Ambush In Pattani

[Sayonarax]

Very bad. Them soldier chicks look RAWR!

Edited July 30, 2012 by Sayonarax

[beammeup]

Edited July 30, 2012 by beammeup

[londoedan]

^^"improving the dialogue with the disaffected groups in the South ?" How is that going to work? There is no real unified organization to deal with, and there are no demands. It would be one thing if some demands have been thrown out that people could even negotiate with. But it isn't like that. It is a rag tag group of thugs with no formal demands, and no formal organization. They're just going around looking for targets of opportunity to kill. As for the "disaffected" groups in the South, I am pretty sure that even Muslim Thais of Malay decent want this to stop too. These thugs are killing Muslims as well as Buddhists.

OK but thats not my impression of whats going on down there - but I'm no expert.

[SuneeTH]

The video should be ban, it do no good for the Buddhist Army.

[cdnvic]

An intelligent discussion on this subject. Thank you

[submaniac]

OK but thats not my impression of whats going on down there - but I'm no expert.

^^ not to get in argument with you are anything, but can you answer (1) who is the leader of the insurgency (2) what is the insurgency's stated goals? (3) Has the insurgency ever made any demands (other than I guess the independency of the Southern provinces which really is not going to happen)?

Unless there is a leadership and sort of agenda,there really isn't much to negotiate with.

[submaniac]

An intelligent discussion on this subject. Thank you

Are you trying to insinuate that on other threads Thaivisa members have been any less than thoughtful courteous gentlemen engaged in stimulating intellectual debate?

[SuneeTH]

It is a bit like Vietnam.

White people keep being slaughter in an attempt of protecting the Yellow people.

In the end the white people realize that the Yellow people don't need the protection of the White people, and do not understand why busy body White people need to go to a far away land to be slaughter?

Same same in (the kingdom of [as claimed by some hard core] ) Pattani.

Buddhist people keep being slaughter in an attempt of protecting the Muslim people.

In the end, I believe, the Buddhist people will realize that the Muslim people don't need the protection of the Buddhist people, and do not understand why busy body Buddhist people need to go to a far away land to be slaughter?

[londoedan]

OK but thats not my impression of whats going on down there - but I'm no expert.

^^ not to get in argument with you are anything, but can you answer (1) who is the leader of the insurgency (2) what is the insurgency's stated goals? (3) Has the insurgency ever made any demands (other than I guess the independency of the Southern provinces which really is not going to happen)?

Unless there is a leadership and sort of agenda,there really isn't much to negotiate with.

No idea who the leader is. My understanding is that some of the people that live in the southern Provinces feel under-represented in Thai politics and are pushing for a degree of independence from Thailand - I'm not sure whether their aim is a separate country, assimilation into Malaysia or an autonomous region within Thailand.

Other persons have disagreed, but from my reading of news reports over the last couple of years, this is similar to the problems Indonesia has struggled with in Aceh (now an autononous region with local Sharia law), East Timor (now completely independent and re-named Timor Leste) and Irian Jaya (re-named West Papua but there is a group in this region agitiating for independence).

[SuneeTH]

Can anyone post a link of the said clip?

[submaniac]

No idea who the leader is. My understanding is that some of the people that live in the southern Provinces feel under-represented in Thai politics and are pushing for a degree of independence from Thailand - I'm not sure whether their aim is a separate country, assimilation into Malaysia or an autonomous region within Thailand.

My mother's family is from the Pattani area. I went there alot when I was a child. Back then, there really wasn't alot of ethnic or religious tensions between Malay Muslims and Thai Buddhists. Everyone generally got along. There are muslim police generals and army generals from the South so I don't think there was ever really a state of "oppression" against muslims from the South either. (I mean it was never like apartheid South Africa.)

Under representation in Thai politics. I guess I can sort of see that, but I chalk that up to more people being in the Bangkok area. I would make the South analogous to Isaan. There's poverty there and not alot of representation in Thai politics either, but no one is planting bombs and stuff either.

[Dibbler]

An escalation would be more soldiers. Better protected soldiers ie: not as vulnerable and easy to kill is not an escalation. Do you have any kids here?

