Acceptable Or Not?

[chiang mai]

I got my wrist slapped a couple of months ago for picking up on a poster who used the phrase, "you people", I maintained the term was racist and derogatory although others thought differently so I let it slide. Now again the same issue has arisen, all my background in the US tells me that phrase is strictly off limits, here's what the urban dictionary has to say:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=you%20people&defid=4165935

What do you think, is it a phrase that can safetly be used or not?

[Bangkokhatter]

I recently read that thread where you berated a member for using that term and i must admit I have no idea why you consider the phrase racist. Maybe an American thing ? certainly not heard of any problems using the term in the UK.

[edwinclapham]

I would have no hesitation using "You People".. it means nothing to me other than addressing a group of people. PC gone wrong imo.

Maybe in your language it is considered offensive, but certainly in mine I would be surprised if it raised eye brows!

[osten]

One of the things I appreciate most about livng in Thailand and no longer USA is that I don't have to watch every word I say for fear of not being "PC."

Sent from my HTC ChaCha A810e using Thaivisa Connect App

[Shot]

Nothing wrong with it. It’s PC gone crazy.

Let’s see what the rest of you people think.

[chiang mai]

Interesting, my own experience of the phrase (I'm a Brit by the way) was of living and working in Detroit in the 1970's. I worked for a bank downtown and nearly all of my staff were African Americans (I hope I got that right, apologies if I didn't), using a phrase such as "you people" would have seen me facing a law suit for racial discrimination. I have to admit that at the time the whole race relations thing was on a knife edge following the Detroit riots but it served as useful experience for me as to what could be said and what shouldn't. When I challenged the first poster a few months ago I decided to research the phrase and see what the popular view is, hence the entry from the Urban Dictionary above which seems to imply it's still off limits.

Looking at some of the replies thus far I would guess the way this is going to come out is that the Brits will say it's all PC gone mad, but it'll be interesting to see if the Americans say the same thing.

Edited July 9, 2012 by chiang mai

[robblok]

I think your making a moutain out of a moll hil. You people can mean a group of people just because it has a negative meaning somewhere does not mean the same is true all over the world.

Please dont forget there are all kinds of English speakers and so many deviations on it its more likely not to be used negative at all.

Just my 2 cents.

[hookedondhamma]

I recently read that thread where you berated a member for using that term and i must admit I have no idea why you consider the phrase racist. Maybe an American thing ? certainly not heard of any problems using the term in the UK.

No, not quite. It seems like this would vary person to person.

[chiang mai]

I think your making a moutain out of a moll hil. You people can mean a group of people just because it has a negative meaning somewhere does not mean the same is true all over the world.

Please dont forget there are all kinds of English speakers and so many deviations on it its more likely not to be used negative at all.

Just my 2 cents.

I'm really not trying to make a big deal out of this, I'm just trying to understand what's acceptable and what is not and if I need to change my rule set that's easily done.

[h90]

One of the things I appreciate most about livng in Thailand and no longer USA is that I don't have to watch every word I say for fear of not being "PC."

Sent from my HTC ChaCha A810e using Thaivisa Connect App

The same in Germany and Austria.....If you tell that the Highway to the west is good, than you are almost a Nazi (Hitler built it). If you order 3 Beer it is some code, Number 88 is some Nazi code. Almost anything containing honor is Nazi.....

You can almost say anything the PC will find a Nazi who told the same and make up a story that you are using the same wording so you are a Nazi.

The good thing is that people get resistant to it....

[thehelmsman]

In the states if you said "you people" to a black person or any minority for that matter - that person would take offense. It's just a phrase that you wouldn't routinely use.

[geriatrickid]

One of the things I appreciate most about livng in Thailand and no longer USA is that I don't have to watch every word I say for fear of not being "PC."

Sent from my HTC ChaCha A810e using Thaivisa Connect App

The same in Germany and Austria.....If you tell that the Highway to the west is good, than you are almost a Nazi (Hitler built it). If you order 3 Beer it is some code, Number 88 is some Nazi code. Almost anything containing honor is Nazi.....

You can almost say anything the PC will find a Nazi who told the same and make up a story that you are using the same wording so you are a Nazi.

The good thing is that people get resistant to it....

Hmm. Well, I know all about these secret Nazi codes having watched those true to life series Allo, Allo and Hogan's Heroes. I don't need to know anymore.

In respect to the use of the phrase in TVF,it is inappropriate if it is actually a term used to refer to people of African descent, to direct at whities. I would think most Afro heritage folks would consider being lumped in with TVFers as quite a nasty insult.

[pattayadingo]

I recently read that thread where you berated a member for using that term and i must admit I have no idea why you consider the phrase racist. Maybe an American thing ? certainly not heard of any problems using the term in the UK.

I would have no hesitation using "You People".. it means nothing to me other than addressing a group of people. PC gone wrong imo.

