Death Of My Father In Thailand 3 Weeks Ago

[notouchmonkey]

i know it may not seem like it but actually i am keen to try and understand the situation and the motivations of his wife. there is a big cultural divide and i am beginning to understand that abject poverty is a very real motivation for the actions of some ladies in thailand. there has to be some compassion for that.

I think you can tell from the ATM card use her motives (and the fact he met her in a bar in Pattaya).

Greed and avarice.

But she was with him for 8 years, so maybe she is entitled.

thank you tommophysicist, as you said she was with him 8 years and maybe deserved his money (to put it bluntly - she has earned it). so I think you're right, she looked after him for 8 years and was his friend at any rate, (as his daughter i try to to think about the 'other thing'! but im sure she looked ater him and they didnt argue too much. i do indeed think she is entitled to a comfortable life without money worries. But i worry about the manipulation or any foul play. I also beleive that my dad meant to leave us money so we could have a better life too.he dreamed that maybe one day me and my sister would be on the uk housing ladder and not living in a shitty flat in south london! So now i am wondering, best not perhaps to 'fight' her for the money...perhaps she might see us right in the end???

[notouchmonkey]

i know it may not seem like it but actually i am keen to try and understand the situation and the motivations of his wife. there is a big cultural divide and i am beginning to understand that abject poverty is a very real motivation for the actions of some ladies in thailand. there has to be some compassion for that.

I think you can tell from the ATM card use her motives (and the fact he met her in a bar in Pattaya).

Greed and avarice.

But she was with him for 8 years, so maybe she is entitled.

thank you tommophysicist, as you said she was with him 8 years and maybe deserved his money (to put it bluntly - she has earned it). so I think you're right, she looked after him for 8 years and was his friend at any rate, (as his daughter i try to to think about the 'other thing'! but im sure she looked ater him and they didnt argue too much. i do indeed think she is entitled to a comfortable life without money worries. But i worry about the manipulation or any foul play. I also beleive that my dad meant to leave us money so we could have a better life too.he dreamed that maybe one day me and my sister would be on the uk housing ladder and not living in a shitty flat in south london! So now i am wondering, best not perhaps to 'fight' her for the money...perhaps she might see us right in the end???

EEEK that should have read I try NOT to think about the 'other thing' ...o dear

[soi41]

@ the OP. Instead of spending/wasting big money on solicitors in the UK and/or Thailand, why not buy a cheap ticket and fly out here. Sit down face to face with your fathers wife, you might like her , and find a solution acceptable to both of you. I can not see any Thai lady (bar or not) insisting on an old person getting thrown out of her home. I am sure that you can reach an agreement along the lines of, she keeps what is in Thailand and the rest of the family gets what is in the UK

[Soutpeel]

@ the OP. Instead of spending/wasting big money on solicitors in the UK and/or Thailand, why not buy a cheap ticket and fly out here.

"whilst we were in thailand and this was going on".....seems the OP was in Thailand

[maxme]

i know it may not seem like it but actually i am keen to try and understand the situation and the motivations of his wife. there is a big cultural divide and i am beginning to understand that abject poverty is a very real motivation for the actions of some ladies in thailand. there has to be some compassion for that.

I think you can tell from the ATM card use her motives (and the fact he met her in a bar in Pattaya).

Greed and avarice.

But she was with him for 8 years, so maybe she is entitled.

thank you tommophysicist, as you said she was with him 8 years and maybe deserved his money (to put it bluntly - she has earned it). so I think you're right, she looked after him for 8 years and was his friend at any rate, (as his daughter i try to to think about the 'other thing'! but im sure she looked ater him and they didnt argue too much. i do indeed think she is entitled to a comfortable life without money worries. But i worry about the manipulation or any foul play. I also beleive that my dad meant to leave us money so we could have a better life too.he dreamed that maybe one day me and my sister would be on the uk housing ladder and not living in a shitty flat in south london! So now i am wondering, best not perhaps to 'fight' her for the money...perhaps she might see us right in the end???

I think the only way to deal with this is to confront her or talk to her first and make sure which side she is on. Once you know that, it will be a lot easier to choose the next course of action.

