British Woman R_aped On Holiday In Pattaya

[Noel]

I wonder why the accused agreed to a re-enactment at the crime scene in front of TV cameras?

Part of a plea bargain maybe.....

Yes, quite possibly.

He may well be guilty as claimed, but this strikes me as being all too convenient.

Nothing to do with appeasing the International Press of course...

[kat]

You really have a grim outlook on Thailands justice system compared to the rest of the world. I know there is corruption here but there is corruption everywhere. The Thai police has as much credibility as police in the west.

The west has their fair share of corruption too. DNA evidence can be faked in the west as easily there as it is here.

I'm sure everyone has read stories of police in the west placing evidence on a suspects just to get a conviction. The police in the west know how to cover their tracks when planting evidence because they know what the CSI people are looking for.

Do you think that because its the year 2006 that this has stopped?

This is a high profile case and the Thai police moved quickly to solve it. Give them the credit they deserve. They did a good job.

Ye gods richard, do you really believe that corruption in the west is nearly as bad as it is here?

I do believe its bad....maybe even worse. But in the west it takes on a different form and covers many different areas.

I'm from the USA, you know the place where we ate Thanksgiving dinner with the Indians, later we killed them, and took their land (because they were savages and didn't know Jesus).

Soon we enslaved the black man for a while before giving them freedom which they only began to enjoy about 30 years ago.

Of course, to protect us from Communism, we invaded Vietnam, Laos, and bombed the hel_l out of Cambodia.

Of course the French and English were already in Southeast Asia spreading the gospel and raping different countries. The English opening up the opium trade from India to China and the French taking whatever they wanted from their corner of Southeast Asia.

Why is it that many places where they French and English failed to colinize the country is a mess today? They never took over Thailand but it seems to be doing ok. But look at the coutries around it.

I think the west invented corruption. If they didn't, they perfected it. Our western values are based of our past history of taking advantage of weaker people.

Then after we become an all powerful nation, we help the weaker, less developed nations out just a little and then gloat about how great our compassion is and try to convince the world they are lucky to have us as a friend.

If that is not corrupt, I don't know what is.

Compared to the west, Thai police are angels and they did a good job in solving this case.

These arguments are so simplistic, I don't even know where to begin. First of all, why don't you try reading other histories besides that of the United States and the West. Asian countries as well as others were raping and pillaging each other long before we arrived. What has happened in may of these countries 30-40 years after independence? For a start, why don't you read the histories of Burma or Cambodia, and if you are intellectually honest, there will be no way you can blame everything on the West.

Did you know that the Carib Indians were raping and pillaging the Arawaks before Colombus even arrived? And I am descendent of Arawak Indians from South America.

Look, I'd love to blame everything on the white man, and big, bad, evil Europeans, who raped and ruined the smiling, gentle, happy, brown people, but life and history is a lot more complicated.

Edited January 17, 2006 by kat

[davethailand]

Questions and comments I have-

English woman raped in Jomtien. Suspect arrested and charged.

A case of suspected rape now from Jomtien involving a female English Tourist which is sure to have repercussions as the story is all over the International press. The case begins on Saturday afternoon when a woman who we will not name for her protection aged 29 from Liverpool, England was enjoying herself with friends in the Tepprasit Road where she participated in a game of “Toglor”, a popular sport here in Thailand.

She had just completed a modeling assignment here in Thailand and decided not to follow the crew and other models back to the UK and instead decided to spend a further week here in Pattaya. On Saturday evening she had arranged to meet friends in Walking Street and waited for a motorbike taxi in front of the KK Advertising Shop.

A Thai man approached on a bike and claimed he was a motorbike taxi driver and could send her to Walking Street but claimed he wanted to go back to his apartment first to collect a safety helmet for her to wear. He made the planned detour to his apartment in Soi 17 on the Tepprasit Road where he allegedly raped the woman in wasteland at the rear of his room.

What time was this? There are bars and kareoke huts all along that street, not to mention other motorbike taxi stands.

Would you normally agree to go via his house first to get a helmet?

I live on that street and you would need to drive off road or quite away down a soi to get in to a spot in the bushes where you would not be heard or seen.

After the attack, the woman called the Tourist Police who quickly made their way to the location and took her back to Dongtan Police sub-station on Jomtien Beach to make a report of the incident. A full description of the attacker was given and Police began to hunt for him.

