Invention Patent For Jet Ski Sidecar

[Wes Turner]

Since September 14th I have been working on conceptual designs for a jet ski sidecar who I hope to develop here in Thailand, either in Jomtien or Samui where I am currently on holiday but may relocate to at the end of the year.

I have patanted the idea under my name (not Wes Turner, that's a nick for this forum and a play on 'westerner') and submitted my designs to Kawasaki and Sea Doo, the leading name in jetskis.

Some fellow expats I have spoken to about the idea were unable to take it seriously and many laughed at me, so I ask anyone who thinks this is a dumb idea to consider the rescue potential of a carbon fibre detachable stretcher, don't sound so silly now does it.

Jet skis could reach the scene of an accident or drowning woman much faster than a boat could, and the attachable 'car' would allow riders to take double the amount of passengers, fathers with families for example.

I have a long way to go yet but have several thousand of my own dollars to put into the project before I start looking for investors and sponsors which I will need for marketing and advertising costs.

But what I want to know is, how safe would the idea be from the Thai copycats out to make a profit from MY idea?

[simon43]

Well, in my own view, you would have zero protection from Thai copycats!! Why?? Because regardless of how stringent Thai copyright/patent law is, you are not Thai and they are. And if you start to get into a legal argument with a Thai copycatter, you need to worry more about your own personal safety, rather than worrying about your invention!!

Sorry, but I think it is madness to engage in any business in Thailand which could be competing with a Thai business. And if a Thai goes and steals your idea, then you are competing with them!!

This is Thailand - still the wild west I'm afraid.....

Simon

[Upcountry]

Thai family and I are off to the workshed now. Thanks for the idea!

Just kidding, but it's best to keep an invention idea under your hat no matter where you live until you have a proper patent.

UC

[phuketsiam]

why does it need to be a side car, it would slow down the jet ski and alter its handling, why not attach an inflatable to the jet ski, with a gas bottle to instantly inflate it at the scene, after the jet ski has arrived having travelled at full speed with no extra drag and minimum extra weight, you can copy that idea if you like, if its any good

[soic]

Copycatting is a real threat anywhere. It's a risk that every inventor and business must take. Look at CD and DVD pirating. I'd shoot for a US patent, develop it here, assemble a prototype maybe, market it on the internet or in the west. The Chinese, Taiwanese, Thais and many others pirate ideas. It's not an Asian business tacktic... I believe we westerners have done our share of pirating as well.

Good luck!

[dvk1951]

Wes T., I don't see your idea as far fetched since no one has a crystal ball to predict what the public will take a liking to but would suggest that you think about initial marketing in a aree of the globe that would offer a bit more copyright protection.

Altho Simon43 is a bit too pessimistic for me, he does make a few valid points and that is that without knowing the lay of the land, you would be hard pressed to successfully market here in LOS. However I would not discount the idea of the manufacturing aspect in Thailand after proper research and education.

The idea of a rescue vehicle has potential in the western world as I know that jet ski's are already being used as rescue vehicles. Think oceans, lakes and beaches.

Best of luck on the venture, keep your eyes and ears open and learn to crawl before trying to run.

[Wes Turner]

Thanks for the help guys, I may put it on ice then if it's something I would have to leave Thailand to do properly, but I'm pleased I got such a positive response - this website is growing on me.

why does it need to be a side car, it would slow down the jet ski and alter its handling, why not attach an inflatable to the jet ski, with a gas bottle to instantly inflate it at the scene, after the jet ski has arrived having travelled at full speed with no extra drag and minimum extra weight, you can copy that idea if you like, if its any good

I had thought of that phuketsiam, not about the inflatable but about the handling. The carbon fibre design would be incredibly lightweight and streamlined, I even thought of having one either side which is a possibility, but an instant yellow inflatable is also a good idea, or orange would be the proper color for an emergency craft but either way I'll split the profits with you should it ever take off, but I doubt it will happen.

