The New Rangers Thread

[Jockstar]

Lets keep all the Rangers news and discussions in here than other threads.

By Andrew Dickson

JIM BALLANTYNE admits the SFL is powerless to stop the SPL forming a second tier but insists First Division clubs would rather be part of a solution for Scottish football that involves all 42 senior teams.

The Scottish Football League's president spoke after the body accepted Rangers and granted it membership but refused the Ibrox outfit entry to the First Division.

Instead, 25 clubs out of 30 voted that the Light Blues should begin the 2012/13 campaign in the Third Division.

There is now speculation the SPL could look to start a second league which would include Gers and effectively cut the senior game in half.

But Ballantyne is adamant SFL sides as a whole want to work together to move the sport in this country forward in the long run.

He said: "We don't have any control over the SPL and they are entitled to do whatever they wish within their own rules.

"But it is important to mention the Division One clubs went out of their way to make it clear their route regarding a solution involved all 42 teams. I think that says a lot for them.

"Other bodies are going to have to look at the decision we've taken and decide what view they take. As far as we're concerned, it's crystal clear and it was a massive majority.

"The talk of financial meltdown is scary for everybody but that completely ignores the views of fans. They've been vociferous in their view of what this whole situation may bring.

"The message coming across from every club is exactly the same, even from Rangers fans themselves.

"If they had their choice, it would be Division Three. That reflected the views of First, Second and Third Division clubs."

[ScotsExpat]

The fans have spoken, and the clubs have listened (well, most of them!!!).

As a Dons fan, I have a new-found respect for both my club and the Raiths of this world who stood up and were counted when many felt discretion was the better part of valour..

So, onto SFL Div 3 for TCFKAR.

But its still not over. Will SEVCO agree to the original AT ruling and accept the 12 month transfer embargo? If so, they go in on RFC's ticket and also accept all footballing debt.

And with a squad size Spartans would laugh at, what are their chances of actually managing to gain promotion from SFL3? With the overheads to run a stadium the size of Ibrox, will they generate enough revenue to stay afloat or will Duff and Duffer find themselves back in Govan dealing with SEVCO(IA)?

The rest of Scottish football can now move on, sure of the fact that justice has prevailed and integrity has been maintained.

It ain't over for TCFKAR, not by a long way.....

[Jockstar]

Green in talks over Gers' Euro debts

July 17, 2012

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By ESPN staff

Charles Green is jetting to Switzerland in an attempt to negotiate a settlement with UEFA over the £3 million owed by Rangers to European clubs.

PA Photos

Charles Green will hold talks in Zurich

Green - whose newco Rangers must begin their footballing life in the Scottish Third Division - will travel to Athens, where he intends to hold talks about organising a friendly with Olympiakos at Ibrox, before arriving in Zurich.

Rangers are currently in negotiations with the Scottish Football Association for the newco to gain membership of Scottish football's governing body.

Green told Sky Sports News: "Part of the conditions for the newco to meet SFA membership is that there are certain old club debts to European clubs.

"It is not inconsiderable - it is about £3million that has been accumulated as part of the historical baggage."

He said the newco was having to "suffer the sins of the fathers" but added: "What I want to go and say to these [European] clubs, as well as UEFA, is that we are here for the long haul - we want to be honourable.

"We are people who face up to responsibility, but we want some help in meeting these because we do want to get Rangers back to the top of the pile and, when we do get back into Europe - whether it's five or ten years or 20 years - we want to walk back with our heads held high."

He said he also wanted the clubs and UEFA "to recognise these are not my debts, this is a gesture" and for them "to work with us where we can come to some amicably agreeable settlement and move forward together as friends".

Green said he felt there had been a change in attitude towards him from Rangers fans, revealing that supporters could eventually own up to 50% of the club.

"I am trying to do a job that rescues Rangers for the fans and for the people who own this club," he explained. "The opportunity [for part ownership] is there - we will have fulfilled our promise to fans, and that is the next step.

[nev]

Yes i like the new ranger too, been to the show room but a long waiting list for the wildtrack model.

Shouldn't this be in the motoring section?

[ScotsExpat]

Green in talks over Gers' Euro debts

July 17, 2012

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By ESPN staff

Charles Green is jetting to Switzerland in an attempt to negotiate a settlement with UEFA over the £3 million owed by Rangers to European clubs.

PA Photos

Charles Green will hold talks in Zurich

Green - whose newco Rangers must begin their footballing life in the Scottish Third Division - will travel to Athens, where he intends to hold talks about organising a friendly with Olympiakos at Ibrox, before arriving in Zurich.

