Fake Document Got Abhisit His Military Job, Defence Ministry Says

[AleG]

I'm simply amazed at the speed and synchronicity some people have grown an uncompromising sense of ethics.

[mca]

Them throwing this 'diversion' 1986 non-story to their lapdogs and their baying hounds, is I'm sure enough diversion for simple minded loyal canines but it doesn't interest most educated human beings at all.

Good dog. Have a biscuit.

Comparing certain segments of the Thai people to dogs.How utterly charming.

[Greer]

So the law is not an important issue?

The law say farang cannot be PM. If we found a smart Farang (verey unlikely), he/she produce a fake citizen paper, we make him/her a PM, is it OK?

The law say all govt official need to go to army or have a Sor Dor 9 examption, he/she produce a fake Sor Dor 9 (which incidentally he managed to lost it twice, the real and the copy version), we make him/her a PM, is it OK?

I said if he broke a minor draft law then it is an issue. But it is not an important issue. Because it is not.

What interests me more is the way these jack-in-a-box posts suddenly appear by magic when DP make any small infraction and yet they are never here to post on the majority of days when PTP are breaking privacy laws, UDHR agreements, conflict of interests, treason, etc. These far more serious PTP crimes which people do not pop up to comment on.

My point was not actually crime related, but government energies related. When the country is run by petty vindictive nobodies who do not work on infrastructure because they are more interested in twenty year old draft papers, then there is something very wrong.

I agree with you.

He broke a minor draft law then it is an issue. But it is not an important issue. Because it is not.

I agree with you.

Just like Clinton have sex with a student (above 18), it is not an issue.

But Clinton lie. he have to admit it at last, and people forgive him.

Mark should learn from Clinton, stop his lie, own up, and people will forgive him.

In fact I will love him more.

I think the issue at present is that the court have not convicted him of anything at all, or even decided to take on the issue and make a case of it - so I do agree that if it was found that he had done something wrong, fine - admit it and go on to take his lumps - but if it was found that it is a drummed up case - then who will take the lumps then? The department that made the claim/accusation? Not really - its a "department" - it is faceless and impossible to "convict" of wrong-doing or of making a mistake...

The point needs to be very clearly defined - there is a claim of some discrepancy - nothing more as yet, because no determination had been made as to the veracity of it.

But overall I agree with the basis of your statement... IF the court decides to pursue it, and IF they then prove wrongdoing in an issue over 20 years ago, then Mark needs to make good. Fair enough.

[finnomick1]

I am shocked to learn that anyone in this country would allegedly present false documents to gain advantage whoever they are and whatever nationality. Guess the boys on Khao San Road have been working overtime ?

[rixalex]

You seem to forget that Thaksin has already been convicted and is a fugitive on the run.... well at least on the run from Thailand, it seems most countries with a sense of perspective of such matters welcome him with open arms...

I would suggest that countries that allow him access, do so, not because they have sat down, looked at his conviction, and decided that they know better than the Thai courts, but because he still has a significant amount of business and financial clout and influence, and as such, the easier path to take is, "yes, you can come in, providing you don't stir up too much trouble whilst you are here, and we'll leave your legal predicament as a matter between you and your home country". I don't personally think countries should be doing that, especially not when they refuse visa applicants without Thaksin's "standing" for matters as trivial as traffic offences, as it exposes terrible inconsistency in policy, but Thaksin, as the convicted criminal he is, being given preferential treatment in the way that he is, is hardly a new thing or something we have never seen before.

When UK authorities allowed Pinochet to enter the country, did that make you think the UK authorities had a much better sense of perspective on the man than Chile, or take it as proof that he was being wrongly and unfairly maligned?

One more thing, you imply that though other countries welcome him with open arms, Thailand does not. Well, as has been stated hundreds of times, Thailand's doors have never been closed to Thaksin. He is welcome back whenever he chooses to get on his private jet and make the journey of a short few hours from Dubai. That he does not, is entirely his choosing.

[nodomino]

If you are alive and reading this now, you have cheated. Somewhere along the line we all take the shortcut to where we want to go. Cheating is so common and widespread that it hardly merits a comment. If you want a brief run-down google test cheating. I recall reading a history of the important generals of WWII and was shocked to see that all of the top brass of the US military including Dwight Eisenhower, George Patton, and the then Chief of Staff George Marshall had conspired together to cheat on important tests regarding promotion during their careers. Can you even imagine how much cheating took place for George W. Bush to get an MBA from Yale? The man can barely read. It is pointless to get indignant over Mr. Abhisit's suppossed cheating. There is not a man-jack in this whole world who hasn't done the same and more likely, has done much, much worse.

[bigbamboo]

What does this have to do with anything? This is a red herring that occured almost 30 years ago, and that's assuming that it is indeed a fake document and not just a mistake on the copy.

But this whole thing is nothing but a smoke screen to deflect attention away from all the wrong doings going on with the PTP, Thaksin and the UDD.

Concentrate on the real issues.

The real issue is:

Did Mark's father, like many Rich Chinese / Vietnamese father bought a fake document on his behalf 30 years ago.

Please note that it was and still is, a common practice, and nothing to be shame about.