[phuturatica]

My condolences to you and your family.

I hope you get to the bottom of things soon.

[notouchmonkey]

i know it may not seem like it but actually i am keen to try and understand the situation and the motivations of his wife. there is a big cultural divide and i am beginning to understand that abject poverty is a very real motivation for the actions of some ladies in thailand. there has to be some compassion for that.

I think you can tell from the ATM card use her motives (and the fact he met her in a bar in Pattaya).

Greed and avarice.

But she was with him for 8 years, so maybe she is entitled.

thank you tommophysicist, as you said she was with him 8 years and maybe deserved his money (to put it bluntly - she has earned it). so I think you're right, she looked after him for 8 years and was his friend at any rate, (as his daughter i try to to think about the 'other thing'! but im sure she looked ater him and they didnt argue too much. i do indeed think she is entitled to a comfortable life without money worries. But i worry about the manipulation or any foul play. I also beleive that my dad meant to leave us money so we could have a better life too.he dreamed that maybe one day me and my sister would be on the uk housing ladder and not living in a shitty flat in south london! So now i am wondering, best not perhaps to 'fight' her for the money...perhaps she might see us right in the end???

I think the only way to deal with this is to confront her or talk to her first and make sure which side she is on. Once you know that, it will be a lot easier to choose the next course of action.

i guess thats our problem. We (my sister and I) were over in thailand for his funeral. We spoke to her a lot, i / we cant decide how genuine she is, there are some cultural differences on both sides, and she has as many assumptions about us as we do about her i guess. she thinks that all people from the uk live in luxury. but we dont. Also, There is much lost in translation when having such 'delicate' conversations. I DO trust that she wants to do the right thing but i also can see her need to have money and not work again as a bar girl. I get that, but financial motivations make people do bad things and i dont know whether to trust that she will do as she says.

[thenervoussurgeon]

Notouchmonkey

I am so sorry to hear of your loss ,i do not know what happened to your dad and would not like to guess ,but after a long life i have learnt one thing and its something my dad drummed into me "trust nobody" now i am not talking about close familly, but be afraid when somebody says trust me ,be very afraid!!

Again so sorry for your loss ,i know my daughter will be devastated when i go .

[marstons]

Obviously you need to see a solicitor in UK, not sure if they still do but used to give free half hour consultation. As already stated if his bank accounts were in his sole name nobody is allowed to touch the account upon his death. the bank would want copies of death certificate, the will etc. the will has to be defined clearly did he leave the £40k as cash, maybe this would have to be difined i would think as cash and the house would have to be named in another part. wills are very specific, and wording has to be clear. She has commited fraud by taking that money out of the account, a serious crime. Who is the executer of the will?.

contest it, she will not have a clue and will not fight it i would think. He did not need to marry her to get the visa, which again is a shame he did although does not entitle her to much more, only assets gained after marriage.

i have lived here 10 years and am still amazed how these women can manipulate guys like your father.

Really hope gran does not have to leave i am sure she will not, the woman here (Thailand) would have to employ UK solicitors, then there's the fraud she commited. never known burial before, tends to be a Thai/ Chinese tradition.

Hopefully you wont have to give another penny and the inheritance stays where it belongs with his TRUE family.

Good Luck

[metisdead]

A post with off topic derogatory generalizations has been removed as well as replies.

[soi41]

@marstons. Who is ones TRUE family? The one who gave an old man 8 (hopefully) good last years or the family back home, who he was in touch with for X-mas and birthdays ?

Personally I would leave it to my Thai family=wife, who has given me 10 good years, despite my grumpyness and sarcastic attitude.

I have a grown up son in my homecountry, who already had the advantage of growing up in a developed country and thanks to a good education hopefully will be succesful in his own right.

So in my mind, the TRUE family, the Thai one, is the one who deserves, whatever I leave behind.

[fish fingers]

1) I agree

2) Yes

3) No chance

4) Contest, she might just give up if faced with a costly fight from another country.

So sorry to hear about your loss.

I hope at least you father enjoyed his last years.

