My Observations On This Forum Section

[AA1]

I know I am new to this forum..........but Khonwan's comments moved me.

I was initially invited here by a fellow member and am happy to be a part of it.

There is so much good intelligent advice for like-minded members here, I find it disappointing that sometimes it slides into the mentality of those who frequent the General Forum.

@ Khonwan.......I have never heard so many warm and respectful comments directed to one individual as yourself.

I regret that I wasn't here a lot earlier to appreciate your well documented knowledge.

Cheers.

Rsquared,

I agree with all you say. I have learnt a great deal from this 'Farming in Thailand' Forum and have enjoyed it OTHER than the odd time when it sinks to the level of the level of the General Forum much of which I think is for those who have too much time on their hands so TRY to be clever or just argue to waste their (and our) time.

Khonwan,

Thank you for a very sensible and well thought out topic which as can be seen has been and is still being much appreciated by many readers.

I for most of my life have been a frustrated non-farmer. After school in England, I went to Agricultural College and from there became a farm pupil for a time before deciding that the capital required to go into farming as I wished had shot up to a gallactic figure so I moved to other fields of work which ended up with an import/export business between the UK & Thailand. When I moved here full time, I asked my wife, who is a shewd workaholic, what she wanted to do she said "rubber farm" and this is what we do - I should say 'she'as I am only allowed to make suggestions which are usually turned down!!!!

Over the last 7+ years, this is what we have been doing and the trees which are all in one unit will be coming into production over the next 4 to 5 years. (Some of you who came to the 2nd. Farmers Meeting will have seen it). At the end of the rainy season, approx. Sept./Oct., she, my wife, being very much a hands on farmer, is going to start tapping the 1st section herself.

What have I gained out of it?:-

1). I love living in the country.

2). I am no longer a frustated farmer although what I learnt at Agricultural College is of NO use to me in Thailand so it is through people like Jim that I have got a great deal of useful knowledge through the 'Farming in Thailand' topic.

3). Through the Farmers Meetings I have met and made friends with other 'farmers' of other crops/animals from other provinces and have a chance to learn more (as well as having a pint or 2 & Bbq!). We should learn more all our lives to keep the old ticker active. Most of those I know would in no way want the Farmers Meetings to become clique!!

4). When the day of 'fire' arrives, my pension goes up in flame with me and I can go happily knowing that my wife won't starve.

5). I am very happy and kept well occupied.

Excuse my getting rather carried away with my life history BUT the point that I am making is that most of us smaller 'farmers' are doing so to some extent for our own interest and have pensions or similar to sustain us while we keep our wives as well as ourselves happy. There are, of course, exceptions such as when the expat is in a niche market such as pigs, chickens and other animals, horticulture or a farm machinary contractor but it's still very hard work. Otherwise I would agree with you that "you need at least 100 rai just to survive and at least 200 rai to live reasonably well".

I have said quite enough but 'thank you' Khonwan.

AA1.

[Khonwan]

I have been surprised and touched by the comments made, particularly by Rsquared and AA1; I had not expected any such reaction to my posts. Thank you. And I, for one, enjoyed reading about your background, AA1.

Regards

Khonwan

[Gary A]

Regarding maizefarmer. I live about 30 kilometers from where his farm was supposed to be. He said he imported machinery and at that time I was interested in several different items. After asking several times to see his inventory and getting no invitations, I started to have serious doubts. The Phu Kradueng government land office is in the area. During a visit to the land office for a land transfer I had my wife quiz a number of people regarding a farang farming 1,200 rai. Not a bit of information was forthcoming. If he ever existed, he kept a VERY low profile and his farm was not in the area he alledged it was.

[Mark1971]

Khonwan,

Although I will not be actively engaged in farming in Thailand until I retire in 10 years, I thoroughly enjoy reading the posts on this forum.

In particular I am grateful for the knowledge of members who have hands on farming experience in Thailand,

and their generosity to share their practical experience.

At it's best this Forum is a unique source of irreplaceable information, generously provided by the experienced members of this forum.

Thanks

Edited July 31, 2012 by Mark1971

[JurgenG]

Regarding maizefarmer. I live about 30 kilometers from where his farm was supposed to be. He said he imported machinery and at that time I was interested in several different items. After asking several times to see his inventory and getting no invitations, I started to have serious doubts. The Phu Kradueng government land office is in the area. During a visit to the land office for a land transfer I had my wife quiz a number of people regarding a farang farming 1,200 rai. Not a bit of information was forthcoming. If he ever existed, he kept a VERY low profile and his farm was not in the area he alledged it was.

