Update On Licensing Requirements For Tourists In Thailand

[Deaw]

OK, so it happened again today.

Cruising down 2nd road in Pattaya on my rented 'cycle, not far from the Central Mall; must've been about 30 cops there, with the orange cones and some barricades, flashing red lights, etc.....pulling over EVERY motorcycle, farang and Thai alike. This was at 5pm.

I got waved over by 2 guys .... helmet on; check. One says "license, please", and I hand him my N.Y. state drivers license. While he is looking it over, I say "I am a tourist here, I don't live in Thailand". Then I point to the "M.C." next to the Operator code and tell them "M.C., that means motorcycle".

The older of the 2 says "OK" and they stand aside and let me pass. Total time wasted; 30 seconds.

Total bribe and/or fine paid, and total number of laws broken; None.

Seems like the Jomtien Police were 100% wrong last week and simply robbing tourists. Shocking.

Seems like the Pattaya police and anyone who says all you need to drive in Thailand [as long as you are not a full-time resident] is a valid license from wherever you come from had it right.

[thedivezone]

Good to hear there are actually cops out there that know the rules .

Although i daresay the ones that tried to hit on you last time knew them as well, but sensed that you were not knowledgable on the requirements,

so decided to try and pull a fast one.

[thedivezone]

Great idea by the way you pointing out to them the relevant points before they even start, demonstrating to them that you know the rules and won't be bullshitted with. Smooth sailing !

[phl]

Actually you were simply lucky, because your USA drivers license is NOT an acceptable form of license. An international license is the only acceptable license.

[phl]

Great idea by the way you pointing out to them the relevant points before they even start, demonstrating to them that you know the rules and won't be bullshitted with. Smooth sailing !

what rules?

[thedivezone]

Actually you were simply lucky, because your USA drivers license is NOT an acceptable form of license. An international license is the only acceptable license.

Here we go again !

[phl]

Actually you were simply lucky, because your USA drivers license is NOT an acceptable form of license. An international license is the only acceptable license.

Here we go again !

do you have a problem with the facts?

[thedivezone]

Great idea by the way you pointing out to them the relevant points before they even start, demonstrating to them that you know the rules and won't be bullshitted with. Smooth sailing !

what rules?

Read this thread : http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/570082-so-i-was-cruising-along-on-my-cycle-today-in-jomtien-and/

[phl]

Great idea by the way you pointing out to them the relevant points before they even start, demonstrating to them that you know the rules and won't be bullshitted with. Smooth sailing !

what rules?

Read this thread : http://www.thaivisa....in-jomtien-and/

for what? rules and regulations are still the same no matter how many times you visit or how much you complain.

sometimes you get lucky and other times you pay.

PS. Really smart move to "show" you know the rules, next time it may cost you double

[NomadJoe]

Great idea by the way you pointing out to them the relevant points before they even start, demonstrating to them that you know the rules and won't be bullshitted with. Smooth sailing !

what rules?

Read this thread : http://www.thaivisa....in-jomtien-and/

for what? rules and regulations are still the same no matter how many times you visit or how much you complain.

sometimes you get lucky and other times you pay.

PS. Really smart move to "show" you know the rules, next time it may cost you double

I am doing some research and will soon post the references which people keep asking me for which will show that a foreign license if in English and with a photo is defined as an "international license" by police, rental companies, and insurance, thus no IDP is required to drive as a tourist in Thailand.

[PoodMaiDai]

Actually you were simply lucky, because your USA drivers license is NOT an acceptable form of license. An international license is the only acceptable license.

They don't know any better. I've been using an expired international drivers license here for 6 years now. Most of them can't read English well enough to even know the difference. They just want to see something official.

You could probably give most of these guys a library card from your home country and they wouldn't notice. Likewise, they can hand me a library card (as if they had such a thing here) and I wouldn't know what it was.

[krobert6]

Actually you were simply lucky, because your USA drivers license is NOT an acceptable form of license. An international license is the only acceptable license.

I was stopped a couple of years back and showed them my International Licence - they just shrugged their shoulders and asked for the real oine, they were happy with the Aussie one.

[theoldgit]

Actually you were simply lucky, because your USA drivers license is NOT an acceptable form of license. An international license is the only acceptable license.

I am not being sarcastic here, but you clearly know what the regulations actually are, I don't. It would be really helpful if you could let us have the source of your knowledge so we can put this to bed once and for all.

Thank you very much.

[bdenner]

Actually you were simply lucky, because your USA drivers license is NOT an acceptable form of license. An international license is the only acceptable license.

Rubbish!

Major car rental companies (Budget, Avis and the like) accept foreign licenses from most anywhere. You think they would jeopardise there insurance position by encouraging customers to break the law?