Have you ever wonder why most poor Thais keep picking up the RED ball while the rich Chinese keep picking up the BLACK ball; during the lottery?

You don't need a statistician to work out the improbability. No need to read the Hitch hikers guide to the galaxy too.

A crime is a crime, whoever commits it. What is this bs about its ok because everyone's doing it? I fail to comprehend the bizarre Chinese/Vietnamese insinuations, and the lottery? <deleted> is all that about? In all a worriesome, almost delusional, post. Can anyone make sense of it, please?

It's actually pretty accurate to anyone with any knowledge of Thai conscription. Get out a bit more and talk to some Thais, you'll find there is a trend whereby the rich kids get out of doing military service while the poor kids have to serve. The system is designed as lottery, a game of chance, much like the national betting version, which is easily rigged in favour of those who are willing (corrupt) and able (rich) to fix the outcome.

http://www.globalpos...ion-transgender

This article demonstrates the effects that these "lotteries" have on certain Thai citizens, and while focusing on katoeys, shows the horrors facing Thai families who can't afford to play the system, knowing that there's a chance their beloved son could be serving in the Deep South and end up being beheaded by insurgents. I understand that katoeys are now exempt...

http://www.thaivisa....y-hope-to-lose/

Here's a Thaivisa thread on the subject... some interesting quotes...

"Anybody caught trying to escape conscription faces three years in prison, followed by a stint in the army, Norapon said."

The worst case scenario is a posting in Thailand's deep south, where an insurgency waged by suspected Islamic militants has left more than 4,500 people dead over the past seven years. Military personnel are a particular target.

"I don't want to be a soldier. I'm afraid of being sent to the south," said another potential recruit, Chanasorn Sodpakwan.

Thai troops were also sent out onto the streets of Bangkok a year ago to crack down on mass opposition protests. More than 90 people died, mostly civilians, in a series of clashes between soldiers and demonstrators.

The hypocrisy of a man that has led the country, has sent young boys to their death in military service but cheated the system when it came to his own service, is obvious and is a serious breach of trust. If you want to stamp out the corruption in this country, start at the top, show the people that the elites have to abide by the same rules as the poor.

Well to be fair they did try to stamp out corruption at the very top but the guy concerned then ran away and has never come back. So what do you suggest they do next?

[Toltec]

I would not be surprised if this smear campaign is proven false later on. The disappearance of one documaent in one department can be checked by looking into other copies in other departments. Anyone powerful enough in the Defense Ministry can take out his document and shred it. Comparing Abhisit's with the rest of Pheu thai is way way out of there. Its like comparing english dregs with scottish highlanders...

[how241]

lets count the posts until someone tries to compare this matter with something totally irrelevant that thaksin has done to try and justify abhists actions. i am sure it will be on this page.

I'm also glad that FINALLY they got something on Abhisit.

pfffffffft

yeah right

More politics. More stories, hard to know the truth.

[Greer]

the elites have to abide by the same rules as the poor.

Does this apply to the elitest elite of them all - "the ex-PM on the Run"?

The implication is always that Abhisit and the Democrats are somehow "elite" and that the Shinawatra crew are not elite...whilst in reality I would have though that the position as probably the wealthiest man in Thailand would have actually made the (real) PTP "leader" and his family at the very top of the list of elites...

[venturalaw]

Up until now the discovery of his having submitted a forged document was the only thing lacking in his background to qualify him for success in the Thai political arena.

Unfortunately, he hasn't had much success. The Demcorat party under his leadership never won a mandate in an election. perhaps if the man had done his military service or had worked in the private sector and gained some experience, he might have had some success.

I didn't say that success was realized (although he was PM for a while), merely that as a Thai politician he now qualifies.

[Notstupid30]

I wish Thaivisa team would change there news source's sick and tired of the shit been put in the nation these days all childish news stories been printed and rerun's from other media sources ..

[ozziebloke]

If you are alive and reading this now, you have cheated. Somewhere along the line we all take the shortcut to where we want to go. Cheating is so common and widespread that it hardly merits a comment. If you want a brief run-down google test cheating. I recall reading a history of the important generals of WWII and was shocked to see that all of the top brass of the US military including Dwight Eisenhower, George Patton, and the then Chief of Staff George Marshall had conspired together to cheat on important tests regarding promotion during their careers. Can you even imagine how much cheating took place for George W. Bush to get an MBA from Yale? The man can barely read. It is pointless to get indignant over Mr. Abhisit's suppossed cheating. There is not a man-jack in this whole world who hasn't done the same and more likely, has done much, much worse.

Big call to say everyone in the world has cheated at some stage in life to get ahead ! I for one do not remember ever cheating to get anything and thats not saying that i am an angel! and maybe it would be more correct for you to say that many of power or influance have cheated in one way or another because maybe that is how they maybe have gotten to where they are ?

[metisdead]

Some inappropriate and vulgar posts have been removed.

[Reasonableman]

I wish Thaivisa team would change there news source's sick and tired of the shit been put in the nation these days all childish news stories been printed and rerun's from other media sources ..

No-one's twisting your arm to stay.

[lomatopo]

Can you even imagine how much cheating took place for George W. Bush to get an MBA from Yale?