She called from where?

How come she had thier number?

How the **** did she know where she was, if she knew the area then she might have known not to get on a strange bike especially after hearing that he did'nt have a spare helmet?

Why was the guy still around in the open, why did'nt he go to his room to hide?

On Sunday morning, she accompanied Police to Dongtan Police sub-station where an identity parade was held consisting of five possible suspects. She picked out the arrested individual and suspected rapist named as Khun Pipatpong aged 19 from Nakhon Nayok Province. He confessed to the crime and on Sunday, a reconstruction of the crime took place at the area of wasteland inside Soi 17 which was located just behind the suspect’s apartment. He pointed to the location of the alleged assault and graphically described the attack to officers.

The victim is due to return to England on 9th February and we understand that a trial date for the accused has already been set and the case should be concluded before she returns. The suspect faces a maximum sentence of 15 years in prison without the possibility of an early release if convicted.

With the case involving 21 year old Katherine Horton, from Wales, who was raped and murdered on New Year's Day in Koh Samui, further damage to the reputation of Thailand as a tourist destination is expected because of this second serious criminal case involving a female tourist from the UK in the space of one month.

Monday 16th January 2006

www.pattayacitynews.net

These comments are'nt meant in a bad way but it feels to quick and simple to me after reading and seeing more.

Edited January 17, 2006 by davethailand

[Pattaya_Fox]

If it is true that he has confessed to the crime and graphically described the event....then let there be a trial...the sooner the better.....why should the victim have to travel back from her homeland when she is in Thailand now and the trial can be conducted whilst she is here.

[kat]

I am not disagreeing that dubious claims and arrests happen in Thailand, or that some things don't quite click. I am questioning why so many are assuming her claim is a false one. When there was a false rape claim last year or so by a woman from Hong Kong, the tuk tuk driver denied it, and was right.

Why would this guy agree to a false rape claim, and further, why would authorities frame a false rape claim of a foreigner at this time?

[davethailand]

Is it possible that she knew him or had met him before?

[Pattaya_Fox]

There has nothing been said that we know to indicate that she knew him. Again if the report is correct he approached her and pretended to be a taxi driver.....or do you know some thing Dave that we as yet do not know?

[davethailand]

There has nothing been said that we know to indicate that she knew him. Again if the report is correct he approached her and pretended to be a taxi driver.....or do you know some thing Dave that we as yet do not know?

Dunno, If she has alot of local knowledge about pattaya etc then my questions are completley invalid.

I know the copper on the left thats detaining the man very well, he's a good bloke. Hopefully they'll look after her.

Edited January 17, 2006 by davethailand

[gburns57au]

So let's see, you reason that a rape charge that was lodged the same night, an alledged DNA sample, and a guilty confession by the accused still seems dubious, even after the international spotlight of the Katherine Horton case, which had the authorities including the PM tripping over themselves to rectify immediately because of "severe damage to the Country". And yet, according to your reasoning the authorities are now going to collude in a "fake" rape case of another foreigner, not even 3 weeks after the last scandals.

The report was lodged quickly which gives credit to recent complaint. The DNA report is dubious at best due to the timelines. A confession can be coerced. But now you hit on the meaty part....in regard to the Horton case...Yes the police are now under pressure to solve these crimes quickly, that pressure has been highlighted by Mr TS's statements...I never said it was a collusion by the authorities....It is obvious the effect the Horton case has had on this case not only within the police system, in the media but also on this site...When such an emotive case such as the Horton case arises, people lose their objectivity...they still feel emotionally involved...I hope that you never sit on a jury in a rape case.

The outward basis of your argument thus far include the lack of scratches visible in a little more than thumbprint web photo, and the fact that she was taken to a police station rather than a hospital, in Thailand (meaning, Thailand is obviously not the West; there are no consistent or standardized methodologies or procedures here).

I actually downloaded the pics and then enlarged them....rather than just look at thumbnails...the methodolgy in a rape case is to get the medical evidence no matter what country you live in, medical evidence is the major part of any prosecutions brief... However it is upto the alleged victim if they want to partake in a medical examination. they cannot be forced into it. In Thailand many victims choose not to do this because of various reasons...

And then, you lament the fact that everyone else including the Western justice system is flawed, while you reveal logic that is obviously marred by your own immense biases.