Rangers are currently in negotiations with the Scottish Football Association for the newco to gain membership of Scottish football's governing body.

Green told Sky Sports News: "Part of the conditions for the newco to meet SFA membership is that there are certain old club debts to European clubs.

"It is not inconsiderable - it is about £3million that has been accumulated as part of the historical baggage."

He said the newco was having to "suffer the sins of the fathers" but added: "What I want to go and say to these [European] clubs, as well as UEFA, is that we are here for the long haul - we want to be honourable.

"We are people who face up to responsibility, but we want some help in meeting these because we do want to get Rangers back to the top of the pile and, when we do get back into Europe - whether it's five or ten years or 20 years - we want to walk back with our heads held high."

He said he also wanted the clubs and UEFA "to recognise these are not my debts, this is a gesture" and for them "to work with us where we can come to some amicably agreeable settlement and move forward together as friends".

Green said he felt there had been a change in attitude towards him from Rangers fans, revealing that supporters could eventually own up to 50% of the club.

"I am trying to do a job that rescues Rangers for the fans and for the people who own this club," he explained. "The opportunity [for part ownership] is there - we will have fulfilled our promise to fans, and that is the next step.

Green has a very simple way of ignoring these debts. If he were to allow RFC(IA) to die in peace, and use this situation to start a new team, there would be no need for him to worry about debt.

Unfortunately, he knows that when/if TCFKAR fans realise that the history is just that, history, and has been jettisoned to allow the bad history to be jettisoned as well, the fag packet plan he has will collapse....

Regards the UEFA visit, it has been reported that Criag Whyte was spotted boarding a flight to Switzerland from Monaco this morning......

This saga just keep giving.......

[Jockstar]

Rangers news

McCoist unhappy with SFA

July 21, 2012

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By ESPN staff

Rangers have denied the Scottish Football Association's claim that the club accepted a transfer embargo.

• Southampton agree Davis deal

• Rangers embargo delayed

An announcement on Friday said that the newco had agreed to a transfer ban beginning on September 1 as a "primary condition" of gaining SFA membership and being allowed to enter the Third Division.

That would allow the new club to build a squad ahead of the new season, with the bulk of the squad having departed after the original Rangers' liquidation, but manager Ally McCoist insists they have yet to accept the agreement.

"I am extremely disappointed that the SFA chose to release a statement last night when the club has not actually signed any agreement," McCoist told the club's official website. "The club is trying to get to a position where we can plan for the season, which starts in only eight days.

"We have had meetings with the SFA all week to discuss membership but I had to leave the final meeting as I could not support the sanctions they were trying to impose.

"The decision has already been taken to place Rangers in Division Three and we have accepted that, along with many more punishments. However, operating with an embargo on an already depleted first-team squad - even with a window to sign players - will make the task ahead an extremely difficult one.

"It is important to remember we have already had a ten-point deduction from the SPL, lost our Champions League place for finishing second last season, had a £160,000 fine, been refused entry to the SPL, been relegated to Division Three and lost the majority of our first-team squad - yet still the governing body has chosen to impose further sanctions.

"The transfer ban has been strongly resisted by me, the management team, the directors and supporters. From a business point of view I can understand the position the board has been placed in and ultimately they felt they had no choice but to accept some sanctions in order to move forward - as one of the alternatives could have led to the extinction of the club.

"I can also assure every Rangers fan I will not be accepting any talk of stripping the club of titles. That is something we will never accept and everyone at the club shares this view.

"This is still Rangers Football Club and the supporters will continue to back us as they have always done. There will be difficult times ahead but I know with the support of our fans we can emerge stronger and rise to the challenge.

"Talks will continue next week and we all hope common sense will prevail to allow us to get back playing football."

[ScotsExpat]

Rangers news

McCoist unhappy with SFA

July 21, 2012

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By ESPN staff

Rangers have denied the Scottish Football Association's claim that the club accepted a transfer embargo.

• Southampton agree Davis deal

• Rangers embargo delayed

An announcement on Friday said that the newco had agreed to a transfer ban beginning on September 1 as a "primary condition" of gaining SFA membership and being allowed to enter the Third Division.

That would allow the new club to build a squad ahead of the new season, with the bulk of the squad having departed after the original Rangers' liquidation, but manager Ally McCoist insists they have yet to accept the agreement.

