Thailand Officially Establishes Diplomatic Ties With Palestine

[harryfrompattaya]

Which Palestine government? The PLO one or the Hamas one? Or have they stopped blowing the sh*t out of each other and united now?

This will bring peace in South Thailand The Palestine could meditate between the 2 factions

[hellodolly]

that is good news...didn't expect that.

Indeed it is.

Don't know what Thailand has to offer but at least they can now have a dialog on issues that might be of benefit to both countries.

Perhaps they could act as a intermediary for the states.

[cup-O-coffee]

Bringing attention to issues like this is the only way human kind will ever get to the bottom of the truth. This is certainly not a bad move and might help add more light to an issue that has festered for thousands of years, and that has not been handled well by those who say they have a claim over the situation. It matters not to me, but again, it certainly won't hurt to bring more attention to matters that are being covered up by politics and propaganda. A lot of decent folk, who simply want to live a life of well-being right where they are now at could benefit, and the ones who are trying to stop this from happening might eventually reconsider things.

[metisdead]

Another post commenting on moderation has been removed.

Comment on moderation has been removed as per forum rule 21:

http://www.thaivisa....tion=boardrules

Additional off topic posts have been removed.

[Morch]

Bringing attention to issues like this is the only way human kind will ever get to the bottom of the truth. This is certainly not a bad move and might help add more light to an issue that has festered for thousands of years, and that has not been handled well by those who say they have a claim over the situation. It matters not to me, but again, it certainly won't hurt to bring more attention to matters that are being covered up by politics and propaganda. A lot of decent folk, who simply want to live a life of well-being right where they are now at could benefit, and the ones who are trying to stop this from happening might eventually reconsider things.

"thousands of years"?

[geriatrickid]

A place can usually be recognized as a state by any country that so chooses to recognize it.

Some countries recognize Taiwan as a country, others don't.

With all the billions of $$ and Euros given to the PA where are the hospitals, the schools, the social services, and basic human rights?

Gaza has been under the control of Hamas for how many years, and despite the chronic whining that Israel oppresses the residents, the border has been open on the Egyptian side for years. And now with a pro Hamas government in Egypt, there should be no border issues with Egypt, right? The local arabs want a state, but are unwilling to observe the most basic requirements of a state, and Thailand recognizes the PA and Hamas as a state. Lovely.

Get back to me when Hamas and the PA can function without trying to kill each other.

On a positive note, when Hamas launches its rockets into Israel and kills/wounds Thai nationals, as has happened before, the Thai government can lodge a diplomatic protest.

The fun will start when the Palestinian ambassador presents his credentials to the head of state. It will be interesting to see who accepts those credentials.

Aid to the PA has gone through some changes over the years. Granted that corruption was a huge problem, better control measures nowadays, and situation does seem to be improving on certain issues.

As for Gaza - the border with Egypt was not "open for years". There were very strict restriction in place - both for people and goods. With the change in government, this is indeed supposed to change.

Thailand recognized the PA, not the Hamas.

One small but crucial weakness in your statement;

The recognition came on Jan. 20, 2012. This is an upgrade of diplomatic relations. The fact is that Thailand only recognizes "a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders." That would include Gaza and hence a defacto recognition of Hamas. The fact remains, as to who represents this Palestinian state. Hamas or Fatah?

Basically, Palestine is two substates. One the former Egyptian territory which historically was never inhabited by "Palestinian" arabs and the former territory that was formerly Israel, occupied by the Ottoman Empire, then assumed by the British, then ceded by the British to Jordan, then regained by Israel in 1967 and then signed over by the Jordanians to the PA. It is a state with undefined borders and without distinguishing features of a state. In Gaza is a rightfully elected government that is aligned with terrorism and in Judea/Samaria or West Bank (depending on what one calls it) is an administration that has no electoral mandate to govern, and at best is a kleptocracy. Lovely diplomatic situation. Thailand cannot take a position on the borders for the simple fact that it may set a precedent in respect to its own disputed southern region which has a similar history of occupation and ceding.

Putting aside one's views on the Israeli- Arab disputes, it doesn't take a genius to see that Thailand has to tread carefully lest it cause itself internal problems. In the event that the southern conflict zones ever declare independence, Thailand may have a bit of payback.

