Red-Shirt Leader Korkaew Warns Of Civil War If Court Rules Against Amendments

[metisdead]

A nonsense baiting post has been removed as well as a response.

[Moruya]

I certainly don't regret any posts and did not remove them. You and your friends are perfectly happy with a situation where the democratically elected government is undermined by the judiciary and the army. Not everyone voted for PT, but their victory was decisive and the fact that the Dems lost seats showed the public sentiment towards them. No one at all voted for the judges on the CC, So why now are the Dems and the judges the ones impeding the elected government's progress? PT openly campaigned on the platform they would rewrite the 2007 coup sponsored constitution. The unelected military junta were able to rewrite it to their own agenda with no obstruction from the court, so why would a government of the people not be allowed to do the same? PT are in fact only proposing to set up a drafting committee which would be followed by a national referendum. If this is cause for the dissolution of the party, those who voted for the party have valid and substantial reason to believe it is just another chapter in the suppression of their rights by groups who are unwilling to relinquish their profitable grip on power.

The problem is that PTP are not 'ony proposing drafting committees'. In the process of forcing through their bills and amendment, without debate or consensus, PTP have also left democracy in the dust, and resorted to common fascism, threatening the lives of law-abiding working Thais. PTP are breaking human-rights laws, and Thai privacy-laws, and endangering the lives of innocent Thais by distributing home-addresses of dissenters to their angry street thugs.

PTP are trying to force through their own agenda, not a Thailand-improvement agenda, but a Freedom for Thaksin agenda, and they are willing to put this agenda as a higher priority than the lives of innocent Thais and their familes at home.

PTP are pushing through bills without any parliamentary debate, a corrupt PTP House Speaker who takes orders from foreign powers (treason) and rules in PTPs favour to hamstring the parliamentary process and neuter the central accountability-failsafes of democracy. Yingluck who doesn't even read the bills or attend debates, or vote, or visit parliament itself except on special occasions like birthdays and equinoxes. That is the background to your fallacious "only proposing draft committees". Background is very important. What they are 'only doing' is subverting democracy, and relying on threats and intimidation against anybody who opposes them, as a substitute for the due process of parliamentary debate and consensus-forming which they have avoided since they were elected.

Just because they included constitutional reform / Freedom for Thaksin etc. in their "openly campaigned platform" pre-election does not mean anything. That was just their campaign promises, along with "improving the lives of the poorest in society" which of course was just included for comedy-value , a sort of 'in-joke' among the PTP billionaire criminals in Dubai. "You think they'll believe this rural reform stuff? Who cares, it'll be a laugh. Send them some more dictator-face T-shirts, that seems to keep them happy."

Less than half of Thailand voted for PTP. I would say that means at least 50% of Thailand doesn't want any scabby PTP constitutional rewrites, or state-upheavals or the return of El Brigande as dictator. Most Thais certainly don't want human-rights abuse and overt law-breaking by the Government in the capital city, such as PTP are prone to.

You seem to mistake 'PTP getting 48% of the votes' for 'PTP being allowed to do whatever they want to do in office'. That is infact not the case. Being elected in democracy means you have a right to lead using the democratic tools of parliamentary debate and consensus-forming, reasoned discussion, bills and charters put through the state-system correctly and respectfully. It means (most importantly) that you have a solemn duty to protect ALL Thai citizens living within the democracy. It does not mean PTP can send fascist thugs round to the family homes of people who disagree with the regime, or threaten civil war when they don't get their way.

So what % of the people voted for the coup leaders? What % of the people voted for the Dems who derailed parliament with their childish antics? What % of people voted for Srimuang whose petition was accepted by the court? What % of the people voted for the CC judges? What we do know is that PT and their coalition partners have a 3:2 majority in parliament and they have the right to propose a constitutional rewrite. What you and others fail to address is that the court accepted this case as the rewrite is portrayed as an attempt to overthrow the constitutional monarchy. Even you realize this is utter cods wallop. PT know any such attempt would be their death nail and they are far too smart to go near that one. This is simply a statement by the elite and their mechanisms to once again undermine the electorate's power and ensure theirs.

How can PT be seen to be 'doing what they want' as you claim when they are proposing 1. An elected CDA and 2. A public referendum on any proposed changes? You and your ilk's accusations are simply unfoundered speculation.

What your crew don't get though, as you time and time again seriously misgauge the Thai sentiment, will be the populace's outrage at yet another blatant infringement of their democratic rights.

Who voted for korkeaw?

[Moruya]

no one voted for the tea party either.

The PTP and its coalition partners are the elected government. That is not a sham.

A government run by a convicted criminal fugitive in Dubai is not a sham?

Convicted by the same people who take full advantage of the current constitution,u know what is a shame?Yesterday an US citizen got released from a Thai prison,he was in jail because of the current constitution.Coupleaders from 2006 get free,because they changed the constitution in their favor.In germany right now the highest court has to decide if the fiscalpact and ESM,is against german constitution,Current german government put pressure on the courts decision by remarks like"if u decide this or that,this can happen"So if Korkaew warns what could happen after a negative[for ptp] decision.whats wrong with that?Did u forget the pictures from almost civil war in bkk 2010,it's a warning not a threat

What a load of bilge. The product of an I'll informed mind

[punisher]

no one voted for the tea party either.

The PTP and its coalition partners are the elected government. That is not a sham.

A government run by a convicted criminal fugitive in Dubai is not a sham?

Convicted by the same people who take full advantage of the current constitution,u know what is a shame?Yesterday an US citizen got released from a Thai prison,he was in jail because of the current constitution.Coupleaders from 2006 get free,because they changed the constitution in their favor.In germany right now the highest court has to decide if the fiscalpact and ESM,is against german constitution,Current german government put pressure on the courts decision by remarks like"if u decide this or that,this can happen"So if Korkaew warns what could happen after a negative[for ptp] decision.whats wrong with that?Did u forget the pictures from almost civil war in bkk 2010,it's a warning not a threat

What a load of bilge. The product of an I'll informed mind

Could u explain that in detail please?

[OzMick]

A government run by a convicted criminal fugitive in Dubai is not a sham?

Convicted by the same people who take full advantage of the current constitution,u know what is a shame?Yesterday an US citizen got released from a Thai prison,he was in jail because of the current constitution.Coupleaders from 2006 get free,because they changed the constitution in their favor.In germany right now the highest court has to decide if the fiscalpact and ESM,is against german constitution,Current german government put pressure on the courts decision by remarks like"if u decide this or that,this can happen"So if Korkaew warns what could happen after a negative[for ptp] decision.whats wrong with that?Did u forget the pictures from almost civil war in bkk 2010,it's a warning not a threat

What a load of bilge. The product of an I'll informed mind

Could u explain that in detail please?