Maybe in your language it is considered offensive, but certainly in mine I would be surprised if it raised eye brows!

Unless the term is directed at certain groups of people in a negative & derogatory way, such as at Indians / Pakistanis / Blacks etc.

In a neutral way it cannot be perceived as being racist.

[edwinclapham]

I recently read that thread where you berated a member for using that term and i must admit I have no idea why you consider the phrase racist. Maybe an American thing ? certainly not heard of any problems using the term in the UK.

I would have no hesitation using "You People".. it means nothing to me other than addressing a group of people. PC gone wrong imo.

Maybe in your language it is considered offensive, but certainly in mine I would be surprised if it raised eye brows!

Unless the term is directed at certain groups of people in a negative & derogatory way, such as at Indians / Pakistanis / Blacks etc.

In a neutral way it cannot be perceived as being racist.

Agree! You People in Pattaya are so damned intelligent !!

[hookedondhamma]

In the states if you said "you people" to a black person or any minority for that matter - that person would take offense. It's just a phrase that you wouldn't routinely use.

Once again, it varies person to person. I've never been offended when someone used that phrase around me. Nor were any of my fellow employees or others in the company which I worked at.

Also, by following that reason, any and every ethnic group would take offense. Fortunately though, not everyone is the same, and perception of what is offensive and not varies from person to person.

And by the way, I'm a black person from the States. Not to be mistaken for representing the entire black population in the States, by the way.

[chiang mai]

I recently read that thread where you berated a member for using that term and i must admit I have no idea why you consider the phrase racist. Maybe an American thing ? certainly not heard of any problems using the term in the UK.

I would have no hesitation using "You People".. it means nothing to me other than addressing a group of people. PC gone wrong imo.

Maybe in your language it is considered offensive, but certainly in mine I would be surprised if it raised eye brows!

Unless the term is directed at certain groups of people in a negative & derogatory way, such as at Indians / Pakistanis / Blacks etc.

In a neutral way it cannot be perceived as being racist.

But what to do when you don't know the ethnicty of your audience and said audience might be very large, would you take a punt and go with it or would you ere on the side of caution and not use that phrase?

[rijb]

Maybe you could switch to y'all ... (It's a southern thing - and don't call them yanks!)

[chiang mai]

In the states if you said "you people" to a black person or any minority for that matter - that person would take offense. It's just a phrase that you wouldn't routinely use.

Once again, it varies person to person. I've never been offended when someone used that phrase around me. Nor were any of my fellow employees or others in the company which I worked at.

Also, by following that reason, any and every ethnic group would take offense. Fortunately though, not everyone is the same, and perception of what is offensive and not varies from person to person.

And by the way, I'm a black person from the States. Not to be mistaken for representing the entire black population in the States, by the way.

Interesting indeed, thanks for that.

[aussiebebe]

It's hard to use the phrase 'you people' and come off seeming nice, it's usually a racist slur - I think it all the time about Thais while I'm in Thailand but wouldn't say it out loud so as not to cause offense. If not racist it's a loaded or pejorative phrase, the speaker is being condescending or showing disapproval - you wouldn't say it if you wanted to be seen as a team player, would you?

[chiang mai]

Only some uptight PC <deleted> could get offended by the term "You people".

You people need to get a life.

Thanks for sharing.

[hookedondhamma]

I recently read that thread where you berated a member for using that term and i must admit I have no idea why you consider the phrase racist. Maybe an American thing ? certainly not heard of any problems using the term in the UK.

I would have no hesitation using "You People".. it means nothing to me other than addressing a group of people. PC gone wrong imo.

Maybe in your language it is considered offensive, but certainly in mine I would be surprised if it raised eye brows!

Unless the term is directed at certain groups of people in a negative & derogatory way, such as at Indians / Pakistanis / Blacks etc.

In a neutral way it cannot be perceived as being racist.

But what to do when you don't know the ethnicty of your audience and said audience might be very large, would you take a punt and go with it or would you ere on the side of caution and not use that phrase?

Sometimes we speak from a base with good intentions, and sometimes the listener comprehends it as the opposite. If anyone got that riled up I'm sure (if they weren't Thai) they'd probably let you know, and more than likely give you a solution for the next time.

It'd be nice if we all could get along, but that just isn't possible. Sometimes, no matter how hard we try, there will always be opposition somehow. But making sure intentions are sincere and genuine is what can help you breathe easy at the end of the day.

[mauGR1]

It might be derogatory if spoken in a derogatory tone, just my perception of non-English mother language.

[pattayadingo]

I recently read that thread where you berated a member for using that term and i must admit I have no idea why you consider the phrase racist. Maybe an American thing ? certainly not heard of any problems using the term in the UK.

I would have no hesitation using "You People".. it means nothing to me other than addressing a group of people. PC gone wrong imo.

