Former Thai Parliament President Ukrit: Give Amnesty To Coup-Makers, Political Prisoners

[phiphidon]

If everyone is given an amnesty where is the deterent (i.e. punishment) to prevent this happening again ten, fifteen years down the road? A simple solution which reflects the simplicity of the voting people.

I think with artcicle 291 being changed PTP long term aim is to have taksin to return as presdient of a republic. Ahh well good luck to them and Thailand I will have no sympathy for them as they wallow in their self pity when it all goes tits up.

If you read Section 291 properly you will notice, as I have pointed out umpteen times, there is a provision to stop such a ridiculous idea as the supposed "long term aim is to have taksin to return as presdient of a republic"(sic):

A motion for amendment which has the effect of changing the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of State or changing the form of State shall be prohibited;...............

...........................(7) after the resolution has been passed in accordance with the above rules and procedure, the draft Constitution Amendment shall be presented to the King, and the provisions of section 150 and section 151 shall apply mutatis mutandis.

Not totally correct. It's more short term the goal of Pres. Thaksin is not attainable. That's why we now will go into an article by article rewrite to short term brake down some awkward and restricting provisions, like Constitutional Count, Election Committee (red or (by Jove) yellow carding honest MPs, imagine!) and the like. Following we democratically issue an amnesty all want and get k. Thaksin back to save us. From there on our dear leader will be able to more directly and openly think to let us act appropriately. IMHO of course. Sorry can't quote the interesting remarks on this the other newspaper has today, but you can always ask Dept. PM Pol. Captain Chalerm who's in the know

Didn't read anything about an amnesty being proposed in the other paper, just a rumour I expect, like getting shot in the chest........

Oh and by the way, if the CC hadn't overshot its remit and interfered with the parliamentary process a CDA would have had the chance to write a new constitution as opposed to parliament going into "an article by article rewrite" - they still could but for the CCs' stance which results in the expense of two referendums being prohibitive.

Edited July 25, 2012 by phiphidon

[rubl]

Not totally correct. It's more short term the goal of Pres. Thaksin is not attainable. That's why we now will go into an article by article rewrite to short term brake down some awkward and restricting provisions, like Constitutional Count, Election Committee (red or (by Jove) yellow carding honest MPs, imagine!) and the like. Following we democratically issue an amnesty all want and get k. Thaksin back to save us. From there on our dear leader will be able to more directly and openly think to let us act appropriately. IMHO of course. Sorry can't quote the interesting remarks on this the other newspaper has today, but you can always ask Dept. PM Pol. Captain Chalerm who's in the know

Didn't read anything about an amnesty being proposed in the other paper, just a rumour I expect, like getting shot in the chest........

Correct, the article by article rewrite is discussed there. The amnesty will have to wait till after that, although preparation are under way as this topic suggests. move over to

As for rumours, move to yet another thread, or may I just refer to rumours about '169 dead red-shirts'?

[Reasonableman]

Good work Reasonable man.

Some VERY interesting stuff

Ditto, good research

He hasn't researched anything. He's offered no comment on the sections. What he has done is C & P'd a few sections from the unofficial english translation of the Thai Constitution, the link for which (and certain sections therof) has been made available numerous times in this forum.

What's the problem? It is merely an objective resource for everyone's information, and which is directly related to the OP. Isn't everyone entitled to know what they are discussing?

[billd766]

Good work Reasonable man.

Some VERY interesting stuff

Ditto, good research

He hasn't researched anything. He's offered no comment on the sections. What he has done is C & P'd a few sections from the unofficial english translation of the Thai Constitution, the link for which (and certain sections therof) has been made available numerous times in this forum.

Obviously you have done deep research on the comments but I cannot see your comments on this anywhere, unless you have done absolutely nothing as usual.

[ramrod711]

Rewriting the entire 2007 Constitution would result in the automatic cancellation of Article 309, which is the provision protecting the 2006 coup-makers. Therefore, amnesty should be given to them and to political prisoners, while the criminal justice process should go on, he said.

Give amnesty to nobody. If the army is guilty of a coup, send the guilty to jail. If red shirts are guilty of inciting violence and arson, send them to jail. How does it make sense to say that Article 309 has to be adhered to. Go back to the previous constitution and let the chips fall where they may.

[BrianCR]

"saying the amendment of the 2007 Constitution is necessary as the charter was not linked to the people, who are the holders of political power."

I don't understand that?

