Bangkok Traffic Volunteer Charged With Assault

[Nisa]

The guy who kicked the bike over should be given a medal along with anyone who does this to the motorbike drivers that ride on sidewalks.

Yes, unprovoked attacks of minors should be applauded...

Having a bad day Nisa?

I missed the part about him being a minor. So in addition to fleeing from police and showing a complete lack of concern for safety and the law, he shouldn't have even been driving the bike anyway. I 100% believe minors should be treated differently but don't believe anyone should be concerned with checking IDs before using force to stop somebody fleeing from the police.

Consequences -- when illegal and reckless motorbike riders realize their actions will cause THEM harm then they will stop endangering other innocent people such as pedestrians. I realize we are in Thailand but please don't tell me you would be surprised to hear about somebody shoving a biker over riding on the sidewalk flying by their kids or that police would not use force to stop a fleeing biker including knocking them off the bike. It is not like these people were going highway speeds ... the guy on foot caught up to the bike.

In my mind by the way, people who flee from police are provoking a response and when that common sense tells people may result in injury.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Nisa

[Kilgore Trout]

Now the problem is how are they supposed to stop the critters if they're going to be prosecuted for a kick stop........who is the freakin do gooder driving around with a video cam rolling in his windshield anyway?

Cheers Chinook. At least someone is looking at it from the other side. Still don't think the guy did wrong, he was just doing his job.

Don't think even a Thai court would see it that way. Remember, this guy is NOT a policeman. According to the law it is assault and battery, pure and simple.

Read in another paper that the guy strenuously denies being a police volunteer, again adding to the assault charge, if true.

[Ferangled]

The guy who kicked the bike over should be given a medal along with anyone who does this to the motorbike drivers that ride on sidewalks.

Yes, unprovoked attacks of minors should be applauded...

Having a bad day Nisa?

I missed the part about him being a minor. So in addition to fleeing from police and showing a complete lack of concern for safety and the law, he shouldn't have even been driving the bike anyway. I 100% believe minors should be treated differently but don't believe anyone should be concerned with checking IDs before using force to stop somebody fleeing from the police.

He was fleeing from police? Really? Where did you get this information? It didn't even appear to be a roadblock/ checkpoint from the video and the only indication I could see that they wished them to stop was when he decided to assault them...

Incidentally you may which to brush up on who is considered a minor in Thailand http://www.searo.who.int/LinkFiles/Meetings_Understanding_issues.pdf

They certainly appeared to be below 20 years of age to me and you'll see by the legal definition of a minor in Thailand that this status doesn't preclude the riding of motorcycles or cars

[Nisa]

But is the issue that he kicked someone off their bike, or that he did it whilst not being a policeman?

Surely, the police have the right to prevent you leaving a checkpoint? In which case, as a volunteer, he is entitled to act like a copper would in the same circumstances?

Yea, I am kind of baffled and would take it a step further in thinking that any citizen could have tried to stop a guy fleeing from police. However, you do open yourself up to the potential of having problems when you use force, especially here where police are limited themselves in the force they can legally use.

[Reasonableman]

The guy who kicked the bike over should be given a medal along with anyone who does this to the motorbike drivers that ride on sidewalks.

Were they driving on the footpath?

Did I say they were? This guy was fleeing police.

Well, you did say "motorbike drivers that ride on sidewalks", so it could be inferred you were saying that. It is not a criticism, just a request for clarification, since I was not aware they were riding on the footpath/sidewalk.

[Ferangled]

But is the issue that he kicked someone off their bike, or that he did it whilst not being a policeman?

Surely, the police have the right to prevent you leaving a checkpoint? In which case, as a volunteer, he is entitled to act like a copper would in the same circumstances?

Yea, I am kind of baffled and would take it a step further in thinking that any citizen could have tried to stop a guy fleeing from police. However, you do open yourself up to the potential of having problems when you use force, especially here where police are limited themselves in the force they can legally use.