One thing I dont have is a bias in this situation....I have to deal with the victims and the accused on a daily basis...I have to be objective...I dont get emotionally involved...I listen and I dont judge...sure I have my own views after the evidence is complete...but I cant let my views cloud my work performance. BTW...where did I say the western justice system was flawed???

I really hope you are not employed as a lawyer or judge, because I pity the rape victim whose case has to rest with you.

Why because I dont agree with your own views on this and because I dont take everything on face value...because I am presenting the side of things you dont want to hear because you have already hung and quartered this guy ??

Edited January 17, 2006 by gburns57au

[gburns57au]

I am not disagreeing that dubious claims and arrests happen in Thailand, or that some things don't quite click. I am questioning why so many are assuming her claim is a false one. When there was a false rape claim last year or so by a woman from Hong Kong, the tuk tuk driver denied it, and was right.

Why would this guy agree to a false rape claim, and further, why would authorities frame a false rape claim of a foreigner at this time?

I dont think anyone has claimed she is making a false report...yes different motives have been offered as to why she MAY make a false report but this is done on the back of questionable evidence.

yes the girl from HK..it shows that not all is as it first seems.

your last question interests me the most, you have invited speculation and now I will speculate a touch...so please remember it is speculation but it is also a very possible scenatrio.

They obviously arrested this guy pretty quickly...he didnt seem to run away as many would have. So ok he gets taken to the lock up and asked about this incident...the Cops with the Horton case in mind say to him " We can get your DNA from this girl...This will prove our case against you...admit now and co-operate with everthing..you do maybe 4 or 5 years...but if you jerk us around you will serve 15 to 20 years" The guy is on a hiding to nowhere...what does he know about DNA...He knows he had sex with the girl and ejaculated in her....Hey he knows his DNA is inside her. He may know that his DNA can be obtained from forensic checks on his clothes...Please note here the change of clothes in the photo...indicates his own clothes have been taken by forensics which by the way indicates that his DNA was not taken till after the ID session.. This guy is now <deleted> scared of doing a long time in jail....he knows she can ID him because he gave her a lift and chatted her up a bit...<deleted> man I even took her back to where I live. What are his choices now??? Thais are scared of authorities by nature...he weighs his odds up and to what result ??? you tell me??

The authorities are under pressure to solve this crime considering the Horton case...what is known as a flow on effect.

Edited January 17, 2006 by gburns57au

[kat]

A Thai man approached on a bike and claimed he was a motorbike taxi driver and could send her to Walking Street but claimed he wanted to go back to his apartment first to collect a safety helmet for her to wear. He made the planned detour to his apartment in Soi 17 on the Tepprasit Road where he allegedly raped the woman in wasteland at the rear of his room.

So she rode on the back of his bike to near his house without a helmet to pick up a helmet that she could wear to Walking Street. He had told her where he lived or at least the general vicinity...and allegedly raped her in that area.....

DNA does not prove rape....It only shows that the male has had sex with the girl. The subject of consent is another issue entirely.

Now for the confession...as I said in the Samui thread....Sometimes faced with DNA evidence the person may confess...after all he probably has limited knowledge of the DNA system....look at this, this way....

Semen + DNA + Dead body= Murder and possible but likely rape

Semen + DNA = a sexual encounter but without supporting evidence then it means nothing, it just means they had sex.

So far I have yet to see supporting evidence presented in the reports. There is nothing to suggest she was a first time tourist based on the reports listed here.

Could I suggest it would be unlikely that a rapist would work so close to home and tell her where he lived....Could this be a case of mistaken but honest belief.....could it be that she has cried rape because of whatever reason ?????

We also have three different scenarios now...a wasteland behind his apartment, a dark road, and the beach.....

Sorry guys the inconsistancies are here that are not here in the other case.....

If he did it, he deserves all he gets....but there are discrepancies here....he needs legal advice and quick before the less objective members of TV string him up from the nearest tree.

Where have I called to hang and quarter the guy? As a matter of fact, I would never call to hang and quarter anyone, as I much rather the rule of law, and I am against the death penalty.

I think that comment is a knee-jerk, blanket response, as I also believe about your logic in this case. Your above comments demonstrate that you are already dismissing this victim's claims, based on your own conjecture and not on what has been presented. I can also see that you don't live here, and know very little about how things really work in Thailand. It is not hard to believe at all that police would not take someone to a hospital after rape here, even though it is standard protocol everywhere. Protocol means nothing here.