Edited August 5, 2012 by geriatrickid

[Scott]

So, who will appoint the ambassador?

[Johpa]

Bringing attention to issues like this is the only way human kind will ever get to the bottom of the truth. This is certainly not a bad move and might help add more light to an issue that has festered for thousands of years, and that has not been handled well by those who say they have a claim over the situation. It matters not to me, but again, it certainly won't hurt to bring more attention to matters that are being covered up by politics and propaganda. A lot of decent folk, who simply want to live a life of well-being right where they are now at could benefit, and the ones who are trying to stop this from happening might eventually reconsider things.

"thousands of years"?

Why yes of course. History is a never ending saga of migrations and relocations and dislocations and military victories and military defeats and the waning and waxing of political powers. It is pretty rare to find an indigenous group in control of their indigenous lands. The Thais themselves are relatively recent arrivals to the land within the borders of the Thai Kingdom, having been forced out of their native land by Han pressure from the north, the Han themselves being pressured southward at the time by Mongolian tribes. You will find relatively few Celts remaining in Britannia and you won't find a single Pict left in Caledonia nor find a living Sogdian nor Hittite on the planet. And more recent genetic studies indicate that these types of historical events began when modern Homo Sapians began to compete with Neanderthals after migrating out of Africa. So yes, what is current in the Levant has been happening since the dawn of history.

[Jim walker]

Well done Thailand civilised people around the world might even respect Thailand a little bit more now that they can stand up and be counted no need to wait for the nod from USA Jew lovers to establish diplomatic relationships with Palestine

[Morch]

A place can usually be recognized as a state by any country that so chooses to recognize it.

Some countries recognize Taiwan as a country, others don't.

With all the billions of $$ and Euros given to the PA where are the hospitals, the schools, the social services, and basic human rights?

Gaza has been under the control of Hamas for how many years, and despite the chronic whining that Israel oppresses the residents, the border has been open on the Egyptian side for years. And now with a pro Hamas government in Egypt, there should be no border issues with Egypt, right? The local arabs want a state, but are unwilling to observe the most basic requirements of a state, and Thailand recognizes the PA and Hamas as a state. Lovely.

Get back to me when Hamas and the PA can function without trying to kill each other.

On a positive note, when Hamas launches its rockets into Israel and kills/wounds Thai nationals, as has happened before, the Thai government can lodge a diplomatic protest.

The fun will start when the Palestinian ambassador presents his credentials to the head of state. It will be interesting to see who accepts those credentials.

Aid to the PA has gone through some changes over the years. Granted that corruption was a huge problem, better control measures nowadays, and situation does seem to be improving on certain issues.

As for Gaza - the border with Egypt was not "open for years". There were very strict restriction in place - both for people and goods. With the change in government, this is indeed supposed to change.

Thailand recognized the PA, not the Hamas.

One small but crucial weakness in your statement;

The recognition came on Jan. 20, 2012. This is an upgrade of diplomatic relations. The fact is that Thailand only recognizes "a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders." That would include Gaza and hence a defacto recognition of Hamas. The fact remains, as to who represents this Palestinian state. Hamas or Fatah?

Basically, Palestine is two substates. One the former Egyptian territory which historically was never inhabited by "Palestinian" arabs and the former territory that was formerly Israel, occupied by the Ottoman Empire, then assumed by the British, then ceded by the British to Jordan, then regained by Israel in 1967 and then signed over by the Jordanians to the PA. It is a state with undefined borders and without distinguishing features of a state. In Gaza is a rightfully elected government that is aligned with terrorism and in Judea/Samaria or West Bank (depending on what one calls it) is an administration that has no electoral mandate to govern, and at best is a kleptocracy. Lovely diplomatic situation. Thailand cannot take a position on the borders for the simple fact that it may set a precedent in respect to its own disputed southern region which has a similar history of occupation and ceding.

Putting aside one's views on the Israeli- Arab disputes, it doesn't take a genius to see that Thailand has to tread carefully lest it cause itself internal problems. In the event that the southern conflict zones ever declare independence, Thailand may have a bit of payback.

Recognizing Palestine as a state, in this case and previous cases, was preformed in relation to the Palestinian Authority. Same goes for the Palestinian efforts gaining further recognition by the UN. The Hamas is rarely involved, and most countries deal almost exclusively with the PA.

