Conscription Of Your Son

[chrisinth]

Surely the Thai military must rank amognst that elite group of national defense forces who have killed more of their own citizens than they have foreign 'enemies'.

Go back to the protests in 2010, how many Thai citizens were killed by their own countrymen at the orders of Thai generals/elite etc?

On topic heres a scenario- 1 son gets conscripted and has orders to snipe/shoot my other son who is wearing a red shirt and protesting peacefully in downtown Bangkok 2010.

No i would not let my son go in theThai army, i would educate him otherwise.

Granted the soi dog wasters with little education and motivation would find conscription beneficial.

How about a second scenario where one son joins the police and the other son is a criminal who is arrested by the first son? It is a similar type of scenario as the one you have stated above, possible but extremely unlikely

Would never happen? You just don't know. I hear, and admire to an extent a lot of fathers who think they will know what is right for their sons (and daughters for that matter) when they reach the age of 21. How many of these concerned parents have asked their children (if they are old enough to comprehend) what they would actually want to do? Children change through their adolescence; if you don't know this or have never experienced it, then you are in for a shock.

At the end of the day, conscription is law here in Thailand for all Thai nationals. If you don't want your children conscripted, change their nationalities.

[BirdsandBooze]

^^I don't think that there's that much bigotry in Thailand that a mixed Thai child could not achieve whatever it is that they wanted to achieve. So yes, I think there could be a mixed Army general. It's not like mixed children are prohibited from attending schools, or have to sit at the back of the bus or anything. I don't see any real negative attitudes towards mixed children, especially considering that probably half the Thai TV actors are mixed.

Exactly go and look at the most famous soap/movie stars and personalities....how many are luuk-krung ?.....rather than being discriminated against, it appears this is what large portions of the population aspire to be

Eurasians are favoured in the acting profession for their good looks and pale skin according to my wife.

[endure]

My friends Son Went back to Thailand to do his military service, after living in England from the age of 6. he was killed two days after arriving in Thailand , by a Motor bike. How do you think his mother feels now, also her husband died six weeks later of cancer, she is back in Thailand now putting the ashes of her Husband together with her Son.

So your friend's son's death, while hugely regrettable, had nothing whatever to do with military service? He was killed in a motorbike accident.

He returned for Military service...so it has plenty to do with it.

It was completely coincidental - nothing to do with the military. He wasn't in the military at the time it happened.

[TwoDogz]

My friends Son Went back to Thailand to do his military service, after living in England from the age of 6. he was killed two days after arriving in Thailand , by a Motor bike. How do you think his mother feels now, also her husband died six weeks later of cancer, she is back in Thailand now putting the ashes of her Husband together with her Son.

So your friend's son's death, while hugely regrettable, had nothing whatever to do with military service? He was killed in a motorbike accident.

He returned for Military service...so it has plenty to do with it.

It was completely coincidental - nothing to do with the military. He wasn't in the military at the time it happened.

He returned for military service, if he had not been conscripted or bailed out of it, high chance he would still be alive today.

It is very relevant.

[Trembly]

If your son, blood son and not step son, cannot get into the military academies to possibly rise to the highest level he could possibly achieve and if he could not join the police academy to do like wise and eventually create a never ending stream of cash flow, then why should we be ok for him to be conscripted ?

That is if the statements in this thread are correct about a half thai child not being allowed into the elite.

God help if he became a prime minister.

I'm afraid that the aforesaid statements are a load of old knob.

The only rigid bar to certain trades / ranks / appointments would be a failure to be security cleared for same. There are certain jobs that are considered to be too sensitive for people who do not have anywhere from chuea-chat Thai (Thai extraction), both parents being Thai, both grandparents being Thai, or even both great-grandparents being Thai, whilst there are many trades / jobs / postings / appointments that are open to anyone with a National ID card which states their chuea-chat (extraction) as being Thai, as any loog-krueng should have.

No different in the UK Armed forces, who are stricter about this than many might think.

And to muse idly, it would take virtually a whole career for someone to become Surpreme Commander of any service branch after passing out from the unofficially pre-requisite Armed Forces Preparatory Academy and by then (if you start counting now) Thailand could be a very different place.

Sorry for the delay in getting back on this but the Royal Thai Police Academy website is on the blink.