I was introduced to this forum by a friend who had great respect for Maizefarmer. He had some off forum exchanges with him regarding some problems and the guy was very knowledgeable and very helpful. As far as I know he was a highly respected poster, especially in the farming forum. For reasons that belong to him he decided not to post anymore in this forum. He started his own forum but unfortunately the site disappeared a few month later.

I also heard that he highly valued his privacy as, due to his popularity in this forum, he had been the victim of some stalkers. Anyway, what is important is that he was a great contributor to this farming forum and I know that a number of posters from that time still regret his posts.

[Khonwan]

I agree, Mark – I have found no other such comprehensive farming resource on the internet that can compete with this farming forum.

And yes, JurgenG, I and probably all members interested in farming would agree that MF’s posts were extremely informative and have certainly contributed to this valuable resource – not always correct, but neither are any of us. It is a pity that he only started his own site; as far as I know, it was never completed for I checked it out often and found no forum. The only person that I’m aware of that was accused of stalking by some members – never publicly by MF – was a member who has visited my farm and to whose farm I have been; that particular member (an extremely pleasant person and a professional engineer) had been given an open invitation to visit MF in connection with machinery, much as described by Gary. MF’s public reason for protecting his privacy was his story of a farang friend (not connected to this board) who had visited for several days and committed suicide at his home. Most of these details must still be archived but you can PM me for further info if you wish.

Rgds

Khonwan

[pigeonjake]

hi all,

i love all the coments on here, but in my opinion, i must disagree with having to have 100 or even 200 rai, you could be putting some farmers off trying to have a go at it,

it all depends what you want to do, we have a pig farm, and we at the moment only have 2 rai, i could get more from the family, but my pig stys dont even take up 1 rai,

would be the same if you wanted to start a mushroom farm, say 4 or 5 sheds 8x4mts,

so im not saying your not going to make a good living with out the 100 or 200 rai, but you can farm here in thailand with 2 to 10 rai,have a pond ect, we have,

we have our own chickens so never buy an egg,

fish in our pond,

veg growing,

you can do it dont be afraid to have a go,, start small and just see how you go on and dont be afraid to ask others, both farang and thai,

jake

[endure]

Endure

You say I called him a liar – your word, not mine. I simply stand by what I said. I have a certain amount of knowledge that I cannot go into here and I do personally also know the member who went to great lengths to track him down based on MF’s own revelations. I’ve already had much of this out directly with MZ in posts (most of which I think were eventually deleted). MZ is welcome to come back and explain himself should he wish. And since there is zero evidence that anyone knows him here in Thailand, he is unlikely to be able to be embarrassed by anyone.

You're not aware that he suffered very serious injury from a farm machine in Thailand (apologies for not knowing the name of the machine) and had to be medevaced to the US for treatment? That he was incapacitated for months? How can someone who's not posted for 2 years be expected to know that people are talking about him behind his back?

[Khonwan]

Yes, Endure, I am fully aware of that story. I was active on this forum before and during that time. Then he apparently returned to Thailand. He apparently had his arm and one side of his chest severely damaged by an accident with his combine harvester. The then moderator at the time received a message from MF’s wife that was then published, advising us of the accident. MF had often told us that she was a vet who lectured at a large university, which he named (I’m not 100% sure of the name right now but I think it was Korat). He was medevac by the Thai military from his farm to Hong Kong, where he was initially treated before being transferred to USA for further in-patient care.

The “stalker” member (who stopped contributing to the forum shortly after the abuse he received by members, mostly or all non-farming, I think; I personally knew this member and met and conversed by phone with him before and after this event) tried to locate his farm in order to check out some machine that he wanted for his fish farm. He speaks Thai but was accompanied by his wife. As Gary reported above, nobody knew of a farang in the area with anything like 1,200 rai. Still intent on trying to find him, he asked at the closest military helicopter base who told him that they had never medevac a farang. With the mystery deepening, he then drove to the university where MF’s vet wife lectured, only…nobody knew of anyone on the teaching staff that had a farang husband. All of this involved “facts” that were “divulged” by MF on numerous occasions but that turned out to be…how shall I say it?...untrue. Protecting one’s privacy need not involve spinning a yarn.

Let me just add that I have not raked through the archives for this information (though it must all still be there for you to check that I’m not a liar) – I suffer badly from short term memory problems but have quite good recall for distant events; I was highly engaged in the forum at the time and paid particular attention to the details since a great many things were not adding up for me, of which I haven’t touched on here.