Again this claim that they were "fleeing from police", the police didn't seem the least bit interested in them until after their "volunteer" assaulted them... I wonder was it the same policeman in the video that then took their "volunteer" into custody to charge him... clearly they view this incident slightly differently to you!

[drdoom6996]

Prohibit police at check points from taking bribes dream on that man is on another planet if he thinks that will stop!!!!!

How will the BIB make their money, especially in tourist areas where tourists are singled out because they CAN pay the bribe money?

[Nisa]

But is the issue that he kicked someone off their bike, or that he did it whilst not being a policeman?

Surely, the police have the right to prevent you leaving a checkpoint? In which case, as a volunteer, he is entitled to act like a copper would in the same circumstances?

Yea, I am kind of baffled and would take it a step further in thinking that any citizen could have tried to stop a guy fleeing from police. However, you do open yourself up to the potential of having problems when you use force, especially here where police are limited themselves in the force they can legally use.

Again this claim that they were "fleeing from police", the police didn't seem the least bit interested in them until after their "volunteer" assaulted them... I wonder was it the same policeman in the video that then took their "volunteer" into custody to charge him... clearly they view this incident slightly differently to you!

When a policeman tells you to stop and you don;t -- you are fleeing from the police. It really isn't debatable unless you just are looking to excuse such behavior or argue senselessly. If the news account is wrong and this driver didn't refuse to stop at a checkpoint then that would be a different issue. As for people having a different opinion than me or anyone else, that is not surprising.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Nisa

[Thai at Heart]

The other paper says he was infuriated at continual high levels of noise caused by the bikes.

I can sympathise.

[drdoom6996]

Since he was volunteering at a police checkpoint, aren't the police themselves in some way responsible for making sure he conducts himself appropriately?

IMHO the Tourist Volunteers in my area are narccists at best. They call them "Tourist Police" here. They are just another gang of thugs.

[drdoom6996]

Now the problem is how are they supposed to stop the critters if they're going to be prosecuted for a kick stop........who is the freakin do gooder driving around with a video cam rolling in his windshield anyway?

Well, it would be a start if the coppers only stopped people actually doing something wrong. If I have seen dozens of people with no lights, no helmets, no insurance rounded up, they also have an extremely annoying habit of grabbing everyone irrespective, just for a little donation of course.

+1

[drdoom6996]

Am I reading this wrong or what? If it was a police checkpoint, then it is there for a reason. If it is acceptable to let people pass through the checkpoint if that is their want, without being checked then what is the point of having it there in the first place?

I see no problem with what the volunteer did in this instance; he was preventing someone crashing the checkpoint. It is better being kicked off a bike than ending up with half a dozen rounds in your back!

What if, and this is pure speculation, the rider or passenger were carrying weapons or drugs? The same volunteer would be treated as an outstanding officer instead of being in the position now of facing disciplinary action for doing his job because of public opinion.

Just sayin' Look at the picture from both sides.....................

How about they set up a good roadblock.. marked and such and make sure it cant be passed. Do it a legal way. Check cars too when they are at it. Not go for motorcycles only like they almost always do because they have no status or protection.

Agree robblok, there is that; I nearly didn't comment earlier because it does give people the excuse to crash the one in the video because it isn't properly defined and the motorcyclist has the excuse that he didn't see it for what it was.

Also agree with the car checks as well, including foreigners; if you are going to do it, do it properly! Funny, I have noticed over the last couple of years that the police here (Phitsanulok) have been doing just that. It seems that the "fear" of seeing a white face when the window has been wound down has diminished.

But, back to the OP; I still don't think the police guy was in the wrong in that he was preventing someone crashing the VCP.

INCLUDING FOREIGNERS? They single out foreigners.

[chantsurfer]

Arnt Police checkpoints at night meant to be identified by a lite triangle?

[givenall]

He probably get away with slap of his wrist.

of course you would not hear anything at all if it was a real police

[Ferangled]

But is the issue that he kicked someone off their bike, or that he did it whilst not being a policeman?