A visitor CAN use his/her drivers license for a limited time!

[geriatrickid]

Actually you were simply lucky, because your USA drivers license is NOT an acceptable form of license. An international license is the only acceptable license.

Rubbish!

Major car rental companies (Budget, Avis and the like) accept foreign licenses from most anywhere. You think they would jeopardise there insurance position by encouraging customers to break the law?

A visitor CAN use his/her drivers license for a limited time!

Sorry, but no.

Have you ever read the rental contract? Sometimes the websites give information, and sometimes they do not. The honest rental franchises are transparent;

Let's look at AVIS; http://www.avisthail..._guide_info.php

Renter Information

- Minimum renter age is 23 years.

- Renter must hold Driving License or International Driving License at least one year.

- Renter must have a valid major credit card.

By driving license they mean a Thai drivers license as stated in the rental contract. That's why the web site states;

Other terms and conditions of the rental are subject to the conditions at the reverse side of Rental Agreement which will be provided upon rental.

Anyone can rent an automobile if they have an accepted credit card and are age 23. Only legally licensed drivers are allowed to drive. Big difference. The rental contract makes reference to a valid Thai license holder or an IDL holder as being legally allowed to drive.

Now let's look at Budget. I like Budget because it is more specific;

Terms and Conditions on the Rental Agreement for Use The wording on the rental agreement for use is as follows:

3) USE RESTRICTIONS: The Vehicle will not be used or operated by anyone:

A. who is not an Authorized Driver;

One then has to go to the master rental agreement because the rental contract states;

Additional Terms and Conditiond for Fastbreak Rentals in Thailand

1.0 About Your Rental Agreement

1.1 The Worldwide Master Rental Agreement made between You and Budget comprises of:

-t he Worldwide Terms and Conditions;

One then has to go look for what is an Authorized driver. Aside from the obligation to declare all drivers there is this nugget;

Who May Drive the Car

• You represent that you are a capable and validly licensed driver. You agree that we have the right to verify that your license has been validly issued and is in good standing; and that we may refuse to rent to you if your license has been suspended, revoked, otherwise restricted in any way, or if your driving record is unsatisfactory to us.
  

In Thailand, the law is that one must have a valid Thai drivers license. A foreign driver's license is accepted if it is validated by the International Drivers Permit/License.

Do I really need to go through all the rental contracts to prove my point? I am not a member of the Thai bar, but my employers employ professional law firms and in the travel guidelines that are published, the legal counsel position is that foreign driving licenses are only accepted if accompanied by the International attestation that the foreign license is valid at the time of of the IDL issue.

You don't have to believe me, but I caution you of one clause common to all rental contracts; Any false or misleading statement will invalidate the rental contract.

[cornishcarlos]

Just get a Thai license and save any hassle..

Doesn't take long and costs less than a night on the pi**...

Simples

[phl]

I am doing some research and will soon post the references which people keep asking me for which will show that a foreign license if in English and with a photo is defined as an "international license" by police, rental companies, and insurance, thus no IDP is required to drive as a tourist in Thailand.

Grossly incorrect, you do not need to do"research" just pick up insurance policy and see the small print where you will find (written in Thai naturally) that the policy covers only the driver with valid local drivers license.

Just a license from your home country in english does not make it an international drivers license,

At some Department of Land and Transportation office when applying for local license, they will not accept it all, and do require an international license.

[phl]

Actually you were simply lucky, because your USA drivers license is NOT an acceptable form of license. An international license is the only acceptable license.

I am not being sarcastic here, but you clearly know what the regulations actually are, I don't. It would be really helpful if you could let us have the source of your knowledge so we can put this to bed once and for all.

Thank you very much.

Certainly, you can contact local police or department of land and transportation

or can also use some websites as a reference if you like.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CJgBEBYwBA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thaiconsul-uk.com%2Fdownload.aspx%3Fid%3D4&ei=KkoKUJDjBdDrrQeG4PzICA&usg=AFQjCNEgMaJvsq8JbKUMqt_g93uHLI0bwg

http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0140_5.pdf

http://driving.information.in.th/thai-dmv.html

http://www.thailawonline.com/en/others/thai-driving-licences.html

[Deaw]

Man, I wish we could get a final ruling on this......the Pattaya police seemed content with my USA license yesterday, I do know that for sure.

Your mileage may vary depending on what city/province you are in, how much bribe money the cops need to make their quota that day, whether they can read/understand English, etc......as usual, TIT!

going back to the states for 3 or 4 months on friday, when I come back I will see about getting a local license, but since I am not a resident here in any way, shape or form I don't know how that's even possible? Man, things are much easier on Koh Phangan - wear your helmet, never get pulled over; simple. I think Samui is the same way as well.....