Does USA or Germany amend their constitution because it is not linked to the holders of political power?

In my opinion the holder of political power only need to obey it......no need for any links.

The 2007 Constitution wouldn't exist in Western countries as they are not subject to the annual military coup very graciously arranged in Thailand for the enjoyment and amusement of developed countries!

[GentlemanJim]

"saying the amendment of the 2007 Constitution is necessary as the charter was not linked to the people, who are the holders of political power."

I don't understand that?

Does USA or Germany amend their constitution because it is not linked to the holders of political power?

In my opinion the holder of political power only need to obey it......no need for any links.

The 2007 Constitution wouldn't exist in Western countries as they are not subject to the annual military coup very graciously arranged in Thailand for the enjoyment and amusement of developed countries!

'annual'?

[h90]

"saying the amendment of the 2007 Constitution is necessary as the charter was not linked to the people, who are the holders of political power."

I don't understand that?

Does USA or Germany amend their constitution because it is not linked to the holders of political power?

In my opinion the holder of political power only need to obey it......no need for any links.

The 2007 Constitution wouldn't exist in Western countries as they are not subject to the annual military coup very graciously arranged in Thailand for the enjoyment and amusement of developed countries!

Just read about some constitutions and some also come from a strange situation.....Specially we European, if we wouldn't have changed our countries we would still be absolute Monarchies.

I don't understand why Thailand still makes so faulty constitutions....the 2007 has some serious mistakes. It would be so easy to just copy a good constitution from a other country.

[h90]

"saying the amendment of the 2007 Constitution is necessary as the charter was not linked to the people, who are the holders of political power."

I don't understand that?

Does USA or Germany amend their constitution because it is not linked to the holders of political power?

In my opinion the holder of political power only need to obey it......no need for any links.

The 2007 Constitution wouldn't exist in Western countries as they are not subject to the annual military coup very graciously arranged in Thailand for the enjoyment and amusement of developed countries!

'annual'?

yes whatever service you order in Thailand, always they are unreliable and late.....

[waza]

interesting.

[binjalin]

Good work Reasonable man.

Some VERY interesting stuff

Ditto, good research

He hasn't researched anything. He's offered no comment on the sections. What he has done is C & P'd a few sections from the unofficial english translation of the Thai Constitution, the link for which (and certain sections therof) has been made available numerous times in this forum.

What's the problem? It is merely an objective resource for everyone's information, and which is directly related to the OP. Isn't everyone entitled to know what they are discussing?

cut 'n' paste is your only argument now? sad...

[binjalin]

"saying the amendment of the 2007 Constitution is necessary as the charter was not linked to the people, who are the holders of political power."

I don't understand that?

Does USA or Germany amend their constitution because it is not linked to the holders of political power?

In my opinion the holder of political power only need to obey it......no need for any links.

The 2007 Constitution wouldn't exist in Western countries as they are not subject to the annual military coup very graciously arranged in Thailand for the enjoyment and amusement of developed countries!

exactly! not cut 'n' pasting is going to get round the fundamentals

[phiphidon]

Not totally correct. It's more short term the goal of Pres. Thaksin is not attainable. That's why we now will go into an article by article rewrite to short term brake down some awkward and restricting provisions, like Constitutional Count, Election Committee (red or (by Jove) yellow carding honest MPs, imagine!) and the like. Following we democratically issue an amnesty all want and get k. Thaksin back to save us. From there on our dear leader will be able to more directly and openly think to let us act appropriately. IMHO of course. Sorry can't quote the interesting remarks on this the other newspaper has today, but you can always ask Dept. PM Pol. Captain Chalerm who's in the know

Didn't read anything about an amnesty being proposed in the other paper, just a rumour I expect, like getting shot in the chest........

Correct, the article by article rewrite is discussed there. The amnesty will have to wait till after that, although preparation are under way as this topic suggests. move over to

http://www.thaivisa....ical-prisoners/

As for rumours, move to yet another thread, or may I just refer to rumours about '169 dead red-shirts'?

Remember, rubl. truth is your friend, not rumours.....................

[Dap]

Thailand has political prisoners? Really?

Or persons who committed criminal acts and claim that prosecution is politically based?

Is that a trick question?

[Dap]

Good work Reasonable man.

Some VERY interesting stuff

Ditto, good research

He hasn't researched anything. He's offered no comment on the sections. What he has done is C & P'd a few sections from the unofficial english translation of the Thai Constitution, the link for which (and certain sections therof) has been made available numerous times in this forum.