Ms Merkel is an elected MP (by a constituency) and her warning of the fiscal effects of a court decision is hardly the same as a mercenary leader of a pack of armed thugs in an "almost civil war", given a party list MP position as a reward, now warning that the armed thugs he leads will destabilise the country if they do not get the result they require. The former is an informed opinion of possible consequences beyond her control, the latter is a thinly veiled threat. Perhaps the difference is too subtle.

[Skywalker69]

Like any rabid dog he needs to be put to sleep!

better jet, +1700 years in prison.

[Moruya]

Could u explain that in detail please?

The LM laws have nothing to do with the 2007 constitution.

The 2006 coup leader is in bed with the PTP writing his next amnesty as part of the amnesty bill.

The German constitution rightly says that Parliamentary decisions that affect certain areas such as sovereignty need to be approved by the upper house

[Yunla]

So what % of the people voted for the coup leaders? What % of the people voted for the Dems who derailed parliament with their childish antics? What % of people voted for Srimuang whose petition was accepted by the court? What % of the people voted for the CC judges? What we do know is that PT and their coalition partners have a 3:2 majority in parliament and they have the right to propose a constitutional rewrite. What you and others fail to address is that the court accepted this case as the rewrite is portrayed as an attempt to overthrow the constitutional monarchy. Even you realize this is utter cods wallop. PT know any such attempt would be their death nail and they are far too smart to go near that one. This is simply a statement by the elite and their mechanisms to once again undermine the electorate's power and ensure theirs.

How can PT be seen to be 'doing what they want' as you claim when they are proposing 1. An elected CDA and 2. A public referendum on any proposed changes? You and your ilk's accusations are simply unfoundered speculation.

What your crew don't get though, as you time and time again seriously misgauge the Thai sentiment, will be the populace's outrage at yet another blatant infringement of their democratic rights.

First up, I don't have a "crew" as you keep saying, I'm an entirely independent poster with no loyalty to anybody. I have previously said that Thais need to get rid of the whole 'shirts' thing of any colour, and that we need a whole new generation of progressive, reformist, parliamentary-democracy literate politicians in Thailand. This sentiment of "we are tired of red and yellow shirts" is actually a very popular sentiment among millions of educated Thais.

I have said I don't support Abhisit or DP or PAD, only that of the two options on the table DP is far less dangerous to Thailand than the organised-crime syndicate Shinawatra are.

From the dawn of human history it has been a struggle between independent humans seeking freedom and peace for their families, versus tyrannical leaders and organised-crime families, that situation has been going on for thousands of years and in 2011 Thailand, the free peaceful humans lost and the thugpower organised criminals won.

Again, you start talking about "the Thai sentiment" and "the people". PTP got around 38% of the Thai electorate when factored with turnout. You will need to invent a new word for the 62% who didn't vote PTP. Since those 62% of people are not "the people" or "Thai sentiment" what are they?

Once more, this is not a judicial affair today. The reconciliation bills and associated constitutional papers should have been stalled in parliament, for several reasons. The reason for this is that the proponents of the bills have committed several crimes during and relating to the attempts to enact their bills. Breaking the law while enacting bills automatically leads to a freeze of the bill process. The home-address scandal, and the revelation that the House Speaker is being given orders from foreign powers abroad, are both serious crimes committed by PTP in tandem with their efforts to bulldoze their undemocratic bills through at high speed. That should actually freeze the bills in their tracks until investigations have been carried out.

That would also remove pressure from judges, since the debating of bills is a political process first and foremost and currently the judges are being forced to bear the weight of the missing political debates that PTP avoided in parliament. You seem to miss the point that Yingluck should have read the bills, been in parliament regularly to defend and debate the bills. Abhisit repeatedly called for Yingluck to attend parliament and defend the bills. Abhisit even appealed in the media for her to do this. Yingluck has not done this. Coupled with the PTP crimes at the same time, this makes their whole bill package entirely corrupted, and their attempts to change the constitution even more so. Not breaking the law is central to being PM and being in the Cabinet. As you know Yingluck has a 10% voting record and an abysmal attendance record. Absenteeism is a serious cause for concern about the validity of her position and the legitimacy of her party's voice.

On a slightly different note, I also believe it is deeply offensive for a PM and ruling party, headed by billionaires, staffed by convicted criminals, to waste this much government time and effort on bills and reforms that are aimed solely at clearing the name of a brutal tyrant and organised criminal. Thailand needs massive infrastructure work and investment on almost every facet of society, that is the job that PTP were elected to do. But Yingluck doesn't show up for work, PTP waste a whole valuable year of parliamentary time fighting for Thaksin's innocence, meanwhile critical infrastructure, law&order and rural investment bills remain un-created and un-invested, as the country slides further backwards into the regressive feudal-dictatorial mire.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Yunla

[ThaiOats]

I certainly don't regret any posts and did not remove them. You and your friends are perfectly happy with a situation where the democratically elected government is undermined by the judiciary and the army. Not everyone voted for PT, but their victory was decisive and the fact that the Dems lost seats showed the public sentiment towards them. No one at all voted for the judges on the CC, So why now are the Dems and the judges the ones impeding the elected government's progress? PT openly campaigned on the platform they would rewrite the 2007 coup sponsored constitution. The unelected military junta were able to rewrite it to their own agenda with no obstruction from the court, so why would a government of the people not be allowed to do the same? PT are in fact only proposing to set up a drafting committee which would be followed by a national referendum. If this is cause for the dissolution of the party, those who voted for the party have valid and substantial reason to believe it is just another chapter in the suppression of their rights by groups who are unwilling to relinquish their profitable grip on power.

The problem is that PTP are not 'ony proposing drafting committees'. In the process of forcing through their bills and amendment, without debate or consensus, PTP have also left democracy in the dust, and resorted to common fascism, threatening the lives of law-abiding working Thais. PTP are breaking human-rights laws, and Thai privacy-laws, and endangering the lives of innocent Thais by distributing home-addresses of dissenters to their angry street thugs.

PTP are trying to force through their own agenda, not a Thailand-improvement agenda, but a Freedom for Thaksin agenda, and they are willing to put this agenda as a higher priority than the lives of innocent Thais and their familes at home.