You might also wish to report her to the Thai police (or his bank) for using your fathers account after his death. That isn't allowed.

thank you for that and for your condolences. Interesting what you said about reporting her to the police. they were uk bank accounts and the mere mention of thailand to them and said bank says we cant chase that. I asked the FCO abour reporting her to the police whilst we were there, they said it would be not be advised whilst we are still in the country. I discussed the whole thing with the wife who told us that in thailand the police wouldnt do anything to her... i'm guessing she's right. She/ they lived in a very small village way down in the nakon area, most of her cousins are police. we weighed up the situation and decided it was too risky to make a fuss.

If it was a UK bank account, you can definitely report the money as stolen.

Nobody is allowed to access the account of a dead person in the uk.

Also as she was only left 40k from his UK assets, money taken illegally from his UK bank must, at worst, be offset against her 40k.

good advice. I'm interested to know if challenging the Will etc, the thai widow would have to fight this in a UK court, and I'm guessing that she wouldn't then be able to afford to challenge it?

[RudieTheFoodie]

OP

I think that your father was murdered for his inheritance.

My heart goes out to you and your family.

We can hope that your Dad enjoyed his last days (and knew nothing)

Give the Thai family nothing. Look after yourself and your family.

Let them come to the UK and fight you for it. They never will.

May your father rest in peace.

[maxme]

OP

I think that your father was murdered for his inheritance.

My heart goes out to you and your family.

We can hope that your Dad enjoyed his last days (and knew nothing)

Give the Thai family nothing. Look after yourself and your family.

Let them come to the UK and fight you for it. They never will.

May your father rest in peace.

Oh, that's a swell idea ... give her doubt and ideas she doesn't need right now. This needs to be taken with a sense of objectivity. Find out facts before doing anything. Ever heard of the expression "Ask before you shoot?"

[Sheryl]

I would not make any assumptions about what she will do. As you realize there are immense cultural differences and she has no realistic understanding of your world or your circumstances.

As others have said, you should consult a UK solicitor. If the bank account she is emptying are UK based this can be stopped. if they are in Thailand, that may not be possible especially as she is his legal next of kin. Basically I think you have to wrote off any assets that were within Thailand and focus on what is in the UK. that may mean you end up with less than you expected/would like, but that's the way it goes. She was his wife, legal next of kin, and this is Thailand and she is Thai. I would think there is a good chance of preserving the house in the UK, though a solicitor would be in a better position to say.

Any number of things could have sent him to the hospital with "breathing problems" -- pneumonia, a heart attack, a severe allergic reaction, you name it. having had a satisfactory check up prior doesn't rule out any of these. You'll never know exactly and anything anyone posts here is pure speculation which I think is not helpful. He became seriously ill, was taken to a hospital, died there, was certified as a natural death and has since been cremated. Most likely it was a natural death (among other things, murderers don't usually bring their victims to a hospital) and none of us will ever be able to say for sure. Leave it be.

[BigC]

I would treat this very carefully and try not to let emotions get into it

There shall be 40 per cent tax death duty

Also I would contact a Thai lawyer to get a copy of your husbands bank details

See if there were any transactions after his death or in a part of the country where you husband could not have possibly been

If you can prove she assisted his death then the inheritance shall not be valid.

Intact if he used his card from your country then you can check transactions with the bank from your own country

You need to check his bank for suspicious activity

You really need to seek a lawyer

If I am not correct I can imagine his wife has contact with a lawyer already and is working on how to obtain these assets

Be care full about coming to Thailand until u know what happened as it might be dangerous if the worst case synario has happened

Wish you the best of luck

[7by7]

I am sorry for your loss.

I haven't read all the posts as, to be frank, the usual suspects are out in force using this as an opportunity to deride all Thais and make unfounded accusations and judgments. It does seem, though, that among the dross is some sound advice; such as see a solicitor in the UK if you wish to contest the will.

Who did he appoint as his executors? You should speak to them as well. At the very least they should notify his bank of his death and so stop all withdrawals until probate.

hmm... then...

