Housing Developments - Prices Are Too Crazy For Me

[BKK90210]

Are the farangs in and around Pattaya and Jomtien very rich?....Just curious

We just got back from the area after spent 3 weeks there looking for the future retirement properties. Looked at some of the development...like Siam Royal View...Paradise villa...Bhu tara...View Talay Marina...and even Baan Talay in Bang Saray.

Just couldn't believe the price they were asking for! Let's see the mininum average land price is about 22000 baths per sq. wah - no sea view..unbelievable! I thought View Talay Marina is so expensive, but Baan Talay land price is out of wack!(50-150 mil baths per sq wah - just for the land only)

Is this real current market price?...Or am I just dreaming?

Here I thought my budget of 11 mil baths for land and house is reasonable...but I guess now is just a pasting dream of mine to live in the area with some sea view after all!

Just a question. Are these high end / luxury developments have any buyers at all?...Who're these buyers?.... Most of them seem to be sitting empty with only a few buildings up and the rest is just the empty bare lands.

Any thoughts?

Edited January 18, 2006 by BKK90210

[Rimmer]

Most of us don’t have sea views unless one has been here a long time. In fact I believe there are no landed sea views for 11m baht anymore not this side of Bang Saray at least, you can buy nice a condo for that though with stunning sea views.

Methinks you are maybe looking at some very expensive overpriced property that you would have to be severley financialy silly to want to retire to. Where got sea view in VTM except right on the dock?

VT Marina is very nice but gossly overpriced for what it is, I turned that down 2 years ago when they were priced at 10m as being way too small a land area.

Indeed anything the sea side of the highway is pretty expensive and this goes for stuff as far down as Bang Saray , but having said that for 11m baht you can buy a very nice 3 bedroom villa’s in View Tallay Villa’s or Jomtien Park Villa’s and walk to visit the sea maybe.

Typically land prices in Jomtien were 25,000 TW four or five years ago and now about 40,000 to 50,000 depending on location, absolute madness!!

I know this for fact I bought back then.

Or you can buy 1 rai of Land on Phoenix for 3.5m with stunning views and build a 5m baht palace. Know which I prefer! Land prices outside of Phoenix are around 1m to 1.5 depending on location but it is sometimes quite hard to find 1 rai lots.

No sea views there either but stunning views all the same. Some plots on Phoenix do look at the sea but they are priced at around 15000 per TW.

Prices around Hue Yai are a little less at 800,000 a rai with smaller plots available.

You could also spend 4 m baht on one of the very nice developments just across the other side of the highway opposite Lotus or off Wat Hue Yai Road go see www.dhewee.com they are offering charming 3 bedroom Thai style houses on 100 tw for 3.5m to 4.5m close to the new sports stadium. Ideal for retirement.

Best bet if you have not already done so, is to truck on down to Foodland and pick up a copy of Pattaya Trader, there are all kinds of stunning houses in there from 3m baht with swimming pools. With maids rooms, car ports, with security without security. The list goes on……..

But sea views, eee tha’ll be lucky lad!!

[thebounder]

Are the farangs in and around Pattaya and Jomtien very rich?....Just curious

We just got back from the area after spent 3 weeks there looking for the future retirement properties. Looked at some of the development...like Siam Royal View...Paradise villa...Bhu tara...View Talay Marina...and even Baan Talay in Bang Saray.

Just couldn't believe the price they were asking for! Let's see the mininum average land price is about 22000 baths per sq. wah - no sea view..unbelievable! I thought View Talay Marina is so expensive, but Baan Talay land price is out of wack!(50-150 mil baths per sq wah - just for the land only)

Is this real current market price?...Or am I just dreaming?

Here I thought my budget of 11 mil baths for land and house is reasonable...but I guess now is just a pasting dream of mine to live in the area with some sea view after all!

Just a question. Are these high end / luxury developments have any buyers at all?...Who're these buyers?.... Most of them seem to be sitting empty with only a few buildings up and the rest is just the empty bare lands.