"I am extremely disappointed that the SFA chose to release a statement last night when the club has not actually signed any agreement," McCoist told the club's official website. "The club is trying to get to a position where we can plan for the season, which starts in only eight days.

"We have had meetings with the SFA all week to discuss membership but I had to leave the final meeting as I could not support the sanctions they were trying to impose.

"The decision has already been taken to place Rangers in Division Three and we have accepted that, along with many more punishments. However, operating with an embargo on an already depleted first-team squad - even with a window to sign players - will make the task ahead an extremely difficult one.

"It is important to remember we have already had a ten-point deduction from the SPL, lost our Champions League place for finishing second last season, had a £160,000 fine, been refused entry to the SPL, been relegated to Division Three and lost the majority of our first-team squad - yet still the governing body has chosen to impose further sanctions.

"The transfer ban has been strongly resisted by me, the management team, the directors and supporters. From a business point of view I can understand the position the board has been placed in and ultimately they felt they had no choice but to accept some sanctions in order to move forward - as one of the alternatives could have led to the extinction of the club.

"I can also assure every Rangers fan I will not be accepting any talk of stripping the club of titles. That is something we will never accept and everyone at the club shares this view.

"This is still Rangers Football Club and the supporters will continue to back us as they have always done. There will be difficult times ahead but I know with the support of our fans we can emerge stronger and rise to the challenge.

"Talks will continue next week and we all hope common sense will prevail to allow us to get back playing football."

All this talk of 'enough punishment' is spurious. The 10 point deduction was due to them entering administration. They are banned from Europre for 3 years because the CVA failed and the club entered liquidation. The 160,000 fine was ordered to be paid for 5 seperate disciplinary issues, mainly bringing the game into disrepute. The FTT, EBT etc are yet to actually come out, which would lead to stripping of titles. Every game Rangers played with ANY player being paid thru an EBT would result in a 3-0 win attributed to the oppostion, because the player was ineligible....

They want to keep Rangers alive, but are unwilling to pay the price for their cheating....

[MrMuddle]

As a Rangers fan, and a fan of Scottish football in general, the solution I would like to see is Rangers start in Division Three, which I think is fair punishment for sins of the past.

If and when, Rangers climb their way back to the SPL, then and only then, should a decision be made on a 2 Division league in Scotland. I believe that a two division system, along with the Financial Fair Play system that UEFA are bringing in, is the best way forward for Scottish football.

This all depends of course, on the other clubs in Scotland, managing to keep their financial heads above water, while Rangers are otherwise engaged.

As an aside, I would like to see all Scottish premier league clubs being forced to field a minimum of four players, who they have brought through their youth systems, and I do mean field, not have them sitting on the bench. Scottish football is in a truly awful state, and every measure that can be taken should be taken, to try to increase competitiveness between the clubs, by ridding Scottish football of the two club monopoly it has become, since the SPL came into being.

[NoshowJones]

Rangers news

McCoist unhappy with SFA

July 21, 2012

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By ESPN staff

Rangers have denied the Scottish Football Association's claim that the club accepted a transfer embargo.

• Southampton agree Davis deal

• Rangers embargo delayed

An announcement on Friday said that the newco had agreed to a transfer ban beginning on September 1 as a "primary condition" of gaining SFA membership and being allowed to enter the Third Division.

That would allow the new club to build a squad ahead of the new season, with the bulk of the squad having departed after the original Rangers' liquidation, but manager Ally McCoist insists they have yet to accept the agreement.

"I am extremely disappointed that the SFA chose to release a statement last night when the club has not actually signed any agreement," McCoist told the club's official website. "The club is trying to get to a position where we can plan for the season, which starts in only eight days.

"We have had meetings with the SFA all week to discuss membership but I had to leave the final meeting as I could not support the sanctions they were trying to impose.

"The decision has already been taken to place Rangers in Division Three and we have accepted that, along with many more punishments. However, operating with an embargo on an already depleted first-team squad - even with a window to sign players - will make the task ahead an extremely difficult one.

"It is important to remember we have already had a ten-point deduction from the SPL, lost our Champions League place for finishing second last season, had a £160,000 fine, been refused entry to the SPL, been relegated to Division Three and lost the majority of our first-team squad - yet still the governing body has chosen to impose further sanctions.

"The transfer ban has been strongly resisted by me, the management team, the directors and supporters. From a business point of view I can understand the position the board has been placed in and ultimately they felt they had no choice but to accept some sanctions in order to move forward - as one of the alternatives could have led to the extinction of the club.