There is also not a lot of planning on average. Your only reasons for dismissing her claim are based on behavior and what you perceive as human logic, but those things vary greatly from culture to culture, and legal environments.

And you comment on my objectivity?

gburns quote:

"One thing I dont have is a bias in this situation....I have to deal with the victims and the accused on a daily basis...I have to be objective...I dont get emotionally involved...I listen and I dont judge...sure I have my own views after the evidence is complete...but I cant let my views cloud my work performance. BTW...where did I say the western justice system was flawed???"

You have commented on the judicial process and fake rape claims on other threads. But back to this one ... You are questioning a woman's rape claim with very little to go on except your own theories.

And you still haven't answered the most important question: MOTIVE. Why on earth would police lodge a bogus rape claim at this juncture? Let's see, in addition to this victim being a woman, and having to endure the kinds of attitudes which you display, she is in another country that does not easily side with foreigners, and she has to file a rape claim in the midst of a major embarassment for them ... but you continue to question my "emotionalism" and lack of objectivity .... ho hum

gburns quote:

"So ok he gets taken to the lock up and asked about this incident...the Cops with the Horton case in mind say to him " We can get your DNA from this girl...This will prove our case against you...admit now and co-operate with everthing..you do maybe 4 or 5 years...but if you jerk us around you will serve 15 to 20 years" The guy is on a hiding to nowhere...what does he know about DNA...He knows he had sex with the girl and ejaculated in her....Hey he knows his DNA is inside her. He may know that his DNA can be obtained from forensic checks on his clothes...Please note here the change of clothes in the photo...indicates his own clothes have been taken by forensics which by the way indicates that his DNA was not taken till after the ID session.. This guy is now <deleted> scared of doing a long time in jail....he knows she can ID him because he gave her a lift and chatted her up a bit...<deleted> man I even took her back to where I live. What are his choices now??? Thais are scared of authorities by nature...he weighs his odds up and to what result ??? you tell me??"

gburns, your entire argument rests on the premise that the girl is lying. That is your entire argument. I am not saying it is impossible, but based on the information that we have, I fail to see an objective reason as to why you would favor that conclusion over the others.

Edited January 17, 2006 by kat

[sriracha john]

Additional information for those sleuthing about :

From Liverpool.co.uk

The 29-year-old model and singer, who was attacked by a man who gave her a lift, will become the first British rape victim in Thailand to give evidence against her alleged attacker tomorrow.

The victim spent Sunday being interrogated by male officers in the Pattaya police station, and undergoing medical tests in the nearby Banglamuang hospital.

Police arrested and charged 19-year-old Pipatpong Raksern, nicknamed "Keng" meaning "strong and smart", who is on the run from two rapes in the Thai province of Nakorn Nayok. He faces up to 15 years in jail if convicted.

Maj Gen Asuwin said: "He has confessed to this and two earlier rapes for which warrants had been issued for his arrest."

A Thai court is to have a special sitting tomorrow so the victim can give evidence before her holiday ends.

No British rape victims in recent memory have volunteered to give evidence against their attackers in Thailand, although British Embassy officials say rapes are not infrequent.

[meom]

You might want to expand on your crocodile anology there because right now it seems you are implying the guy did what comes naturally - oh right so I guess this is all her fault!!

WISteve you were spot on!

It was not my intention to dispute the guilt of the rapist.

Instead my comment had to do with the circumstances that led to the event and if the victim has any responsibility towards the creation of an atmosphere that would favor a rapist.

You can argue about that as some posters did (why did she go home alone etc.) but this argument does not in any way lessen the guilt of the rapist.

[Boo]

the plot thickens

[sriracha john]

I'm half-expecting for gburns to run a hypothesis that the rapist is actually just a serial confessor and not a serial rapist..

[Boo]

[kat]

I'm half-expecting for gburns to run a hypothesis that the rapist is actually just a serial confessor and not a serial rapist..

Right, or for someone to pose another animal theory, on how rapists are just doing what comes natural if women "incite" rape Where the <deleted> do these people come from, the Northern Territories of Afghanistan?

Do children invite or incite abuse by their behavior, too? bloody, <deleted> unbelivable.

[gburns57au]

Where have I called to hang and quarter the guy? As a matter of fact, I would never call to hang and quarter anyone, as I much rather the rule of law, and I am against the death penalty.