Maybe in your language it is considered offensive, but certainly in mine I would be surprised if it raised eye brows!

Unless the term is directed at certain groups of people in a negative & derogatory way, such as at Indians / Pakistanis / Blacks etc.

In a neutral way it cannot be perceived as being racist.

But what to do when you don't know the ethnicty of your audience and said audience might be very large, would you take a punt and go with it or would you ere on the side of caution and not use that phrase?

I would generally expect to know the ethnicity of the person I was talking to and it would not matter if it were a large or small community.

Depending on the topic of conversation would generally dictate when and how I used that phrase. Not so much a case of caution but one of common sense.

[chiang mai]

It's hard to use the phrase 'you people' and come off seeming nice, it's usually a racist slur - I think it all the time about Thais while I'm in Thailand but wouldn't say it out loud so as not to cause offense. If not racist it's a loaded or pejorative phrase, the speaker is being condescending or showing disapproval - you wouldn't say it if you wanted to be seen as a team player, would you?

Yes, that's kinda where I'm comming from also. For my part I would never use the phrase simply because there is doubt about what it implies and because of my prior experiences in a multi-racial environement where one had to be extremely careful with their choice of words.

[hookedondhamma]

It's hard to use the phrase 'you people' and come off seeming nice, it's usually a racist slur - I think it all the time about Thais while I'm in Thailand but wouldn't say it out loud so as not to cause offense. If not racist it's a loaded or pejorative phrase, the speaker is being condescending or showing disapproval - you wouldn't say it if you wanted to be seen as a team player, would you?

I've actually heard the phrase turned inside out many a time while being in Thailand, and noticed it quite a bit because it's something I've never heard nearly as much as in the States: 'kon rao' this, 'kon rao' that. So I've never seen a problem using the 'you people' here. Though I don't see it in a derogatory way (anymore), 'falang' is the equivalent of 'you people' in Thai (not to be taken literally).

Naturally things seem fairly relaxed (or at least the area I live in) - where else can you give lady 'pig' as a nickname and she won't slap the crazy out of you?

Edited July 9, 2012 by hookedondhamma

[chiang mai]

I would generally expect to know the ethnicity of the person I was talking to and it would not matter if it were a large or small community.

Depending on the topic of conversation would generally dictate when and how I used that phrase. Not so much a case of caution but one of common sense.

On Thai Visa for example? And I'm not trying to build a case or anything similar here, I'm just trying to explore what people think on this subject.

[brit1984]

It is acceptable but could obviously be used in a derogatory manner.

I have mostly heard it in the comedy context of "you people make me sick...".

I can't see any connection with racism.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[h90]

One of the things I appreciate most about livng in Thailand and no longer USA is that I don't have to watch every word I say for fear of not being "PC."

Sent from my HTC ChaCha A810e using Thaivisa Connect App

The same in Germany and Austria.....If you tell that the Highway to the west is good, than you are almost a Nazi (Hitler built it). If you order 3 Beer it is some code, Number 88 is some Nazi code. Almost anything containing honor is Nazi.....

You can almost say anything the PC will find a Nazi who told the same and make up a story that you are using the same wording so you are a Nazi.

The good thing is that people get resistant to it....

Hmm. Well, I know all about these secret Nazi codes having watched those true to life series Allo, Allo and Hogan's Heroes. I don't need to know anymore.

In respect to the use of the phrase in TVF,it is inappropriate if it is actually a term used to refer to people of African descent, to direct at whities. I would think most Afro heritage folks would consider being lumped in with TVFers as quite a nasty insult.

It is just inappropriate for people who use it with that purpose. I heard about it the first time and I would have used it without hesitation, just because I didn't know before.

If someone is insulted by some normal language used without intention to insult he is an idi*t and deserve to be insulted.

If we cut out every term that was used in an ugly way than nothing is left of an language.

And I don't understand why people are so sensitive...Call me whity, long nose, Farang or whatever, I don't care much.

[Berkshire]

It's really a matter of context, tone, audience, etc. For example, if I was trying to convince a bunch of my wayward and misinformed farang friends that the term "farang" is not offensive, I might saying something to the effect..."you people are nuts!" (Note: This is a made-up example as I do not have any farang friends who would be offended by the term. TV, on the other hand....)

However, if I was a Plant Manager in a US factory and several African-American employees were in my office discussing racial discrimination, and I uttered "you people are amazing!" in a negative, condescending sort of way, then it would be incredibly racist.

In Thailand, the Thais would most likely not find this offensive. About the only English word Thais may be upset with is the "F" word, and even then, it depends on the situation.

[zzdocxx]

What you people don't realize, is that -- ooops sorry! ! !

I didn't mean it that way, honestly.

Eh, I was looking for that emoticon called :jap: , it was a little guy in coolie hat bowing, but was removed so as to not be offensive.

^ OK here is yohan instead, looks kinda German doesn't he?