"I can also assure every Rangers fan I will not be accepting any talk of stripping the club of titles. That is something we will never accept and everyone at the club shares this view.

"This is still Rangers Football Club and the supporters will continue to back us as they have always done. There will be difficult times ahead but I know with the support of our fans we can emerge stronger and rise to the challenge.

"Talks will continue next week and we all hope common sense will prevail to allow us to get back playing football."

If they cheated their way to league titles, then they should be stripped of them. They also bought players like Gascoigne and Laudrup with money they never had, while Celtic were buying Biggins and Muggleton. That's why they "won" nine in a row.

[ScotsExpat]

As a Rangers fan, and a fan of Scottish football in general, the solution I would like to see is Rangers start in Division Three , which I think is fair punishment for sins of the past.

If and when, Rangers climb their way back to the SPL, then and only then, should a decision be made on a 2 Division league in Scotland. I believe that a two division system, along with the Financial Fair Play system that UEFA are bringing in, is the best way forward for Scottish football.

This all depends of course, on the other clubs in Scotland, managing to keep their financial heads above water, while Rangers are otherwise engaged.

As an aside, I would like to see all Scottish premier league clubs being forced to field a minimum of four players, who they have brought through their youth systems, and I do mean field, not have them sitting on the bench. Scottish football is in a truly awful state, and every measure that can be taken should be taken, to try to increase competitiveness between the clubs, by ridding Scottish football of the two club monopoly it has become, since the SPL came into being.

Therein lies the problem......

The team owned by Charles Green is not Rangers. If it were, HMRC, Ticketus and every other creditor (remember, the amount could be upwards of 140 milion) would still be looking for their pound of flesh...

Edited July 23, 2012 by ScotsExpat

[ScotsExpat]

Rangers news

McCoist unhappy with SFA

July 21, 2012

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By ESPN staff

Rangers have denied the Scottish Football Association's claim that the club accepted a transfer embargo.

• Southampton agree Davis deal

• Rangers embargo delayed

An announcement on Friday said that the newco had agreed to a transfer ban beginning on September 1 as a "primary condition" of gaining SFA membership and being allowed to enter the Third Division.

That would allow the new club to build a squad ahead of the new season, with the bulk of the squad having departed after the original Rangers' liquidation, but manager Ally McCoist insists they have yet to accept the agreement.

"I am extremely disappointed that the SFA chose to release a statement last night when the club has not actually signed any agreement," McCoist told the club's official website. "The club is trying to get to a position where we can plan for the season, which starts in only eight days.

"We have had meetings with the SFA all week to discuss membership but I had to leave the final meeting as I could not support the sanctions they were trying to impose.

"The decision has already been taken to place Rangers in Division Three and we have accepted that, along with many more punishments. However, operating with an embargo on an already depleted first-team squad - even with a window to sign players - will make the task ahead an extremely difficult one.

"It is important to remember we have already had a ten-point deduction from the SPL, lost our Champions League place for finishing second last season, had a £160,000 fine, been refused entry to the SPL, been relegated to Division Three and lost the majority of our first-team squad - yet still the governing body has chosen to impose further sanctions.

"The transfer ban has been strongly resisted by me, the management team, the directors and supporters. From a business point of view I can understand the position the board has been placed in and ultimately they felt they had no choice but to accept some sanctions in order to move forward - as one of the alternatives could have led to the extinction of the club.

"I can also assure every Rangers fan I will not be accepting any talk of stripping the club of titles. That is something we will never accept and everyone at the club shares this view.

"This is still Rangers Football Club and the supporters will continue to back us as they have always done. There will be difficult times ahead but I know with the support of our fans we can emerge stronger and rise to the challenge.

"Talks will continue next week and we all hope common sense will prevail to allow us to get back playing football."

If they cheated their way to league titles, then they should be stripped of them. They also bought players like Gascoigne and Laudrup with money they never had, while Celtic were buying Biggins and Muggleton. That's why they "won" nine in a row.

At least at that time they were actually paying for the players who moved to Edmiston Drive..... Unlike the last few......

[NoshowJones]

Rangers news

McCoist unhappy with SFA

July 21, 2012

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By ESPN staff

Rangers have denied the Scottish Football Association's claim that the club accepted a transfer embargo.

• Southampton agree Davis deal

• Rangers embargo delayed

An announcement on Friday said that the newco had agreed to a transfer ban beginning on September 1 as a "primary condition" of gaining SFA membership and being allowed to enter the Third Division.