Any thoughts?

A guy I know has just bought three rai of sea view land in Bang Saray and he is going to develop, I think, three houses on there. If you would like to speak to him, PM me and I will put you in touch.

[Patex]

Sea view?

After a half year you will recognize the sea only when there is a Tsunami... If you are too near to the ocean you will be bored from the dashing of the waves and you also can watch your place rot in lightspeed.

Think about it, it isn't worth the money!

Patex

[edh]

Pattaya - tsunami???? Are you living on a wood boat??

Prices are going up due to the building boom. It will surely calm down in a year or two I guess. But then again if some of the neighbouring (spell??) asian friends have some to spare (usually a lot) prices will remain.

Check out Cambodia or Vietnam, prices still in range - that means Thailand 15 yars ago or so..

I'm not an expert but this is what I have heard.

Good luck

Sea view?

After a half year you will recognize the sea only when there is a Tsunami... If you are too near to the ocean you will be bored from the dashing of the waves and you also can watch your place rot in lightspeed.

Think about it, it isn't worth the money!

Patex

[astral]

I have a 5 bedroom bungalow (single level) on an estate in Sri Racha.

No sea view, just rural.

I value it at 4.5 million.

Sorry I do not remember the land area.

Not quite Pattaya, just up the road. Does this help?

Edited January 19, 2006 by astral

[gharknes]

Are the farangs in and around Pattaya and Jomtien very rich?....Just curious

We just got back from the area after spent 3 weeks there looking for the future retirement properties. Looked at some of the development...like Siam Royal View...Paradise villa...Bhu tara...View Talay Marina...and even Baan Talay in Bang Saray.

Just couldn't believe the price they were asking for! Let's see the mininum average land price is about 22000 baths per sq. wah - no sea view..unbelievable! I thought View Talay Marina is so expensive, but Baan Talay land price is out of wack!(50-150 mil baths per sq wah - just for the land only)

Is this real current market price?...Or am I just dreaming?

Here I thought my budget of 11 mil baths for land and house is reasonable...but I guess now is just a pasting dream of mine to live in the area with some sea view after all!

Just a question. Are these high end / luxury developments have any buyers at all?...Who're these buyers?.... Most of them seem to be sitting empty with only a few buildings up and the rest is just the empty bare lands.

Any thoughts?

They are ripping people off, these jacked up prices are a typical western style con mentality, if you get one company or a consortium of co=op companies they will do price setting, these properties are beeing priced way beyond any resonable margin, it is western greed, but you get the idiots that don't know any better buying because they don't realise they are being ripped off, they will realise in a couple of years when the prices are driven down by saturation and low demand, it is not fair to build a property for 700,000baht and try to sell it for 7 million but that is the kind off thing that is going on. These crooks are playing on the fact that most people don't realise how cheap it is to build here. My figure may not be exactly right but you get the idea. Price fixing is common in many industries, people look around see all the prices in the same bracket and assume that must be the going rate and pay. Unfortunately these companies are getting rich quick and can buy up land holding a monopoly on the market, this will end when buyers realise they are being ripped off and the buying will stop forcing prices down, the loosers are those that have already bought.

People in the realestate business don't bother replying to me please.

Edited January 19, 2006 by gharknes

[BKK90210]

They are ripping people off, these jacked up prices are a typical western style con mentality, if you get one company or a consortium of co=op companies they will do price setting, these properties are beeing priced way beyond any resonable margin, it is western greed, but you get the idiots that don't know any better buying because they don't realise they are being ripped off, they will realise in a couple of years when the prices are driven down by saturation and low demand, it is not fair to build a property for 700,000baht and try to sell it for 7 million but that is the kind off thing that is going on. These crooks are playing on the fact that most people don't realise how cheap it is to build here. My figure may not be exactly right but you get the idea. Price fixing is common in many industries, people look around see all the prices in the same bracket and assume that must be the going rate and pay. Unfortunately these companies are getting rich quick and can buy up land holding a monopoly on the market, this will end when buyers realise they are being ripped off and the buying will stop forcing prices down, the loosers are those that have already bought.

