Many Industrial Estates In Thailand Still Not Flood-Proof

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Many industrial estates still not flood-proof

The Nation

Barriers at key sites in Ayutthaya, Pathum Thani not finished

BANGKOK: -- Concern is mounting at many industrial estates in Ayutthaya and Pathum Thani, with construction of floodwalls around the compounds not yet completed ahead of the rainy season.

Local business operators and estate officials are preparing contingency plans for factories in case construction is not completed in time to protect against a repeat of heavy rains that brought last year's devastating floods.

Last year's flood crisis caused havoc at many industrial estates, particularly those in Ayutthaya and Pathum Thani, many of which are still recovering from the disaster.

Veerapong Chaiperm, governor of the Industrial Estate Authority of Thailand (IEAT), said construction of floodwalls at certain industrial estates such as Saha Ratna Nakorn, had been behind schedule for months. He said construction was unlikely to be completed by the due date of August 31.

"About 10 per cent of operators in the Saha Ratna Nakorn Industrial Estate are worried about possible flooding this year," Veerapong said.

He said those operators asked the IEAT to acquire land outside the industrial estate for possible relocation of their factories if necessary.

Prayoon Tingthong, Ayutthaya's chief industry official, blamed the delay in wall construction at Saha Ratna Nakorn on management problems.

He said the government provided Bt200 million to build concrete floodwalls around Saha Ratna Nakorn, adding that the IEAT would take over construction supervision if the estate's management were found to have no clear plans for flood prevention.

After the delay, many business operators inside the industrial estate had expressed fears about possible flooding again this year, said Prayoon. They have requested that the IEAT prepare for possible relocation of their factories to areas in Prachin Buri, Chon Buri and Chachoengsao.

Construction of floodwalls in five industrial estates in Ayutthaya and Pathum Thani is 50-60 per cent completed, with all work expected to be completed on August 31, according to the official. He added that the Ministry of Industry remained confident there would be no problems involving the construction.

However, among those voicing concern was the operator of a small factory at the Nava Nakorn Industrial Estate in Pathum Thani.

"The factory operators all have a Plan B. We do not want to rely on the executives of the industrial estate," he said, adding that factory machines would be relocated if there were any signs of a flood in the area.

In Ayutthaya, construction of 99 kilometres of floodwalls surrounding the industrial estates of Bang Pa-in, Hi-Tech and Rojana is about 70-per-cent completed.

Only the Factory Land estate has seen completion of construction, said Prayoon.

The walls are about 50 centimetres higher than the highest levels reached by flood water last year.

-- The Nation 2012-07-11

[Thai at Heart]

Once again, what I'd the point in the point in the main factory being underwater if even one of the suppliers and the roads are under.

For guarantee they ALL have to move to eastern seaboard.

[whybother]

Once again, what I'd the point in the point in the main factory being underwater if even one of the suppliers and the roads are under.

For guarantee they ALL have to move to eastern seaboard.

If the factory is not flooded they can get back to work as soon as the flooding subsides. Also, the idea would be that suppliers don't get flooded either.

Sent from my shoe phone

[Thai at Heart]

Once again, what I'd the point in the point in the main factory being underwater if even one of the suppliers and the roads are under.

For guarantee they ALL have to move to eastern seaboard.

If the factory is not flooded they can get back to work as soon as the flooding subsides. Also, the idea would be that suppliers don't get flooded either.

Sent from my shoe phone

No way all the suppliers are inside the estates. From the smallest circuit to the packaging, many suppliers are sme based outside the large estates.

It doesn't really make any difference if the factory is dry if the widget suppliers are under water for a month. It all stops. Then in the added mess of logistics when say the ringroad goes under so you can't shop out.

Eastern seaboard s stayed dry and always probably will. Problem is it is too dry. They lack enough water currently for a big expansion of certain industries.

[whybother]

Once again, what I'd the point in the point in the main factory being underwater if even one of the suppliers and the roads are under.

For guarantee they ALL have to move to eastern seaboard.

If the factory is not flooded they can get back to work as soon as the flooding subsides. Also, the idea would be that suppliers don't get flooded either.

Sent from my shoe phone

No way all the suppliers are inside the estates. From the smallest circuit to the packaging, many suppliers are sme based outside the large estates.