No need for escalation, only improvement in the strategy and allocation of existing resources. All patrols should be in covered vehicles, increase patrol size, ensure patrols are led by experienced staff and must include sharp shooters with sufficient firepower to hold a fight unassisted for at least half an hour, monitoring of patrols in real time using GPS tags affixed to vehicles, and put in more surveillance cameras (we can see the value in having them in place now). The police do have armoured personnel carriers each with a 50 mm gun in the turret. If budget is available add in some monitoring of roads using low cost unmanned drones. These are now available for under $2500 each. I was surprised to learn from a border police friend who is stationed in Pattani that no regular patrols are done at night by security forces. A major shift in tactics must be made to get back control of the night from these people. I'd say this could all be sped up if the Thais asked for temporary assistance from a few very good foreign special forces personnel, perhaps initially for 6 to 12 months.

[simple1]

No idea who the leader is. My understanding is that some of the people that live in the southern Provinces feel under-represented in Thai politics and are pushing for a degree of independence from Thailand - I'm not sure whether their aim is a separate country, assimilation into Malaysia or an autonomous region within Thailand.

My mother's family is from the Pattani area. I went there alot when I was a child. Back then, there really wasn't alot of ethnic or religious tensions between Malay Muslims and Thai Buddhists. Everyone generally got along. There are muslim police generals and army generals from the South so I don't think there was ever really a state of "oppression" against muslims from the South either. (I mean it was never like apartheid South Africa.)

Under representation in Thai politics. I guess I can sort of see that, but I chalk that up to more people being in the Bangkok area. I would make the South analogous to Isaan. There's poverty there and not alot of representation in Thai politics either, but no one is planting bombs and stuff either.

The following URL should provide a deeper understanding on the situation in the "Deep South"; specifically page 14 onwards

http://www.slideshare.net/ikhwanng/history-and-politics-of-the-muslims-in-thailand

[GiHadOrange]

To all the posters that regurgitate the misleading propaganda from certain corners of the Christian spectrum about the 'religion of peace', and 'most terrorists are Muslim', please have a look at Mexico, more than 60.000 people tortured, maimed and then killed in the most gruesome ways imaginable in the past 6 years. This is an average of more than 25 people killed per day, each day, over the past 2190 days, and not a Muslims involved.

Tragic as the situation in Mexico may be, this is a very short-sighted comparison. I'll paraphrase something Alan Watts once said: A war waged for resources or land is an honest war, and will have limited suffering and casualties as there is a goal to be met [obtaining the resources] after which the killing stops. But a war waged in the name of religion is a lot more evil, as one side will not stop killing in the name of righteousness until all of the opposition is annihilated.

The comment that it is "misleading propaganda from certain corners of the Christian spectrum about the 'religion of peace', " is still valid.

From the Christian spectrum, sure. Possibly from the Jewish, Hindu and Buddhist spectrum as well.

Did I forget any?

You forget to call that honest war vs. religious war argument a short-sighted and misleading one.

[sunshine51]

Nice pair of HK-33A3's those ladies have eh laddies?!

[submaniac]

^^ good call. I was trying to figure out what they were.

[cdnvic]

Removed one post with a personal attack.

[metisdead]

Post containing a link to Bangkok Post have been removed:

31) Bangkok Post do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post publications will be deleted from the forum. Please note that this is a decision by the Bangkok Post, not by Thaivisa.com and any complaints or other issues concerning this rule should be directed to them. Quotes from and links to Phuketwan are also not allowed and will also be removed. In special cases forum Administrators or the news team may use these sources.

[jackr]

It reminds me a bit of the Irish/Northern Ireland situation. For all the kind words Ireland made in support of the groups wanting the British out, the Irish government didn't want Northern Ireland as there was a strong element in the North that also wanted to overthrow the Irish government.

I know what you're saying, and though this is off-topic, but just to be clear for people looking for information through Google, apart from the British soldiers and workers etc, there is/was no British (read: English) people en-masse 'in' Northern Ireland. The people of Northern Ireland are Irish and/or British citizens. It wasn't a case of the British saying 'ok, lets withdraw and get our people out' as certain folks around the world tend to think.