PTP are pushing through bills without any parliamentary debate, a corrupt PTP House Speaker who takes orders from foreign powers (treason) and rules in PTPs favour to hamstring the parliamentary process and neuter the central accountability-failsafes of democracy. Yingluck who doesn't even read the bills or attend debates, or vote, or visit parliament itself except on special occasions like birthdays and equinoxes. That is the background to your fallacious "only proposing draft committees". Background is very important. What they are 'only doing' is subverting democracy, and relying on threats and intimidation against anybody who opposes them, as a substitute for the due process of parliamentary debate and consensus-forming which they have avoided since they were elected.

Just because they included constitutional reform / Freedom for Thaksin etc. in their "openly campaigned platform" pre-election does not mean anything. That was just their campaign promises, along with "improving the lives of the poorest in society" which of course was just included for comedy-value , a sort of 'in-joke' among the PTP billionaire criminals in Dubai. "You think they'll believe this rural reform stuff? Who cares, it'll be a laugh. Send them some more dictator-face T-shirts, that seems to keep them happy."

Less than half of Thailand voted for PTP. I would say that means at least 50% of Thailand doesn't want any scabby PTP constitutional rewrites, or state-upheavals or the return of El Brigande as dictator. Most Thais certainly don't want human-rights abuse and overt law-breaking by the Government in the capital city, such as PTP are prone to.

You seem to mistake 'PTP getting 48% of the votes' for 'PTP being allowed to do whatever they want to do in office'. That is infact not the case. Being elected in democracy means you have a right to lead using the democratic tools of parliamentary debate and consensus-forming, reasoned discussion, bills and charters put through the state-system correctly and respectfully. It means (most importantly) that you have a solemn duty to protect ALL Thai citizens living within the democracy. It does not mean PTP can send fascist thugs round to the family homes of people who disagree with the regime, or threaten civil war when they don't get their way.

So what % of the people voted for the coup leaders? What % of the people voted for the Dems who derailed parliament with their childish antics? What % of people voted for Srimuang whose petition was accepted by the court? What % of the people voted for the CC judges? What we do know is that PT and their coalition partners have a 3:2 majority in parliament and they have the right to propose a constitutional rewrite. What you and others fail to address is that the court accepted this case as the rewrite is portrayed as an attempt to overthrow the constitutional monarchy. Even you realize this is utter cods wallop. PT know any such attempt would be their death nail and they are far too smart to go near that one. This is simply a statement by the elite and their mechanisms to once again undermine the electorate's power and ensure theirs.

How can PT be seen to be 'doing what they want' as you claim when they are proposing 1. An elected CDA and 2. A public referendum on any proposed changes? You and your ilk's accusations are simply unfoundered speculation.

What your crew don't get though, as you time and time again seriously misgauge the Thai sentiment, will be the populace's outrage at yet another blatant infringement of their democratic rights.

So you're 100% positive they won't try to overthrow the monarchy are you? I hope you've been a good boy and been attending or watching the red-shirt rallies because there's quite a lot of rage going on there. You also know why some of them have been charged for les Majeste too right? Want me to provide some links for you so that you can sit and listen to what they've been saying about the ammarts (which goes as far as your imagination can take you)? Look at a known fact of who received a Human Development Lifetime Achievement Award, and who set a world record of receiving honorary university degrees, which are no small feats. What your precious red-shirt goons are preaching is all based on speculation without evidence.

[Skywalker69]

How can this man issue such patently obvious blatant threats to the Judiciary,and be allowed to get away with it?

In any other decent law abiding Countries he would be forced to stand down from the Party,and would probably lose his political career forever.

As Jatuporn and other Red Shirt leaders he thinks he is abowe the law.

[philw]

So what % of the people voted for the coup leaders? What % of the people voted for the Dems who derailed parliament with their childish antics? What % of people voted for Srimuang whose petition was accepted by the court? What % of the people voted for the CC judges? What we do know is that PT and their coalition partners have a 3:2 majority in parliament and they have the right to propose a constitutional rewrite. What you and others fail to address is that the court accepted this case as the rewrite is portrayed as an attempt to overthrow the constitutional monarchy. Even you realize this is utter cods wallop. PT know any such attempt would be their death nail and they are far too smart to go near that one. This is simply a statement by the elite and their mechanisms to once again undermine the electorate's power and ensure theirs.

How can PT be seen to be 'doing what they want' as you claim when they are proposing 1. An elected CDA and 2. A public referendum on any proposed changes? You and your ilk's accusations are simply unfoundered speculation.

What your crew don't get though, as you time and time again seriously misgauge the Thai sentiment, will be the populace's outrage at yet another blatant infringement of their democratic rights.

First up, I don't have a "crew" as you keep saying, I'm an entirely independent poster with no loyalty to anybody. I have previously said that Thais need to get rid of the whole 'shirts' thing of any colour, and that we need a whole new generation of progressive, reformist, parliamentary-democracy literate politicians in Thailand. This sentiment of "we are tired of red and yellow shirts" is actually a very popular sentiment among millions of educated Thais.

I have said I don't support Abhisit or DP or PAD, only that of the two options on the table DP is far less dangerous to Thailand than the organised-crime syndicate Shinawatra are.

From the dawn of human history it has been a struggle between independent humans seeking freedom and peace for their families, versus tyrannical leaders and organised-crime families, that situation has been going on for thousands of years and in 2011 Thailand, the free peaceful humans lost and the thugpower organised criminals won.

Again, you start talking about "the Thai sentiment" and "the people". PTP got around 38% of the Thai electorate when factored with turnout. You will need to invent a new word for the 62% who didn't vote PTP. Since those 62% of people are not "the people" or "Thai sentiment" what are they?

Once more, this is not a judicial affair today. The reconciliation bills and associated constitutional papers should have been stalled in parliament, for several reasons. The reason for this is that the proponents of the bills have committed several crimes during and relating to the attempts to enact their bills. Breaking the law while enacting bills automatically leads to a freeze of the bill process. The home-address scandal, and the revelation that the House Speaker is being given orders from foreign powers abroad, are both serious crimes committed by PTP in tandem with their efforts to bulldoze their undemocratic bills through at high speed. That should actually freeze the bills in their tracks until investigations have been carried out.