People in the realestate business don't bother replying to me please.

I totally agreed! They are ripping people off! But how could those buyers, with a little bit of common sense, not knowing they're being scam into buying it? As far as I can see there're not enough amenities or strong local economy to support that kind of price range. Yes, there are a few beaches, but not spectacular enough to draw in many of those rich tourists. Most of these developements are own by Bangkonian who had no idea about the concept of market analysis.

In addition, I have no problem with the interior finishing and workmanship, there're generally great. But as for the actual construction - the bone of the house - when I looked into some of these new houses, and found the constructions are pretty lacking in engineering principle - there is a great need for these to have an on-site engineer for inspection or someone qualified enough to oversee those works. I wouldn't not be able to sleep at night without my eyes and ears open for any unforseen things!

Just my thoughts

Edited January 20, 2006 by BKK90210

[johnnyk]

[

...it is not fair to build a property for 700,000baht and try to sell it for 7 million but that is the kind off thing that is going on.

Not fair?

Somebody go get mummy to sort this out!

If it cost 700K and is asking 7 million so what? Nobody is obliged to pay it.

If someone does pay it, its because he thinks 7 million is a fair price for it.

Its not fair for Starbucks to make coffee for 9 cents and sell it for $2 either.

[haha]

I also don't like the prices going up. and I used to get upset with it all.

but on reflection, I realized it is all part of "supply and demand." capitalism.

yes, you could call it a scam.

but then, the process has happened so many times in the past, if you studied the trend, you will realize it happens all the time.

personally, I've seen it happened in hong kong, china, and even in the united states.

..in particular, hawaii where the japanese came in and bought big a while back.

I'm sure what happened in hawaii was some profit miinded japanese guy marketed the property there as the "chance of a lifetime" to japanese folks who didn't understand the current prices there. they bought at prices that they were comfortable with. ..even though the prices were out of line with the going rate before they came in.

the same arguments.

what happened in hong kong, china, and in the united states - will happen in thailand.

my 2 cents.

[naka]

No problem, just wait for the next crash with a handfull of ready cash.

Oh. and while you're at it buy their Merc.

Naka.

[haha]

No problem, just wait for the next crash with a handfull of ready cash.

Oh. and while you're at it buy their Merc.

Naka.

yes. you understand.

back in 1998, I had the opportunity to buy the biggest condo unit at the park beach condo near naklua 16 for 1.8 million baht. and the exchange rate back then was about 46 to 1. this condo unit was about 400 sq.meters in size. the balcony in one of the rooms was about half the size of a typical hotel room.

did I buy, you ask? no, I didn't. ....a missed opportunity.

I don't know what the current asking rates are, but a few years ago, I went there with a friend and saw a smaller unit asking for about 15 million baht.

..ugh!

live and learn.

[BKK90210]

Ok... below is the opinion from my hubby about the general construction - based on visual observation - and ....we wouldn't want to name the name of these developments.......

QUOTE>

My personal opinion as a structural engineer about residential building construction in Thailand - base on what I saw in Jomtien city (6 developments at beginning of 2006) and in price range between 12 mil to 20 mil bath.

The construction method in Thailand is reinforced concrete post and beam. The wall is made of with stack of red brick or CMU (concrete masonry unit). In some project I do not see footings or grade beams supporting those wall. Although the wall is not bearing wall (supporting wall), the weight of redbrick or CMU is quite heavy and when soil is not properly compacted – cracking on the wall will occur.

ABOUT THE WALL

They place vertical rebar and horizontal rebar in the wall. Note there is a dimple with round hole – about 1.5” diameter - in the middle of brick. Horizontal rebars are place at 2.5 feet spacing. Therefore grout has to travel for 2.5 feet down inside 1.5” hole with rebar in it and this occur every 2 feet on center. Question – how to be sure all hole with rebar will be filled with grout completely in all the walls?