Having said all this, my only reason for mentioning MF in the first place was to include him in the group of large land owners who are successful to prove my point that financial success in farming is usually linked to the scale of their operation, in addition to many other qualities. But, in the interest of maintaining my credibility, I thought it important to indicate the doubt that many members had in one of that group, i.e. the most successful in that group. It was not my intention to rake over the coals any further since to do so was to go off topic but I feel I’ve been compelled to do so by follow-through posts here, yours especially (though I appreciate your motives are good, for which I’ll PM you). I do regret bringing his name into this thread since it has become divisive.

Pigeonjake, you are totally right. In my defence, I did say “or large operation”. To clarify, 100-200 rai is required for a decent livelihood from cropping in my opinion. Such land is, of course, not necessarily required for livestock though a livestock operation must obviously be large to provide a secure income in the absence of any other income. I only paid between Bt4,500-7,500 per rai for individual parcels that eventually created my 200 rai, of which 156 rai is contiguous, but my purchases started 16 years ago and ended more than 10 years ago. I recently learned that a Thai friend of a Thai friend wants to buy my land (which includes my house) for 20 million – I’ve no interest in selling. My point here is that I was fortunate to purchase all my land at a time when prices were very low. I would not encourage anyone to buy land for farming at today’s prices: I advise to rent only. I see many here who say that they cannot find land for rent but I think they mean that land for rent has already been rented. Land in my area rents at Bt1,500-2,000 per rai per year but this seems to be around 3 times higher than most rents I read of here on this forum. I would suggest that land should be available to the new expat farmer should you (i.e. your Thai partner) offer a higher rent.

Rgds

Khonwan

[endure]

Apparently it's ok for Khonwan to call Maizefarmer a liar without Maizefarmer being allowed to defend himself but when I point out that we only have Khonwan's word for what he's saying then that's a different matter. Apologies for bringing this onto the forum again but Khonwan has sent me a PM which he's not allowing me to answer by blocking my replies. He seems to make a habit of not allowing people to defend themselves.

[Gary A]

Apparently it's ok for Khonwan to call Maizefarmer a liar without Maizefarmer being allowed to defend himself but when I point out that we only have Khonwan's word for what he's saying then that's a different matter. Apologies for bringing this onto the forum again but Khonwan has sent me a PM which he's not allowing me to answer by blocking my replies. He seems to make a habit of not allowing people to defend themselves.

So, you don't think there is anything strange about maizefarmer? His 1,200 rai farm can't be found? He imports machinery and he doesn't want anyone to see it? He corresponds with people who live near where he says he is located about various machinery then refuses to allow anyone to see it or in the case of smaller stuff, declines to bring it to the potential buyer?

He did write very informative posts and generously shared information. He described in detail machinery he had in stock but no one could see it. Why have a business that imports and rebuilds machinery if you are not going to sell it?

After his supposed accident, he apparently recovered and continued posting. If he didn't choose to defend himself then or now, that's up to him.

[IsaanAussie]

Khonwan is correct in his recollections of Maizefarmer events as is GaryA, thats the way I remember it happening. I never met the man but had much good solid advice on things I was doing in direct exchanges. A few other members have suggested that Maizefarmer was a combination of inputs from various people. I dont care to be honest if the farm existed or not. This forum is an information source and much of its base content was established by people like MF. Unfortunately many of those initial sources of expertise no longer post but it was that initial small group that are responsible for the rich source of information the forum now is.

An obversation of mine on this forum is it is becoming a historical record of Thailand farming development. Maizefarmer offered heaps of great advise to people like me when I was buying my secondhand tractor as that was about all you could get, there were very few new smaller sized tractor dealers then. Most villages had one or two Ford 6610's running around with most work done by Rot Thai iron buffalos.

[endure]

Apparently it's ok for Khonwan to call Maizefarmer a liar without Maizefarmer being allowed to defend himself but when I point out that we only have Khonwan's word for what he's saying then that's a different matter. Apologies for bringing this onto the forum again but Khonwan has sent me a PM which he's not allowing me to answer by blocking my replies. He seems to make a habit of not allowing people to defend themselves.

So, you don't think there is anything strange about maizefarmer? His 1,200 rai farm can't be found? He imports machinery and he doesn't want anyone to see it? He corresponds with people who live near where he says he is located about various machinery then refuses to allow anyone to see it or in the case of smaller stuff, declines to bring it to the potential buyer?

He did write very informative posts and generously shared information. He described in detail machinery he had in stock but no one could see it. Why have a business that imports and rebuilds machinery if you are not going to sell it?

After his supposed accident, he apparently recovered and continued posting. If he didn't choose to defend himself then or now, that's up to him.

I think it's strange that people continue to gossip about someone who's not posted on TV for more than 2 years. I think it's strange that Khonwan started a thread in 2012 which criticises someone who last appeared on Thaivisa in 2010. I think it's even stranger that people denigrate Maizefarmer whilst at the same time admitting that he posted good farming advice. Would it be ok if we all talked about you behind your back?