The idea of a rescue vehicle has potential in the western world as I know that jet ski's are already being used as rescue vehicles. Think oceans, lakes and beaches.

Now that I didn't know, if that is how it is then it looks like somebody has already stolen my initial idea.

Life goes on, thanks again for the advice, is there anything these guys don't copy?

[Carmine6]

Thanks for the help guys, I may put it on ice then if it's something I would have to leave Thailand to do properly, but I'm pleased I got such a positive response - this website is growing on me.

why does it need to be a side car, it would slow down the jet ski and alter its handling, why not attach an inflatable to the jet ski, with a gas bottle to instantly inflate it at the scene, after the jet ski has arrived having travelled at full speed with no extra drag and minimum extra weight, you can copy that idea if you like, if its any good

I had thought of that phuketsiam, not about the inflatable but about the handling. The carbon fibre design would be incredibly lightweight and streamlined, I even thought of having one either side which is a possibility, but an instant yellow inflatable is also a good idea, or orange would be the proper color for an emergency craft but either way I'll split the profits with you should it ever take off, but I doubt it will happen.

The idea of a rescue vehicle has potential in the western world as I know that jet ski's are already being used as rescue vehicles. Think oceans, lakes and beaches.

Now that I didn't know, if that is how it is then it looks like somebody has already stolen my initial idea.

Life goes on, thanks again for the advice, is there anything these guys don't copy?

In Hawaii, and I'm pretty sure I've seen it elsewhere such as surfing competitions, the lifeguards use something like a big boogie board or foam pad attached to the back. Someone lies down on that and then sweeps/grabs the victim onto it. It's a hard attachment to the back, versus something like ropes, so it doesn't swing behind, it stays right behind. Probably little drag since it's ridding on top of the foamy water behind, but not exactly a smooth, dry ride. There are rope handles at the front and sides to grab onto.

I don't think a sidecar will work. No matter how light, the water drag will pull it to that side. You'd have to double side it.

Found some old pictures.

http://www.aloha.com/~lifeguards/wrunner.html

Edited January 20, 2006 by Carmine6

[spacebass]

Patent actions are very costly not really for the ordinary man (inventor) in the street.

Edited January 21, 2006 by spacebass

[Gazza]

Wes, the only thing that springs to mind about your idea is, what would happen if the sidecar jetski over-turned? Would the rescuee be strapped or harnessed into the sidecar?

Have you thought about patenting your idea and then presenting your idea to major companies?

That way, they may give you an initial sum to use your idea along with a percentage on every unit they produce using your patent. Also, then you won't have the headache of investing your own money into manufacturing and marketing the final product.

A friend from years ago patented a type of joint for use on bamboo furniture and had a furniture manufacturer interested in buying his idea along with a percentage on sales volume. I'd like to pick his brains for more info but have lost all contact with him.

Does anyone know which is the nearest country that has a patent office?

I got a few ideas myself kicking around in my head for gizmos that I'd like to register.

[Tywais]

Does anyone know which is the nearest country that has a patent office?

I got a few ideas myself kicking around in my head for gizmos that I'd like to register.

Thailand.

My boss sent me to a course in International & Thai Intellectual Property Rights Law a few years ago but will have to dig out my notes since I have yet had to apply it to our laboratory. In the meantime you can look through this.

http://www.boi.go.th/thai/how/patents_trad..._protection.asp

[steveromagnino]

Does anyone know which is the nearest country that has a patent office?

I got a few ideas myself kicking around in my head for gizmos that I'd like to register.

Thailand.

My boss sent me to a course in International & Thai Intellectual Property Rights Law a few years ago but will have to dig out my notes since I have yet had to apply it to our laboratory. In the meantime you can look through this.

http://www.boi.go.th/thai/how/patents_trad..._protection.asp

In many parts of the world, the marine industry has got by for years, not patenting everything under the sun, and instead lettind ideas stay in the public domain; great thinkers such as Herreshoff came up with ideas, and instead of patenting them, they let others copy while they continued to develop their ideas and stay ahead of the competition.