Surely, the police have the right to prevent you leaving a checkpoint? In which case, as a volunteer, he is entitled to act like a copper would in the same circumstances?

Yea, I am kind of baffled and would take it a step further in thinking that any citizen could have tried to stop a guy fleeing from police. However, you do open yourself up to the potential of having problems when you use force, especially here where police are limited themselves in the force they can legally use.

Again this claim that they were "fleeing from police", the police didn't seem the least bit interested in them until after their "volunteer" assaulted them... I wonder was it the same policeman in the video that then took their "volunteer" into custody to charge him... clearly they view this incident slightly differently to you!

When a policeman tells you to stop and you don;t -- you are fleeing from the police. It really isn't debatable unless you just are looking to excuse such behavior or argue senselessly.

Who told them to stop? Have you watched the video Nisa? The guy jumped in front of one bike, then kicked the next one over, the real police were busy questioning others that they'd stopped. Evidently he'd decided they were guilty of being young and riding a motorbike... I note that the rider was even wearing his helmet, on what grounds was this non policeman attempting to detain them?

I notice you failed to respond to the fact that they were minors or that your idea of what constitutes a minor in Thailand is incorrect... who exactly is arguing senselessly?

You seem to be displaying a complete lack of "sense" in commenting as you are on this topic. The police are pressing charges against the man but you feel the need to defend the assault... that seems senseless to me. Are you suggesting that the police are acting incorrectly here? Surely not...

I recall a similar attitude to excessive violence in another thread on TV, where somehow you argued the assault of a paying customer was warranted by his verbal reaction...

[sdoc]

Thank you Ferangled my thoughts exactly Nisa don't know we're your from but that's not alright behavior from a volunteer the guy was out with his bird he's not some hardened criminal

Sent from my LT26i using Thaivisa Connect App

[JonnyF]

I think a lot of people are getting fed up with the number of police shakedowns at the moment. I got stopped and asked for money 3 times in 45 minutes on Sunday morning while riding a fully legal bike with full face helmet. Can you imagine if 200 baht was close to your total daily wage? I'm not surprised people are refusing to stop, it's like stopping to allow someone to rob you.

[Gonzo the Face]

Maybe I missed something and no one else has mentioned it.....But who is it that was doing the filming???? Who is riding along at this time of night with a video camera filming the lefts and right turns along a back street. Then the victim passes and gets kicked over...... Was this some sort of set up or was someone just hoping to get a clip of some interesting things.....

Reeks to me as perhaps someone had been given a warning at some earlier time and had set up a videoing sequence to perhaps catch a wrong deed or something...

My question then is why the videoing and who did it for whatever reason.

G

[robblok]

Maybe I missed something and no one else has mentioned it.....But who is it that was doing the filming???? Who is riding along at this time of night with a video camera filming the lefts and right turns along a back street. Then the victim passes and gets kicked over...... Was this some sort of set up or was someone just hoping to get a clip of some interesting things.....

Reeks to me as perhaps someone had been given a warning at some earlier time and had set up a videoing sequence to perhaps catch a wrong deed or something...

My question then is why the videoing and who did it for whatever reason.

G

Just a dash cam in a car probably.

[SOTIRIOS]

...evasive action would suggest 'something to hide'.....or....'guilty of something'.......

[chrisinth]

Now the problem is how are they supposed to stop the critters if they're going to be prosecuted for a kick stop........who is the freakin do gooder driving around with a video cam rolling in his windshield anyway?

Cheers Chinook. At least someone is looking at it from the other side. Still don't think the guy did wrong, he was just doing his job.

Don't think even a Thai court would see it that way. Remember, this guy is NOT a policeman. According to the law it is assault and battery, pure and simple.

Read in another paper that the guy strenuously denies being a police volunteer, again adding to the assault charge, if true.