That would allow the new club to build a squad ahead of the new season, with the bulk of the squad having departed after the original Rangers' liquidation, but manager Ally McCoist insists they have yet to accept the agreement.

"I am extremely disappointed that the SFA chose to release a statement last night when the club has not actually signed any agreement," McCoist told the club's official website. "The club is trying to get to a position where we can plan for the season, which starts in only eight days.

"We have had meetings with the SFA all week to discuss membership but I had to leave the final meeting as I could not support the sanctions they were trying to impose.

"The decision has already been taken to place Rangers in Division Three and we have accepted that, along with many more punishments. However, operating with an embargo on an already depleted first-team squad - even with a window to sign players - will make the task ahead an extremely difficult one.

"It is important to remember we have already had a ten-point deduction from the SPL, lost our Champions League place for finishing second last season, had a £160,000 fine, been refused entry to the SPL, been relegated to Division Three and lost the majority of our first-team squad - yet still the governing body has chosen to impose further sanctions.

"The transfer ban has been strongly resisted by me, the management team, the directors and supporters. From a business point of view I can understand the position the board has been placed in and ultimately they felt they had no choice but to accept some sanctions in order to move forward - as one of the alternatives could have led to the extinction of the club.

"I can also assure every Rangers fan I will not be accepting any talk of stripping the club of titles. That is something we will never accept and everyone at the club shares this view.

"This is still Rangers Football Club and the supporters will continue to back us as they have always done. There will be difficult times ahead but I know with the support of our fans we can emerge stronger and rise to the challenge.

"Talks will continue next week and we all hope common sense will prevail to allow us to get back playing football."

If they cheated their way to league titles, then they should be stripped of them. They also bought players like Gascoigne and Laudrup with money they never had, while Celtic were buying Biggins and Muggleton. That's why they "won" nine in a row.

At least at that time they were actually paying for the players who moved to Edmiston Drive..... Unlike the last few......

Good point ScotsExpat, hope to see you on this forum again.

[smokie36]

On behalf of the many Arbroath fans on the forum I'd like to say a big thank you to the previous board.

[ScotsExpat]

Rangers news

McCoist unhappy with SFA

July 21, 2012

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By ESPN staff

Rangers have denied the Scottish Football Association's claim that the club accepted a transfer embargo.

• Southampton agree Davis deal

• Rangers embargo delayed

An announcement on Friday said that the newco had agreed to a transfer ban beginning on September 1 as a "primary condition" of gaining SFA membership and being allowed to enter the Third Division.

That would allow the new club to build a squad ahead of the new season, with the bulk of the squad having departed after the original Rangers' liquidation, but manager Ally McCoist insists they have yet to accept the agreement.

"I am extremely disappointed that the SFA chose to release a statement last night when the club has not actually signed any agreement," McCoist told the club's official website. "The club is trying to get to a position where we can plan for the season, which starts in only eight days.

"We have had meetings with the SFA all week to discuss membership but I had to leave the final meeting as I could not support the sanctions they were trying to impose.

"The decision has already been taken to place Rangers in Division Three and we have accepted that, along with many more punishments. However, operating with an embargo on an already depleted first-team squad - even with a window to sign players - will make the task ahead an extremely difficult one.

"It is important to remember we have already had a ten-point deduction from the SPL, lost our Champions League place for finishing second last season, had a £160,000 fine, been refused entry to the SPL, been relegated to Division Three and lost the majority of our first-team squad - yet still the governing body has chosen to impose further sanctions.

"The transfer ban has been strongly resisted by me, the management team, the directors and supporters. From a business point of view I can understand the position the board has been placed in and ultimately they felt they had no choice but to accept some sanctions in order to move forward - as one of the alternatives could have led to the extinction of the club.

"I can also assure every Rangers fan I will not be accepting any talk of stripping the club of titles. That is something we will never accept and everyone at the club shares this view.

"This is still Rangers Football Club and the supporters will continue to back us as they have always done. There will be difficult times ahead but I know with the support of our fans we can emerge stronger and rise to the challenge.

"Talks will continue next week and we all hope common sense will prevail to allow us to get back playing football."

If they cheated their way to league titles, then they should be stripped of them. They also bought players like Gascoigne and Laudrup with money they never had, while Celtic were buying Biggins and Muggleton. That's why they "won" nine in a row.

At least at that time they were actually paying for the players who moved to Edmiston Drive..... Unlike the last few......

Good point ScotsExpat, hope to see you on this forum again.

I'm always lurking, just pay more attention to the topics of interest me....