That would also remove pressure from judges, since the debating of bills is a political process first and foremost and currently the judges are being forced to bear the weight of the missing political debates that PTP avoided in parliament. You seem to miss the point that Yingluck should have read the bills, been in parliament regularly to defend and debate the bills. Abhisit repeatedly called for Yingluck to attend parliament and defend the bills. Abhisit even appealed in the media for her to do this. Yingluck has not done this. Coupled with the PTP crimes at the same time, this makes their whole bill package entirely corrupted, and their attempts to change the constitution even more so. Not breaking the law is central to being PM and being in the Cabinet. As you know Yingluck has a 10% voting record and an abysmal attendance record. Absenteeism is a serious cause for concern about the validity of her position and the legitimacy of her party's voice.

On a slightly different note, I also believe it is deeply offensive for a PM and ruling party, headed by billionaires, staffed by convicted criminals, to waste this much government time and effort on bills and reforms that are aimed solely at clearing the name of a brutal tyrant and organised criminal. Thailand needs massive infrastructure work and investment on almost every facet of society, that is the job that PTP were elected to do. But Yingluck doesn't show up for work, PTP waste a whole valuable year of parliamentary time fighting for Thaksin's innocence, meanwhile critical infrastructure, law&order and rural investment bills remain un-created and un-invested, as the country slides further backwards into the regressive feudal-dictatorial mire.

"...................The reason for this is that the proponents of the bills have committed several crimes during and relating to the attempts to enact their bills. Breaking the law while enacting bills automatically leads to a freeze of the bill process................."

Which laws have been broken ???

Love your last sentence, I thought they were trying to get out of the " regressive feudal-dictatorial mire" that has existed for the last very many years..............

Edited July 12, 2012 by philw

[punisher]

Could u explain that in detail please?

The LM laws have nothing to do with the 2007 constitution.

The 2006 coup leader is in bed with the PTP writing his next amnesty as part of the amnesty bill.

The German constitution rightly says that Parliamentary decisions that affect certain areas such as sovereignty need to be approved by the upper house

I did not say the LM laws has anything to do with 2007 constitution.And u r wrong,the german upper house has to wait now until german Constitution court says esm and and fiscal pact are not against german constituion,only if they say "ok"then the upperhouse can proceed and maybe approve.It tells me a lot if the 2006 coup leader now changed the bedroom again

[Yunla]

Which laws have been broken ???

A PTP government employee distributed a list of names and home-addresses of dissenting judges, to gang of UDD remob to cause intimidation and possibly worse. Breaking 'Thailand Privacy Laws' (enacted 2007 & 1997 approx), Asean privacy data laws (current and being enacted), Amnesty human rights laws (optional if you live in a dictatorship). PTP then refused to criticise, sack, investigate or punish the guilty PTP members involved, that is under 'harboring' and 'shielding' and 'complicity' laws. Incitement to cause harm and terrorism are also in there somewhere.

House Speaker admitted he is taking orders on how to perform his senior parliamentary role, from an unelected man in Dubai, a foreign power. That is treason.

I'm not even going to go into Yingluck's ethics-violations, conflict of interest, negligence, absenteeism or parliamentary contempt since the first two crimes at the top will do nicely on their own.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Yunla

[jerrysteve]

LAURENTBKK: Its called the usual course of Business

[metisdead]

Off topic posts have been removed as well as nonsense trolling posts and replies.

[kimamey]

When I dictator buys a majority in a Parliament, via any of dozens of mechanisms,

it is no less a dictatorship if 'the one tells the others how to vote, and they do',

than if it was 'just the one sending out decrees from an official gold-encrusted top office'.

Having the pre-signed resignation letters of the MP's in Parliament as a pre-requisite for getting backed enough to win, is the same as buying a parliamentary dictatorship. It likely also is high treason on the parts of all involved in most countries.

I've heard about these pre-signed resignation letters but wouldn't they need to be dated to be enforceable?

[Skywalker69]

The silence from the Government/PTP remarkable.

[philw]

Which laws have been broken ???

A PTP government employee distributed a list of names and home-addresses of dissenting judges, to gang of UDD remob to cause intimidation and possibly worse. Breaking 'Thailand Privacy Laws' (enacted 2007 & 1997 approx), Asean privacy data laws (current and being enacted), Amnesty human rights laws (optional if you live in a dictatorship). PTP then refused to criticise, sack, investigate or punish the guilty PTP members involved, that is under 'harboring' and 'shielding' and 'complicity' laws. Incitement to cause harm and terrorism are also in there somewhere.

House Speaker admitted he is taking orders on how to perform his senior parliamentary role, from an unelected man in Dubai, a foreign power. That is treason.

I'm not even going to go into Yingluck's ethics-violations, conflict of interest, negligence, absenteeism or parliamentary contempt since the first two crimes at the top will do nicely on their own.

But you fail to cite anything that is within the remit of the CC.

You are seemingly just propagandist.

Edited July 12, 2012 by philw

[Crushdepth]

The judicial branch in Thailand is independent of the other 2 branches. But that doesn't mean that it is not biased.

"These particular Courts are in place for keeping the checks and balances of government."

if that is true, then why did the court jump into a parliamentary debate where they have no jurisdiction? As you said, the branches should be independent. Was it because laws were broken? No. No laws have been broken and the process (amazingly!) does not accommodate any law breaking.

So the election was valid, and no laws have been broken, so what are you guys ranting about?

Oh yeah, redmob redmob, redmob, ...

Got it.

(BTW, give it up - not all voters, not in Isaan or elsewhere in Thailand, are uneducated, poor, and unable to comprehend the issues. This constant ranting about Thai people from people who demonstrate every day on this forum that they do not understand the issues is more than tiresome...)

Oh for god's sake, who are you to say the court has no jurisdiction? Expert on Thai law and constitution, are you? I'm pretty sure the judges are capable of making a reasonable decision about whether a case should be *considered* or not. The court will *decide* whether the law has been broken, that's what courts do.

The current charter does not permit carte blanche change. There are several aspects where change is specifically forbidden, and the complaint that the court is looking into specifically concerns those issues. But you knew that already.

What is tiresome is your continued slights against the integrity of the judiciary, while simultaneously ignoring the gaping chasm that is the the integrity of PTP and the 'red mob' leadership, and their blatant attempts to intimidate the judiciary. It's incredible.

Here's a clue for you: No governance, no democracy.

alright whiz-bang kid : which laws were broken?

do you read? do you understand the controversy about the court taking this decision? It's been well published.

when was the last time you heard of a court in your country stopping a parliamentary debate?

the complaint that the court decided to take up - against many legal experts interpretation of the process and using a 'logic' that has never before been invoked - is a complaint that is blatantly and wildly mis-representing the intention of the parliament. (but you knew that already...)