[phl]

Man, I wish we could get a final ruling on this......the Pattaya police seemed content with my USA license yesterday, I do know that for sure.

Your mileage may vary depending on what city/province you are in, how much bribe money the cops need to make their quota that day, whether they can read/understand English, etc......as usual, TIT!

going back to the states for 3 or 4 months on friday, when I come back I will see about getting a local license, but since I am not a resident here in any way, shape or form I don't know how that's even possible? Man, things are much easier on Koh Phangan - wear your helmet, never get pulled over; simple. I think Samui is the same way as well.....

Legally you must have an International License, however if they need to make some money, even that will not save you from being fined.

Sometime showing home license works, sometimes it does not. Sometimes telling officer that you coming from Temple gets you off the hook without even showing anything.

Point is, even doing everything legally does not always spare you from being fined. Sure you can fight it and go to court, but why even bother over 500 baht.

[Tafia]

Or were the police 100% wrong THIS week??? I would'nt be giving this out as an update on what's correct because all my sources say your wrong.

Wait till you have an accident...then you will know for sure because it's unlikely the insurance will pay out. Check your insurance policy or maybe you only have the Thai compulsory Ins (not worth the paper its written on) I told you this on another post, you need an IDP with your licence or a local licence. If in doubt go ask any insurer. I have read and heard about too many incidents where in event of injury or death, Insurance companies just dont pay out and are quick to point out the fine print, include many travel insurances in this. You say you are a tourist but have a Non O visa...could be a problem for you if anyone was to seriously check should you be unfortunate to have that accident.

But hey you seem hell bent on doing what you want, and while you get away with it without injury you will continue to put yourself and others at risk.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Tafia

[MrRealDeal]

If you get the international one it's good everywhere not just Thailand , but a Thai licence is easy to get as well.

I also show them an expired ID only card if they ask for a licence and they never say anything about it. But like the other poster said the insurance would not pay out if they didnt want to.

Edited July 21, 2012 by MrRealDeal

[ballbreaker]

Following is from the Vienna Convention 1968 that addresses Convention on Road Traffic. Thailand has signed this Convention.

Contracting Parties shall recognize:

(a) Any domestic permit drawn up in their national language or in one of

their national languages, or, if not drawn up in such a language, accompanied by a

certified translation;

( Any domestic permit conforming to the provisions of Annex 6 to this

Convention; and

© Any international permit conforming to the provisions of Annex 7 to

this Convention;

as valid for driving in their territories a vehicle coming within the categories

covered by the permit, provided that the permit is still valid and that it was

issued by another Contracting Party or subdivision thereof or by an association

duly empowered thereto by such other Contracting Party. The provisions of this

paragraph shall not apply to learner-driver permits.

For more info on this subject you can read the full text of Convention of Road Traffic at:

http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/conventn/crt1968e.pdf

Edited July 21, 2012 by ballbreaker

[MrRealDeal]

This comes from a Thai Law website : An international driver's license is accepted in Thailand as long as its valid normally 12 months. A foreign license holds no weight here. If you decide to stay in Thailand you should obtain a Thai license. You need to have a current Thai license to obtain Thai International license after holding for 1 year.

Some Insurance companies will put in fine print in Thai that you must be the holder of a CURRENT DRIVERS LICENSE which means a THAI DRIVERS' LICENSE not an international to claim insurance if you have an accident.

A secondairy site said the same thing ........ : The legal driving age in Thailand is 18 for car drivers and at least 15 years of age for motorbike drivers. All tourists to Thailand are required to have an International Drivers’ License on their person at all times while operating a vehicle. It is also advisable to carry a copy of your passport information page and Thai visa with you at all times.

Edited July 21, 2012 by MrRealDeal

[collectskulls]

http://www.budget.co.th/tips_driving.aspx#DL

http://www.thairentacar.com/RentalGuides/

http://www.hertzthailand.com/EN/Terms.aspx

[waza]

When ever the BIB pulled me over and asked for my "diving lycen", I would show the my PADI internetional Diving Licence. It has worked with every BIB except the one who was a PADI instructor on the side, but he accepted my Aussie licence.

[rizla]

If you get the international one it's good everywhere not just Thailand , but a Thai licence is easy to get as well.

I also show them an expired ID only card if they ask for a licence and they never say anything about it. But like the other poster said the insurance would not pay out if they didnt want to.

It`s not an international driving licence, it`s an IDP international drivers permit...which should be held along with a current licence from your home country...and i THINK the IDP is only valid for either 3 or 6 months continuous use, (not sure ?) even although it is a 12 month permit from your issuing office....it wont matter much if you are on a non O as you will be doing a border run every 3 months but if you are on an extension for example, i would check that out as an extension you don`t leave thailand only report....