[Mossfinn]

OK guys, but how about not copying the whole post you are responding to? highlight the text you don't want and delete, it make it so much more readable.

[Mossfinn]

Wasn't the debt buit up over a number of years, so if they were paying money for top players in the years of the '9', does it not make sense that they were using their working capital and when the cash flow runs out in time, bingo.

[ScotsExpat]

Wasn't the debt buit up over a number of years, so if they were paying money for top players in the years of the '9', does it not make sense that they were using their working capital and when the cash flow runs out in time, bingo.

The money they used was not their working capital. They used illegal means to boost a players remuneration package to pay for players they would not have, legitimately, been able to afford. Cheating...

The amount of debt is secondary in all of this...

[ScotsExpat]

For all those who have had to rely on the MainStreamMedia, both in Scotland and further afield, for information, I would like to clarify one glaringly obvious error that 99% of journo's are touting with regards to the 'punishments' meted out to TCFKAR and their Phoenix side SEVCO 5088.

Rangers have received hardly any punishment to date, most of the mess that they are in is a direct consequence of their own actions / inactions. Despite what McCoist and others keep bleating about, they’ve had next to no punishment imposed by anyone, so far.

Banned from Champions League - No they’re not banned, they failed to qualify as they never submitted their accounts as per the rules.

Docked ten points - Any club entering Administration during the football season faces a automatic ten point deduction – and it did not alter their final league position.

Rangers were relegated from the SPL - Rangers were not relegated, they are in Administration, could not agree a CVA, and are facing Liquidation. Rangers will be wound up and cease to exist, so cannot play in any league.

Sevco were relegated from the SPL - Sevco were not relegated, they were not, and have never been, a member of the SPL. As a brand new company, they were refused permission to start off at the top tier of Scottish football.

Sevco have been relegated to the 3rd Div - Sevco are a brand new company, they have never been a member of any league, and have not been relegated by any league. They are starting in the 3rd Division, as all new Senior Clubs are expected to do.

Banned from Europe for three years - No, they’re not banned, any club wishing a European Licence must provide three years audited accounts. Sevco are unable to meet that requirement, so can not qualify until they do have three years accounts.

Fined £160k - Actually yes, this is a punishment. It was imposed by an independent tribunal, for bringing the game into disrepute over non-payment of approximately £13,000,000 of Tax and NI, potentially a criminal offence. To put this “punishment” into perspective, this fine is less than Hearts have been fined for Romanov complaining about corruption, and anyway, Rangers / Sevco haven’t yet paid it!

Rangers have been punished for EBT’s - No they haven’t, the football authorities are not even investigating this. They were sent a “bill” by HMRC which they appealed. This appeal has been heard by the FTT, and both parties are currently awaiting the outcome.

Rangers have been punished for Dual Contracts - No they haven’t, the SPL have said that there is a case to answer (irrespective of any decision on legality / illegality of their use of EBT’s) on the use of undeclared dual contracts, meaning they would have fielded ineligible players, but to date this has not been actioned.

So far the only punishment Rangers / Sevco have received is the £160k fine – that they haven’t actually paid..! Everything else they are claiming is a “punishment” is actually completely self-inflicted, and a direct consequence of their own conscious and deliberate inactions, or actions.

There, hope that clears it up for everybody.....

[rott]

Jockstar, I think you should re-name this the Anti-Rangers thread, and leave these genuine, fair minded and non-sectarian gentlemen to get on with it.

[ScotsExpat]

Jockstar, I think you should re-name this the Anti-Rangers thread, and leave these genuine, fair minded and non-sectarian gentlemen to get on with it.

I would appreciate your considered, genuine, fair minded and non-sectarian argument against any point I have made......

Edited to add : I apologise unreservedly for the use of the word 'bleating' used in respect of McCoists comments, but as an Aberdeen fan, I believe we have copyright....

Edited to add : Having read the posts, there would appear to be only one possible Cletic fan that has posted..

Is this another 'If you say anything against Rangers, you must be a Catholic' spin????

Edited July 27, 2012 by ScotsExpat

[rijit]

From a neutral point of view seems rangers need to understand the difference between consequences and punishment,

Everything that has happened 2 them so far has been a consequence of what they have done, officially the SFA, although labeling rangers behavior as not far behind match fixing, barring a fine dont seem to have officially dished a punishment out as yet. Although the consequences already seem/are horrible , the SFA will have to act, how? cant see they've any option but to strip Rangers of the titles the club won under the guilty regime, harsh? Cant really see any other option.