It is only more recently, that with canting keel technology that we've seen the more usual approach of patents and IP trying to protect things that are not really/should not really be patentable. For those interested in IP protection of an IMHO copied idea, check out CBTF technology, where they have taken 2 very old ideas (moving canting ballast, forward foil), combined them together and got a patent on it somehow, which they are trying to enforce on pretty much anyone designing boats.

I suspect you will be pushing something uphill to patent a sidecar on a jetski then enforce it here in Thailand or most parts of the world, as it is not particularly unique or different in application. If you could however come up with a special hinge that would prevent the jet ski being a deathtrap as it turns on the side car side, then you might be onto something, but the application of a sidecar in itself is not unique/novel and it does not differ substantially from previously publically available products.

As previously pointed out, the safety function of rescue is already performed using jetskis with a towed bed, which is IMHO more practical and cheaper without the safety risks of an asymetric craft with unnecessary width.

I think the recreational market might have some use for your sidecar idea, as people could lie on the wings, or maybe they could be spray dodgers or something; of course the craft would increase in weight, would be no more stable in the water, and would also be more unwieldy to move around.

For those pointing out the threat of copying; yes it happens here perhaps more than most places, but given the quantity of engineering required for structural carbon fibre production (molds, etc) I cannot see that there is the immediate threat of copying by mum/dad operations. With no IP protection, there is no reason for Bombadier, Yamaha etc to not make their own versions of your idea.

So, if you think this is a good idea, I would pitch it direct to the most progressive of the jet ski companies, and see how you go. IP could be expensive with little chance of being able to enforce if someone like Yamaha wanted to do the idea anyway.

The thing about patents is there is no such thing as a worldwide patent. If you want protection here, then you need to seek it here. If you want protection in 120+ countries that are signatories to the PCT then you can apply a single international application. You will still eventually need to file individual applications for each country however at a deferred date. That's about what I can remember from the IP stuff I studied a few years back....

[Tywais]

The thing about patents is there is no such thing as a worldwide patent. If you want protection here, then you need to seek it here. If you want protection in 120+ countries that are signatories to the PCT then you can apply a single international application. You will still eventually need to file individual applications for each country however at a deferred date. That's about what I can remember from the IP stuff I studied a few years back....

You just jogged my memory regarding PCT. Our instructor hinted that it would be easier applying with the PCT then the Thai IP office.

[steveromagnino]

You just jogged my memory regarding PCT. Our instructor hinted that it would be easier applying with the PCT then the Thai IP office.

Amazing how I can remember this from like 10 years ago, but cannot ever remember the words to any songs at all!

Studying patent law always seemed to me to be quite a great scam; convince someone who knows nothing about your idea of the legitimacy of it, then stop anyone else doing it without paying you off. Of course, then I started to realise that you also have to have deep pockets to be able to back yourself, and that's about when I realised that this isn't a good get rich quick scheme.

That's why I'm investing in this Nigerian bank deal at the moment; somehow I will get 20m dollars for letting them use my bank account for a while?! It will only cost me $5000!!

My favourite case in patent law; Burton threatens to sue all other snowboard manufacturers including Gnu/Libtech for infringing on their patented 3 hole binding mounting system patented in the early 90s. Gnu/Libtech point out that they were using the same system with slightly different measurements years earlier.....

- cost of filing the patent: thousands

- costs of threatening infringers: thousands

- value of showing prior examples of the patented idea - priceless

In the case of the jetski idea, I am not seeing a clear link of money to patent here; I can see it is possibly an executable idea (I cannot say it is a good idea, because I don't know enough about the jetski market to make that call) but it might be a little different but not novel enough to be enforceable (I think it would probably get a patent, but then prior work would show up, or if tested in court it would not hold up unless there is some clever moving joint in the sidecar which is not related to motorcycles or similar). Therefore I don't think that persuing patent protection would be worth it. Better to just develop the concept and pitch and sell it to Bombadier or Skidoo or someone.