-- his last will said, granny has to move out, in case he dies

-- he didnt say, he wishes to be buried in the UK...

the father was healthy and signed at a notary, who is obliged by law to explain the consequences of the will...

this post has made us think. why would the solicitor not say to my dad, hang on youve promised money you havent got, that means the house will have to be sold, ...we should include a 'caveat' in case you die before your mother. Surely thats the solicitors job? i would think.

He didn't promise money he didn't have; he left her his house in his will.

If there is a sitting tenant in there, your grandmother, then she will either have to get a court order to evict her; very difficult, sell the house with her still living in it or wait until she dies or moves out before she sells it.

However, if you think he was poorly advised by his UK solicitor, you can seek redress through the Legal Ombudsman. if in England or Wales, the The Scottish Legal Complaints Commission or the Law Society of Northern Ireland.

[7by7]

A post with off topic derogatory generalizations has been removed as well as replies.

And another one.

[cdnmatt]

Something doesn't add up here. You come in here accusing your dad's Thai wife of murdering him for money, then a couple pages later basically say, "well, maybe she deserves the money, because she was with him for 8 year".

If she murdered your dad, then........

[canuckoverseas]

Notouchmonkey

I am so sorry to hear of your loss ,i do not know what happened to your dad and would not like to guess ,but after a long life i have learnt one thing and its something my dad drummed into me "trust nobody" now i am not talking about close familly, but be afraid when somebody says trust me ,be very afraid!!

Again so sorry for your loss ,i know my daughter will be devastated when i go .

Words of wisdom.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[Johnniey]

i know it may not seem like it but actually i am keen to try and understand the situation and the motivations of his wife. there is a big cultural divide and i am beginning to understand that abject poverty is a very real motivation for the actions of some ladies in thailand. there has to be some compassion for that.

I think you can tell from the ATM card use her motives (and the fact he met her in a bar in Pattaya).

Greed and avarice.

But she was with him for 8 years, so maybe she is entitled.

First, sorry for your loss.

Second, maybe you should understand exactly what a Pattaya bar girl is and their motives.

Abject poverty is NOT the usual reason - it is laziness and a criminal, conniving mind.

She was with him for 8 years - so what - she should get nothing. The man's REAL family should get it all.

Get a lawyer and contest the will and STRESS that she was penniless prostitute before she hooked your Dad and tricked him, and maybe/probably aided his death. It's so important you get her convicted as these women are greedy and she'll be back down to Pattaya to hook another old guy.

Why on earth do these men change their wills so that their REAL families get nothing? It really baffles me.

I've been living here for 20 years and heard of similar circumstances - there was one guy given some kind of insecticide in his food every day, who coincidentally had breathing problems.

Fight her ALL the way.There is a saying they have in my local area, which translates to something like - Find a foreigner and take him for all he's worth.

Good Luck

[Soutpeel]

i know it may not seem like it but actually i am keen to try and understand the situation and the motivations of his wife. there is a big cultural divide and i am beginning to understand that abject poverty is a very real motivation for the actions of some ladies in thailand. there has to be some compassion for that.

I think you can tell from the ATM card use her motives (and the fact he met her in a bar in Pattaya).

Greed and avarice.

But she was with him for 8 years, so maybe she is entitled.

First, sorry for your loss.

Second, maybe you should understand exactly what a Pattaya bar girl is and their motives.

Abject poverty is NOT the usual reason - it is laziness and a criminal, conniving mind.

She was with him for 8 years - so what - she should get nothing. The man's REAL family should get it all.

Get a lawyer and contest the will and STRESS that she was penniless prostitute before she hooked your Dad and tricked him, and maybe/probably aided his death. It's so important you get her convicted as these women are greedy and she'll be back down to Pattaya to hook another old guy.

Why on earth do these men change their wills so that their REAL families get nothing? It really baffles me.

I've been living here for 20 years and heard of similar circumstances - there was one guy given some kind of insecticide in his food every day, who coincidentally had breathing problems.

Fight her ALL the way.There is a saying they have in my local area, which translates to something like - Find a foreigner and take him for all he's worth.

Good Luck

Based on some of the venom in this post....how much did your ex get you for ?