Edited July 27, 2012 by rijit

[MrMuddle]

From a neutral point of view seems rangers need to understand the difference between consequences and punishment,

Everything that has happened 2 them so far has been a consequence of what they have done, officially the SFA, although labeling rangers behavior as not far behind match fixing, barring a fine dont seem to have officially dished a punishment out as yet. Although the consequences already seem/are horrible , the SFA will have to act, how? cant see they've any option but to strip Rangers of the titles the club won under the guilty regime, harsh? Cant really see any other option.

That's the way it worked in Italy, Juventus were stripped of a couple of titles.

[rott]

Scot Sexpat,

I have no considered argument either for or against your points, your depth of knowledge far exceeds mine.

I am concerned for you however, as it appears to me that you have crossed a line and gone from being knowledgeable to being obsessed.

Lighten up a bit Scotty, possibly you have a chip on your shoulder due to being from Aberdeen and feel that the world has pulled a stroke on you, or you may have ginger hair or BO, I really do not care to speculate.

[Jockstar]

Ok lads.Lets not start to getting into name calling. But glad to say that we have now been granted membership. Lets get on with playing football.

Rangers granted SFA membership

July 27, 2012

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Rangers have been cleared to start their season in the Ramsdens Cup against Brechin on Sunday, after being granted conditional Scottish Football Association membership.

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Charles Green's 'newco' Rangers must start next season in the Third Division.

The Scottish Football League announced that agreement had been reached following weeks of discussions, releasing a statement on behalf of the three football authorities while the Ibrox club also announced they had signed an agreement.

The SFL, SFA and Scottish Premier League statement read: "We are pleased to confirm that agreement has been reached on all outstanding points relating to the transfer of the Scottish FA membership between Rangers FC (In Administration), and Sevco Scotland Ltd, who will be the new owners of The Rangers Football Club.

"A conditional membership will be issued to Sevco Scotland Ltd today, allowing Sunday's Ramsdens Cup tie against Brechin City to go ahead.

"Following the completion of all legal documentation, the Scottish Premier League will conduct the formal transfer of the league share between RFC (IA) and Dundee FC on no later than Friday 3rd August 2012. At this point, the transfer of Scottish FA membership will be complete."

[rgs2001uk]

Oh dear oh dear, its just not cricket is it.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2012/07/27/celtic-boss-neil-lennon-one-of-500-investors-facing-possible-20m-bill-after-tax-scheme-failure-86908-23913366/

[Baerboxer]

Wasn't the debt buit up over a number of years, so if they were paying money for top players in the years of the '9', does it not make sense that they were using their working capital and when the cash flow runs out in time, bingo.

The money they used was not their working capital. They used illegal means to boost a players remuneration package to pay for players they would not have, legitimately, been able to afford. Cheating...

The amount of debt is secondary in all of this...

Unless you work in banking where it's called creative financing

[ScotsExpat]

Ok lads.Lets not start to getting into name calling. But glad to say that we have now been granted membership. Lets get on with playing football.

Rangers granted SFA membership

July 27, 2012

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Rangers have been cleared to start their season in the Ramsdens Cup against Brechin on Sunday, after being granted conditional Scottish Football Association membership.

GettyImages

Charles Green's 'newco' Rangers must start next season in the Third Division.

The Scottish Football League announced that agreement had been reached following weeks of discussions, releasing a statement on behalf of the three football authorities while the Ibrox club also announced they had signed an agreement.

The SFL, SFA and Scottish Premier League statement read: "We are pleased to confirm that agreement has been reached on all outstanding points relating to the transfer of the Scottish FA membership between Rangers FC (In Administration), and Sevco Scotland Ltd, who will be the new owners of The Rangers Football Club.

"A conditional membership will be issued to Sevco Scotland Ltd today, allowing Sunday's Ramsdens Cup tie against Brechin City to go ahead.

"Following the completion of all legal documentation, the Scottish Premier League will conduct the formal transfer of the league share between RFC (IA) and Dundee FC on no later than Friday 3rd August 2012. At this point, the transfer of Scottish FA membership will be complete."

My understanding is that the issuance of the SFA licence is 'conditional'. The footballing authorities still want SEVCO to accept any liabilities arising from the EBT / Dual Contracts, which both Green and McCoist know would mean the removal of any honours 'earned' during the period of these Dual Contracts.

[Jockstar]

From the Sun

JUST who is Neil Lennon trying to kid?

The Celtic manager has come out and said that my old club should lose their championships.