Entrance requirement No. 3 for the general public to attend the academy: มีสัญชาติไทยโดยกำเนิด และบิดามารดามีสัญชาติไทยโดยกำเนิด แต่ถ้าบิดาเป็นนายทหารสัญญาบัตร หรือเป็นข้าราชการตำรวจซึ่งมีสัญชาติไทยโดยการเกิดแล้วมารดาจะมิใช่เป็นผู้ มีสัญชาติไทยโดยการเกิดก็ได้ (apologies for using Thai but it is a direct quote from the facebook page of the academy). If the mods need to remove the Thai, please do so, but I feel it makes the point more valid). Roughly it says, "be Thai by birth and father and mother must also be Thai by birth, however, if the father is a commissioned officer in the armed forces or a policeman of Thai nationality by birth, the mother does not need to be of Thai nationaility by birth".

For the armed forces, I will check but I believe it is an internal regulation.

One might say Trembly's comments could be a load of old knobs.

That would mean that the fact of there being any loog-krueng conscripted or enlisted in the Thai Armed Forces is just a load of old knob.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Trembly

[GarryP]

You've lost me with that last comment. Never denied that there were luk kreung conscripted or enlisted in the forces. My son is subject to conscription. All I have said is that luk kreung will not be accepted by the police academy, which they would need to attend if they wish to become police officers, and denied the opportunity for officer training in the armed forces. Different issues. But it beggars the question, why be required to serve in an army as a conscript if that very army denies you the opportunity of becoming an officer due to the nationality of your parents. It is wrong in my eyes. It smacks of racism and is in conflict with the constitution.

[samran]

Gary, you've got me confused a bit here. Are you saying there is a rule that children with a foreign parent aren't allowed to serve as Military Officers, or only as Police officers?

I've pretty much gone throught the military rules with a fine tooth comb to find legal 'outs', but having a foreign parents wasn't one of them!

[Soutpeel]

Gary, you've got me confused a bit here. Are you saying there is a rule that children with a foreign parent aren't allowed to serve as Military Officers, or only as Police officers?

I've pretty much gone throught the military rules with a fine tooth comb to find legal 'outs', but having a foreign parents wasn't one of them!

And the other fact, we are talking about a 2 year conscription not a military career,therefore someone going in for two years would never be an officer anyway. As regard the racism/nationalism bit many countries prohibit dual nationals from attaining officer status due to security clearance requirements, Thailand is not alone in this regard

[GarryP]

Gary, you've got me confused a bit here. Are you saying there is a rule that children with a foreign parent aren't allowed to serve as Military Officers, or only as Police officers?

I've pretty much gone throught the military rules with a fine tooth comb to find legal 'outs', but having a foreign parents wasn't one of them!

My son was interested in a career in the army. He considered enlisting rather than being conscripted, and once in, signing up for officer training if he found the life suited him. Enlistment is for one year whereas conscription is two. From consultation with the conscription officer (sasadee) and his own research, he found that as a luk kreung he did not have the opportunity to go from being a conscriptee/enlistee to officer training. As I said in one of my earlier posts, I believe this is an internal regulation and to date I have not be able to get my hands on it.

As you have said before (in respect of the police), and as another poster has suggested in a PM (the army), this should be tested in the court as it is unconstitutional. However, if the person hopes to have any future in the army, taking it to court would certainly put an end to that!!!!

Sorry for any confusion caused.

Soutpeel: I am not denying that other countries may do the same (I honestly don't know if they do or don't). You should note that when you are conscripted or enlisted, you have the opportunity to make the army your career and move on to officer training. But if you are barred from becoming an officer because of your race, or parents race, why should you have to serve in that very same army as a conscript in the first place. It does not seem logical.

[mjj]

Do you guys realise how bad war is? Or the fallout afterwards?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1758301.stm

[Rancid]

The fact that they carry a Thai passport or nationality makes then 100% Thai, so why should they be treat differently from other persons who are 100% Thai

The fact that he has a farang father, means he could never be a General in the army, I agree with the OP to some degree, why fight for a country who discriminates against you, of course when the time comes my son will be in the same position, I will let him choose, but he will know the facts before he chooses.

This is a country which has had Thai-Indian's as a supreme court judge (and now member of the Privvy council), so I somehow think a luuk-krung won't be as bad off as many think.

That is interesting Samran, I didn't know that. But I don't recall ever seeing any ranking military, police, public servant or politicians that are luuk-krung, what is your take on that, they are not welcome or that none ever join? My son will do cadets so it isn't an issue, however one does have to be sympathetic to the argument that if there is no prospect of career promotion then why join an army like that. Is there discrimination in government agencies or not and if so how do you reconcile that to the equality a Thai passport should confer? As you know that isn't the case elsewhere.

[TwoDogz]

Gary, you've got me confused a bit here. Are you saying there is a rule that children with a foreign parent aren't allowed to serve as Military Officers, or only as Police officers?

