Ambush In Pattani

[Reasonableman]

Sickening.

[mrtoad]

There has been some commentary in the Thai press suggesting that some of the killings in the Deep South are related to the drugs for weapons trade here in Thailand.

Totally mismanaged by the Thai government, however there is more to this than just religion. These thugs are using religion to further there own means.

Despicable acts, but I am gob smacked that some have chosen to tar a whole religion with this. I have a number of Muslim friends, and they certainly don't condone this type of act.

[SukhumwitSoi22]

There has been some commentary in the Thai press suggesting that some of the killings in the Deep South are related to the drugs for weapons trade here in Thailand.

Propaganda and rubbish.

What happened in 1902?

What was the treaty that was ratified in 1909?

[Payboy]

When is the Thai Government going to give their troops some form of protection?

It's GT200 for the troops and bulletproof vehicles for the leaders.

[simple1]

There has been some commentary in the Thai press suggesting that some of the killings in the Deep South are related to the drugs for weapons trade here in Thailand.

Propaganda and rubbish.

What happened in 1902?

What was the treaty that was ratified in 1909?

I said 'some of the killings". Yes I understand the history. Whether you believe some of the English language media here in Thailand is your choice. But given the endemic corruption I would be not surprised if there is truth in the claims that weapons taken from the security forces are being shipped to the the drug cartels in exchange for drugs to fund ongoing "separatist" activities.

Some interesting reading on the history and background of Muslims in Thailand at:

http://www.slideshar...ims-in-thailand

Edited July 29, 2012 by simple1

[dcutman]

If only 1% or less Muslims are radical. Why is it that the other 99% or more Muslims that want peace and harmony, do something bout these radicals? Would it not benefit these 99%? All the news from the south of Thailand. I never here anything about the Muslim community tracking down these very few, making their lives miserable. I am quite sure they do not like having the military screwing up their peace and harmony.

[aussiebebe]

That's a really shocking video, I can see why it was removed from youtube, I'm so sorry for the soldiers and their families. The very old idea of having a Thai canal cutting across the Trang province (or wherever) seems like an elegant solution to this violence. The Thais should let the Chinese do it but politicians are probably being bribed to oppose it - the eptiome of 'Thainess'.

[jonclark]

Despite the despicable nature of this attack and the great loss for the immediate friends and family, It highlights one simple fact

Thailand is losing.

[Dibbler]

Despite the despicable nature of this attack and the great loss for the immediate friends and family, It highlights one simple fact

Thailand is losing.

Part of my motivation for posting this is exactly this, to point out that this uncensored clip that got slipped to the media tells us the real story that's going on in the border provinces, and that is govt forces are hopelessly outmatched by these people. If the govt is serious about taking control they have a long way to go to be able to resist these clearly highly trained and motivated people intent on exacting mass destruction on govt forces.

One question I have is to ask the simple question who is funding the insurgency? If we can find out where the money comes from to train and equip these insurgent groups, and buy them vehicles that can easily outpace what the Thai Army uses to get around, and turn that off, part of the problem can be solved. I am sure the answer lies somewhere south of the Thai-Malaysia border. I'll bet few politicians are willing to go there...

[Renbe]

To all the posters that regurgitate the misleading propaganda from certain corners of the Christian spectrum about the 'religion of peace', and 'most terrorists are Muslim', please have a look at Mexico, more than 60.000 people tortured, maimed and then killed in the most gruesome ways imaginable in the past 6 years. This is an average of more than 25 people killed per day, each day, over the past 2190 days, and not a Muslims involved.

[samran]

@dibbler, more precisely, across the Malaysian-Thai border. I think there was a good economist article about this a few years back. Smuggling routes to fund arms, vested interests trying to protect them, government incompetence (yes I am looking at you Mr T) all overlaid with a tapestry of historical grievances and some religious tension, of which the feeble minded tend to focus on the last part.

[philw]

@dibbler, more precisely, across the Malaysian-Thai border. I think there was a good economist article about this a few years back. Smuggling routes to fund arms, vested interests trying to protect them, government incompetence (yes I am looking at you Mr T) all overlaid with a tapestry of historical grievances and some religious tension, of which the feeble minded tend to focus on the last part.

Nice and accurate post Samran.

Fully agree and this is a complex and deep seated problem.

[Dibbler]

Handed out some long suspensions for attacks on religious groups. The anger at the perpatrators in this story is justified, but blaming almost a billion people for it is not. Any further violations will be handled similarly.

I know I am on thin ice here, correcting the mod, who just gave me a week "holiday", but the number of moslems worldwide is more than 1,5 billion!