I wonder why Thai do not put mortar at the head (vertical joint) of brick– I see they put a thin mortar on the bed joint. Wait - I got it – they assume when they plaster the wall, the vertical joint will got filled – smart !

In other development they just place light weight solid concrete block (of course with mortar) between reinforce concrete column and call it good.

ABOUT THE ROOF

Steel truss (light gauge material) is being weld at the site (not in shop). Question - how good is the welder and how reliable is the weld material.

The top of interior wall is not supported laterally – good thing Jomtien is not in earthquake zone.

ABOUT THE SOIL

At the time – the weather is dry and I do not want to spit on soil and rub them between my fingers. Do not want to embarrass the realtor. Clay is very hard when is dry but soupy when mixed with water.

I do not see back-hoe or front-end-loader to back fill under the slab and vibrator for soil compaction – I see a few people using rotan basket and feet to level and compact soil – I hope only at a housekeeper quater. Question – how to ensure soil proper compaction under the slab floor (8 inches lift with machine compacted)? What if after 5 years your granite tile start cracking or your swimming pool start dripping?

ABOUT THE FOUNDATION

It appears the footing of each column has the same diameter – one size fit all? What about the depth of footing?

There is no consistency between each developer – some have grade beam to support the wall and some has very thin footing (about 3” thick which is too thin to be called a footing or they just try to level the dirt).

MY OPINION

I will not buy the building if I can not see the blue print from the engineer and to inspect how contractor built the structure. Where is the insulation at the roof, wall and floor? What about double pane glass for door and window with low-e to reflect the SUN. For 20 million bath – that is a lot of money but they do have a very nice architectural display and come with a pool, garden and air conditioners.

Have any buyer ever consider monsoon in Thailand? – proper grading for water run-off at your own property? What about water run-off from your beloved it neighbors or other development above your house? What if the developer cut corner and change the storm drainage pipe to smaller one in order to save money? – it happen in US and it could happen in Thailand. Ever consider water driven by rain hitting your stucco wall, window and door? By the way, how about water and sewer or septic? How far the water well with respect to septic drain field?

Completion of new airport – hopefully will fulfill the developer dream price.

If someone told you that the structure is okay but you do not think so – have an experience local structure engineer (40 to 55 yrs old) or the original engineer that made the blue print to verify the condition and ask the recommendation – do not believe solely on what developer / builder said.

I was wondering if using ICF (insulated concrete form) system with concrete pump truck will be more cost effective – any comment ? along Sukumvit road about 30 minute south of Bangkok I see a lot of concrete pump truck… and by the way who built those freeway especially at overpass or bridge? – where is I-TV ????

UNQUOTE>

[Digger]

For what its worth I think many of the new developments in and around Pattaya/Jomtien are overpriced and in questionable areas - Siam Royal View is an example of a seemingly nice project but its in such a bad area - its almost beyond belief - there is nothing of any merit in that area and the idea of living in a 10-20 million baht place while next door you have 600,000 baht thai houses for the poor masses would not inspire me to buy there. That just seems to go against the principle of getting the worst property in the best road. Having said that, they are selling so someone is clearly not concerned but it would not be me.

[gharknes]

[

...it is not fair to build a property for 700,000baht and try to sell it for 7 million but that is the kind off thing that is going on.

Not fair?

Somebody go get mummy to sort this out!

If it cost 700K and is asking 7 million so what? Nobody is obliged to pay it.

If someone does pay it, its because he thinks 7 million is a fair price for it.