As for you and your comments about me "slighting the judiciary", just take a hike if you don't like it. Or better yet, if you think they are a bastion of unbiased judgments and integrity, then feel free to argue that point instead of telling me how tired you are. As for me, I feel that their well-documented record in judicial activism demonstrates otherwise.

Which law? The court is examining whether the proposed charter rewrite is *unconstitutional*, ie. whether this action is a breach of certain provisions of the charter or not. There are provisions to make complaints on certain issues, such complaints have been made, and the courts have agreed to *consider* the case. Note that word *consider*.

While you appear to struggle with the concept that Parliament may not do what they please, fact is that Parliament is explicitly *bound* by the judgement of this particular court. Apparently Puea Thai agree, because they they halted the debate in line with the court order. A bitter pill to swallow I'm sure.

Fortunately I come from a country that ranks pretty high on governance. But even there bills endorsed by Parliament have been known to be overturned by the courts on the basis that they are unconstitutional. More commonly they are withdrawn when it becomes apparent they are likely to go down in flames.

You seem to have neglected to comment on the integrity of Puea Thai and the 'red mob'. Can we assume that you hold them in higher esteem than the judiciary? Care to explain how intimidating judges fits in with your vision of "democracy"?

[Skywalker69]

The judicial branch in Thailand is independent of the other 2 branches. But that doesn't mean that it is not biased.

"These particular Courts are in place for keeping the checks and balances of government."

if that is true, then why did the court jump into a parliamentary debate where they have no jurisdiction? As you said, the branches should be independent. Was it because laws were broken? No. No laws have been broken and the process (amazingly!) does not accommodate any law breaking.

So the election was valid, and no laws have been broken, so what are you guys ranting about?

Oh yeah, redmob redmob, redmob, ...

Got it.

(BTW, give it up - not all voters, not in Isaan or elsewhere in Thailand, are uneducated, poor, and unable to comprehend the issues. This constant ranting about Thai people from people who demonstrate every day on this forum that they do not understand the issues is more than tiresome...)

Oh for god's sake, who are you to say the court has no jurisdiction? Expert on Thai law and constitution, are you? I'm pretty sure the judges are capable of making a reasonable decision about whether a case should be *considered* or not. The court will *decide* whether the law has been broken, that's what courts do.

The current charter does not permit carte blanche change. There are several aspects where change is specifically forbidden, and the complaint that the court is looking into specifically concerns those issues. But you knew that already.

What is tiresome is your continued slights against the integrity of the judiciary, while simultaneously ignoring the gaping chasm that is the the integrity of PTP and the 'red mob' leadership, and their blatant attempts to intimidate the judiciary. It's incredible.

Here's a clue for you: No governance, no democracy.

alright whiz-bang kid : which laws were broken?

do you read? do you understand the controversy about the court taking this decision? It's been well published.

when was the last time you heard of a court in your country stopping a parliamentary debate?

the complaint that the court decided to take up - against many legal experts interpretation of the process and using a 'logic' that has never before been invoked - is a complaint that is blatantly and wildly mis-representing the intention of the parliament. (but you knew that already...)

As for you and your comments about me "slighting the judiciary", just take a hike if you don't like it. Or better yet, if you think they are a bastion of unbiased judgments and integrity, then feel free to argue that point instead of telling me how tired you are. As for me, I feel that their well-documented record in judicial activism demonstrates otherwise.

Which law? The court is examining whether the proposed charter rewrite is *unconstitutional*, ie. whether this action is a breach of certain provisions of the charter or not. There are provisions to make complaints on certain issues, such complaints have been made, and the courts have agreed to *consider* the case. Note that word *consider*.

While you appear to struggle with the concept that Parliament may not do what they please, fact is that Parliament is explicitly *bound* by the judgement of this particular court. Apparently Puea Thai agree, because they they halted the debate in line with the court order. A bitter pill to swallow I'm sure.

Fortunately I come from a country that ranks pretty high on governance. But even there bills endorsed by Parliament have been known to be overturned by the courts on the basis that they are unconstitutional. More commonly they are withdrawn when it becomes apparent they are likely to go down in flames.

You seem to have neglected to comment on the integrity of Puea Thai and the 'red mob'. Can we assume that you hold them in higher esteem than the judiciary? Care to explain how intimidating judges fits in with your vision of "democracy"?

Good post.

[tlansford]

So what % of the people voted for the coup leaders? What % of the people voted for the Dems who derailed parliament with their childish antics? What % of people voted for Srimuang whose petition was accepted by the court? What % of the people voted for the CC judges? What we do know is that PT and their coalition partners have a 3:2 majority in parliament and they have the right to propose a constitutional rewrite. What you and others fail to address is that the court accepted this case as the rewrite is portrayed as an attempt to overthrow the constitutional monarchy. Even you realize this is utter cods wallop. PT know any such attempt would be their death nail and they are far too smart to go near that one. This is simply a statement by the elite and their mechanisms to once again undermine the electorate's power and ensure theirs.

How can PT be seen to be 'doing what they want' as you claim when they are proposing 1. An elected CDA and 2. A public referendum on any proposed changes? You and your ilk's accusations are simply unfoundered speculation.

What your crew don't get though, as you time and time again seriously misgauge the Thai sentiment, will be the populace's outrage at yet another blatant infringement of their democratic rights.

First up, I don't have a "crew" as you keep saying, I'm an entirely independent poster with no loyalty to anybody. I have previously said that Thais need to get rid of the whole 'shirts' thing of any colour, and that we need a whole new generation of progressive, reformist, parliamentary-democracy literate politicians in Thailand. This sentiment of "we are tired of red and yellow shirts" is actually a very popular sentiment among millions of educated Thais.

I have said I don't support Abhisit or DP or PAD, only that of the two options on the table DP is far less dangerous to Thailand than the organised-crime syndicate Shinawatra are.

From the dawn of human history it has been a struggle between independent humans seeking freedom and peace for their families, versus tyrannical leaders and organised-crime families, that situation has been going on for thousands of years and in 2011 Thailand, the free peaceful humans lost and the thugpower organised criminals won.

Again, you start talking about "the Thai sentiment" and "the people". PTP got around 38% of the Thai electorate when factored with turnout. You will need to invent a new word for the 62% who didn't vote PTP. Since those 62% of people are not "the people" or "Thai sentiment" what are they?