It doesn't really make any difference if the factory is dry if the widget suppliers are under water for a month. It all stops. Then in the added mess of logistics when say the ringroad goes under so you can't shop out.

Eastern seaboard s stayed dry and always probably will. Problem is it is too dry. They lack enough water currently for a big expansion of certain industries.

If they're smaller suppliers, the parts they're supplying can of be sourced from somewhere else relatively easily.

I'm not saying this will cover everyone, but getting your operation up and running immediately the floods have gone is much better than having to replace all your machine.

Flooding also happens on the ESB, but ofcourse not to the same extent.

Sent from my shoe phone

[Thai at Heart]

Once again, what I'd the point in the point in the main factory being underwater if even one of the suppliers and the roads are under.

For guarantee they ALL have to move to eastern seaboard.

If the factory is not flooded they can get back to work as soon as the flooding subsides. Also, the idea would be that suppliers don't get flooded either.

Sent from my shoe phone

No way all the suppliers are inside the estates. From the smallest circuit to the packaging, many suppliers are sme based outside the large estates.

It doesn't really make any difference if the factory is dry if the widget suppliers are under water for a month. It all stops. Then in the added mess of logistics when say the ringroad goes under so you can't shop out.

Eastern seaboard s stayed dry and always probably will. Problem is it is too dry. They lack enough water currently for a big expansion of certain industries.

If they're smaller suppliers, the parts they're supplying can of be sourced from somewhere else relatively easily.

I'm not saying this will cover everyone, but getting your operation up and running immediately the floods have gone is much better than having to replace all your machine.

Flooding also happens on the ESB, but ofcourse not to the same extent.

Sent from my shoe phone

Well lets see, with just in time delivery being the mantra for Japanese manufacturers, if say the flooding is half the level of what it was last year, how long it would take for the main plants to stop. Many of the larger suppliers for example Thai Stanley aren't in an estate, and they supply lights and electrics for all the big car manufacturers.

Less than a week I reckon. It is of largely no use if the trucks can't get in and out of the place anyway, and basically everywhere north of Rangsit was largely impassable for 2 months last year from any direction. Maybe the companies can lease a few cross channel hover craft for deliveries. So I reckon the factories would be sitting in glorious isolation and the parts couldn't even get delivered. It really doesn't make a difference if the water depth is 15 cm or 1.5m, anyone want to operate machinery standing in water?

The walls are just a sticking plaster if it gets even remotely as bad as last year, which we all hope wont happen. But statistics are made to be broken, and with a science genius as Plodprasop at the top not even able to understand the significance of a 25/50 and 100 year flood, it is as likely to happen this, or next year as in 100 years.

[whybother]

Well lets see, with just in time delivery being the mantra for Japanese manufacturers, if say the flooding is half the level of what it was last year, how long it would take for the main plants to stop. Many of the larger suppliers for example Thai Stanley aren't in an estate, and they supply lights and electrics for all the big car manufacturers.

Less than a week I reckon. It is of largely no use if the trucks can't get in and out of the place anyway, and basically everywhere north of Rangsit was largely impassable for 2 months last year from any direction. Maybe the companies can lease a few cross channel hover craft for deliveries. So I reckon the factories would be sitting in glorious isolation and the parts couldn't even get delivered. It really doesn't make a difference if the water depth is 15 cm or 1.5m, anyone want to operate machinery standing in water?

The walls are just a sticking plaster if it gets even remotely as bad as last year, which we all hope wont happen. But statistics are made to be broken, and with a science genius as Plodprasop at the top not even able to understand the significance of a 25/50 and 100 year flood, it is as likely to happen this, or next year as in 100 years.

"was largely impassable for 2 months"

And factories that got flooded were out of action for another 6 months. What would you rather? 2 months or 8 months?

I didn't say that they could operate if there was flooding, whether the factory was flooded or not. But they're better off NOT being flooded and not being able to produce while flooding is around them, than being flooded and not being able to produce for 6 months after the flooding has gone.

They also need to make sure their supply chains are protected or that there are alternatives. If they are specialist part suppliers and the parts can't be sourced from elsewhere, then they should be making sure they don't get flooded either.