[Sayonarax]

It reminds me a bit of the Irish/Northern Ireland situation. For all the kind words Ireland made in support of the groups wanting the British out, the Irish government didn't want Northern Ireland as there was a strong element in the North that also wanted to overthrow the Irish government.

I know what you're saying, and though this is off-topic, but just to be clear for people looking for information through Google, apart from the British soldiers and workers etc, there is/was no British (read: English) people en-masse 'in' Northern Ireland. The people of Northern Ireland are Irish and/or British citizens. It wasn't a case of the British saying 'ok, lets withdraw and get our people out' as certain folks around the world tend to think.

Err im not about to get in to an IRA argument, but giving away crap that doesn't belong to you tends to annoy people. These people on the other hand are just being plain terrorist and doing as they please.. THEY ARE EXTREMIST, Dumb uneducated people who taint the very religion they go on about. Im sure if the army showed up in tanks and full battle gear them pissy little civilian extremist would go running for home. Thailand aint done one thing to fix this, except talk about it and talk about and talk about it.

Countrys full of retards and always will be.

[simple1]

It reminds me a bit of the Irish/Northern Ireland situation. For all the kind words Ireland made in support of the groups wanting the British out, the Irish government didn't want Northern Ireland as there was a strong element in the North that also wanted to overthrow the Irish government.

I know what you're saying, and though this is off-topic, but just to be clear for people looking for information through Google, apart from the British soldiers and workers etc, there is/was no British (read: English) people en-masse 'in' Northern Ireland. The people of Northern Ireland are Irish and/or British citizens. It wasn't a case of the British saying 'ok, lets withdraw and get our people out' as certain folks around the world tend to think.

Err im not about to get in to an IRA argument, but giving away crap that doesn't belong to you tends to annoy people. These people on the other hand are just being plain terrorist and doing as they please.. THEY ARE EXTREMIST, Dumb uneducated people who taint the very religion they go on about. Im sure if the army showed up in tanks and full battle gear them pissy little civilian extremist would go running for home. Thailand aint done one thing to fix this, except talk about it and talk about and talk about it.

Countrys full of retards and always will be.

You really believe that going in with tanks and combat infantry is going to bring the troubles in the Deep South to a final resolution? As far as I am aware not one insurgency campaign has ever been finalised by solely deploying the military. As Churchill said "better to talk jaw to jaw than have war, war"

[sunshine51]

It reminds me a bit of the Irish/Northern Ireland situation. For all the kind words Ireland made in support of the groups wanting the British out, the Irish government didn't want Northern Ireland as there was a strong element in the North that also wanted to overthrow the Irish government.

I know what you're saying, and though this is off-topic, but just to be clear for people looking for information through Google, apart from the British soldiers and workers etc, there is/was no British (read: English) people en-masse 'in' Northern Ireland. The people of Northern Ireland are Irish and/or British citizens. It wasn't a case of the British saying 'ok, lets withdraw and get our people out' as certain folks around the world tend to think.

Err im not about to get in to an IRA argument, but giving away crap that doesn't belong to you tends to annoy people. These people on the other hand are just being plain terrorist and doing as they please.. THEY ARE EXTREMIST, Dumb uneducated people who taint the very religion they go on about. Im sure if the army showed up in tanks and full battle gear them pissy little civilian extremist would go running for home. Thailand aint done one thing to fix this, except talk about it and talk about and talk about it.

Countrys full of retards and always will be.

You really believe that going in with tanks and combat infantry is going to bring the troubles in the Deep South to a final resolution? As far as I am aware not one insurgency campaign has ever been finalised by solely deploying the military. As Churchill said "better to talk jaw to jaw than have war, war"

There has only been one relatively "recent" insurgency that has been "finalised" by

using the military...but not solely by using the military. This insurgency was known as

the Emergency in Malaya and mainly had the Chinese Communists in Malaysia as

principle antagonists. An excellent book about how the event transpired is titled

"Defeating Communist Insurgency" authored by Sir Robert Thompson. It was a

shame none of my commanding officers of O-7 and above rank (General) read the

book nor apparently did any politician bother reading it before escalating the

Vietnam conflict...Especially since the book was first published in 1966...before

severe escallation took place.

Edited July 31, 2012 by sunshine51