But he knows himself that you can NEVER take away the feeling of winning the SPL — or even walking up the steps of Hampden to lift a cup.

People seem to want to take yet another kick at the club and I agree with Ally McCoist that enough is enough.

Everything has been agreed to get Rangers their SFA membership but there is still talk of taking the titles away if an investigation goes against them.

It would be a symbolic move but what’s the point? What does it achieve? NOTHING.

When you win a title or lift a Scottish Cup it’s all about the memories and that’s something that can never be erased.

You can’t turn back the clock and tell people they didn’t win something even though they got their hands on the trophy.

You can get the Tipp-ex out and change the record books but what you can’t do is take away from the supporters the way they celebrated on those occasions.

And the players who won those titles won’t suddenly feel like losers because a bit of paper has been changed to say they haven’t won it after all.

For me those titles were won fair and square.

I saw someone compare it to drugs cheats in the Tour de France but that’s rubbish.

What Rangers are accused of is trying to dodge the taxman, not cheat the opposition on the park. It would be a different story if it was match fixing like we saw in Italy — but this was nothing to do with the team, it was accountants and lawyers.

Having a tax scheme in place didn’t make the players run any faster or shoot any straighter, they still had to go out and beat the opposition.

The titles issue seems to be the thing that held up Rangers’ SFA membership and I would expect Ally to continue fighting the SPL if they persist in wanting to take anything off the club. Ally wasn’t happy on Friday night and he has made his feelings known.

I completely agree with where he’s coming from.

[ScotsExpat]

Scot Sexpat,

I have no considered argument either for or against your points, your depth of knowledge far exceeds mine.

I am concerned for you however, as it appears to me that you have crossed a line and gone from being knowledgeable to being obsessed.

Lighten up a bit Scotty, possibly you have a chip on your shoulder due to being from Aberdeen and feel that the world has pulled a stroke on you, or you may have ginger hair or BO, I really do not care to speculate.

Jockstar, I shall of course keep the moral high ground and not lower myself to name calling.

However, in reply to rott's statement, I am in no way obsessed and am curious at to how you feel I have crossed a line? I have merely stated the facts as they stand. This is a topic that I do feel strongly about and I only comment on topics where I feel I have some information or a particular view point that I wish known.

I have had messages from non-Scots querying exactly what the situation is with TCFKAR and posted my comments in response to these questions and to try and make a very convoluted situation as clear and transparent as possible.

This is the whole idea of a forum, is it not?

[ScotsExpat]

From the Sun

JUST who is Neil Lennon trying to kid?

The Celtic manager has come out and said that my old club should lose their championships.

But he knows himself that you can NEVER take away the feeling of winning the SPL — or even walking up the steps of Hampden to lift a cup.

People seem to want to take yet another kick at the club and I agree with Ally McCoist that enough is enough.

Everything has been agreed to get Rangers their SFA membership but there is still talk of taking the titles away if an investigation goes against them.

It would be a symbolic move but what’s the point? What does it achieve? NOTHING.

When you win a title or lift a Scottish Cup it’s all about the memories and that’s something that can never be erased.

You can’t turn back the clock and tell people they didn’t win something even though they got their hands on the trophy.

You can get the Tipp-ex out and change the record books but what you can’t do is take away from the supporters the way they celebrated on those occasions.

And the players who won those titles won’t suddenly feel like losers because a bit of paper has been changed to say they haven’t won it after all.

For me those titles were won fair and square.

I saw someone compare it to drugs cheats in the Tour de France but that’s rubbish.

What Rangers are accused of is trying to dodge the taxman, not cheat the opposition on the park. It would be a different story if it was match fixing like we saw in Italy — but this was nothing to do with the team, it was accountants and lawyers.

Having a tax scheme in place didn’t make the players run any faster or shoot any straighter, they still had to go out and beat the opposition.

The titles issue seems to be the thing that held up Rangers’ SFA membership and I would expect Ally to continue fighting the SPL if they persist in wanting to take anything off the club. Ally wasn’t happy on Friday night and he has made his feelings known.

I completely agree with where he’s coming from.

Jockstar, would like to know the author of this in the Sun..

But if taking them away doesn't change things for the payers or fans, why fight the situation so much?

"Having a tax scheme in place didn’t make the players run any faster or shoot any straighter, they still had to go out and beat the opposition."....

The point of this is that, by not paying the tax, they were at an advantage in relation to the monies available to them when it came to offering wages / salaries. Therefore, they would not have been able to afford the type of player they fielded for those years.