[Thai at Heart]

Well lets see, with just in time delivery being the mantra for Japanese manufacturers, if say the flooding is half the level of what it was last year, how long it would take for the main plants to stop. Many of the larger suppliers for example Thai Stanley aren't in an estate, and they supply lights and electrics for all the big car manufacturers.

Less than a week I reckon. It is of largely no use if the trucks can't get in and out of the place anyway, and basically everywhere north of Rangsit was largely impassable for 2 months last year from any direction. Maybe the companies can lease a few cross channel hover craft for deliveries. So I reckon the factories would be sitting in glorious isolation and the parts couldn't even get delivered. It really doesn't make a difference if the water depth is 15 cm or 1.5m, anyone want to operate machinery standing in water?

The walls are just a sticking plaster if it gets even remotely as bad as last year, which we all hope wont happen. But statistics are made to be broken, and with a science genius as Plodprasop at the top not even able to understand the significance of a 25/50 and 100 year flood, it is as likely to happen this, or next year as in 100 years.

"was largely impassable for 2 months"

And factories that got flooded were out of action for another 6 months. What would you rather? 2 months or 8 months?

I didn't say that they could operate if there was flooding, whether the factory was flooded or not. But they're better off NOT being flooded and not being able to produce while flooding is around them, than being flooded and not being able to produce for 6 months after the flooding has gone.

They also need to make sure their supply chains are protected or that there are alternatives. If they are specialist part suppliers and the parts can't be sourced from elsewhere, then they should be making sure they don't get flooded either.

I know that Canon for example has been talking to its suppliers to get out of the flood zone completely, and they are opening a new factory in 304. Perfect solution, they are unlikely to EVER have a problem again. As for the rest, they risk being out of action for 2 months a year every year, unless they and their supply chain get away from the areas North of Bangkok. They can choose either, it is no skin off my teeth, but moving to me, particularly when they are all likely to get some kind of insurance payout anyway, is by far the best alternative. Risking losing 2 months production (at a good estimate) is too much of a risk.

I really can't believe that if I was the manager of one of these plants talking to head office, and the boss asked me, should we move, or do you believe we will have uninterrupted operations, that I wouldn't say, we should move, and I believe many, despite having a wall built will decamp to the eastern seaboard, and further afield than that.

[whybother]

I know that Canon for example has been talking to its suppliers to get out of the flood zone completely, and they are opening a new factory in 304. Perfect solution, they are unlikely to EVER have a problem again. As for the rest, they risk being out of action for 2 months a year every year, unless they and their supply chain get away from the areas North of Bangkok. They can choose either, it is no skin off my teeth, but moving to me, particularly when they are all likely to get some kind of insurance payout anyway, is by far the best alternative. Risking losing 2 months production (at a good estimate) is too much of a risk.

I really can't believe that if I was the manager of one of these plants talking to head office, and the boss asked me, should we move, or do you believe we will have uninterrupted operations, that I wouldn't say, we should move, and I believe many, despite having a wall built will decamp to the eastern seaboard, and further afield than that.

I suppose that depends on the risk factors. If they decide that the risk of being out of action for 2 months every year is likely, then they will take that into consideration.

How many times in the last 10 years have they been out of action for 2 months in the year? I am not saying that it won't happen again, but the risks would be weighed up against the costs of relocating. Those risks are also being reduced by using the protection barriers. Whether that works or not is something that they will need to assess.

[Thai at Heart]

I know that Canon for example has been talking to its suppliers to get out of the flood zone completely, and they are opening a new factory in 304. Perfect solution, they are unlikely to EVER have a problem again. As for the rest, they risk being out of action for 2 months a year every year, unless they and their supply chain get away from the areas North of Bangkok. They can choose either, it is no skin off my teeth, but moving to me, particularly when they are all likely to get some kind of insurance payout anyway, is by far the best alternative. Risking losing 2 months production (at a good estimate) is too much of a risk.

I really can't believe that if I was the manager of one of these plants talking to head office, and the boss asked me, should we move, or do you believe we will have uninterrupted operations, that I wouldn't say, we should move, and I believe many, despite having a wall built will decamp to the eastern seaboard, and further afield than that.

I suppose that depends on the risk factors. If they decide that the risk of being out of action for 2 months every year is likely, then they will take that into consideration.