I think that comment is a knee-jerk, blanket response, as I also believe about your logic in this case. Your above comments demonstrate that you are already dismissing this victim's claims, based on your own conjecture and not on what has been presented. I can also see that you don't live here, and know very little about how things really work in Thailand. It is not hard to believe at all that police would not take someone to a hospital after rape here, even though it is standard protocol everywhere. Protocol means nothing here.

There is also not a lot of planning on average. Your only reasons for dismissing her claim are based on behavior and what you perceive as human logic, but those things vary greatly from culture to culture, and legal environments.

And you comment on my objectivity?

gburns quote:

"One thing I dont have is a bias in this situation....I have to deal with the victims and the accused on a daily basis...I have to be objective...I dont get emotionally involved...I listen and I dont judge...sure I have my own views after the evidence is complete...but I cant let my views cloud my work performance. BTW...where did I say the western justice system was flawed???"

You have commented on the judicial process and fake rape claims on other threads. But back to this one ... You are questioning a woman's rape claim with very little to go except your own conjectures.

Kat your emotions are showing now.....that term is oft used to describe someone who tries and finds someone guilty without knowing the facts or that use the facts to support their own beliefs...I didnt seriously suggest you supported the death penalty..but it shows the level of emotion you have in this case and that does affect your objectivety.

I dont have to live in Thailand to understand the systems there....there are some people who live in Thailand and still cant get their head around the basic culture, let alone the judicial system. Living there does not make anyone an authority on the way of life there.

Why is it so hard for you to agree that if the police wanted to make a watertight case that they wouldnt seek a medical opinion to present to the court....this evidence may also result in an admiision of guilt by the suspect. Do you really believe that the police would not do everything they could to nail this guy totally??? Moreso since the publicity of the Samui case???

I dont dismiss her claims... but a good defence lawyer could rip this case apart....maybe why the cops wanted the admission, so no defence is offered.

I am basing my opinions based on the facts presented to us....I can see holes in the story...it is not as cut and clear as you seem to think it is...you base your opinion on three things....her ID, the admission, and the Supposed DNA....there are possible flaws in these three areas...Flaws that any good defence lawyer could work with. This doesnt mean that the guy will be found innocent only that there is reasonable doubt as to his guilt...I have never said that he was innocent or that he was guilty...just there is reasonable doubt in this case....the Samui case based on that evidence left little to reasonable doubt.

Each case is different and to look objectively means that sometimes you may not always reach the same conclusions...keep an open mind and read the facts presented without predjudice or bias....You will find that you may surprise yourself.

[sriracha john]

don't bother, Kat... there's no need.

[aqua4]

Kat, please don't answer him. To many CIS movies!

[I wonder]

Take a look at the UK newspapers..................some guy raped a 12 WEEK OLD girl while his girlfriend watched........I am incapable of discribing my emotions at an act so despicable and it's not the first case in the UK of that nature.

Something wrong

[gburns57au]

Additional information for those sleuthing about :

From Liverpool.co.uk

The 29-year-old model and singer, who was attacked by a man who gave her a lift, will become the first British rape victim in Thailand to give evidence against her alleged attacker tomorrow.

The victim spent Sunday being interrogated by male officers in the Pattaya police station, and undergoing medical tests in the nearby Banglamuang hospital.

Police arrested and charged 19-year-old Pipatpong Raksern, nicknamed "Keng" meaning "strong and smart", who is on the run from two rapes in the Thai province of Nakorn Nayok. He faces up to 15 years in jail if convicted.

Maj Gen Asuwin said: "He has confessed to this and two earlier rapes for which warrants had been issued for his arrest."

A Thai court is to have a special sitting tomorrow so the victim can give evidence before her holiday ends.

No British rape victims in recent memory have volunteered to give evidence against their attackers in Thailand, although British Embassy officials say rapes are not infrequent.

I just put your source to a search and guess what ???

Kat, please don't answer him. To many CIS movies!

Sorry Aqua4 .....I dont watch television that much.

[Pattaya_Fox]

Where have I called to hang and quarter the guy? As a matter of fact, I would never call to hang and quarter anyone, as I much rather the rule of law, and I am against the death penalty.