Edited August 1, 2012 by Soutpeel

[Johnniey]

i know it may not seem like it but actually i am keen to try and understand the situation and the motivations of his wife. there is a big cultural divide and i am beginning to understand that abject poverty is a very real motivation for the actions of some ladies in thailand. there has to be some compassion for that.

I think you can tell from the ATM card use her motives (and the fact he met her in a bar in Pattaya).

Greed and avarice.

But she was with him for 8 years, so maybe she is entitled.

First, sorry for your loss.

Second, maybe you should understand exactly what a Pattaya bar girl is and their motives.

Abject poverty is NOT the usual reason - it is laziness and a criminal, conniving mind.

She was with him for 8 years - so what - she should get nothing. The man's REAL family should get it all.

Get a lawyer and contest the will and STRESS that she was penniless prostitute before she hooked your Dad and tricked him, and maybe/probably aided his death. It's so important you get her convicted as these women are greedy and she'll be back down to Pattaya to hook another old guy.

Why on earth do these men change their wills so that their REAL families get nothing? It really baffles me.

I've been living here for 20 years and heard of similar circumstances - there was one guy given some kind of insecticide in his food every day, who coincidentally had breathing problems.

Fight her ALL the way.There is a saying they have in my local area, which translates to something like - Find a foreigner and take him for all he's worth.

Good Luck

Based on some of the venom in this post....how much did your ex get you for ?

I dont. have an ex. This wofr is my first and last

Venom ? I don't understand. Do you have will by any chance? Do you have children in your home country?

I know guys that even give preference in financial matters to their step kids , who have total no respect for them.

I've known many guys that selfishly abandoned their responsibilities in the West but this isn't the place to discuss this. let's. try yo let the op know the facts about pattaya bar girls

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Edited August 1, 2012 by Johnniey

[Mosha]

I believe that it is normal to name an executor when making a will. Quite probably the executor would be the solicitor that your Father used to make the will. The executor will be reponsible for selling the property and distributing the money after deducting expenses and fees.

From what you say, over a 3 month period, your Father made a will and then changed it twice, with more benefit going to the wife. The wife accompanied him when he visited the solicitor. You may have a case for challenging the will due to "Undue influence"

http://legal-diction...undue influence

Talk to a solicitor, obviously not the one who drew up the will.

that was a really helpful post thank you v. much indeed.

Sorry to hear about your dad. For what it's worth. If you talk to the Citizens Advice Bureau. They will fix you up with a chat with a solicitor. The 1st 30mins (I think) are free.

[ggold]

I'm not sure where to start here, but perhaps to give a little background. My father met a pattaya bar girl 8 years ago, she is much younger than himself (she was 32, he was 62) . Dad came home, she rang him a month later telling him 'my mums gotta have an operation i need money'. dad paid her some money then. he visited her again and they beacme a 'regular thing'. Eventually they moved to her local village down in the south and he built a house on her mums land, fitted it out, got air con, bought a car, etc etc. I visited 'the farm' as he affectionately called it ( i was more inclined to call it a swamp) 3 times over the last few years. As one of his grown up daughters i wrestled with his choices, as i am sure he did with mine over the years, but eventually came to terms with the whole thing. this was dads 3rd marriage, he certainly beleived in enjoying life, but he was wary of women generally and told me once he was sometimes wary of his wife and family, he said he only just trusted her 'so far' he said he would never give her his pin numbers.

to cut to the chase Dad married his wife last summer mainly so she could get the visa to come here for 3 months, it all went very well, we supported dad when other members of the family gave him and wife a difficult time. whilst here he visited a solicitor 3 times to make a will. the first two times, the basic premise was, wife gets everything in thailand, daughters get everything in uk. At the last appointment, his wife accompanied him and it was changed to 'wife gets everything in thailand + 40,000- daughters are the resudual beneficiaries' He didnt have 40k i might add, so this money would come from the sale of the uk property in which his elderly mother lives. Well dad goes back to thailand and within 10 days is dead. We dont really know why, except that he went to hospital with breathing problems. his UK GP, was surprised, having recently seen him and found him to be in good health. by the time my sister and me arrived in thailand, he was embalmed and sealed in a box in the garden. we then watched as the wife visited the cashpoint everyday for our 16 days visit and used his cashpoint cards to take the limit everyday. (she told us he gave her the pin so she could pay the hospital bill) So, what am i asking here?