How many times in the last 10 years have they been out of action for 2 months in the year? I am not saying that it won't happen again, but the risks would be weighed up against the costs of relocating. Those risks are also being reduced by using the protection barriers. Whether that works or not is something that they will need to assess.

Well, it is their jobs on the line, not mine.

[whybother]

I know that Canon for example has been talking to its suppliers to get out of the flood zone completely, and they are opening a new factory in 304. Perfect solution, they are unlikely to EVER have a problem again. As for the rest, they risk being out of action for 2 months a year every year, unless they and their supply chain get away from the areas North of Bangkok. They can choose either, it is no skin off my teeth, but moving to me, particularly when they are all likely to get some kind of insurance payout anyway, is by far the best alternative. Risking losing 2 months production (at a good estimate) is too much of a risk.

I really can't believe that if I was the manager of one of these plants talking to head office, and the boss asked me, should we move, or do you believe we will have uninterrupted operations, that I wouldn't say, we should move, and I believe many, despite having a wall built will decamp to the eastern seaboard, and further afield than that.

I suppose that depends on the risk factors. If they decide that the risk of being out of action for 2 months every year is likely, then they will take that into consideration.

How many times in the last 10 years have they been out of action for 2 months in the year? I am not saying that it won't happen again, but the risks would be weighed up against the costs of relocating. Those risks are also being reduced by using the protection barriers. Whether that works or not is something that they will need to assess.

Well, it is their jobs on the line, not mine.

Well I don't think it's the plant managers that would be making the decision to move or not.

[Thai at Heart]

Well I don't think it's the plant managers that would be making the decision to move or not.

In the context of foreign firms I think they would probably canvas his opinion.

[whybother]

Well I don't think it's the plant managers that would be making the decision to move or not.

In the context of foreign firms I think they would probably canvas his opinion.

Then they would look at the bottom line and ignore his opinion.

[meatboy]

if any of the big boys get flooded this year i can see mass exodus,we know the saying prevention is better than cure,the thai way is let it happen first.

[Thai at Heart]

Well I don't think it's the plant managers that would be making the decision to move or not.

In the context of foreign firms I think they would probably canvas his opinion.

Then they would look at the bottom line and ignore his opinion.

if they can afford to run a profitable company at only 10 or 9 months operation, they must have a pretty amazing company.

“There is only so much they can do to make up for the losses from the Thai floods” as Toyota was producing at full capacity to make up for output lost to the Japan earthquake, said Koji Endo, an auto analyst at Advanced Research Japan who estimates that a three-month disruption may cut the automaker’s operating profit by 200 billion ye

And Toyota didn't even go under water.

n.

[whybother]

if they can afford to run a profitable company at only 10 or 9 months operation, they must have a pretty amazing company.

They probably can't afford to do that every year, or probably every 5 years, but they would look at the risks of it happening to that extent again (or within a time frame), and the costs of relocating and make a financial decision.

[Thai at Heart]

if they can afford to run a profitable company at only 10 or 9 months operation, they must have a pretty amazing company.

They probably can't afford to do that every year, or probably every 5 years, but they would look at the risks of it happening to that extent again (or within a time frame), and the costs of relocating and make a financial decision.

Of course it is all statistical risk. Unfortunately, calculating the predictive competence of the Thai government into any model complicates the issue somewhat:-) . I wonder what premiums they have to pay for insurance this year?

[swillowbee]

... if and when the flood waters threaten again this year, how it is dealt with by government agencies (under Toxin's command, doubtlessly) will reveal a great deal about the Phue Thai Party's political situation ... most everything going on here is all about politics.

... even if modern-world stormwater management systems are absent or incomplete, government agencies will undoubtedly have some measure of floodwater control ... assuming they cannot control it all (a reasonable assumption) my bet is decisions will have to be made between diverting floodwaters:

• To save large swaths of populated areas; or,
  
• To save the still unprotected industrial areas.
  

... it is a Clausewitz-ian dilema in which the Phue Thai government cannot win ... which they choose will say much about Thai politicians (Toxin, specifically) and their values.

... my bet ... the flooding of large populations of poor Thais would end Toxin's popularity with a large percentage of the masses ... we saw the poor prai's response when BKK was saved from flooding at the upcountry poor's expense ... a flood event could sever the allegiance of the rank and file and herald the end of the Phue Thai Party ... add to that, internecine political fractures elsewhere in Toxin's support are now appearing.