I think that comment is a knee-jerk, blanket response, as I also believe about your logic in this case. Your above comments demonstrate that you are already dismissing this victim's claims, based on your own conjecture and not on what has been presented. I can also see that you don't live here, and know very little about how things really work in Thailand. It is not hard to believe at all that police would not take someone to a hospital after rape here, even though it is standard protocol everywhere. Protocol means nothing here.

There is also not a lot of planning on average. Your only reasons for dismissing her claim are based on behavior and what you perceive as human logic, but those things vary greatly from culture to culture, and legal environments.

And you comment on my objectivity?

gburns quote:

"One thing I dont have is a bias in this situation....I have to deal with the victims and the accused on a daily basis...I have to be objective...I dont get emotionally involved...I listen and I dont judge...sure I have my own views after the evidence is complete...but I cant let my views cloud my work performance. BTW...where did I say the western justice system was flawed???"

You have commented on the judicial process and fake rape claims on other threads. But back to this one ... You are questioning a woman's rape claim with very little to go except your own conjectures.

Kat your emotions are showing now.....that term is oft used to describe someone who tries and finds someone guilty without knowing the facts or that use the facts to support their own beliefs...I didnt seriously suggest you supported the death penalty..but it shows the level of emotion you have in this case and that does affect your objectivety.

I dont have to live in Thailand to understand the systems there....there are some people who live in Thailand and still cant get their head around the basic culture, let alone the judicial system. Living there does not make anyone an authority on the way of life there.

Why is it so hard for you to agree that if the police wanted to make a watertight case that they wouldnt seek a medical opinion to present to the court....this evidence may also result in an admiision of guilt by the suspect. Do you really believe that the police would not do everything they could to nail this guy totally??? Moreso since the publicity of the Samui case???

I dont dismiss her claims... but a good defence lawyer could rip this case apart....maybe why the cops wanted the admission, so no defence is offered.

I am basing my opinions based on the facts presented to us....I can see holes in the story...it is not as cut and clear as you seem to think it is...you base your opinion on three things....her ID, the admission, and the Supposed DNA....there are possible flaws in these three areas...Flaws that any good defence lawyer could work with. This doesnt mean that the guy will be found innocent only that there is reasonable doubt as to his guilt...I have never said that he was innocent or that he was guilty...just there is reasonable doubt in this case....the Samui case based on that evidence left little to reasonable doubt.

Each case is different and to look objectively means that sometimes you may not always reach the same conclusions...keep an open mind and read the facts presented without predjudice or bias....You will find that you may surprise yourself.

.....but gburns he has CONFESSED to the RAPE....he has admitted he raped this lady.

Your retoric about possible flaws will have no bearing whatsoever in any court including a Thai court if as it seems he pleads guilty to this crime.

[gburns57au]

.....but gburns he has CONFESSED to the RAPE....he has admitted he raped this lady.

Your retoric about possible flaws will have no bearing whatsoever in any court including a Thai court if as it seems he pleads guilty to this crime.

If the confession was obtained under threat or duress then it would not be admissible...We will never know here if that was the case, which is why I have only touched on this when invited to speculate.....

If there was anything proven improper in the way the confession was obtained then a good lawyer would be able to have this disregarded. However this is unlikely to happen as the police will not reveal all to the court..so the confession will more than likely stand.

Why the Thais dont have video records of interviews with the suspects, I dont know. ..well maybe I do

[kamalit]

I hate to be provocative (it's a Thai thing) but; 1. accepting a ride from any man in Pattaya??? 2. how many rapes/murders actually occured considering there must be 1000's of tourists in Thailand and 3. what if the opposite happened where a Thai girl was raped by a white guy, I don't think the same uproar would be created due to some double standards.

[LaoPo]

what if the opposite happened where a Thai girl was raped by a white guy, I don't think the same uproar would be created due to some double standards.

I'm afraid that such cases also happen in Thailand and indeed the uproar wouldn't be 'that' high.

But the crime is absolutely the same in my eyes and the Farang should be punished as hard as a Thai guy.

The only difference is that in a case that a Farang raped a Thai girl, the Tourist industry probably wouldn't be hurt as much as the way around.

LaoPo

[WISteve]

"I hate to be provocative (it's a Thai thing) but; 1. accepting a ride from any man in Pattaya??? "

If you read the account, and Howard has been kind enough to interject that he has a high degree of confidence in that report, he was representing himself as a moto taxi. Apparently convincingly so. Thousands of women, thai and falang, ride on motos every day in Pattaya.