I've pretty much gone throught the military rules with a fine tooth comb to find legal 'outs', but having a foreign parents wasn't one of them!

And the other fact, we are talking about a 2 year conscription not a military career,therefore someone going in for two years would never be an officer anyway. As regard the racism/nationalism bit many countries prohibit dual nationals from attaining officer status due to security clearance requirements, Thailand is not alone in this regard

Still woooosh

[Soutpeel]

Gary, you've got me confused a bit here. Are you saying there is a rule that children with a foreign parent aren't allowed to serve as Military Officers, or only as Police officers?

I've pretty much gone throught the military rules with a fine tooth comb to find legal 'outs', but having a foreign parents wasn't one of them!

And the other fact, we are talking about a 2 year conscription not a military career,therefore someone going in for two years would never be an officer anyway. As regard the racism/nationalism bit many countries prohibit dual nationals from attaining officer status due to security clearance requirements, Thailand is not alone in this regard

Still woooosh

Your toilet still not fixed ?

[hellodolly]

My son, the best thing and the saviour of my life, will not and I guarantee be entering the Thai army!

When my son is 21 he will be towards the end of a degree in a university in England! He will he British and no more! As well as Jewish.

A British passport is a passport to life. I couldn't give a monkeys! My wife who I live dearly will have an English passport by then, aswell as my son and me. Inevitably it will mean happuness!

Sounds like you are in a unhappy marriage. A British Passport wil not buy happiness. That is a inside job.

[hellodolly]

The conscripts sent to the South are sparingly used for direct actions. They provide the bodies to guard infrastructure and man checkpoints. Typically, the KIAs come from the full time forces and specialized units. I do not dispute your concerns but, attacks of this kind are not typical. More typical is the IED that killed 5 policemen in Yala last Wednesday.Also more typical are attacks on the general population. The dead soldiers came from Nakhon Si Thammarat and Satun, which is in the south for those that do not know their Thai geography. As such, these are people that grew up in the troubled region and that had families at risk.

And to put a name to these people; The dead soldiers and respective ages were Sgt Luechai Chunthong, 28, Pvt Ekkalak Sidokmai, 22, Pvt Phakhim Hongmak, 22, and Pvt Bencharong Sikaeo, 22. Wounded soldiers were Sgt Prida Nopphakhun, 30, and Pvt Akom Suklom, 22.

Well I have to agree with you except we have a daughter and son in law living in Nakhon Si Thammarat and they do not have any trouble there. They have lived there for 23 years. One province down is a different story.

You are quite correct in the use of conscripts. It would be interesting to see how big of a percentage of them even get sent to the south.

To put it in perspective would these I will never let my 21 year old son make a choice ever considered sending the kids over to the states where they can enlist in the American army or to Canada where they can become a Canadian soldier and serve as a peace keeper some place in Africa. Or perhaps one of the NATO countries in Afghanistan.

[jacktrip]

I actually think young people benefit from a spell in the forces, especially in a morally redundant and ethically corrupt place such as Thailand where all men are basically still sucking on their mummas tit.... If my son wanted to do it I would advise him to go to a real country and do it there and not in an abortion of a country like this.

So then, why are you here? If you do not want to have your son conscripted, fine. If you want to make a comment about how miserable the country and the people I love is...well I think you can go home if you like. I don't think that the Thai's invited you over. Other people on this forum seem to like Thailand just fine. Me included.

i actually have an official invitation from thailand to come here. it says that complaining is not allowed, and that if i ever say something negative i am to leave the country immediately.

[hellodolly]

I actually think young people benefit from a spell in the forces, especially in a morally redundant and ethically corrupt place such as Thailand where all men are basically still sucking on their mummas tit.... If my son wanted to do it I would advise him to go to a real country and do it there and not in an abortion of a country like this.

So then, why are you here? If you do not want to have your son conscripted, fine. If you want to make a comment about how miserable the country and the people I love is...well I think you can go home if you like. I don't think that the Thai's invited you over. Other people on this forum seem to like Thailand just fine. Me included.

Won't be for long so don't worry sunny. Plus, in other countries they have a thing called free speech. Sure, it does not exist here because people don't like the idea of people challenging and not agreeing with their 15th century view of life. Can't see how anyone can actually believe they are integrated here unless they have given up on the morals and ethics of their home country upbringing. Lots of reasons to stay here but the biggest reason to leave is that basically you can not trust anyone. Word and contract means nothing. As for the army, they are no better than the millitary junta in Myanmar prior to them taking over and I would not at all be surprised if one day when they next have a coup they just stay in power. Then you will see how integrated you and the other farangs are here as you are hounded out of town. Military is a joke here. Not as bad as the politicians and the police but nearly there and all part of a big extortion racket.