So you never saw his farm? Is that relevant? Did you benefit from his advice?

[IsaanAussie]

A-mazing-farmer does it again! I can remember this same style of dicussion happening before. Makes me smile, but lets leave sleeping dogs lie and agree on one thing, "Maizefarmer has left the building"

[oldestswinger]

I quite understood Khonwan's original reference to Maizefarmer and the context in which it was made.

I feel that Endure rather stirred things up unnecessarily, but agree with his final comment :-

"So you never saw his farm? Is that relevant? Did you benefit from his advice?"

Anything that is posted to assist those of us who are learning all the time is gratefully received.

[WormFarmer]

In his opening post (most of which I thoroughly agree with) Khonwan suggests that the Issan Farmers Meetings may be becoming a clique, or words to that effect. I do not agree with this. These meetings are open to all and full details of time and location are posted on the Forum so anyone may attend whether or not they live in Isaan. Unfortunately it would appear from Khonwan's profile that he lives in Nakhon Sawan, otherwise, from what he says and has to offer in the way of experience, it would be great if he could host such a meeting, but it is probably too far for most of us to travel to.

In view of the ongoing discussion on this thread about the existence or otherwise of MF et. al. It is worth noting that these meetings are attended by real people at various types of real farms. Such interaction allows people to meet, chat about farming and things in general and gain a better knowledge and understanding of fellow farmers and members of this Forum, it also means that what these people write about themselves and what they do are not fabrications or dreams. This can only be to the good and should not be regarded as a clique. Indeed that alone is a good enough reason to continue with such meetings.

That's my twopennyworth. WF

[necronx99]

Interesting thread with a lot of interesting replies.

Khonwan, you have stated attitudes as a reason to cease posting in the forum.

Attitudes exist and they won't change by themselves. If you disagree with some, the forum is your opportunity to sway them.

[Khonwan]

I agree, Necronx99, which is why I started this thread (I’d been inactive for some months). Due to the positive feedback on this thread (ignoring one certain individual who chooses to try to derail the thrust of the thread by concentrating on less than 1%) I’ve since also posted to three other forum sections plus another thread on this one.

WF, I’m 100% in favour of the Farmer Meetings. There were, however, real signs that some attendees were rushing to defend others simply on the basis of camaraderie rather than on the merit of their posts and that a member (not me) who was not personally known through those meetings was insulted because of it. I won’t detail those examples since my point is only that although it is basic human nature to defend your real-life friends we need to rise above this here and keep our replies objectively based to posts made. I would certainly join your meetings were I not so far away, and similarly host a meeting (though most would have to kip down on the floors as there are no hotels, or bars, around me).

Rgds

Khonwan

[Gary A]

I feel aggrieved because I could have saved a substantial amount of money by buying good second hand machinery from maizefarmer. He simply didn't come through and eventually I bought new machinery. Besides the money consideration, it cost me a considerable amount of time and useless communication.

I'm sorry it has been resurrected because it is indeed meaningless. He is long gone and I had forgotten about the whole irritating situation. The reason I was irritated is because of the VERY detailed descriptions of the machinery I was interested in buying from him.

[slapout]

I have been reluctent to comment on this topic due to the personal feelings of some, to other individual, current or past contributors. I commented in the past that some people make statements that some of those more knowledgable see thru rather quickly. The former do all of us a favor by pointing out the mistakes they/we have made and the possiblity of their being repeated. One past contributor made claims that were at times a tad over the top and some of us pointed this out. The 'borehole' is a good example. This appeared to be a cut and paste from a couple sources and some statements were in error.

If members want good/experienced advice on water quality, drilling, pumping, etc there are a couple TV members who have several decades experience, in Thailand, who volunteer their experience/knowledge on a regular basis. Neither of them, promote themselves as experts, conected to Thailand's hiso society, or involvement in at least a half dozen successful Thai business ventures.

Most of us can remember and even laugh about our experiences/learning curve in Thailand farming. Some of us have more mistakes to share just due to our longivity, never say quite, attitude, and yes, even our stupidity at times. But we have belief that the rain/sunshine will come and things will work out. Or, at least we will not go hungery.

[Gary A]

Boreholes? My wife is tighter than the bark on a tree. She hired the local professional to drill for us. The price for a six inch casing was 33,000 baht regardless of the depth. I'm sure he had a pretty good idea of how deep he would have to go because he is very familiar with the area. She trusted him and he had pretty good water at twenty six meters. The driller decided that the water had too much iron in it for good irrigation and ended up at thirty eight meters deep. His reputation is intact and my wife is happy but she still thinks it was a lot of money. My wife negotiates prices for whatever we want to do and I'm sure she doesn't overpay for anything. I think that in most cases you get what you pay for.