The only two people who TRULY know what happened, regardless of all this sheer speculation, are in agreement. She said he raped her. He confessed that he did.

Give the b*llshit speculation a rest.

Put some energy into preventing the next one, because that one might hit a little closer to home....

Education is a good thing. Women need to be aware of potential danger to their safety.

But sometimes even if they are doing everything "right" they happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong moment. Publicizing every assault and vigorous prosecution of every attacker is another form of education. Swift and sure justice that is made known to every potential criminal has an affect as well IMO. Trying to find a "cultural" excuse or saying it happens all the time (hence giving them tacit approval) will only encourage monstrous behavior.

~WISteve

Edited January 18, 2006 by WISteve

[sriracha john]

I just put your source to a search and guess what ???

Guess again. It simply means I glanced at the top of their website (livepool.co.uk), when I typed their addy...

but to satisfy you, it should be:

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/

but thanks for not disappointing me in STILL proferring your hypothesis of ...

as mentioned earlier, I half-expected it.

Edited January 19, 2006 by sriracha john

[somchai jones]

"I hate to be provocative (it's a Thai thing) but; 1. accepting a ride from any man in Pattaya??? "

If you read the account, and Howard has been kind enough to interject that he has a high degree of confidence in that report, he was representing himself as a moto taxi. Apparently convincingly so. Thousands of women, thai and falang, ride on motos every day in Pattaya.

The only two people who TRULY know what happened, regardless of all this sheer speculation, are in agreement. She said he raped her. He confessed that he did.

Give the b*llshit speculation a rest.

Put some energy into preventing the next one, because that one might hit a little closer to home....

Education is a good thing. Women need to be aware of potential danger to their safety.

But sometimes even if they are doing everything "right" they happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong moment. Publicizing every assault and vigorous prosecution of every attacker is another form of education. Swift and sure justice that is made known to every potential criminal has an affect as well IMO. Trying to find a "cultural" excuse or saying it happens all the time (hence giving them tacit approval) will only encourage monstrous behavior.

~WISteve

At last, common sense prevails.

[sriracha john]

Maybe this can put gburns onto sleuthing a DIFFERENT case:

My Thailand Rape Terror

Jan 18 2006

The 28-year-old part-time singer told how her screams for help went unanswered when she was attacked after accepting a lift from a motorcyclist in the holiday resort of Pattaya.

The woman - the first British tourist to bring a rape suspect to a Thai court - wept as she agreed the deep bite marks in Pipatpong Raksern's shoulder were made by her as she desperately tried to fight him off.

Pipatpong, who was on the run from two other rapes in another part of Thailand, had confessed he attacked the woman when arrested by police.

His victim told the court: "I felt very, very scared. It was a nightmare.

"I never imagined that a polite, apparently helpful stranger could turn into an opportunistic violator who later showed no remorse."

She told the court she had been partying with friends and their group was kicking a Thai-style rattan football in the street when he passed on a small motorbike and stopped to chat.

She then accepted a lift to the nearby seafront watch Liverpool FC play Spurs last Saturday but Pipatpong suddenly accelerated down several back streets with the startled woman clinging to the bike.

The Judge, Santat Nipawong, was told Pipatpong was probably looking for a quiet spot to attack her.

His victim told the court: "He stopped, threw me to the ground, jumped on me and raped me.

"He turned my world upside down. My calls for help went unanswered."

Pipatpong was made to lift his shirt to show a deep bruise on his shoulder that his victim said showed her teeth marks.

Asked by the judge why he had raped the woman Pipatpong, wearing jeans and a T-shirt, replied: "Lust".

Police Major General Asuwin Khwanmuang, who was also an investigator in the New Year's Day Katherine Horton rape and murder case, said that Mr Pipatpong was on the run from two rapes in the Thai province of Nakorn Nayok.

The British honorary consul in Pattaya, Barry Kenyon, praised the "extreme bravery" of the woman.

*AS DO I*

The victim said afterwards: "It has been a very traumatic time. I look forward to putting this horror behind me very soon. I appreciate very much the prompt attention which the Thai police have given to the case."

Pipatpong was given a sharp prod in the back by a waiting policeman to make him stand up to hear the judge, who told him: "You've hurt another person and you've ruined your own life. We shall see in the future what your punishment will be."