Its not fair for Starbucks to make coffee for 9 cents and sell it for $2 either.

thanks you've made my point.

quote .....Nobody is obliged to pay it.....correct but some idiot will

quote .....because he thinks 7 million is a fair price for it.....yes he is being conned by crooks and you know it. I hope they all read this thread before handing money over.

a coffee at starbucks is not someones life savings

[two shoes]

Are the farangs in and around Pattaya and Jomtien very rich?....Just curious

We just got back from the area after spent 3 weeks there looking for the future retirement properties. Looked at some of the development...like Siam Royal View...Paradise villa...Bhu tara...View Talay Marina...and even Baan Talay in Bang Saray.

Just couldn't believe the price they were asking for! Let's see the mininum average land price is about 22000 baths per sq. wah - no sea view..unbelievable! I thought View Talay Marina is so expensive, but Baan Talay land price is out of wack!(50-150 mil baths per sq wah - just for the land only)

Is this real current market price?...Or am I just dreaming?

Here I thought my budget of 11 mil baths for land and house is reasonable...but I guess now is just a pasting dream of mine to live in the area with some sea view after all!

Just a question. Are these high end / luxury developments have any buyers at all?...Who're these buyers?.... Most of them seem to be sitting empty with only a few buildings up and the rest is just the empty bare lands.

Any thoughts?

Are the farangs in and around Pattaya and Jomtien very rich?....Just curious

We just got back from the area after spent 3 weeks there looking for the future retirement properties. Looked at some of the development...like Siam Royal View...Paradise villa...Bhu tara...View Talay Marina...and even Baan Talay in Bang Saray.

Just couldn't believe the price they were asking for! Let's see the mininum average land price is about 22000 baths per sq. wah - no sea view..unbelievable! I thought View Talay Marina is so expensive, but Baan Talay land price is out of wack!(50-150 mil baths per sq wah - just for the land only)

Is this real current market price?...Or am I just dreaming?

Here I thought my budget of 11 mil baths for land and house is reasonable...but I guess now is just a pasting dream of mine to live in the area with some sea view after all!

Just a question. Are these high end / luxury developments have any buyers at all?...Who're these buyers?.... Most of them seem to be sitting empty with only a few buildings up and the rest is just the empty bare lands.

Any thoughts?

why dont u try this web site www.nanokland-house .com ask for nok y pay more

[BKK90210]

For what its worth I think many of the new developments in and around Pattaya/Jomtien are overpriced and in questionable areas - Siam Royal View is an example of a seemingly nice project but its in such a bad area - its almost beyond belief - there is nothing of any merit in that area and the idea of living in a 10-20 million baht place while next door you have 600,000 baht thai houses for the poor masses would not inspire me to buy there. That just seems to go against the principle of getting the worst property in the best road. Having said that, they are selling so someone is clearly not concerned but it would not be me.

I have to agree...

The sale person told me the developer is Swiss+German company...with the German architect who couldn't speak to us because he can not speak English

And in addition...if you look carefully at the entrance gate...as you come in and go out....you will see clearly the temple school smacked across street from it. I think it's morally wrong..insensitive..and I would not be very comfortable using that entrance knowing I have so much and seeing this temple school with the kids and their families who have so little. I would definitely feel guilty and very uncomfortable self-concious to be confronted with this reality everyday!

Just my thought

OH..by the way...

The owner of this development (the Swiss one) is building this gigantic home covering 2 lots (the best 2 lots..ofcourse!). As we speak, it's just about half done. And why not? With the profit he will be making he could certainly afford it!

Edited January 20, 2006 by BKK90210

[oda561]

Hi All,

My wife and I are coming to Pattaya for a look/see in July.

Thinking of coming to live there on Retirement Visa.

Have been looking at various realty sites and seems you can buy a good house fully furnished 3 bedrroms/3 bathrooms for 3.5-5 Million Baht. We are not looking to live in mansions. Just nice comfortable home.

Lots of people say to us to rent for the first year to make sure this is what we want.

Dick Cooper

[barryofthailand]

Your best bet is when you come to Pattaya to retire, rent for a year. Look around, their are several opertunities to purchase at the two to three million baht range.

Are you married to a Thai? If not, you might want to look into a condo.

Barry