I won't elaborate but will say that since I hired an excavator to dig a pond, I let her make those kind of decisions. I did get a cheap price but I also got a very poor job.

[RedBullHorn]

Apparently it's ok for Khonwan to call Maizefarmer a liar without Maizefarmer being allowed to defend himself but when I point out that we only have Khonwan's word for what he's saying then that's a different matter. Apologies for bringing this onto the forum again but Khonwan has sent me a PM which he's not allowing me to answer by blocking my replies. He seems to make a habit of not allowing people to defend themselves.

So, you don't think there is anything strange about maizefarmer? His 1,200 rai farm can't be found? He imports machinery and he doesn't want anyone to see it? He corresponds with people who live near where he says he is located about various machinery then refuses to allow anyone to see it or in the case of smaller stuff, declines to bring it to the potential buyer?

He did write very informative posts and generously shared information. He described in detail machinery he had in stock but no one could see it. Why have a business that imports and rebuilds machinery if you are not going to sell it?

After his supposed accident, he apparently recovered and continued posting. If he didn't choose to defend himself then or now, that's up to him.

I think it's strange that people continue to gossip about someone who's not posted on TV for more than 2 years. I think it's strange that Khonwan started a thread in 2012 which criticises someone who last appeared on Thaivisa in 2010. I think it's even stranger that people denigrate Maizefarmer whilst at the same time admitting that he posted good farming advice. Would it be ok if we all talked about you behind your back?

So you never saw his farm? Is that relevant? Did you benefit from his advice?

There's nothing strange about gossiping/criticizing behind people's back and certainly common being gossip/criticizing by people, who hasn't done that and who hasn't being that...

[pigeonjake]

in my opinion,, gossip is not really done behind his back, as its here, if you can call it gossip ,for that matter for all to see including maizfarmer,

so why cant everyone just stop the bickering about a member that isnt here anymore and lets all play nicely,

as you all know i love to come on here and read what you are all getting up to, and ive asked my share of questions to verious members and allways had help when asked for,

its a great site this farming site of ours so lets keep it that way,

jake

[Lickey]

Clique? mm, interesting, id love to go one of these meetings, seems the good old boys drinking whiskey and rye have a very good time, its quite a distance from me too, and my health hasnt been good for the last year or so, but a weekend away would be great, just to get the Mrs out of her Salon, I thought about teaching english in the town school and have on several occasins been offered this job, ive always said no, because i dont really have the patience and i know if i got wound up at school i would bring it home with me, taking it out on the Mrs, or on here in one way or another, anger control is a big part of getting older, after 6 years here, ive nearly mastered it, hence i was forced to give up farming 18 months ago, and after that i started the Farmers Sob Stories post, and i suggest thats where the OPs post should have been, without the nameing ect, thats against forum rules,,,,, Yes i know the initial feeling is to retaliate, but leave it a day or so, think it over and answer in a kind of way that satifies you without going overboard,

[Khonwan]

Strange post, Lickey. My OP was not about me; why should I place it in your sob thread, which I’ve never contributed to since I’m not one to sob, despite my own health problems and despite the fact that I’m going on trial on Monday in Pattaya [heading to Pattaya in 30 minutes] to answer a charge of causing death by careless driving 4 months ago though I contributed 0% to the accident in my opinion? Every challenge has just got to be met head-on.

[IsaanAussie]

Strange post......a charge of causing death by careless driving 4 months ago.......Every challenge has just got to be met head-on.

Khonwan,

I wish you luck and justice, but just have to say your choice of words made me smile. Keep your chin up.

[Mosha]

Good luck with the trial Khonwan, a daily frustration is having to drive with 4 pairs of eyes in your head.

[pigeonjake]

good luck mate,

jake

[Khonwan]

Thanks guys – just arrived an hour ago. It will be the first of 4 or 5 hearings, I believe.

IA, I laughed along with you when I read your post quoting me - I hope the judge doesn’t read my post!

I’m taking my wife out now to meet with Brabo for a drink.

Cheers

Khonwan

[Mosha]

This happened to a friend in Chumpon. Pitch dark night, unlit road. He pulled up to a road junction, He stopped, looked left right left. He could not see anything. He pulled out, and bang. Some fool on a motor bike no lights. He sailed over the bonnet and broke his neck. He had to pay 100K to the police and the idiots family. I told my wife, the guy on the motorbike commited suicide.