I imagine none. He received an MBA from Harvard Business School. Yes, he does have a B.A. from Yale University.

[OzMick]

Can those making vacuous claims re draft dodging please re-read the OP. The time spent as a lecturer at the military college qualifies as his national service. The argument is about a date discrepancy in his study deferment.

AFAIK the study deferment is only for 2 years. Given his qualifications, it would seem most likely that they took longer to achieve.

Unable to find whether or not the deferment is extendable, but quite likely a family of influence could arrange this. What is NOT arguable is that after he completed his studies, he then carried out his national service commitment.

[Ferangled]

Well to be fair they did try to stamp out corruption at the very top but the guy concerned then ran away and has never come back. So what do you suggest they do next?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If Abhisit is found to have dodged the draft, treat him the same as every other Thai national caught and prosecuted for the same - 3 years inside and then a stint in the deep south.... of course whether or not Abhist would stay to serve his sentence or turn fugitive is anyone's guess...

[Notstupid30]

I wish Thaivisa team would change there news source's sick and tired of the shit been put in the nation these days all childish news stories been printed and rerun's from other media sources ..

No-one's twisting your arm to stay.

Very true .. but i'm sure i'm not the only one feels the news can be a bit childish at times and if we all just got up and left there will be no Thaivisa hey and should take it to a poll to see what the users want ..

Edited July 21, 2012 by Notstupid30

[GiHadOrange]

the elites have to abide by the same rules as the poor.

Does this apply to the elitest elite of them all - "the ex-PM on the Run"?

The implication is always that Abhisit and the Democrats are somehow "elite" and that the Shinawatra crew are not elite...whilst in reality I would have though that the position as probably the wealthiest man in Thailand would have actually made the (real) PTP "leader" and his family at the very top of the list of elites...

Its an old money - new money issue. Having truck loads of new money doesn't bring you automatically into the old money power circles.

On the Thaksin side there are also people with a lot of wealth but not necessary with a lot of political influence /power passed on since generations.

[whybother]

<snip>

Before the elections I saw a message on this website that we could not say what we thought about the government, it would be deleted and thaivisa. com would have problems.... Nice yellow government we had! And I think that was also Abhisit......

BS

[GiHadOrange]

Well to be fair they did try to stamp out corruption at the very top but the guy concerned then ran away and has never come back. So what do you suggest they do next?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If Abhisit is found to have dodged the draft, treat him the same as every other Thai national caught and prosecuted for the same - 3 years inside and then a stint in the deep south.... of course whether or not Abhist would stay to serve his sentence or turn fugitive is anyone's guess...

Its probably 3 years and/or a fine of 500 Baht or so.

[Alexpho]

Who cares about this badly written article. Just don't close down the Nana area. I'll be there in 6 weeks.

[Notstupid30]

Fair too much BS from this new source full stop also badly written with any thought on the matter to any news from around the world including Thailand in all truth unsure what the agreement Thaivisa have with the news sources but should be changed in all truth .. I’m not saying anything more on this matter as I’m not the forum owner but if it was me I would change the news source and be a bit more relaxed on what people can say on any of the news …

[Sharp]

ahhh who cares?

it doesn't matter to people on here what golden boy abhisit has ever done.

it makes no difference, he's still the shining example of honesty and integrity and all that's right with thai politics... amirite guys, who's with me?

high five.

Spot on

Sent from my GT-N7000B using Thaivisa Connect App

[Reasonableman]

I have a strong dislike for people who enter politics who are not willing to show some moral backbone.

I don't like leaders who evade national service. They may be called upon to send young men and women in harms way.

I don't like leaders who evade taxes. They may be responsible for laws that tax others.

Omg, so who among the current crop DO you like? ;-)

I know! Stop addressing the real issue with logic. OMg!

Who in the current line-up has the admirable moral backbone of which we speak? Please name some names. Who are our paragons of virtue, steering the ship of state through these rough seas?

Still waiting for any response. Surely it can't be a complete desert???

[rubl]

As this alleged / possible case against k. Abhisit and/or others who might have 'falsified' a document, is from 1986 or 1988 I wonder what the term of limitation is on such offences. 1988 is about 24 years ago I think. AS I don't know the answer I'll suspend talking about character assassination for the moment

[metisdead]

A number of off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[rubl]

Fair too much BS from this new source full stop also badly written with any thought on the matter to any news from around the world including Thailand in all truth unsure what the agreement Thaivisa have with the news sources but should be changed in all truth .. I’m not saying anything more on this matter as I’m not the forum owner but if it was me I would change the news source and be a bit more relaxed on what people can say on any of the news …

You might consider switching forums, like one more oriented to BP, or some 'free for all' forums where there is no need to restrict oneself to what others tell you is within bounds

[arrowsdawdle]

As this alleged / possible case against k. Abhisit and/or others who might have 'falsified' a document, is from 1986 or 1988 I wonder what the term of limitation is on such offences. 1988 is about 24 years ago I think. AS I don't know the answer I'll suspend talking about character assassination for the moment

So, if a statute of limitations makes it difficult to prosecute him it is fine by you that he lied?