I wonder what the job description of a police volunteer would be? Manning a VCP. If he holds no powers then why would he be there? At 35y.o. I doubt he would just be wetting the coffee.

Edit: The line about him manning a VCP was from the mentioned fact in the OP:

"Police have filed charges against a traffic volunteer who was caught in an Internet video clip kicking another person's motorbike after it failed to stop at a checkpoint in Bangkok's Bang Kho Laem district"

Edited July 27, 2012 by chrisinth

[Ferangled]

...evasive action would suggest 'something to hide'.....or....'guilty of something'.......

What a strange comment. In relation to this case I would suggest perhaps he didn't recognise the authority of a random guy on the street detaining him or possibly wished to avoid yet another in a long line of shake downs by the Bib...

Of course the facts of the case would indicate that he had nothing to hide and was guilty of nothing other than being assaulted. These two points should help you decider the evidence here and come up with a relevant conclusion...

1. Has the victim been detained for questioning or charged with anything?

2. Has the man that kicked the young man and his girlfriend been detained and charged with anything?

You seem to forget that police were on the scene and witnessed the events. Surely if they felt there was anything remotely possible to pin on the young man they would have done? I wonder how much bearing the independent filming of the case has on this and it's outcome? I'd be willing to bet the headline would read a little differently if no-one other than the police were on the scene...

And generally speaking of course evasive action could equally suggest you were trying to avoid an accident, a projectile or physical assault...

[NHJ]

The driver trying to flee the check point deserved what happenned to him, Mad Ali's only mistake is that being a volunteer he can't act like a police man and stop someone from running away.

[Nisa]

I think a lot of people are getting fed up with the number of police shakedowns at the moment. I got stopped and asked for money 3 times in 45 minutes on Sunday morning while riding a fully legal bike with full face helmet. Can you imagine if 200 baht was close to your total daily wage? I'm not surprised people are refusing to stop, it's like stopping to allow someone to rob you.

You must have "sucker" written across your helmet if you are making payments at check points 3x in 45-minutes and you are not in violation of any laws.

[Ferangled]

I think a lot of people are getting fed up with the number of police shakedowns at the moment. I got stopped and asked for money 3 times in 45 minutes on Sunday morning while riding a fully legal bike with full face helmet. Can you imagine if 200 baht was close to your total daily wage? I'm not surprised people are refusing to stop, it's like stopping to allow someone to rob you.

You must have "sucker" written across your helmet if you are making payments at check points 3x in 45-minutes and you are not in violation of any laws.

Yes Nisa, clearly the fault lies with the individual suffering extortion at the hands of the police and not the police themselves...

[Baerboxer]

Am I reading this wrong or what? If it was a police checkpoint, then it is there for a reason. If it is acceptable to let people pass through the checkpoint if that is their want, without being checked then what is the point of having it there in the first place?

I see no problem with what the volunteer did in this instance; he was preventing someone crashing the checkpoint. It is better being kicked off a bike than ending up with half a dozen rounds in your back!

What if, and this is pure speculation, the rider or passenger were carrying weapons or drugs? The same volunteer would be treated as an outstanding officer instead of being in the position now of facing disciplinary action for doing his job because of public opinion.

Just sayin' Look at the picture from both sides.....................

What if.. What if.... Have a look at the video and this clown's actions again. You think kicking kids off a motorbike when all they are doing is probably trying to avoid a police shakedown is appropriate do you. Maybe he should have kicked them a few times too?

How many 'civilised" countries do you know that would tolerate this sort of behaviour from a "police volunteer" ?

It's good to see action being taken and hopefully he won't be allowed to "volunteer' again.

[chrisinth]

...evasive action would suggest 'something to hide'.....or....'guilty of something'.......

What a strange comment. In relation to this case I would suggest perhaps he didn't recognise the authority of a random guy on the street detaining him or possibly wished to avoid yet another in a long line of shake downs by the Bib...

Of course the facts of the case would indicate that he had nothing to hide and was guilty of nothing other than being assaulted. These two points should help you decider the evidence here and come up with a relevant conclusion...