He did a great job of isolating information for the rest of us that are obviously not as well researched as yourself. Credit where credit is due.

[rubl]

Not totally correct. It's more short term the goal of Pres. Thaksin is not attainable. That's why we now will go into an article by article rewrite to short term brake down some awkward and restricting provisions, like Constitutional Count, Election Committee (red or (by Jove) yellow carding honest MPs, imagine!) and the like. Following we democratically issue an amnesty all want and get k. Thaksin back to save us. From there on our dear leader will be able to more directly and openly think to let us act appropriately. IMHO of course. Sorry can't quote the interesting remarks on this the other newspaper has today, but you can always ask Dept. PM Pol. Captain Chalerm who's in the know

Didn't read anything about an amnesty being proposed in the other paper, just a rumour I expect, like getting shot in the chest........

Correct, the article by article rewrite is discussed there. The amnesty will have to wait till after that, although preparation are under way as this topic suggests. move over to

http://www.thaivisa....ical-prisoners/

As for rumours, move to yet another thread, or may I just refer to rumours about '169 dead red-shirts'?

Remember, rubl. truth is your friend, not rumours.....................

I know, but you brought up the rumour bit. So do you know, or does anything rumour you like is admissible?

[Reasonableman]

I heard a rumor that rumors from "PPD's Anthology of Selected Sanctioned Rumors" have exclusive rights to be used on TV. Is that true??

Edited July 25, 2012 by Reasonableman

[Moruya]

Thailand has political prisoners? Really?

<snip

Any opinions on it?

There is no internationally recognised definition of a 'Political Prisoner', A de facto defintion is provided by the human rights organisation Amnesty International: "Any prisoner whose case has a significant political element: whether the motivation of the prisoner's acts, the acts themselves, or the motivation of the authorities."

So who are Thailand's political prisoners? As far as Thaksin is concerned all of the crimes and alleged crimes he committed of a financial nature were in no way politically motivated. They were motivated by self interest and greed. As for the 2500 extra judicial killings, well they were certainly ordered by a man who was a politician, but an intent or indeed the act, of hurting or killing innocent civilians can in no way be considered to be covered under a 'political crime', it is a crime, plain and simple. Thaksin is an A -list criminal,, who's acts can in no way be classed as political crimes. There can be/should be no amnesty for Thaksin, or Jatuporn, or other red leaders who authorised the invasion of a hospital, ordered the burning of Bangkok etc etc. The rest I don't care about.

why do you go straight to thaksin? he didn't even enter my head....

my opinion? was that it is a laughable suggestion.

he lives an breaths in your head.

[Moruya]

Not totally correct. It's more short term the goal of Pres. Thaksin is not attainable. That's why we now will go into an article by article rewrite to short term brake down some awkward and restricting provisions, like Constitutional Count, Election Committee (red or (by Jove) yellow carding honest MPs, imagine!) and the like. Following we democratically issue an amnesty all want and get k. Thaksin back to save us. From there on our dear leader will be able to more directly and openly think to let us act appropriately. IMHO of course. Sorry can't quote the interesting remarks on this the other newspaper has today, but you can always ask Dept. PM Pol. Captain Chalerm who's in the know

Didn't read anything about an amnesty being proposed in the other paper, just a rumour I expect, like getting shot in the chest........

Correct, the article by article rewrite is discussed there. The amnesty will have to wait till after that, although preparation are under way as this topic suggests. move over to

As for rumours, move to yet another thread, or may I just refer to rumours about '169 dead red-shirts'?

The boxes of dust that the Muppet Chalerm guided all and sundry to witness? Turned out to be displaced bodies from decades ago?

[Moruya]

Thailand has political prisoners? Really?

Or persons who committed criminal acts and claim that prosecution is politically based?

Is that a trick question?

only to the uninitiated

[nurofiend]

why do you go straight to thaksin? he didn't even enter my head....

my opinion? was that it is a laughable suggestion.

he lives an breaths in your head.

this is all you seem to do moruya...

any reply i see from you to me are constant one liner digs that are completely unfounded.

sad, sad, sad, sad, sad.

you now have a firm place in my 'not worth my time' list.

[Moruya]

why do you go straight to thaksin? he didn't even enter my head....

my opinion? was that it is a laughable suggestion.

he lives an breaths in your head.

this is all you seem to do moruya...

any reply i see from you to me are constant one liner digs that are completely unfounded.

sad, sad, sad, sad, sad.

you now have a firm place in my 'not worth my time' list.