Back to the topic. Those acts of violence in the South have nothing whatsoever to do with religion, as shown by the condemniation from Islam leaders in the region. A bunch of small maverick drugtraders, who are using their kratong-chewing thugs to create chaos, so they can go on with their dirty business.

Interestingly it seems the link between drug use and insurgency in southern Thailand is fairly weak. The argument goes that those disposed to taking serious drugs are no good as foot soldiers for the insurgency. Makes perfect sense... this article here gives some background

Leaf for Drug Cocktail Adds to Thailand’s Woes

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/23/world/asia/kratom-leaf-for-drug-cocktail-adds-to-thailands-woes.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=thailand

[mrtoad]

@dibbler, more precisely, across the Malaysian-Thai border. I think there was a good economist article about this a few years back. Smuggling routes to fund arms, vested interests trying to protect them, government incompetence (yes I am looking at you Mr T) all overlaid with a tapestry of historical grievances and some religious tension, of which the feeble minded tend to focus on the last part.

Good post, as you say there is a lot more to it. DL again has his dirty hands involved in the escalations, although seems to get forgotten. The saddest thing is, that as it carries on there are no winners,only families that lose their loved ones.

[geriatrickid]

Awful, saw this on TV this morning, yeah great in the name of religion.

So, we know already it was in the name of religion and have a religious backround??? ....or is it just the usamerican scareeverybodyshitless theorie?

I think we really should wait for an explanation...and may be Thailand should consider giving the south up to Malaysia or whatever....as long as things like this happen Thailand can really called itself AMAZING .... but please NOT TO ATRACT MORE TOURISTS

As sympathetic as I am to your argument, the handing back of territory is not done. The end result would be anarchy. There is a worldwide tacit agreement that such territoreal situations are accepted. If that wasn't the case. all of Africa, much of South America and Europe would be in flux. Would you bring back the Austro Hungarian Empire borders, the Ottoman Empire borders? Even in North America, Canada and Mexico have a moral claim to large parts of the USA which were ripped away from the two countries because of European decisions. Where does it end?

I don't believe Malaysia really wants the region and one cannot blame them. It is a hotbed of radicals, a poor region and one that could eventually take up arms against the Malaysians. It reminds me a bit of the Irish/Northern Ireland situation. For all the kind words Ireland made in support of the groups wanting the British out, the Irish government didn't want Northern Ireland as there was a strong element in the North that also wanted to overthrow the Irish government.

I think the only way to peace is to follow the Northern Ireland/UK model. However, that would require an acceptance of foreign mediation and none of the implicated parties is willing to accept it. Nor has the violence reached the tipping point. The violence is still contained in the south. I am amazed by the fact that there have been no terror incidents ibn other regions. Until that happens, the Thai population's sentiment will be to ignore the situation.

[seminomadic]

To all the posters that regurgitate the misleading propaganda from certain corners of the Christian spectrum about the 'religion of peace', and 'most terrorists are Muslim', please have a look at Mexico, more than 60.000 people tortured, maimed and then killed in the most gruesome ways imaginable in the past 6 years. This is an average of more than 25 people killed per day, each day, over the past 2190 days, and not a Muslims involved.

Tragic as the situation in Mexico may be, this is a very short-sighted comparison. I'll paraphrase something Alan Watts once said: A war waged for resources or land is an honest war, and will have limited suffering and casualties as there is a goal to be met [obtaining the resources] after which the killing stops. But a war waged in the name of religion is a lot more evil, as one side will not stop killing in the name of righteousness until all of the opposition is annihilated.

[GiHadOrange]

To all the posters that regurgitate the misleading propaganda from certain corners of the Christian spectrum about the 'religion of peace', and 'most terrorists are Muslim', please have a look at Mexico, more than 60.000 people tortured, maimed and then killed in the most gruesome ways imaginable in the past 6 years. This is an average of more than 25 people killed per day, each day, over the past 2190 days, and not a Muslims involved.

Tragic as the situation in Mexico may be, this is a very short-sighted comparison. I'll paraphrase something Alan Watts once said: A war waged for resources or land is an honest war, and will have limited suffering and casualties as there is a goal to be met [obtaining the resources] after which the killing stops. But a war waged in the name of religion is a lot more evil, as one side will not stop killing in the name of righteousness until all of the opposition is annihilated.

The comment that it is "misleading propaganda from certain corners of the Christian spectrum about the 'religion of peace', " is still valid.

[ttelise]

Yeah, Mexico is completely different and the number killed during Caldron is actually more like a 110,000 according a revised death toll I just saw a couple of hours ago.

Certain segments of society, Mexico big time, has become so desensitized to death and human suffering, they can never really be integrated back into a normal peaceful society. Once life has been so devalued in the minds of these animals who torture, mutilate and kill without any reservations and act as if they enjoy it, they are simply too far gone in my opinion to be a part of a peaceful law abidding culture or society.