1. Has the victim been detained for questioning or charged with anything?

2. Has the man that kicked the young man and his girlfriend been detained and charged with anything?

You seem to forget that police were on the scene and witnessed the events. Surely if they felt there was anything remotely possible to pin on the young man they would have done? I wonder how much bearing the independent filming of the case has on this and it's outcome? I'd be willing to bet the headline would read a little differently if no-one other than the police were on the scene...

And generally speaking of course evasive action could equally suggest you were trying to avoid an accident, a projectile or physical assault...

I don't think anyone can be sure what happened here based on the video. You see the two motorbikes coming into the shot stage right, then the alleged wrong-doer kicking at the first bike and connecting with the second. There is no sign of a road block in the shot.

The police also came into the shot stage right, so nobody knows (unless they were there) if the road block (as described in the OP) had already been crashed and the volunteer had chased them round the corner.

[Nisa]

I think a lot of people are getting fed up with the number of police shakedowns at the moment. I got stopped and asked for money 3 times in 45 minutes on Sunday morning while riding a fully legal bike with full face helmet. Can you imagine if 200 baht was close to your total daily wage? I'm not surprised people are refusing to stop, it's like stopping to allow someone to rob you.

You must have "sucker" written across your helmet if you are making payments at check points 3x in 45-minutes and you are not in violation of any laws.

Yes Nisa, clearly the fault lies with the individual suffering extortion at the hands of the police and not the police themselves...

Or simply one can use some intelligence and not believe everything they read here .. especially when it defies logic, experience and reality.

[chrisinth]

Am I reading this wrong or what? If it was a police checkpoint, then it is there for a reason. If it is acceptable to let people pass through the checkpoint if that is their want, without being checked then what is the point of having it there in the first place?

I see no problem with what the volunteer did in this instance; he was preventing someone crashing the checkpoint. It is better being kicked off a bike than ending up with half a dozen rounds in your back!

What if, and this is pure speculation, the rider or passenger were carrying weapons or drugs? The same volunteer would be treated as an outstanding officer instead of being in the position now of facing disciplinary action for doing his job because of public opinion.

Just sayin' Look at the picture from both sides.....................

What if.. What if.... Have a look at the video and this clown's actions again. You think kicking kids off a motorbike when all they are doing is probably trying to avoid a police shakedown is appropriate do you. Maybe he should have kicked them a few times too?

How many 'civilised" countries do you know that would tolerate this sort of behaviour from a "police volunteer" ?

It's good to see action being taken and hopefully he won't be allowed to "volunteer' again.

If the kids on the motorbike failed to stop at a police road block, then they were breaking the law. If the kids were prevented from fleeing the scene by someone kicking them off the bike then well done for the person using inititive. You state that they were probably trying to avoid a police shakedown? Where is the evidence of this? Nobody can be sure, based on the video.

You ask about civilised countries? If someone crashed a VCP where I came from, for sure they would have been shot. And that is deemed as a civilised country!

[Ferangled]

I think a lot of people are getting fed up with the number of police shakedowns at the moment. I got stopped and asked for money 3 times in 45 minutes on Sunday morning while riding a fully legal bike with full face helmet. Can you imagine if 200 baht was close to your total daily wage? I'm not surprised people are refusing to stop, it's like stopping to allow someone to rob you.

You must have "sucker" written across your helmet if you are making payments at check points 3x in 45-minutes and you are not in violation of any laws.

Yes Nisa, clearly the fault lies with the individual suffering extortion at the hands of the police and not the police themselves...

Or simply one can use some intelligence and not believe everything they read here .. especially when it defies logic, experience and reality.

What a stark contrast to your previous position where you based all your assumptions on a video clip shot after the event!

Here we have a video showing the entire assault, even the police (clearly not chasing anyone) questioning people they had already stopped... this really is an open and shut case, the only thing defying logic being your response.