... so, Thailand's manufacturing sector might well be sacrificed, and they are probably correct to prepare to abandon their factories again.

... it would be great if flooding would not visit upon us again this year, but that seems improbable becasue of a still incomplete Thai stormwater management system ... if it does flood, it seems that the Phue Thai Party could be fatally damaged.

... only time and the monsoons will tell, for the Thai government surely will not tell ... seems flooding might largely be out of the hands of the Thai government ... once again.

Edited July 11, 2012 by swillowbee

[Katipo]

Dykes are 50cm higher than the flood waters of last year? That seems a little overly confident.

[Schuimpge]

if they can afford to run a profitable company at only 10 or 9 months operation, they must have a pretty amazing company.

They probably can't afford to do that every year, or probably every 5 years, but they would look at the risks of it happening to that extent again (or within a time frame), and the costs of relocating and make a financial decision.

As for Canon, they had a plant in Korat already, started couple of years ago after deciding that Hanoi could not produce fast enough.

So what Canon has been doing is:

1. Flood Barriers around the Hi-Tech plant, keep producing there with a calculated risk.

2. Have the Nakornratchima, Korat plant as emergency backup if Hi-Tech would get isolated due to floods.

3. Have a contingency plan for critical equipment to move it to Korat and keep using them if it would come to flood again.

4. Renting extra warehouse-space in Korat for supplies and finished goods.

5. I've not heard anything about 304 to be honest.

My factory is located in Navanakorn. To me, it does not make sense to move because:

1. The floods of last year where (in my opinion) caused largely by gross mismanagement of Dams.

2. The subsequent flooding of Industrial Estates where largely caused by totally inadequate Earth Dams that where only capable of withstanding short-term flood-waters (Flash Floods if you wish). Anything longer than a couple of days undermined each of these dike's foundations and simply blew through it.

3. As for Navanakorn, the North and West side are largely done for the sheet-piling and will sure be finished in time. Main road (Tesco-BigC-Hospital is under construction, as is the south side). This sheet-piling dam will stop easily anything like last years flood and more.

4. Given that the main road was hardly flooded more than a few days, access to Navanakorn is no issue.

Overall, I don't expect anything serious happening this year or even next year. After that, we'll have to get more cautious as we all know how short-lived most Thai memories are.

[Moruya]

Once again, what I'd the point in the point in the main factory being underwater if even one of the suppliers and the roads are under.

For guarantee they ALL have to move to eastern seaboard.

If the factory is not flooded they can get back to work as soon as the flooding subsides. Also, the idea would be that suppliers don't get flooded either.

Sent from my shoe phone

It's an improvement. But it still sucks.

SSD took a big leap forward when the HDD supply was cattle trucked - and a lot of PC makers are now using 128GB SSD as the base now. That means companies like Western Digital and Seagate lost business that will never be recovered

[Moruya]

Dykes are 50cm higher than the flood waters of last year? That seems a little overly confident.

They must be having dietary supplements

[Schuimpge]

Dykes are 50cm higher than the flood waters of last year? That seems a little overly confident.

They must be having dietary supplements

They calculated that more than 50cm would save it here but flood Bangkok's HiSo Burberry boots.

So they've kept it at only 50cm...

Seen companies here in Navanakorn building their own flood walls. Giffarine is pretty much finished at about 1 meter above last year's flood, but Belton's wall is impressive.

I Estimate at about 4 meters above the ground, which is 2 meters above last years flood level on that road with Tostem on the other side.

They are using concrete injection for the foundation, I guess because of sensitive machinery that can't stand the piling-earthquakes.

Above the ground it's all rebar and poored concrete. Fortress no less...

[Schuimpge]

Once again, what I'd the point in the point in the main factory being underwater if even one of the suppliers and the roads are under.

For guarantee they ALL have to move to eastern seaboard.

If the factory is not flooded they can get back to work as soon as the flooding subsides. Also, the idea would be that suppliers don't get flooded either.

Sent from my shoe phone

It's an improvement. But it still sucks.

SSD took a big leap forward when the HDD supply was cattle trucked - and a lot of PC makers are now using 128GB SSD as the base now. That means companies like Western Digital and Seagate lost business that will never be recovered

HDD market was constrained for sure, but to say no recovery / reversal for HDD's is a bit much for me to accept.