Once more, this is not a judicial affair today. The reconciliation bills and associated constitutional papers should have been stalled in parliament, for several reasons. The reason for this is that the proponents of the bills have committed several crimes during and relating to the attempts to enact their bills. Breaking the law while enacting bills automatically leads to a freeze of the bill process. The home-address scandal, and the revelation that the House Speaker is being given orders from foreign powers abroad, are both serious crimes committed by PTP in tandem with their efforts to bulldoze their undemocratic bills through at high speed. That should actually freeze the bills in their tracks until investigations have been carried out.

That would also remove pressure from judges, since the debating of bills is a political process first and foremost and currently the judges are being forced to bear the weight of the missing political debates that PTP avoided in parliament. You seem to miss the point that Yingluck should have read the bills, been in parliament regularly to defend and debate the bills. Abhisit repeatedly called for Yingluck to attend parliament and defend the bills. Abhisit even appealed in the media for her to do this. Yingluck has not done this. Coupled with the PTP crimes at the same time, this makes their whole bill package entirely corrupted, and their attempts to change the constitution even more so. Not breaking the law is central to being PM and being in the Cabinet. As you know Yingluck has a 10% voting record and an abysmal attendance record. Absenteeism is a serious cause for concern about the validity of her position and the legitimacy of her party's voice.

On a slightly different note, I also believe it is deeply offensive for a PM and ruling party, headed by billionaires, staffed by convicted criminals, to waste this much government time and effort on bills and reforms that are aimed solely at clearing the name of a brutal tyrant and organised criminal. Thailand needs massive infrastructure work and investment on almost every facet of society, that is the job that PTP were elected to do. But Yingluck doesn't show up for work, PTP waste a whole valuable year of parliamentary time fighting for Thaksin's innocence, meanwhile critical infrastructure, law&order and rural investment bills remain un-created and un-invested, as the country slides further backwards into the regressive feudal-dictatorial mire.

"...................The reason for this is that the proponents of the bills have committed several crimes during and relating to the attempts to enact their bills. Breaking the law while enacting bills automatically leads to a freeze of the bill process................."

Which laws have been broken ???

Love your last sentence, I thought they were trying to get out of the " regressive feudal-dictatorial mire" that has existed for the last very many years..............

I personally like the tired old 62% didn't vote for the ptp. It seems to me that these posters should go whole hog and add all the children and new born babies who didn't vote for the PTP and then they would get some where just barely north of "70% of the Thai people didn't vote for the PTP".

Although peaceful humans losing to thugpower organized criminals comes a close second.

[tlansford]

The judicial branch in Thailand is independent of the other 2 branches. But that doesn't mean that it is not biased.

"These particular Courts are in place for keeping the checks and balances of government."

if that is true, then why did the court jump into a parliamentary debate where they have no jurisdiction? As you said, the branches should be independent. Was it because laws were broken? No. No laws have been broken and the process (amazingly!) does not accommodate any law breaking.

So the election was valid, and no laws have been broken, so what are you guys ranting about?

Oh yeah, redmob redmob, redmob, ...

Got it.

(BTW, give it up - not all voters, not in Isaan or elsewhere in Thailand, are uneducated, poor, and unable to comprehend the issues. This constant ranting about Thai people from people who demonstrate every day on this forum that they do not understand the issues is more than tiresome...)

Oh for god's sake, who are you to say the court has no jurisdiction? Expert on Thai law and constitution, are you? I'm pretty sure the judges are capable of making a reasonable decision about whether a case should be *considered* or not. The court will *decide* whether the law has been broken, that's what courts do.

The current charter does not permit carte blanche change. There are several aspects where change is specifically forbidden, and the complaint that the court is looking into specifically concerns those issues. But you knew that already.

What is tiresome is your continued slights against the integrity of the judiciary, while simultaneously ignoring the gaping chasm that is the the integrity of PTP and the 'red mob' leadership, and their blatant attempts to intimidate the judiciary. It's incredible.

Here's a clue for you: No governance, no democracy.

alright whiz-bang kid : which laws were broken?

do you read? do you understand the controversy about the court taking this decision? It's been well published.

when was the last time you heard of a court in your country stopping a parliamentary debate?

the complaint that the court decided to take up - against many legal experts interpretation of the process and using a 'logic' that has never before been invoked - is a complaint that is blatantly and wildly mis-representing the intention of the parliament. (but you knew that already...)

As for you and your comments about me "slighting the judiciary", just take a hike if you don't like it. Or better yet, if you think they are a bastion of unbiased judgments and integrity, then feel free to argue that point instead of telling me how tired you are. As for me, I feel that their well-documented record in judicial activism demonstrates otherwise.

Which law? The court is examining whether the proposed charter rewrite is *unconstitutional*, ie. whether this action is a breach of certain provisions of the charter or not. There are provisions to make complaints on certain issues, such complaints have been made, and the courts have agreed to *consider* the case. Note that word *consider*.

While you appear to struggle with the concept that Parliament may not do what they please, fact is that Parliament is explicitly *bound* by the judgement of this particular court. Apparently Puea Thai agree, because they they halted the debate in line with the court order. A bitter pill to swallow I'm sure.

Fortunately I come from a country that ranks pretty high on governance. But even there bills endorsed by Parliament have been known to be overturned by the courts on the basis that they are unconstitutional. More commonly they are withdrawn when it becomes apparent they are likely to go down in flames.

You seem to have neglected to comment on the integrity of Puea Thai and the 'red mob'. Can we assume that you hold them in higher esteem than the judiciary? Care to explain how intimidating judges fits in with your vision of "democracy"?

So, let's see, redmob - we'll start there.

Did I ever support intimidating the judges? Hmmm, let me see, er, ... No.

PTP vs Judges and integrity. They are about dead even in my view. No, the judges don't get particularly high marks in my book.

Which law, ah, I see you have no answer, in fact, a simple acknowledgement that no law has been broken, instead. But you manage to point out that a law can be considered unconstitutional. Very good... that is ... once it is a law. If that had happened in this case, that would have been fair game, don't you think?

You do ignore the part about courts jumping into parliamentary debates. I never saw the courts messing with legislation in the States before, but if you have some examples from other countries of courts preempting the legislative process, please do share them rather than some vague hand-waving about bills being withdrawn.

No, sir, in the democracies where I have lived, there is a proper order to things and the actions of this court in Thailand this past month do not fit into a category that these countries would consider "normal".