Oh, and no, I am not and have never married / dated a bar girl. I am not a sex tourist. I do not hang out in or own a beer bar / gogo. Even the chinese has more business ethics than the typical Thai. So don't worry sunny, I'm out of here and will watch from afar as the next coup becomes a dictatorship and you all leave to home.

You sound like you come from a western country. I am quite sure they have very good help there for the mentally challenged.

They certainly don't here.

By By

[maxme]

I actually think young people benefit from a spell in the forces, especially in a morally redundant and ethically corrupt place such as Thailand where all men are basically still sucking on their mummas tit.... If my son wanted to do it I would advise him to go to a real country and do it there and not in an abortion of a country like this.

So then, why are you here? If you do not want to have your son conscripted, fine. If you want to make a comment about how miserable the country and the people I love is...well I think you can go home if you like. I don't think that the Thai's invited you over. Other people on this forum seem to like Thailand just fine. Me included.

Won't be for long so don't worry sunny. Plus, in other countries they have a thing called free speech. Sure, it does not exist here because people don't like the idea of people challenging and not agreeing with their 15th century view of life. Can't see how anyone can actually believe they are integrated here unless they have given up on the morals and ethics of their home country upbringing. Lots of reasons to stay here but the biggest reason to leave is that basically you can not trust anyone. Word and contract means nothing. As for the army, they are no better than the millitary junta in Myanmar prior to them taking over and I would not at all be surprised if one day when they next have a coup they just stay in power. Then you will see how integrated you and the other farangs are here as you are hounded out of town. Military is a joke here. Not as bad as the politicians and the police but nearly there and all part of a big extortion racket.

Oh, and no, I am not and have never married / dated a bar girl. I am not a sex tourist. I do not hang out in or own a beer bar / gogo. Even the chinese has more business ethics than the typical Thai. So don't worry sunny, I'm out of here and will watch from afar as the next coup becomes a dictatorship and you all leave to home.

You sound like you come from a western country. I am quite sure they have very good help there for the mentally challenged.

They certainly don't here.

By By

And where are you from... Nakhon-That-I-Forgot? He has an opinion, not a pleasant one, yet an opinion.

[Thongkorn]

My friends Son Went back to Thailand to do his military service, after living in England from the age of 6. he was killed two days after arriving in Thailand , by a Motor bike. How do you think his mother feels now, also her husband died six weeks later of cancer, she is back in Thailand now putting the ashes of her Husband together with her Son.

So your friend's son's death, while hugely regrettable, had nothing whatever to do with military service? He was killed in a motorbike accident.

yes true but if he had not been patriotic he would still be alive today.

[mjj]

My wife took her motorcycle test a few months ago. While the group were sat down waiting for instruction a soldier came in to ask if anyone wanted to volunteer to be a soldier as they needed people in the troubled south. Most people laughed at him, he said he was serious, all said no way!

Maybe conscripts don't go to the danger areas, but 2 years is a long time and policy can change.

[Trembly]

You've lost me with that last comment. Never denied that there were luk kreung conscripted or enlisted in the forces. My son is subject to conscription. All I have said is that luk kreung will not be accepted by the police academy, which they would need to attend if they wish to become police officers, and denied the opportunity for officer training in the armed forces. Different issues. But it beggars the question, why be required to serve in an army as a conscript if that very army denies you the opportunity of becoming an officer due to the nationality of your parents. It is wrong in my eyes. It smacks of racism and is in conflict with the constitution.

Apologies for the misunderstanding, I was replying to TwoDogz.

I personally know of 1 serving loog-krueng officer and another who was offered an immediate interview for RTAF pilot training and therefore a RTAF commission purely on the strength that he had previously been commissioned in and left the RN (UK Navy) and expressed a desire to do some flying.

Seems like the 'Police rule' is ignored as a matter of convenience if it applies to the military at all.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Trembly

[hellodolly]

Do you guys realise how bad war is? Or the fallout afterwards?

http://news.bbc.co.u...ews/1758301.stm

Well two things.

1 I have a hard time calling the Falklands a war. The same as the two in Iraq and the one going on now in Afghanistan. It is a insult to the men and women who died in the first and second world wars and the Korean and Viet Nam ones. I am approving of the Korean as a war but I condemn the Viet Nam one all though it to was a war. and

2 I had heard that the US army had as many suicides in the second trip in Iraq as they had combat deaths.

Armed conflicts of any kind have a fall out that is not seen by most people or tended to be over looked by others. For instance you never hear about the horrors the civilians go through in the war zones.