There are no Hamas/Gaza ambassadors around the world, just a handful of representatives in some Muslim countries. While the do have a foreign ministry of sorts, they did not make a real bid to replace the PA on this front.

As for long term implications..err TIT, isn't it? Rather doubt there's any real consideration of that sort of thing.

[Morch]

So, who will appoint the ambassador?

From the Palestinian side? the PA, of course. There could be a scenario where they end their internal strife with the Hamas, and a Hamas representative appointed foreign minister as part of the deal, but not very unlikely.

[Morch]

Bringing attention to issues like this is the only way human kind will ever get to the bottom of the truth. This is certainly not a bad move and might help add more light to an issue that has festered for thousands of years, and that has not been handled well by those who say they have a claim over the situation. It matters not to me, but again, it certainly won't hurt to bring more attention to matters that are being covered up by politics and propaganda. A lot of decent folk, who simply want to live a life of well-being right where they are now at could benefit, and the ones who are trying to stop this from happening might eventually reconsider things.

"thousands of years"?

Why yes of course. History is a never ending saga of migrations and relocations and dislocations and military victories and military defeats and the waning and waxing of political powers. It is pretty rare to find an indigenous group in control of their indigenous lands. The Thais themselves are relatively recent arrivals to the land within the borders of the Thai Kingdom, having been forced out of their native land by Han pressure from the north, the Han themselves being pressured southward at the time by Mongolian tribes. You will find relatively few Celts remaining in Britannia and you won't find a single Pict left in Caledonia nor find a living Sogdian nor Hittite on the planet. And more recent genetic studies indicate that these types of historical events began when modern Homo Sapians began to compete with Neanderthals after migrating out of Africa. So yes, what is current in the Levant has been happening since the dawn of history.

Thanks for the history lesson :-).

Not so clear as to what situation was festering for thousands of years and how Thailand's move, momentous as it is, helps shedding light on the truth (whatever that is).

[Morch]

Well done Thailand civilised people around the world might even respect Thailand a little bit more now that they can stand up and be counted no need to wait for the nod from USA Jew lovers to establish diplomatic relationships with Palestine

There are over 120 countries who recognized Palestine as a state. Thailand did not boldly go where no nation has gone before. Rather took their time.

Seriously doubt this will bring Thailand much international respect. Doesn't seem as if countries that do not recognize Palestine are less respected than others.

[geriatrickid]

Well done Thailand civilised people around the world might even respect Thailand a little bit more now that they can stand up and be counted no need to wait for the nod from USA Jew lovers to establish diplomatic relationships with Palestine

Jew lovers? Were you wearing your storm trooper outfit when you wrote that? Seriously, did you think about this before you typed it? The refusal of countries to grant diplomatic status is directly linked to the refusal of the PA/Hamas to negotiate in good faith. It has nothing to do with anyone loving people of the jewish religion.

Every time there is an agreement or a deal, the arabs renege. Remember the deal with Yasser Arafat that would have given statehood and almost everything that was demanded?

The fact is that the refusal to grant recognition is one of the last bargaining chips the civilised world has to get the arabs to the negotiating table.

What do you call the large bloc of Israelis willing to do whatever it takes to try and negotiate some sort of deal? There isn't going to be any peace deal as long as Syria and Iran are funding the groups opposed to any such deal. How can there be a deal when Hamas is still pledged to the destruction of Israel and Fatah has not amended its charter accordingly? I can't wait for the southern territories of Thailand to announce seccession. It will by quite an interesting turn of events.

[geriatrickid]

Well done Thailand civilised people around the world might even respect Thailand a little bit more now that they can stand up and be counted no need to wait for the nod from USA Jew lovers to establish diplomatic relationships with Palestine

There are over 120 countries who recognized Palestine as a state. Thailand did not boldly go where no nation has gone before. Rather took their time.

Seriously doubt this will bring Thailand much international respect. Doesn't seem as if countries that do not recognize Palestine are less respected than others.

Probably because the countries still holding out are the countries that are most generous when it comes to international aid and the respect of human rights.