[rubl]

I personally like the tired old 62% didn't vote for the ptp. It seems to me that these posters should go whole hog and add all the children and new born babies who didn't vote for the PTP and then they would get some where just barely north of "70% of the Thai people didn't vote for the PTP".

Although peaceful humans losing to thugpower organized criminals comes a close second.

'We have a majority, we can do what we want' is just as tiresome.

BTW with the general elections in 2011 Pheu Thai got 44.38% of cast votes, Democrats 32.24%.

[rubl]

No, sir, in the democracies where I have lived, there is a proper order to things and the actions of this court in Thailand this past month do not fit into a category that these countries would consider "normal".

Now really, I'm afraid I have to agree. Mind you only when you include the actions of Government, politicians, police, etc. into the equation. Don't forget the "I can't hear you" speaker of the house and the recurring "solved in three/six/nine months time".

BTW the OP clearly fits your statement "actions do not fit into a category democratic countries would consider normal"

Edited July 12, 2012 by rubl

[tlansford]

I personally like the tired old 62% didn't vote for the ptp. It seems to me that these posters should go whole hog and add all the children and new born babies who didn't vote for the PTP and then they would get some where just barely north of "70% of the Thai people didn't vote for the PTP".

Although peaceful humans losing to thugpower organized criminals comes a close second.

'We have a majority, we can do what we want' is just as tiresome.

BTW with the general elections in 2011 Pheu Thai got 44.38% of cast votes, Democrats 32.24%.

Rubl, missing phiphidon, or something?

The PTP got 48.41 % of the popular vote and 53% of the seats in parliament. Why are you still posting BS numbers?

And the only people writing 'We have a majority, we can do what we want' about the PTP are the PTP-haters. Don't tell me you hadn't noticed that before? It is part of the rabid-right's propaganda campaign to associate false, negative attributes to their "enemies". Similar to de-humanizing them by calling them thugs, or mobs, etc.

But you are right - it is tiresome.

[Thai at Heart]

The judicial branch in Thailand is independent of the other 2 branches. But that doesn't mean that it is not biased.

"These particular Courts are in place for keeping the checks and balances of government."

if that is true, then why did the court jump into a parliamentary debate where they have no jurisdiction? As you said, the branches should be independent. Was it because laws were broken? No. No laws have been broken and the process (amazingly!) does not accommodate any law breaking.

So the election was valid, and no laws have been broken, so what are you guys ranting about?

Oh yeah, redmob redmob, redmob, ...

Got it.

(BTW, give it up - not all voters, not in Isaan or elsewhere in Thailand, are uneducated, poor, and unable to comprehend the issues. This constant ranting about Thai people from people who demonstrate every day on this forum that they do not understand the issues is more than tiresome...)

Oh for god's sake, who are you to say the court has no jurisdiction? Expert on Thai law and constitution, are you? I'm pretty sure the judges are capable of making a reasonable decision about whether a case should be *considered* or not. The court will *decide* whether the law has been broken, that's what courts do.

The current charter does not permit carte blanche change. There are several aspects where change is specifically forbidden, and the complaint that the court is looking into specifically concerns those issues. But you knew that already.

What is tiresome is your continued slights against the integrity of the judiciary, while simultaneously ignoring the gaping chasm that is the the integrity of PTP and the 'red mob' leadership, and their blatant attempts to intimidate the judiciary. It's incredible.

Here's a clue for you: No governance, no democracy.

alright whiz-bang kid : which laws were broken?

do you read? do you understand the controversy about the court taking this decision? It's been well published.

when was the last time you heard of a court in your country stopping a parliamentary debate?

the complaint that the court decided to take up - against many legal experts interpretation of the process and using a 'logic' that has never before been invoked - is a complaint that is blatantly and wildly mis-representing the intention of the parliament. (but you knew that already...)

As for you and your comments about me "slighting the judiciary", just take a hike if you don't like it. Or better yet, if you think they are a bastion of unbiased judgments and integrity, then feel free to argue that point instead of telling me how tired you are. As for me, I feel that their well-documented record in judicial activism demonstrates otherwise.

Which law? The court is examining whether the proposed charter rewrite is *unconstitutional*, ie. whether this action is a breach of certain provisions of the charter or not. There are provisions to make complaints on certain issues, such complaints have been made, and the courts have agreed to *consider* the case. Note that word *consider*.

While you appear to struggle with the concept that Parliament may not do what they please, fact is that Parliament is explicitly *bound* by the judgement of this particular court. Apparently Puea Thai agree, because they they halted the debate in line with the court order. A bitter pill to swallow I'm sure.

Fortunately I come from a country that ranks pretty high on governance. But even there bills endorsed by Parliament have been known to be overturned by the courts on the basis that they are unconstitutional. More commonly they are withdrawn when it becomes apparent they are likely to go down in flames.

You seem to have neglected to comment on the integrity of Puea Thai and the 'red mob'. Can we assume that you hold them in higher esteem than the judiciary? Care to explain how intimidating judges fits in with your vision of "democracy"?

They haven't even tabled exactly what is precisely up for change yet. I can understand how it happens in this highly charged atmosphere that the court jumped in because that is their way if even preventing the discussion.

But, it isn't legal or right for the court to do this despite how vitally they think their intervention might be. The rules of the game are clearly stated and their is no other way for them to prevent a constitutional change than for the court to jump in prematurely.

How this happens anyone knows, but it is not in accordance with their remit. A very sad and dangerous situation, and it only serves to continue to prove that the judicial system is broken as a mechanism to enforce the law.

The far better way would have been to have the parliament make their decisions on proposed changes and then the court rules right or wrong. This has become minority report style of judgement on the back of spurious complaint.

They are making the situation worse by intervening now, and it is curiously unthai. ordinarily they would be above it and let parliament come to them. Why on earth they interceded now, who the hell knows.

But tomorrow, we may or may not see the result of judicial activism and anger played out. I wonder how many bazzilion years they will give somchai from yasothon for publicly criticising the judgement, and in doing so idiotically creating another martyr for their misguided cause.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[rubl]

I personally like the tired old 62% didn't vote for the ptp. It seems to me that these posters should go whole hog and add all the children and new born babies who didn't vote for the PTP and then they would get some where just barely north of "70% of the Thai people didn't vote for the PTP".

Although peaceful humans losing to thugpower organized criminals comes a close second.

'We have a majority, we can do what we want' is just as tiresome.

BTW with the general elections in 2011 Pheu Thai got 44.38% of cast votes, Democrats 32.24%.