I feel that I have somehow won the lottery and received a Nobel prize in the same minute

[GentlemanJim]

why do you go straight to thaksin? he didn't even enter my head....

my opinion? was that it is a laughable suggestion.

he lives an breaths in your head.

this is all you seem to do moruya...

any reply i see from you to me are constant one liner digs that are completely unfounded.

sad, sad, sad, sad, sad.

you now have a firm place in my 'not worth my time' list.

Well it seems that at 21.58 he was worth your time. Make your mind up.

[nurofiend]

why do you go straight to thaksin? he didn't even enter my head....

my opinion? was that it is a laughable suggestion.

he lives an breaths in your head.

this is all you seem to do moruya...

any reply i see from you to me are constant one liner digs that are completely unfounded.

sad, sad, sad, sad, sad.

you now have a firm place in my 'not worth my time' list.

Well it seems that at 21.58 he was worth your time. Make your mind up.

you really don't understand? i mean really?

or are you just taking a leaf out of moruya's posting style book?

rhetorical questions btw,

i have no interest in having a continued discussion about this, interesting as it seems to be to you and your buddies.

Edited July 25, 2012 by nurofiend

[binjalin]

why do you go straight to thaksin? he didn't even enter my head....

my opinion? was that it is a laughable suggestion.

he lives an breaths in your head.

this is all you seem to do moruya...

any reply i see from you to me are constant one liner digs that are completely unfounded.

sad, sad, sad, sad, sad.

you now have a firm place in my 'not worth my time' list.

'lives and breathes in your head'??? am i missing something?

Edited July 25, 2012 by binjalin

[GentlemanJim]

he lives an breaths in your head.

this is all you seem to do moruya...

any reply i see from you to me are constant one liner digs that are completely unfounded.

sad, sad, sad, sad, sad.

you now have a firm place in my 'not worth my time' list.

Well it seems that at 21.58 he was worth your time. Make your mind up.

you really don't understand? i mean really?

or are you just taking a leaf out of moruya's posting style book?

rhetorical questions btw,

i have no interest in having a continued discussion about this, interesting as it seems to be to you and your buddies.

There you go again! You do have an interest in it because you just discussed it ...again! A tip, if you really find there is nothing you really want to say...then don't say it. Simples.

[nurofiend]

this is all you seem to do moruya...

any reply i see from you to me are constant one liner digs that are completely unfounded.

sad, sad, sad, sad, sad.

you now have a firm place in my 'not worth my time' list.

Well it seems that at 21.58 he was worth your time. Make your mind up.

you really don't understand? i mean really?

or are you just taking a leaf out of moruya's posting style book?

rhetorical questions btw,

i have no interest in having a continued discussion about this, interesting as it seems to be to you and your buddies.

There you go again! You do have an interest in it because you just discussed it ...again! A tip, if you really find there is nothing you really want to say...then don't say it. Simples.

no jim there you go again

i said i have no interest in continued discussion about this, meaning moving forward.

originally to moruya i said "you now have a firm place in my 'not worth my time' list." which obviously meant from now on.

the only time you would be correct in saying i have gone back on my word would be with this post that i am making now for actually continuing this 'discussion', but i just had to help you see the error of your pointless 'jumping in' ways and how you were actually wrong twice in a row.

it all just seems petty to me, but i guess i have to accept that some people are just like that.

bye.

[nurofiend]

'lives and breathes in your head'??? am i missing something?

nope, unfortunately you're not missing a thing.

it was in fact what you probably think it was... ie. a load of dribbling nonsense.

Edited July 25, 2012 by nurofiend

[binjalin]

didn't see much complaining about reconciliation commissions in South Africa where most 'terrorists' 'got off'. There has to be some form of reconciliation commission here following along the same lines or we will never move forward.

today's 'terrorist' is often tomorrow's 'statesman'

think 'Northern Ireland' Martin McGuiness and Gerry Adams etc. etc. and the list goes on and on

[chotthee]

didn't see much complaining about reconciliation commissions in South Africa where most 'terrorists' 'got off'. There has to be some form of reconciliation commission here following along the same lines or we will never move forward.

today's 'terrorist' is often tomorrow's 'statesman'

think 'Northern Ireland' Martin McGuiness and Gerry Adams etc. etc. and the list goes on and on

Khun Nelson M. is not a terrorist. He never was.