[SIamYank]

Bringing attention to issues like this is the only way human kind will ever get to the bottom of the truth. This is certainly not a bad move and might help add more light to an issue that has festered for thousands of years, and that has not been handled well by those who say they have a claim over the situation. It matters not to me, but again, it certainly won't hurt to bring more attention to matters that are being covered up by politics and propaganda. A lot of decent folk, who simply want to live a life of well-being right where they are now at could benefit, and the ones who are trying to stop this from happening might eventually reconsider things.

"thousands of years"?

Why yes of course. History is a never ending saga of migrations and relocations and dislocations and military victories and military defeats and the waning and waxing of political powers. It is pretty rare to find an indigenous group in control of their indigenous lands. The Thais themselves are relatively recent arrivals to the land within the borders of the Thai Kingdom, having been forced out of their native land by Han pressure from the north, the Han themselves being pressured southward at the time by Mongolian tribes. You will find relatively few Celts remaining in Britannia and you won't find a single Pict left in Caledonia nor find a living Sogdian nor Hittite on the planet. And more recent genetic studies indicate that these types of historical events began when modern Homo Sapians began to compete with Neanderthals after migrating out of Africa. So yes, what is current in the Levant has been happening since the dawn of history.

Thanks for the history lesson :-).

Not so clear as to what situation was festering for thousands of years and how Thailand's move, momentous as it is, helps shedding light on the truth (whatever that is).

I agree... it seems as though Cup O Coffee's post was suggesting that The Palestinian/Israeli Conflict has been going on for "thousands" of years. This of course is absurd considering that the philosophy of Zionism was started less than 150 years ago. And it did not begin to be a political reality in Palestine until approx 100 years ago. And the creation of the Israeli state was not until 1948 (64 years ago) So yes... considerably less than "thousands" of years.

And while Johpa's history lesson is informative. Human history condensed to one paragraph on TV. Excellent work indeed.... It might also have one supposing that you could historically link a modern bar room brawl to prehistory fight of our ancestors over a cave fire.

Being an American who is opposed to Zionism, I have often gotten the idiotic argument.... " so I guess we should give America back to the Indians too!" All acts of modern barbarism could be excused by historical acts of barbarism. We could excuse Nazi Germany's attempt at ethnic cleansing too if we only cited all the other historical attempts of the same. But in Palestine we are faced with a modern problem and as members of the modern human race we can and do influence the outcomes of history through our actions.

I applaud Thailand for taking this action.... it does shed more light on the situation.

[MobileContent]

That'll please the Jews.

That occured to me as well, and indirectly Thai/US relations, as we all know about the relationship between Israel & US

I wonder is TAT have been advised...their tourism number and attracting quality tourist will take a hit...

Lets face it Israeli tourist do come to Thailand...how many Palestinians come to Thailand, dont have the money and Israel doesnt let them out the country anyway...

At least 20-30% of Israeli tourists are backpackers and another 20-30% are coming for business which leaves around another 50,000 inbound tourists from Israel. The US market is more important for Thailand with around 600,000 inbound tourists.

Medical tourism revenues from the UAE, Oman, Qatar and Bahrain outnumbers the Israeli tourists and American's and Israeli's are still happy to travel to Malta, Slovakia, Russia, Poland, Ireland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Turkey and of course India and China which all have a Palestinian embassy.

Well done Yingluck.

[Johpa]

Human history condensed to one paragraph on TV. Excellent work indeed.... It might also have one supposing that you could historically link a modern bar room brawl to prehistory fight of our ancestors over a cave fire....

Being an American who is opposed to Zionism, I have often gotten the idiotic argument.... " so I guess we should give America back to the Indians too!" All acts of modern barbarism could be excused by historical acts of barbarism. We could excuse Nazi Germany's attempt at ethnic cleansing too if we only cited all the other historical attempts of the same. But in Palestine we are faced with a modern problem and as members of the modern human race we can and do influence the outcomes of history through our actions.

I applaud Thailand for taking this action.... it does shed more light on the situation.

Oh please, I was simply commenting upon general historical population trends and not condensing history to a single paragraph. And your ridiculous analogy to a bar room incident is not even worth a response.

Then you would perhaps solve the modern irredentist problem in Southern Thailand by demanding the return of the southern provinces to Malaysia, being far more "modern than the Jews in the Levant also demanding the extraction of all PRC Chinese forces from Tibet, and demanding the forced return of all modern Tamil emigrants in Sri Lanka to the mainland. I mean there are similar "modern" historical problems in many places as the population tides of history that I noted in an earlier post roll on. So just exactly where do you draw the line as to what is a modern problem and what is an historical event? It is a rather slippery slope in the modern age where the rate of change has accelerated rather significantly.