Fact is that Toshiba is heavily investing and expanding its HDD-production by moving everything to Philippines, WD expanding in Navanakorn by buying over Toshiba's factories there and Seagate having had the luck of picking up a lot of production from the other 2 due to their factories not being flooded at all. There's no decline in capacity. There's expansion, big time...

[Thai at Heart]

if they can afford to run a profitable company at only 10 or 9 months operation, they must have a pretty amazing company.

They probably can't afford to do that every year, or probably every 5 years, but they would look at the risks of it happening to that extent again (or within a time frame), and the costs of relocating and make a financial decision.

As for Canon, they had a plant in Korat already, started couple of years ago after deciding that Hanoi could not produce fast enough.

So what Canon has been doing is:

1. Flood Barriers around the Hi-Tech plant, keep producing there with a calculated risk.

2. Have the Nakornratchima, Korat plant as emergency backup if Hi-Tech would get isolated due to floods.

3. Have a contingency plan for critical equipment to move it to Korat and keep using them if it would come to flood again.

4. Renting extra warehouse-space in Korat for supplies and finished goods.

5. I've not heard anything about 304 to be honest.

My factory is located in Navanakorn. To me, it does not make sense to move because:

1. The floods of last year where (in my opinion) caused largely by gross mismanagement of Dams.

2. The subsequent flooding of Industrial Estates where largely caused by totally inadequate Earth Dams that where only capable of withstanding short-term flood-waters (Flash Floods if you wish). Anything longer than a couple of days undermined each of these dike's foundations and simply blew through it.

3. As for Navanakorn, the North and West side are largely done for the sheet-piling and will sure be finished in time. Main road (Tesco-BigC-Hospital is under construction, as is the south side). This sheet-piling dam will stop easily anything like last years flood and more.

4. Given that the main road was hardly flooded more than a few days, access to Navanakorn is no issue.

Overall, I don't expect anything serious happening this year or even next year. After that, we'll have to get more cautious as we all know how short-lived most Thai memories are.

Canon has broken ground in 304, very large. Whether it replaces the other one completely I don't know. Reportedly from friends of mine, several car parts suppliers are looking to move up there in the next few months. As I said, they probably can keep the estates dry, but the logistics of all the other issues, it it gets even half as bad as last year means inevitable stoppages of production.

[Moruya]

Once again, what I'd the point in the point in the main factory being underwater if even one of the suppliers and the roads are under.

For guarantee they ALL have to move to eastern seaboard.

If the factory is not flooded they can get back to work as soon as the flooding subsides. Also, the idea would be that suppliers don't get flooded either.

Sent from my shoe phone

It's an improvement. But it still sucks.

SSD took a big leap forward when the HDD supply was cattle trucked - and a lot of PC makers are now using 128GB SSD as the base now. That means companies like Western Digital and Seagate lost business that will never be recovered

HDD market was constrained for sure, but to say no recovery / reversal for HDD's is a bit much for me to accept.

Fact is that Toshiba is heavily investing and expanding its HDD-production by moving everything to Philippines, WD expanding in Navanakorn by buying over Toshiba's factories there and Seagate having had the luck of picking up a lot of production from the other 2 due to their factories not being flooded at all. There's no decline in capacity. There's expansion, big time...

When I say that I guess I should have qualified it with the laptop market where you see 64-128GB SSD a lot as the norm. Look at Dell's website for the standard configs.

I have 4 PCs/Servers at home all running the system side on SSD - and the only HDD I use is for storage (12TB enclosure RAID 50) with redundancy.

How much HDD is now going to the huge companies like Google purely as add-on storage rather than system use?

How many servers nowadays run the OS on SSD or even SD cards (I have seen these in RAID 1!!!)?

So I think the market dynamics have chnaged for sure.

[cdnski12]

LOS ... the next Testing Ground for Automobile Floatability. See Aqua Industrial Estates in BKK!

[MaxLee]

Why don't the Japanese investors and factory Chiefs get the hell out of Ayutthaya,... Building their factories there is a huge loss of investment on a yearly basis due to the floods. It's their own fault if they still keep insisting to build their factories there.