[NanLaew]

Oh dear.... the ignorant resorting to name calling so early in the day.

There is no 'International Driving License' or IDL. There is an 'International Driving Permit' or IDP that is issued to be used IN CONJUNCTION with your home country's Driving License (DL) when overseas. The IDP contains the details taken from your domestic DL and does not have any standalone validity in foreign countries and is ILLEGAL to be used in the holders home country.

An IDP is valid for 12 months. A bona fide Tourist can use the IDP in conjunction with their home DL for as long as the IDP is valid. If the foreigner is not a Tourist and spending more than 3 months in Thailand, then they should apply for a Thai DL. Depending on what jurisdiction you live in, the LTO issuing the Thai DL may accept copies of your IDP as part of the application support but they will ALWAYS want copies of your home country's full DL.

Those using expired DL's and divers ID cards.... well, that's nothing new now is it?

Edited July 22, 2012 by NanLaew

[Soutpeel]

Actually there is no such thing as an international driving license...the proper name for the document being referred to is an international driving permit (IDP) and an IDP is mearly a "legalised" translation of your current valid home countries DL.

An IDP is not a license by any stretch of the immigination.

Now a couple of points on IDP's

1. Typically only valid for a period of 12 months (and I believe in Thailand you can only drive for a period of 3 months on an IDP)

2. When presenting you IDP it should be presented along with your valid DL, if not, the document itself means sh*t

3. "UN licenses" advertised on the internet are not legal

4. Car hire company may or may not require an IDP, read the small print, if so required and you have an accident, any insurance may be invalidated

Edited September 13, 2012 by Rimmer
quoted reply of removed

[bdenner]

Actually you were simply lucky, because your USA drivers license is NOT an acceptable form of license. An international license is the only acceptable license.

Rubbish!

Major car rental companies (Budget, Avis and the like) accept foreign licenses from most anywhere. You think they would jeopardise there insurance position by encouraging customers to break the law?

A visitor CAN use his/her drivers license for a limited time!

Sorry, but no.

Have you ever read the rental contract? Sometimes the websites give information, and sometimes they do not. The honest rental franchises are transparent;

Let's look at AVIS; http://www.avisthail..._guide_info.php

Renter Information

- Minimum renter age is 23 years.

- Renter must hold Driving License or International Driving License at least one year.

- Renter must have a valid major credit card.

By driving license they mean a Thai drivers license as stated in the rental contract. That's why the web site states;

Other terms and conditions of the rental are subject to the conditions at the reverse side of Rental Agreement which will be provided upon rental.

Anyone can rent an automobile if they have an accepted credit card and are age 23. Only legally licensed drivers are allowed to drive. Big difference. The rental contract makes reference to a valid Thai license holder or an IDL holder as being legally allowed to drive.

Now let's look at Budget. I like Budget because it is more specific;

Terms and Conditions on the Rental Agreement for Use The wording on the rental agreement for use is as follows:

3) USE RESTRICTIONS: The Vehicle will not be used or operated by anyone:

A. who is not an Authorized Driver;

One then has to go to the master rental agreement because the rental contract states;

Additional Terms and Conditiond for Fastbreak Rentals in Thailand

1.0 About Your Rental Agreement

1.1 The Worldwide Master Rental Agreement made between You and Budget comprises of:

-t he Worldwide Terms and Conditions;

One then has to go look for what is an Authorized driver. Aside from the obligation to declare all drivers there is this nugget;

Who May Drive the Car

• You represent that you are a capable and validly licensed driver. You agree that we have the right to verify that your license has been validly issued and is in good standing; and that we may refuse to rent to you if your license has been suspended, revoked, otherwise restricted in any way, or if your driving record is unsatisfactory to us.
  

In Thailand, the law is that one must have a valid Thai drivers license. A foreign driver's license is accepted if it is validated by the International Drivers Permit/License.

Do I really need to go through all the rental contracts to prove my point? I am not a member of the Thai bar, but my employers employ professional law firms and in the travel guidelines that are published, the legal counsel position is that foreign driving licenses are only accepted if accompanied by the International attestation that the foreign license is valid at the time of of the IDL issue.

You don't have to believe me, but I caution you of one clause common to all rental contracts; Any false or misleading statement will invalidate the rental contract.

This is obviously your interpretation and comments are yours NOT LAW!

LOOK AT @collectskulls post 25 all renters clearly states Thai OR Current License OR International Permit if the drivers license is not in english.

Edited July 22, 2012 by bdenner