[seminomadic]

I don't believe Malaysia really wants the region and one cannot blame them. It is a hotbed of radicals, a poor region and one that could eventually take up arms against the Malaysians.

They don't need to be part of Malaysia. They more likely see themselves as an independent Pattani, and from where Malaysia's standing, an independent Pattani is more malleable to any Malaysian machinations than a Pattani that's part of TH and so is more desirable.

Not only that, TH would draw more of this new country's ire than would Malaysia. Mostly if not all upside to an independent Pattani as far as Malaysia's concerned.

I think the only way to peace is to follow the Northern Ireland/UK model. However, that would require an acceptance of foreign mediation and none of the implicated parties is willing to accept it. Nor has the violence reached the tipping point. The violence is still contained in the south. I am amazed by the fact that there have been no terror incidents ibn other regions. Until that happens, the Thai population's sentiment will be to ignore the situation.

Agreed. I think the only reason it hasn't manifest in Satun, Krabi etc. is they're not Yawi (sp?)-speaking Muslims, and from what locals tell me, the non-Yawi-speaking Thai Muslims have this sort of zero-tolerance for Yawi interlopers trying to bring the fray to their province. Hearsay, but seems to make sense. Hope it stays that way.

[seminomadic]

To all the posters that regurgitate the misleading propaganda from certain corners of the Christian spectrum about the 'religion of peace', and 'most terrorists are Muslim', please have a look at Mexico, more than 60.000 people tortured, maimed and then killed in the most gruesome ways imaginable in the past 6 years. This is an average of more than 25 people killed per day, each day, over the past 2190 days, and not a Muslims involved.

Tragic as the situation in Mexico may be, this is a very short-sighted comparison. I'll paraphrase something Alan Watts once said: A war waged for resources or land is an honest war, and will have limited suffering and casualties as there is a goal to be met [obtaining the resources] after which the killing stops. But a war waged in the name of religion is a lot more evil, as one side will not stop killing in the name of righteousness until all of the opposition is annihilated.

The comment that it is "misleading propaganda from certain corners of the Christian spectrum about the 'religion of peace', " is still valid.

From the Christian spectrum, sure. Possibly from the Jewish, Hindu and Buddhist spectrum as well.

Did I forget any?

[beammeup]

I would think a 4-6 man patrol in an armour plated vehicle with a turet mounted 50 cal would have made mince meat out of these poorly trained thugs. Some Heli support wouldnt hurt either. The military and Police need to get serious down there. They are sending their/ our children down there to be butchered. Someone is making a profit or this wouldnt be happening. They need to find out who?

[londoedan]

I would think a 4-6 man patrol in an armour plated vehicle with a turet mounted 50 cal would have made mince meat out of these poorly trained thugs. Some Heli support wouldnt hurt either. The military and Police need to get serious down there. They are sending their/ our children down there to be butchered. Someone is making a profit or this wouldnt be happening. They need to find out who?

I doubt military escalation will solve S Thailands medium and long-term problems.

[webfact]

Three arrested in shooting deaths of soldiers in Pattani

Wattana Kamchu

Panya Tiewsangwan

The Nation

PATTANI: -- Three men have been arrested for their alleged role in Saturday's fatal shooting of four soldiers, according to Pattani Governor Thira Mintarasak.

"We have also retrieved 9mm guns stolen from the slain soldiers," Thira said.

An informed source identified the three suspects as Ismaal Daong, Abdulassi Jeunae and Rosdi Jeunae. The brutal attack took place in Pattani while the soldiers were carrying out their duty.

Thira said the shooting might have involved more than 30 accomplices, many of whom came from nearby provinces.

"We believe 19 of them come from Yala and Narathiwat. Between eight and 10 others come from Songkhla's Chana district," he said.

Thira believed the accomplices wanted to avenge the extrajudicial killing of an insurgent leader, Adinan MasaI.

Pattani police chief MajGeneral Pichet Pitisetphan said investigators were trying to locate all the culprits in Saturday's attack.

"We are in the process of identifying all attackers seen in the footage from a security camera," he said.

He also convened a meeting of all local police station chiefs to step up security measures in the province.

A source said suspected insurgents had already turned two pickups into car bombs and were plotting to detonate them in Muang Pattani municipal areas.

At least two more violent incidents erupted in Pattani early yesterday. The first attack took place in Mae Lan district with two young men shot dead. Pirawat Pitkij, 25, and Yuttana Meechamnan, 19, were gunned down while they were heading back home on a motorcycle at around 1am.

The second attack took place in Yarang district. Zakareeya Tasu, 45, was shot in the head while walking back home in the wee hours of yesterday.