1] i think his death is suspicious but i also know that bugger all we can do about it, but it would be interesting to get other views.

2] are me and my sister morally OR legally entitled to contest his uk will.

3] we dont want to sell the house to pay the wife cos we will have to evict our elderly gran, do you think wife will agree to wait for the money?

4] if we contest the will, do you think the wife will fight us legally?

Reading between the lines, re the property, I would hope there is a clause thats says nothing can be done with the house as long as your gran is alive? Someone needs to apply for probate over your late fathers assets, there may even be someone mentioned within the will as to who that might be. If its the solicitor you could leave it with him, but then he will follow the will. Better to apply fo probate as soon as possible, you will need the death certificate for that. Also you can apply for the probate yourself, no need to use a solicitor especially the one that drew up the will.

Now the reason I say that is that once probate is obtained, it is up to the executor of the will as to how that will is executed, you can indeed change the will as executor of that will. So while you may have lost money out of the bank, the Thai wife cannot get her hands on any other assets. Also you can inform the banks of your fathers death, they will then cancel all cards and freeze the accounts. One thought though, if the wife has used any credit cards then your fathers estate will have to repay the money. YOU MUST FREEZE ALL ACCOUNTS ASAP! NOW if you havent already.

You could also report the cards stolen, thinking about it if the cards were used here in Thailand after the date of death, then wether the wife knew pin numbers or not, it is debatable that she had authority to use them, it would be theft even under these circumstances. Because I would assume she would need to be named as a user of the cards with the credit company or bank. Dare I say the fact the will was changed so she would get 40000 on your fathers death, when the money is not there would be enough to contest the will, especially as she has raided the bank account before legally entitled to do so. It proves the gread of the wife to get her hands on the money.

Go see a neutral solicitor or citizens advice centre, they can confirm what I have said if you have any doubts!

Good luck

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Edited August 1, 2012 by ggold

[Berkshire]

i know it may not seem like it but actually i am keen to try and understand the situation and the motivations of his wife. there is a big cultural divide and i am beginning to understand that abject poverty is a very real motivation for the actions of some ladies in thailand. there has to be some compassion for that.

I think you can tell from the ATM card use her motives (and the fact he met her in a bar in Pattaya).

Greed and avarice.

But she was with him for 8 years, so maybe she is entitled.

First, sorry for your loss.

Second, maybe you should understand exactly what a Pattaya bar girl is and their motives.

Abject poverty is NOT the usual reason - it is laziness and a criminal, conniving mind.

She was with him for 8 years - so what - she should get nothing. The man's REAL family should get it all.

Just to play Devil's Advocate here....who's money are we talking about? Ahhhhh, it was the guy's money. So shouldn't HE decide who HE should give HIS money to? And let's be clear, there is zero evidence of foul play, as far as I can tell. Who knows...maybe the 8 years were the best years of his life. I don't think even the guy's "real" family (whatever that means) gets to decide what the man does with HIS money. Just saying...

[metisdead]

Comments on moderation have been removed.

[endure]

Now the reason I say that is that once probate is obtained, it is up to the executor of the will as to how that will is executed, you can indeed change the will as executor of that will.

The executor of a will cannot change the terms of that will. Their job is to execute the will as written. In order to change the terms of a will you need a Deed of Variation.

[ggold]

Now the reason I say that is that once probate is obtained, it is up to the executor of the will as to how that will is executed, you can indeed change the will as executor of that will.

The executor of a will cannot change the terms of that will. Their job is to execute the will as written. In order to change the terms of a will you need a Deed of Variation.

That is not entirely true. But as I have said, they should speak to a lawyer if in doubt!

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[harrry]

The will should have appointed an executor. If not it is up to the Next of Kinl....his wife to do so.

Executors who fail to follow the will face legal sanctions.