Rubl, missing phiphidon, or something?

The PTP got 48.41 % of the popular vote and 53% of the seats in parliament. Why are you still posting BS numbers?

And the only people writing 'We have a majority, we can do what we want' about the PTP are the PTP-haters. Don't tell me you hadn't noticed that before? It is part of the rabid-right's propaganda campaign to associate false, negative attributes to their "enemies". Similar to de-humanizing them by calling them thugs, or mobs, etc.

But you are right - it is tiresome.

I said 'Pheu Thai got 44.38% of cast votes', valid numbers, check EC website unless you feel their info is BS?

As for PTP-haters, the "we won, we can do" comes from Dept. PM Pol Captain Chalerm, or were you asleep when he said so?

Who said "don't condemn, let a man's own words do that for him" ? Tiresome to need to correct and try to keep with the truth.

[hellodolly]

... as incredible as this guy sounds to civilized readers, I do believe he accurately reflects the mentality, intellect and intentions of millions of Thais ... I believe his scenario is quite solid.

... during the May 2010 urban guerilla fighting here in BKK, watching the wisps of black smoke hanging above BKK and under military curfew, I first began seriously considering that a Thai civil war as a distinct possibility ... maybe inevitable ... some very prominent Thai institutions and traditional behaviors that could previously be relied upon to call Thais back from the precipice to the middle way are now disappearing.

... I am checking my Thai family's documents to quickly depart if Thailand detonates ... I see more violent street confrontations as an increasing possibility ... if it escalates beyond BKK, into the upcountry Red's home territory up north, it could be 'game on' ... and if it goes upcountry, the Royal Thai Army might have a real fight on their hands ... nothing like rolling out a few tanks and powering over a rable of lightly armed street protesters ... with Toxin's money and the senior military elements counted amongst the Red's movement, nothing as that at all.

... nothing on the horizon appears as a possible solution.

I am with you on this possibility thing. The PT are only interested in getting there leader back so he can become dictator. Up until recently I believed there was enough checks to hold them back. But now they come right out and say if you try to stop us we will shoot you. And it seems that the Thai people are accepting it. The PT knows what they are doing and don't care. To them Thailand is just some thing for them to use for their own purposes the people don't count.

When they were elected they were not elected to do this. I know there are posters on here saying they have the rite to do any thing they want to because they got more seats. If they promise some thing they don't have to deliver it because they have more seats. If they want to bring in a lacrimal to run the country they can do it. And even the room temperature IQs that back them know that 52% of the population don't want them in there even when they were not trying to turn Thailand in to a dictatorship.

Yes I am beginning to worry. It is the apathy of the people that will destroy Thailand.

[hellodolly]

I personally like the tired old 62% didn't vote for the ptp. It seems to me that these posters should go whole hog and add all the children and new born babies who didn't vote for the PTP and then they would get some where just barely north of "70% of the Thai people didn't vote for the PTP".

Although peaceful humans losing to thugpower organized criminals comes a close second.

'We have a majority, we can do what we want' is just as tiresome.

BTW with the general elections in 2011 Pheu Thai got 44.38% of cast votes, Democrats 32.24%.

Rubl, missing phiphidon, or something?

The PTP got 48.41 % of the popular vote and 53% of the seats in parliament. Why are you still posting BS numbers?

And the only people writing 'We have a majority, we can do what we want' about the PTP are the PTP-haters. Don't tell me you hadn't noticed that before? It is part of the rabid-right's propaganda campaign to associate false, negative attributes to their "enemies". Similar to de-humanizing them by calling them thugs, or mobs, etc.

But you are right - it is tiresome.

I said 'Pheu Thai got 44.38% of cast votes', valid numbers, check EC website unless you feel their info is BS?

As for PTP-haters, the "we won, we can do" comes from Dept. PM Pol Captain Chalerm, or were you asleep when he said so?

Who said "don't condemn, let a man's own words do that for him" ? Tiresome to need to correct and try to keep with the truth.

Rubi

It is only natural for the people who don't like the PT to say that the PT is saying we won we can do any thing. The PT is not going to tell the truth. The only time they will say it out loud is when they are drinking. But they have no problem stone cold sober saying we are going to do what we want or we will shoot you. scum Is what they are. Taking advantage of a uneducated population. The ones who have a education have there hand in the cash regesters till and that is what makes it OK for the PT to do what they want.

Have you noticed they are saying if you disapprove of what we are doing you hate us. I wonder if they are going to pass a law that say's if you do not approve of us you must hate us disliking us will be illegal.

Edited July 12, 2012 by hellodolly

[Thai at Heart]

... as incredible as this guy sounds to civilized readers, I do believe he accurately reflects the mentality, intellect and intentions of millions of Thais ... I believe his scenario is quite solid.

... during the May 2010 urban guerilla fighting here in BKK, watching the wisps of black smoke hanging above BKK and under military curfew, I first began seriously considering that a Thai civil war as a distinct possibility ... maybe inevitable ... some very prominent Thai institutions and traditional behaviors that could previously be relied upon to call Thais back from the precipice to the middle way are now disappearing.

... I am checking my Thai family's documents to quickly depart if Thailand detonates ... I see more violent street confrontations as an increasing possibility ... if it escalates beyond BKK, into the upcountry Red's home territory up north, it could be 'game on' ... and if it goes upcountry, the Royal Thai Army might have a real fight on their hands ... nothing like rolling out a few tanks and powering over a rable of lightly armed street protesters ... with Toxin's money and the senior military elements counted amongst the Red's movement, nothing as that at all.

... nothing on the horizon appears as a possible solution.

I am with you on this possibility thing. The PT are only interested in getting there leader back so he can become dictator. Up until recently I believed there was enough checks to hold them back. But now they come right out and say if you try to stop us we will shoot you. And it seems that the Thai people are accepting it. The PT knows what they are doing and don't care. To them Thailand is just some thing for them to use for their own purposes the people don't count.

When they were elected they were not elected to do this. I know there are posters on here saying they have the rite to do any thing they want to because they got more seats. If they promise some thing they don't have to deliver it because they have more seats. If they want to bring in a lacrimal to run the country they can do it. And even the room temperature IQs that back them know that 52% of the population don't want them in there even when they were not trying to turn Thailand in to a dictatorship.

Yes I am beginning to worry. It is the apathy of the people that will destroy Thailand.

And you really believe that the army and millions of thais will allow thaksin to come back as dictator?

He might get back, but he will never ever be allowed to become a dictator. That's detante