Police are investigating the two cases.

Meanwhile, the Justice for Peace Foundation urged Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra to prioritise efforts to resolve the unrest in the deep South.

-- The Nation 2012-07-30

[Woodcaulk]

I'm not a real touchy-feely kind of guy. More the jaded cynical type, but I just watched on the bkk telly-news interviewing the surviving soldiers and the grieving family of the dead.....heart-wrenching. These filthy cowardly 18 ambushing bastards whether they were just drug bandits or seperatist or jihadist or whatever, can rot in hell. i hope they get there soon and I hope their 72 virgins turn out to be mean as all hell catholic nuns!!!!!

Edited July 30, 2012 by Woodcaulk

[beammeup]

I would think a 4-6 man patrol in an armour plated vehicle with a turet mounted 50 cal would have made mince meat out of these poorly trained thugs. Some Heli support wouldnt hurt either. The military and Police need to get serious down there. They are sending their/ our children down there to be butchered. Someone is making a profit or this wouldnt be happening. They need to find out who?

I doubt military escalation will solve S Thailands medium and long-term problems.

What escalation? If your going to fight fight to win. Since when is better protection and tactics an escalation?

[londoedan]

I would think a 4-6 man patrol in an armour plated vehicle with a turet mounted 50 cal would have made mince meat out of these poorly trained thugs. Some Heli support wouldnt hurt either. The military and Police need to get serious down there. They are sending their/ our children down there to be butchered. Someone is making a profit or this wouldnt be happening. They need to find out who?

I doubt military escalation will solve S Thailands medium and long-term problems.

What escalation? If your going to fight fight to win. Since when is better protection and tactics an escalation?

I'm not sure thats the solution for the problems in S Thailand - as I mentioned earlier, there are some similarities with N Sumatra and the Indonesian military spent a long, long time trying to solve that problem with force. However the province only settled down once the government granted Aceh a degree of autonomy and more devolved power.

[Dibbler]

I would think a 4-6 man patrol in an armour plated vehicle with a turet mounted 50 cal would have made mince meat out of these poorly trained thugs. Some Heli support wouldnt hurt either. The military and Police need to get serious down there. They are sending their/ our children down there to be butchered. Someone is making a profit or this wouldnt be happening. They need to find out who?

I doubt military escalation will solve S Thailands medium and long-term problems.

What escalation? If your going to fight fight to win. Since when is better protection and tactics an escalation?

I'm not sure thats the solution for the problems in S Thailand - as I mentioned earlier, there are some similarities with N Sumatra and the Indonesian military spent a long, long time trying to solve that problem with force. However the province only settled down once the government granted Aceh a degree of autonomy and more devolved power.

You are assuming that all the insurgent groups are wanting autonomy and are not simply using the general discontent about being disadvantaged or discriminated to stir up trouble, or even worse, to use the disorder to go about illegal business such as trading drugs for arms. None of the insurgent groups have actually openly expressed a position on a desire for autonomy. And I doubt the Thai Army would even consider a degree of autonomy since that would go directly against the concept of unity of all Thai peoples in one Kingdom. I don't think there are many parallels with Aceh, Indonesia, except perhaps who may be involved in funding the two insurgencies.

[londoedan]

You are assuming that all the insurgent groups are wanting autonomy and are not simply using the general discontent about being disadvantaged or discriminated to stir up trouble, or even worse, to use the disorder to go about illegal business such as trading drugs for arms. None of the insurgent groups have actually openly expressed a position on a desire for autonomy. And I doubt the Thai Army would even consider a degree of autonomy since that would go directly against the concept of unity of all Thai peoples in one Kingdom. I don't think there are many parallels with Aceh, Indonesia, except perhaps who may be involved in funding the two insurgencies.

OK fair enough - but do you think that the Thai military should escalate their prescence in the S and ramp-up their tactics, as some posters are advocating, or should representatives of the Thai government work on improving the dialogue with the disaffected groups in the South ?

[submaniac]

^^"improving the dialogue with the disaffected groups in the South ?" How is that going to work? There is no real unified organization to deal with, and there are no demands. It would be one thing if some demands have been thrown out that people could even negotiate with. But it isn't like that. It is a rag tag group of thugs with no formal demands, and no formal organization. They're just going around looking for targets of opportunity to kill. As for the "disaffected" groups in the South, I am pretty sure that even Muslim Thais of Malay decent want this to stop too. These thugs are killing Muslims as well as Buddhists.

Edited July 30, 2012 by submaniac

[beammeup]

An escalation would be more soldiers. Better protected soldiers ie: not as vulnerable and easy to kill is not an escalation. Do you have any kids here?

Edited July 30, 2012 by beammeup