, I have no problem with "diversity" at all - what I have a problem with is people giving themselves credit they don't deserve.

[MrRealDeal]

I would add to this that the Effective or most effective activists in any arena are not the ones to intentionally annoy people to get attention to their cause, they are the most visable but certianly not the most effective , the ones who are, are, in fact not annoying at all because they know that annoying people shuts down their ability to listen and hear what they are saying.

They also don't concentrate on what everyone else is doing wrong , they concentrate in what they think is correct. MLK said he wished for a day when people would be judged on their charactor not the color of their skin because saying I wish for a day when people would stop judgeing people on the color of their skin but on their charactor puts people on the defensive because it tells them what they are doing wrong, it's basicly saying the same thing but one way is a little more positive and less condeming and allows people to hear it more clearly and think about it longer.

A good activist is a good negoitator and teacher ......... you are far better off getting people to see your way by pointing out the correctness of your own way and the positive merits of what you are saying, and letting the other guy consider all his incorectness all by himself, than you are wasting your time telling people who disagree with you that they are wrong ..... they already know you feel that way.

However having said that I would agree that most of the time the expression that their is no such thing as bed press is a pretty accurate statement , and even annoying activists would be better than none.

However thats obviously not the only choice.

Edited August 14, 2012 by MrRealDeal

[cdnvic]

Tom closed a similar topic for good reasons displayed here. No need to ressurect this one and do a hermit crab shuffle over to it.

[hookedondhamma]

Hey Civic, it isn't closed quite yet.

[cdnvic]

Hey Civic, it isn't closed quite yet.

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