[mjj]

Do you guys realise how bad war is? Or the fallout afterwards?

http://news.bbc.co.u...ews/1758301.stm

Well two things.

1 I have a hard time calling the Falklands a war. The same as the two in Iraq and the one going on now in Afghanistan. It is a insult to the men and women who died in the first and second world wars and the Korean and Viet Nam ones. I am approving of the Korean as a war but I condemn the Viet Nam one all though it to was a war. and

2 I had heard that the US army had as many suicides in the second trip in Iraq as they had combat deaths.

Armed conflicts of any kind have a fall out that is not seen by most people or tended to be over looked by others. For instance you never hear about the horrors the civilians go through in the war zones.

......and this is why my son will NEVER join an army.

[VintageTQ]

My son, the best thing and the saviour of my life, will not and I guarantee be entering the Thai army!

When my son is 21 he will be towards the end of a degree in a university in England! He will he British and no more! As well as Jewish.

A British passport is a passport to life. I couldn't give a monkeys! My wife who I live dearly will have an English passport by then, aswell as my son and me. Inevitably it will mean happuness!

MrZ, you clearly have real resentment towards thailand, can i ask why?

Surely you must have loved Thailand at some point to end up with a Thai family.

[VintageTQ]

My son, the best thing and the saviour of my life, will not and I guarantee be entering the Thai army!

When my son is 21 he will be towards the end of a degree in a university in England! He will he British and no more! As well as Jewish.

A British passport is a passport to life. I couldn't give a monkeys! My wife who I live dearly will have an English passport by then, aswell as my son and me. Inevitably it will mean happuness!

MrZ, you clearly have real resentment towards thailand, can i ask why?

Surely you must have loved Thailand at some point to end up with a Thai family.

[bina]

the topic is conscription in thailand. not pro or anti war. but about dual citizenship and conscription for leuk keung kids. take the pro and anti war discussion to an other forum, for the end of this topic is nearing.

bina

israel

[mjj]

the topic is conscription in thailand. not pro or anti war. but about dual citizenship and conscription for leuk keung kids. take the pro and anti war discussion to an other forum, for the end of this topic is nearing.

bina

israel

How can you separate the 2? If you are a conscript you can go to war or enter battle zones.

And actually this thread is about sons being conscripts, little to do with whether the conscripts are dual nationality or not.

[Arkady]

what kind of father would let his own son get sent to the army of a country who hates him. Many loopholes. Your son isnt 100% thai so why should he serve people who think outsiders are worthless cockroaches

For someone who feels this way Thai law obligingly provides a very appropriate remedy for his son. Under Section 14 of the Nationality Act the son has the right to renounce his Thai nationality upon reaching the age of 20, provided that he can show he holds his father or mother's foreign nationality and that this country is not currently at war with Thailand. This is a very generous provision that allows young men in this situation to avoid military service in an entirely legal and inexpensive manner. Countries such as Singapore would still force them to do military service after cancelling their nationality.

[Chittychangchang]

what kind of father would let his own son get sent to the army of a country who hates him. Many loopholes. Your son isnt 100% thai so why should he serve people who think outsiders are worthless cockroaches

For someone who feels this way Thai law obligingly provides a very appropriate remedy for his son. Under Section 14 of the Nationality Act the son has the right to renounce his Thai nationality upon reaching the age of 20, provided that he can show he holds his father or mother's foreign nationality and that this country is not currently at war with Thailand. This is a very generous provision that allows young men in this situation to avoid military service in an entirely legal and inexpensive manner. Countries such as Singapore would still force them to do military service after cancelling their nationality.

So in theory you could renounce your Thai citizenship on conscription age and renew your citizenship upon reaching the safe age?

[harryfrompattaya]

what kind of father would let his own son get sent to the army of a country who hates him. Many loopholes. Your son isnt 100% thai so why should he serve people who think outsiders are worthless cockroaches

For someone who feels this way Thai law obligingly provides a very appropriate remedy for his son. Under Section 14 of the Nationality Act the son has the right to renounce his Thai nationality upon reaching the age of 20, provided that he can show he holds his father or mother's foreign nationality and that this country is not currently at war with Thailand. This is a very generous provision that allows young men in this situation to avoid military service in an entirely legal and inexpensive manner. Countries such as Singapore would still force them to do military service after cancelling their nationality.

So in theory you could renounce your Thai citizenship on conscription age and renew your citizenship upon reaching the safe age?

No You would not get it back