Look, I don't agree with Israeli political policy and I don't agree with Palestinian political policy. I see both sides being in the wrong and I don't have the answer. But methinks, given my position, that others who pick one side or another are wrong too. Thailand recognizes both the Israeli and the Palestinian position,and although that action sheds no light whatsoever on the conundrum, Thailand has acted correctly.

[yoshiwara]

Well done Thailand civilised people around the world might even respect Thailand a little bit more now that they can stand up and be counted no need to wait for the nod from USA Jew lovers to establish diplomatic relationships with Palestine

When the anti-semitic mask slips those who profess to be purely anti-Zionist look away. The red-black alliance lives. As for the Thailand government's announcement they like nothing more than meaningless gesture politics and recognition of a state that does not exist is right on track.

[MobileContent]

I praise this decision by the Thai government. Extending a hand of friendship, peace and support to the Palestinian people. And I am sure that all Palestinian people appreciate such recognition.

Here is a map depicting those that have gone before Thailand in giving recognition to the Palestinian State. Good to see Thailand is up with modern times. Unlike some.

International recognition of the State of Palestine

http://en.wikipedia....ns_of_Palestine

Modern times. Haha, looks like Thailand just joined a delegation of all third world and communist countries going by that map. Not sure what is to be gained, but does show Yingluck out there working on something.

The world is more then just a couple of nations run by Caucasian's that have been long known in starting wars. (Germany, US, the UK etc.). Those countries just make a small percentage of the total population worldwide and third world countries have now even been ask to bailout the European.

[coma]

I praise this decision by the Thai government. Extending a hand of friendship, peace and support to the Palestinian people. And I am sure that all Palestinian people appreciate such recognition.

Here is a map depicting those that have gone before Thailand in giving recognition to the Palestinian State. Good to see Thailand is up with modern times. Unlike some.

International recognition of the State of Palestine

http://en.wikipedia....ns_of_Palestine

Modern times. Haha, looks like Thailand just joined a delegation of all third world and communist countries going by that map. Not sure what is to be gained, but does show Yingluck out there working on something.

The world is more then just a couple of nations run by Caucasian's that have been long known in starting wars. (Germany, US, the UK etc.). Those countries just make a small percentage of the total population worldwide and third world countries have now even been ask to bailout the European.

Right.

[yoshiwara]

Well done Thailand civilised people around the world might even respect Thailand a little bit more now that they can stand up and be counted no need to wait for the nod from USA Jew lovers to establish diplomatic relationships with Palestine

When the anti-semitic mask slips those who profess to be purely anti-Zionist look away. The red-black alliance lives. As for the Thailand government's announcement they like nothing more than meaningless gesture politics and recognition of a state that does not exist is right on track.

I should of course have referred to the red-brown alliance. My error. The reds like to paint themselves as a liberation movement, so the government's throwing of baubles to the aspirant left gives Thida and Co something to hang on to. As for my comment re the red-brown alliance we only have to remind ourselves of Thaksin's use of the anti-gay card in an attempt to whip up the reactionary farm constituency. As it is, the deafening silence from the supposedly anti-Zionists on this forum in the face of an openly anti-semitic contribution speaks volumes as to their inability and unwillingness to differentiate when push comes to shove. Shame on them.

[Scott]

A number of off-topic posts and replies have been deleted. Again, the thread is about the establishment of diplomatic relations between Palestine and Thailand. It is NOT about the Palestinian/Israeli difficulties, anti-semetism etc., etc..

[GiHadOrange]

I am curious if this move is a move toward getting back into the good graces of the Saudi's, since solving the murders or returning the stolen jewels doesn't look like it's ever going to happen?

What have Saudi's to do with Palestine?

Do you really think anyone on the Thai side involved in this step (diplomatic ties with Palestine) had the case of these stolen jewels in mind?

[GiHadOrange]

I praise this decision by the Thai government. Extending a hand of friendship, peace and support to the Palestinian people. And I am sure that all Palestinian people appreciate such recognition.

Here is a map depicting those that have gone before Thailand in giving recognition to the Palestinian State. Good to see Thailand is up with modern times. Unlike some.

International recognition of the State of Palestine

http://en.wikipedia....ns_of_Palestine

Modern times. Haha, looks like Thailand just joined a delegation of all third world and communist countries going by that map. Not sure what is to be gained, but does show Yingluck out there working on something.

It is indeed modern times.

Guess your are from one of the few countries that are still grey on that map, like Myanmar for example. Countries of the other side of history. Some say they are the past.

[simple1]

I am curious if this move is a move toward getting back into the good graces of the Saudi's, since solving the murders or returning the stolen jewels doesn't look like it's ever going to happen?

What have Saudi's to do with Palestine?

Do you really think anyone on the Thai side involved in this step (diplomatic ties with Palestine) had the case of these stolen jewels in mind?

A great deal - it's a news feed from 2011, but will give you the general idea,

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestory/2011/09/201191572148909656.html

[GiHadOrange]

I am curious if this move is a move toward getting back into the good graces of the Saudi's, since solving the murders or returning the stolen jewels doesn't look like it's ever going to happen?

What have Saudi's to do with Palestine?

Do you really think anyone on the Thai side involved in this step (diplomatic ties with Palestine) had the case of these stolen jewels in mind?

A great deal - it's a news feed from 2011, but will give you the general idea,

http://www.aljazeera...2148909656.html

Minor issue for the Saudis.

What they (the Saudis) saw as that Obama turned his back to Mubarak and let him down was a much greater deal for them.

This (diplomatic ties Thai- Palestine) isn't about scoring brownie points in the Arab world and certainly not about some stolen jewels.

You might come for a country where foreign policy works that or similar ways. But i am pretty sure that isn't the case for Thailand. Almost insulting to suggest that.

[simple1]

I am curious if this move is a move toward getting back into the good graces of the Saudi's, since solving the murders or returning the stolen jewels doesn't look like it's ever going to happen?

What have Saudi's to do with Palestine?

Do you really think anyone on the Thai side involved in this step (diplomatic ties with Palestine) had the case of these stolen jewels in mind?

A great deal - it's a news feed from 2011, but will give you the general idea,

http://www.aljazeera...2148909656.html

Minor issue for the Saudis.

What they (the Saudis) saw as that Obama turned his back to Mubarak and let him down was a much greater deal for them.

This (diplomatic ties Thai- Palestine) isn't about scoring brownie points in the Arab world and certainly not about some stolen jewels.

You might come for a country where foreign policy works that or similar ways. But i am pretty sure that isn't the case for Thailand. Almost insulting to suggest that.

I'm sure Saudi Arabia has some higher priorities than the Palestinians, but would still be on their to do list for using them as proxies in the bigger picture.

Who knows what goes on behind closed doors in international diplomacy. However, from history we do know their are some truly morally & ethically corrupt decisions made. You or anyone else on this forum cannot empirically state the political/international relationship drivers on why the Thai government made this decision, no matter what the government has said in the public domain. However, it's interesting to debate possible scenarios

Edited August 10, 2012 by simple1

[coma]

I praise this decision by the Thai government. Extending a hand of friendship, peace and support to the Palestinian people. And I am sure that all Palestinian people appreciate such recognition.

Here is a map depicting those that have gone before Thailand in giving recognition to the Palestinian State. Good to see Thailand is up with modern times. Unlike some.

International recognition of the State of Palestine

http://en.wikipedia....ns_of_Palestine

Modern times. Haha, looks like Thailand just joined a delegation of all third world and communist countries going by that map. Not sure what is to be gained, but does show Yingluck out there working on something.

It is indeed modern times.

Guess your are from one of the few countries that are still grey on that map, like Myanmar for example. Countries of the other side of history. Some say they are the past.

I too am originally from one of those grey countries and I am ashamed of our governments policy on Palestine and their support for Israel for what I believe to be based purely on finacial benefit and following the their own kind like a lost sheep. Alot of people say Thailand is slow but it appeares that they are moving in the right direction quicker than the so called 'modern, world leading countries' by acknowledging Palestine as a state. In time the rest of the world [ except Israel] will follow Thailand by making the same acknowledgment. God willing. إن شاء الله